FWD vs. RWD ???

[Imagine]

can eniwone tell me + and - for RWD and FWD cars :wave: bucause i'm used to driving FWD but when i better look at it i'm allways going to be slower in FWD then in RWD because weight transfer at the start-RWD :cool: have allwayas better start because rtheirs weight is all on the back so they can hawe better grip and start-i guess you understeand what i wont to say :D ......

@ imagine
-if you want a fair competition, use RWD-Cars and not the special tuned Saab from Ken :down: naw you made me to fell like a cheater and i HATE that :cry: -i know that Saab with KK ps. is faster but feel free to use it yourself :up: -is it walid for making times? :confused: -you know that i'm new to whole RWD stuff so you could join me on Finland5 with RWD :OMG: -pick a class :wave:btw-nice sig. ;) i think that i have dissatwantage here Wally ;)

[Pero_Grozni]

That' s hard one to explain. Can you reply if you want to know about real life or RT, becouse for real life i will again have to use scientific formulation. :OMG:

[Imagine]

lets start for RT for biggining and without sci. stuff ;)

[Pero_Grozni]

For that better replies will be the ones posted by guy's playing it more often then me.(I NEVER DRIVE FWD don't like it tooo easy).
I will tell you about RWD. I realy like them becouse of the FUNNN :twisted: :P :up: :trophy: factor driving them. Also i like demanding cars far more than easier cars -stratos, 037(TOO stiff suspension but still FUNNN). For the times factor RWD should be faster becouse you can drive them with the throtle(better at folloving lines), the transfer of power is positoned better(SCI STUFF) ;) especialy that is seen in alpine, stratos a little less and in the upcoming 911 :up: (can't wait).Therefore you transfer more power down-you get going faster.
A shame the whole thing is not properly moddeled, becouse now you are even faster than in reality. The negative side of RWD is the driver skills involed driving it and if the weight distribution is not good than the above mentioned pros go BYE BYE :wave: (ESCORT)

[Imagine]

@Wally-it's obvious that i can't get to your level with RWD because you are better but you can get downgraded to mines and use Gordini-join me at Sweden 1 or 4 :up: :wave:
@Pero_Grozni-it's not that fun if you cant go straight :cry: -it's frustraithing :mad:

[Pero_Grozni]

THAT'S THE FUN PARTO OF IT :up: :twisted:

[STim]

My opinion is that FWD cars is good to drive but easy and RWD keeps you very funny to drive(atlest online driving). Of course RWD is little bit difficultier than FWD but funny takes you going on...

[Imagine]

RWD keeps you very funny to drive(atlest online driving). Of course RWD is little bit difficultier than FWD but funny takes you going on...my english :rolleyes: -did you ment that my driving RWD cars is funny :confused:
i will be watching you clolsly :P

[STim]

No. I meant in my feeling it's much funnier (and offcourse challenging) to drive with RWD, cause you need to do much more steering movements than FWD.
OK. I have been driven FWD-cars more than year before I even dare to drive RWD-cars. And I buy this game since it born!


Edit: and BTW nice EYE!

[Imagine]

....offcourse challenging) to drive with RWD, cause you need to do much more steering movements than FWD.
OK. I have been driven FWD-cars more than year before I even dare to drive RWD-cars.

Edit: and BTW nice EYE! i dare to drive RWD after a mounth and i think i'm dooing a crappy job :mad: and i have a feeling that i need less stering input with RWD but that opposite side thing confuses me :(

[Sladden]

In real life FWD is the fastest way to go generally. Especially on faster stages where slides are unnecessery. The straightest line is always the fastest.. Today most of the new rallycars are FWD - The F2 cars (Renault Megane Maxi, Peugeot 306 Seat Ibiza) was sometimes quicker that the 4WD WRC cars on dry tarmac.

But in Rally Trophy the FWD cars are crappy in comparison with the best RWD because of the engines lacking power.
But Ive seen some really good stage times with your Lancia Imagine :up:
In some places like Swiz its nearly impossible to control the best RWD cars---since there are no room for slides between the mountains. Then its better to just steer and accellerate throu the corners.
IF the FWD cars where equal on power they would be wery hard to beat! :D

[Midi]

RWD:

+ You can control both nose and tail(with steering nose and with accelerator tail).

+ It's much more enjoyable to drive on long slides etc. :twisted:

- Hmm i don't find any bad things, except that if you can't control your accelerator you can't drive with RWD ;)

FWD:

+ It's easier to drive.

