32bit vs 64bit

[gb racing]

Hi all, well i have now got some extra ram off a mate and i was wondering how to go about using it.

I run vista /xp 32bit atm and that only detects 3.5gb or something, but i have 4gb in the system atm. Does 32bit o/s still use the extra 512mb ram even if 32bit o/s cant see it or is it really not using it at all?

So if i switch to 64bit o/s will i see a good difference from 4gb to 8gb or is this al just a waste of memory

Many thanks :thumbup:

[yetisaj]

If you have a 32bit OS dont bother using any more than 4Gb of Ram, If you want to increase your memory, get a 64bit OS.

[AndrewJ]

Depends what you are talking about.
For any sim 3.5GB is more then enough ........literally
8GB will do zilch for sims

[AndrewJ]

If you have a 32bit OS dont bother using any more than 4Gb of Ram, If you want to increase your memory, get a 64bit OS.

Thats guff

Sims run as fast in 3.5GB 32bit as 4GB 64Bit any day of the week

[gb racing]

If you have a 32bit OS dont bother using any more than 4Gb of Ram, If you want to increase your memory, get a 64bit OS.


Hi yetisaj, thanks, but will the 32bit os still not use the extra memory if it needs it even though it only shows 3.5gb? al have to get a 64bit os then if that is the case :crying:

[gb racing]

Thats guff

Sims run as fast in 3.5GB 32bit as 4GB 64Bit any day of the week


But what about other games like memory hog games like armed assault for example , that would use a lot of memory at some stages , If 32bit still uses it but doesnt show as using it, al be happy with that :thumbup:

[Butch Nackley]

I run vista /xp 32bit atm and that only detects 3.5gb or something, but i have 4gb in the system atm. Does 32bit o/s still use the extra 512mb ram even if 32bit o/s cant see it or is it really not using it at all?

So if i switch to 64bit o/s will i see a good difference from 4gb to 8gb or is this al just a waste of memory

Hi

Yes, your 32bit OS is using the ram you have. You don't see it all because of the 32bit address. It is limited to 4G, some of that is used for I/O devices, graphics card, etc. That's the amount that seems missing.

Going to a 64bit OS and using 8GB of ram will only be of a benefit if you are using some really ram hungry programs. Video editing, powerful CAD programs, etc. or running several 'heavy' programs at once. Unless you do this type work with your PC, I would say 4GB is fine.
I have 8GB and it's been over 4GB only a couple times that I am aware of.

For games, 4GB is normally enough for anything out right now, though I expect to see more and more new games use it if it's there in the near future. There are some now out that will use more, if you have it. I can load up close to 4gb of ram using Flight Simulator X and maybe even over 4 GB if using some add-ons in certain places in the game world. I have never 'caught' rFactor using more than 1-1.2GB, but I haven't ever tried with a really big grid of say 60 cars. Normally no more than 10-15 cars racing online.

I have not sit down and checked exactly how much each program is using, but a quick glimps at Core Temp nearly always shows use of under 4GB and really closer to only 3GB total being used for most things.

With Windows 7 coming out pretty soon now, I would just wait until then to get a 64bit OS. I got Vista Ultimate x64 only because it was too good of a deal to pass up when I got it. It was part of a combo deal and it cost me $99. I figured it was worth that. 64bit is superior to 32bit in every way, but not really necessary right now. That of course is changing fast, as most everything coming out is coded to take advantage of 64bit. Everything will run better in 64bit, because it'll be designed to work better in that invironment.

Hope this helps :)

[AndrewJ]

But what about other games like memory hog games like armed assault for example , that would use a lot of memory at some stages , If 32bit still uses it but doesnt show as using it, al be happy with that :thumbup:

Hope I didnt sound like XP32bit fanboy :-P
I have both.

Yes thats true
"Depends what you are talking about".

Even still shooters 3.5GB vs 4GB you would gain less then I do not running netframe :mrgreen:

6GB 8GB I would say yes you see difference in some shooters, how much
I dont know, certainly not bang for buck .