-/+ You can control only nose of the car with steering/accelerator but you don't have to control tail. Because it will follow nicely where the nose is going :)

- I hate driving rally with FWD because a) it's too easy b) you can't go in slide to corners=boring

- My opinion is that you CAN'T drive a rally with FWD ;)

Well this is my opinion... FWD cars sucks in rally :)

[edit2]And.. i don't know am i fast or slow(i think slow) with RWD but it's fun to drive.

[edit3]Hmm and that Fiat 600 pic i posted to crash pictures thread tells more than thousand words :twisted:

[Imagine]

But in Rally Trophy the FWD cars are crappy in comparison with the best RWD because of the engines lacking power.i hate it becouse engine lacks on power :mad:
But Ive seen some really good stage times with your Lancia Imagine :up:
In some places like Swiz its nearly impossible to control the best RWD cars---since there are no room for slides between the mountains. Then its better to just steer and accellerate throu the corners.
IF the FWD cars where equal on power they would be wery hard to beat! :D :o only 2 "good" times-Switzerland 2 & 6 ;)

[Imagine]

Thx,Midi :up: i have finally got that i was asking for :trophy:
RWD:

+ You can control both nose and tail(with steering nose and with accelerator tail).

+ It's much more enjoyable to drive on long slides etc. :twisted:

- Hmm i don't find any bad things, except that if you can't control your accelerator you can't drive with RWD ;)
this is true ;) -i can't controll accelerator but still i drive some RWD-s
but when i look at it i can drive them only becouse they lack on power so they are sutable for my Non Sliding driving style :( becouse i can drive them with Full trottle :D -Volvo and Cortina
but stratos and Escort-No way :cry: like that Healey-i can drive it but not fast even on some easy stage like that Kenya 2 stage becouse he will allways get me sideways :mad: and i can't controll that so there is no way that i'm gonna beat tjth :wave: -maybe i would if i get it perfict but even when i take 1s off someware i allways s*** up someware becouse sliding,it so sensitive-too much or too little :wc: trottle will get you to spin :banghead:


FWD:

+ It's easier to drive.

-/+ You can control only nose of the car with steering/accelerator but you don't have to control tail. Because it will follow nicely where the nose is going :)

- I hate driving rally with FWD because a) it's too easy b) you can't go in slide to corners=boring

- My opinion is that you CAN'T drive a rally with FWD ;)

Well this is my opinion... FWD cars sucks in rally :)

[edit2]And.. i don't know am i fast or slow(i think slow) with RWD but it's fun to drive.


looking at your Swirtzerland 2 replay you are not slow at all :smash: compeared to me ;)
i dont like it but i need to agree that in Real life FWD-s can't be used in rally,RT is another thing :chair:

maybe is too boring becouse you cant drive them with sliding but slides only cost you time :unf: and in time that you need to control it i will in FWD be long gone :D ;) :twisted:

[Midi]

i dont like it but i need to agree that in Real life FWD-s can't be used in rally,RT is another thing :chair:


Yep, exactly what i ment.

[John_Schoen]

I disagree. We'll see what happens when the realistic physics are ready; I expect that the Fulvia will be able to beat some RWD cars on some stages. There is a time and a place for FWD cars, their handling characteristics just require a different driving style than RWD cars. :)

[Roger]

Answer for the sake of answering...anything that needs saying is already posted:

FWD

Real Life
+ Idiot proof easy to go fairly quick
- Hard to be truly fast, takes some special skills to get thing turned
- The basic format exists to help packaging shopping cars - do you REALLY want to race a shopping trolley? :P ;) (Roger - now takes cover from anyone who loves his classic FWD car! :dood: )
RT
As above, but possibly because there are not too many traction critical corners in RT the disadvantages may not as big as in real life. I expect that changes with the TyreTeam's work :trophy:

RWD
+ Due to dynamic weight transfer, you can put more power through the driven wheels an any situation - therefore will accelerate faster
+ Adjustable with throttle, much more than FWD - you can make the car do almost anything
+ In real life the steering feel is better as torque steer through the driven wheels does not exist
+ You can impress small boys with power-slides (ask my son :) )

- RWD cars tend towards a rearward weight distibution to get the fat over the driven wheels, this means they are more likely to over-steer on a neutral throttle (NOTE: this can often be cancelled out by USING the throttle ;) - so it's not a big negative)

Just ask yourself the question - why does almost every truly fast & powerful car have RWD (I don't like the idea of AWD - except in LandRovers, it takes too much electronic trickery to make it behave properly - it's heavy, soaks power and probably not required in almost all situations.)

[Pero_Grozni]

Well i allredy posted my answer and as said RWD is faster if the car has right weight distribution for it. The thing is that all FWD cars havce the engine on the drive axis and therefore have more weight on the wheels-more traction. With a RWD car many more options exist and if the car is made correctly it is allready faster(same power, weight, tyres) with a front engine.
The reasons for FWD cars wining those events- they had almost the same power that 4WD cars, were much lighter, wider and they were especially developed for those events(the citroen xsara kit car).
But the 4WD allways have an advantage-except they often weigh more(more drivetrain components) and more power is lost trough the drivetrain. Of course a 4WD sistem must be more sophisticated than just three unlocked diff's but the Integrale had no electronics to control the diff's and it is ultra fast and responds very well to stearing input(drove one :up: :trophy: :twisted: )

Cheers PG :P

[Midi]

I disagree. We'll see what happens when the realistic physics are ready; I expect that the Fulvia will be able to beat some RWD cars on some stages. There is a time and a place for FWD cars, their handling characteristics just require a different driving style than RWD cars. :)

I men't only that FWD car isn't a "real rally car" :)

[RTS013]

I just must say a few words about this... :arrow:

FWD and RWD are driven very different.

A RWD-car needs to be prepared for the turn before you enter it, you have to slow down, get into a gently slide and then power through the turn, correcting the amount of throttle and steering all the way. If you give it too much throttle it will spin :headspin: , and if you give it to little the car will stop sliding and you will loose speed :rolleyes: . Also if you are in a slide and lift of the throttle you can go wide as there is no longer any power trying to push the car towards the center of the turn...

The FWD is different. You kind of solve the difficulties when already in the turn. Of course you have to slow down a bit before you enter it but not in the same way as the RWD. Once you entered the turn all you need to do is give it full throttle and steer as much as necessary. If you can't steer enough and end up under steering :OMG: you can left-foot-brake :up: , this will get the rear end sliding out and causing the car to over steer, you will loose a little speed too and that will help you holding the car on the road.

Now, one thing not represented in RT is tire ware :( . In real life that is very important. A RWD car will have a better balance as both front and rear tires are worn out. Rear will take punish from spinning :roflmao: in slides and front from taking the side forces when steering. The FWD car will have almost all tire ware at the front, because they both power and steer the car! The rear also has less weight on them as FWD cars have generally much more weight on the front than on the rear. Now, the of course all tires are worn out on both kind of cars, it's only a matter of time.

As Sladden said, the modern F2 cars (actually not so common any more... Super1600 took over) was actually faster than the WRCars on dry tarmac some times. This was in 1999 when Philippe Bugalski won :trophy: Rally Catalunya and Tour the Corse in a Citroen Xsara Kit Kar :woohoo: . Not so strange actually, they are just like touring cars, light (950kg) and very powerful (280ghp). The WRCars at that time had about 330bhp and a weight of 1230kg. This means the F2 cars had a power to weight ratio of 3.43kg/bhp and the WRCars 3.72kg/bhp. On dry tarmac, when the fastest way around always is without sliding, it's no wonder why the F2 was fastest... :rolleyes:

I think why most modern rally cars are FWD is because there are not many modern road cars with RWD. There simply is no choice when making a new rally car, it’s either FWD or 4WD, witch is MUCH more expensive. Sure I like to slide around with RWD, that’s very fun! But modern rally is about NOT sliding. Watch a group-B monster in action :twisted: , or even a group-A of the 90ies :eek: , and then compare with the WRCars of today :cool: and you will see a huge difference. The WRCars are actually set up to prevent sliding and many of the top drivers got a driving style that is under steering into the turns then go for the power and go just on the limit so there is a very gently slide all the way to the exit. This has proven to be the fastest…


Now, go :drive: in the car you think suits you best!

[Imagine]

one possible "test" :smash:
can enwone do it :confused:
can it be measured :smash: -acceleration of the same car 0-100km/h with
Alfa :twisted:
RWD & FWD :rolleyes:
or can someone try to hotlap Switzerland 6 stage with RWD & FWD alfa
.....i know that its a strange idea but PLEASE