However if we talking CAD, premiere, Vegas, soundforge, acid things like this
I recommend a 64Bit OS and as much ram as you can afford. ( thats why I run both OS to keep sim hardrive XP SP2 as clean as possible and let Vista/W7 64bit take care of the rest ) :thumbup:

[exilledweegie]

32 bit os can only see and use 4gb maximum and thats taking into account graphics ram too,if you have 4gb system ram and a 512mb graphics card then your system will only see and use 3.5gb,its a 32 bit limitation,with 64bit the limits are much higher something like 128gb system ram can be used.

[flipteg]

i didn't really see any improvement going from Vista 32 to 64... the only reason i even changed in the first place is because i upgraded RAM from 2GB to 4GB...

[Viper]

I think Tom's hardware did an article on the whole 32 vs 64 a little while back.
The very short conclusion was that it's pretty much a waste of time for the currently running games.

[Sidewinder16]

32-bit has a few limitations you have to be very aware of. Any application under 32-bit windows is hard limited to 2GB of memory use. Try to make an app use more and it will crash no questions asked. 64-bit windows and applications will have a much higher limit. Secondly that 3.5GB of memory you are seeing is all that windows can use. This is because all the devices in your system are mapped onto portions of memory so the CPU can transfer data to and from those devices. It ranges from 500-700MB in size and its memory you cannot use. In 64-bit windows this will occupy a range outside your main memory meaning you can use all 4GB.

All in all I would suggest you go 64-bit because when the first games come out that regularly require more than 2GB of memory to just run you will be forced to upgrade to 64-bit anyway. Take the hassle now and you won't need to later.

PS: I've been running 64-bit vista and linux since the beginning of 2006 so i'm pretty happy with it.

[gb racing]

Many thanks to all you guys :thumbup: I will stick with 32bit then as it still uses the ram even if it is not seen , I did notice though on xp,it dont see 4gb at all but in vista 32bit it shows up the full 4gb hmm

[AndrewJ]

Many thanks to all you guys :thumbup: I will stick with 32bit then as it still uses the ram even if it is not seen , I did notice though on xp,it dont see 4gb at all but in vista 32bit it shows up the full 4gb hmm

32Bit and 4GB

Open a memory manager then multitask till you cant multitask anymore, you have a strong CPU, encode decode burn watch a movie avcheck internet open as much as you can , now start rFactor after it boots ( will invariably take much longer ) start a race then alt tab back to desktop

Check your ram usage :laugh:

No sweat :thumbup:

[gb racing]

32Bit and 4GB

Open a memory manager then multitask till you cant multitask anymore, you have a strong CPU, encode decode burn watch a movie avcheck internet open as much as you can , now start rFactor after it boots ( will invariably take much longer ) start a race then alt tab back to desktop

Check your ram usage :laugh:

No sweat :thumbup:

heh ok al try that :thumbup: but if i min to desktop she will drop usage straight away so al ney see the max mem ,hmm, idk al give er a whirl anymoos :)

[gears]

Many thanks to all you guys :thumbup: I will stick with 32bit then as it still uses the ram even if it is not seen , I did notice though on xp,it dont see 4gb at all but in vista 32bit it shows up the full 4gb hmm

That was changed after SP1. It's not using all 4gb, just showing you have it installed. It's using the same amount of RAM as XP - about 3gb.

Open your task manager and you'll see your available RAM.

The 4gb limit includes video RAM. So if you have a 512mb video card, you should have about 3.25gb system RAM.

If you have a 1gb video card, you'll have 3gb system RAM.

But here's where SLI sucks for 32-bit:

If you have two 1gb video cards in SLI, you will only have 2gb system RAM available even if you installed 4gb.

The 4gb limit includes video RAM.

So the more video RAM you get, the less system RAM you have available (assuming you have 4gb installed).

Most people do not know this.

While this may not affect your system, it's something to think about when you upgrade.

[redi]

Are you sure about the 2x1GB video memory leaving you with 2GB system memory? Because in a Crossfire set-up, video RAM is mirrorred between the two cards so it's still 1GB effective video memory.

[AndrewJ]

heh ok al try that :thumbup: but if i min to desktop she will drop usage straight away so al ney see the max mem ,hmm, idk al give er a whirl anymoos :)

Too much running too list alt tab rfactor race 3 times awesome fps ......
only way i can get my PC to stutter in sims anyways ... hehehe

OCCT is the biggest hog wants to own CPU lol ;)

[David Wright]

Tom's hardware did some tests and for 4GB of memory they concluded there is no point in getting a 64 bit OS.

[redi]

Tom's hardware did some tests and for 4GB of memory they concluded there is no point in getting a 64 bit OS.

I guess that applies to when playing games? I can image when doing huge video editing projects that it can make a difference.

[yetisaj]

Depends what you are talking about.
For any sim 3.5GB is more then enough ........literally
8GB will do zilch for sims

You say that, but id like to see you get 60 fps at the resolution im using on a tripple screen setup with 4GB ram. If I overclock my CPU more Its even faster but 3.4Ghz is stable for my cpu, even though it bottlenecks a little. And as for running First person games, crysis is incredible on tripple screen and runs full on Dx9 settings with the Dx10 graphics updates. Maybe it wont make a huge difference with GTR2, but Rfactor 2 will utilise the technology better, and you will see a much greater performance increase then.

Its wether you want to prepare for future programmes or not.

I cant complain at all, I do alot of serious 3d architectural modelling and rendering and my setup has never let me down. Apart from the Nvidia Quaddro that i use at work....those things are beasts.

[Mogget]

Thats guff

Sims run as fast in 3.5GB 32bit as 4GB 64Bit any day of the week

That isn't what he meant. He was saying that getting anything beyond 4GB RAM would be a waste of money with a 32bit OS, because it won't be able to use it.

[gears]

Are you sure about the 2x1GB video memory leaving you with 2GB system memory?

Yes, I'm sure. Google it :-) ;-)

[AndrewJ]

That isn't what he meant. He was saying that getting anything beyond 4GB RAM would be a waste of money with a 32bit OS, because it won't be able to use it.

Funny a few years back when people upped from 2 to 4GB thats the exact reason they gave for swapping to 64Bit OS :laugh:

my point was 3.5Gb or 6GB-8GB whatever OS it runs in will make little difference to all current sims

I think that answers his main question, if he is happy with 32bit leave it as is.

I should not be that naive and assume he is talking about sim performance in a sim forum.

[yetisaj]

That isn't what he meant. He was saying that getting anything beyond 4GB RAM would be a waste of money with a 32bit OS, because it won't be able to use it.

Exactly, I was saying that if you have a 32bit OS, theres no point in having more than 4GB Ram because your system will not use it. But if you do want to increase your Ram to greater than 4GB then you need a 64bit OS to utilise it properly.

[Mogget]

I should not be that naive and assume he is talking about sim performance in a sim forum.

No, you shouldn't ;-)

[AndrewJ]

hehe :-)

I forget there is more important things then Oran Park and Legends Car :crying:

[AndrewJ]

Are you sure about the 2x1GB video memory leaving you with 2GB system memory? Because in a Crossfire set-up, video RAM is mirrorred between the two cards so it's still 1GB effective video memory.

yer I pretty sure thats more guff.

windows allocates the ram that way yes but can use it how it sees fit
when needed.

[AndrewJ]

You say that, but id like to see you get 60 fps at the resolution im using on a tripple screen setup with 4GB ram. If I overclock my CPU more Its even faster but 3.4Ghz is stable for my cpu, even though it bottlenecks a little. And as for running First person games, crysis is incredible on tripple screen and runs full on Dx9 settings with the Dx10 graphics updates. Maybe it wont make a huge difference with GTR2, but Rfactor 2 will utilise the technology better, and you will see a much greater performance increase then.

Its wether you want to prepare for future programmes or not.

I cant complain at all, I do alot of serious 3d architectural modelling and rendering and my setup has never let me down. Apart from the Nvidia Quaddro that i use at work....those things are beasts.

I dont know where you are coming from sorry :-)
I have no experience in tri-screen
Are you saying i cant run triscreen with 4GB of ram ?
My CPU 940BE is stronger then yours.so if i had same cards ......
I abit confused :?:

and yes i agree 101% depends what you run I did say that if you into CAD
etc etc ..heavy encoding 64bit as much ram as possible.

imo

32Bit XP 2Gb ram is fine for all sims .....with single screen then
32Bit Vista better with 3-4GB

Obviously all 64Bit 4GB plus

But thats no reason you cant run a i7core in Vista/windows 7 64Bit with only 3GB ram
...or with 2-4Gb of ram in 32bit XP

:)

[yetisaj]

Im not saying that you can't do it, Im saying that if you run GTR2 at a resolution of 5128x1152 then having 8GB of ram over 4GB will make a difference to your framerate, believe me, Ive done it.

4GB is fine for GTR2, I never said it wasn't, but at the resolution I use I have a massive gain in framerate with 8GB of ram, providing my CPU doesnt bottleneck the processing. All I'm saying is that you will always see a performance increase if you add more ram. As you said, it may not be as much as you think but it will make a difference.

Also the question wasn't only about performance in GTR2, I was talking about performance overall, OS, work, other games are all affected and the new programs that are being released will all make better use of the hardware in your system.

All I was saying is that overall; If you use 8GB ram, you will see a performance increase (maybe only a little, depending on the speed of your processor) and you will also be better equiped for future programs, but in order to do this you need a 64bit OS. Surely you can agree with that?

[gb racing]

That was changed after SP1. It's not using all 4gb, just showing you have it installed. It's using the same amount of RAM as XP - about 3gb.

Open your task manager and you'll see your available RAM.

The 4gb limit includes video RAM. So if you have a 512mb video card, you should have about 3.25gb system RAM.

If you have a 1gb video card, you'll have 3gb system RAM.

But here's where SLI sucks for 32-bit:

If you have two 1gb video cards in SLI, you will only have 2gb system RAM available even if you installed 4gb.

The 4gb limit includes video RAM.

So the more video RAM you get, the less system RAM you have available (assuming you have 4gb installed).

Most people do not know this.

While this may not affect your system, it's something to think about when you upgrade.


Your right man, geez thats crazy, u sure though it will not use the left over ram but? I always wondered why most have 2gb ram in there machines, i guess thats why they do that :thumbup: so 2gb ram and say 512 or 1gb on the gfx card then to make up the rest

[gb racing]

Too much running too list alt tab rfactor race 3 times awesome fps ......
only way i can get my PC to stutter in sims anyways ... hehehe

OCCT is the biggest hog wants to own CPU lol ;)


LOL that is some multi tasking there :laugh::thumbup:

I havnt much installed yet to test the ram to its max just few games but when i min to taskbar the mem usage drops ,cant figure out how to keep full usage and still be able to work a screenshot hmm

al try that OCCT here and run a game or something maybe get convertx2dvd or something running :laugh:

cheers for OCCT looks good proggy :thumbup:

[gb racing]

32-bit has a few limitations you have to be very aware of. Any application under 32-bit windows is hard limited to 2GB of memory use. Try to make an app use more and it will crash no questions asked. 64-bit windows and applications will have a much higher limit. Secondly that 3.5GB of memory you are seeing is all that windows can use. This is because all the devices in your system are mapped onto portions of memory so the CPU can transfer data to and from those devices. It ranges from 500-700MB in size and its memory you cannot use. In 64-bit windows this will occupy a range outside your main memory meaning you can use all 4GB.

All in all I would suggest you go 64-bit because when the first games come out that regularly require more than 2GB of memory to just run you will be forced to upgrade to 64-bit anyway. Take the hassle now and you won't need to later.

PS: I've been running 64-bit vista and linux since the beginning of 2006 so i'm pretty happy with it.


ahh man i was just about to settle with a 32bit o/s now i read your post :ohmy: I will just have to get a 64bit o/s and try out 8gb on that vs my current config but yeah as few guys said sim wont use really much of 8gb unless am using some kinda cad program etc, but still having 8gb would be nice :thumbup:

[Butch Nackley]

Hi again

What Sidewinder is saying is correct,,, but you are safe to wait for Windows 7 before you get a 64bit OS. There will not be any games coming out between now and Win7 release that require a 64bit OS to run.

Now, I have no proof of that, call it an uneducated guess. But I really can't see any game devs shooting themselves in the wallet by making a game that will not run on a 32 bit OS with 4gb of ram. Far more people have 32 than 64.

[gb racing]

Hi again

What Sidewinder is saying is correct,,, but you are safe to wait for Windows 7 before you get a 64bit OS. There will not be any games coming out between now and Win7 release that require a 64bit OS to run.

Now, I have no proof of that, call it an uneducated guess. But I really can't see any game devs shooting themselves in the wallet by making a game that will not run on a 32 bit OS with 4gb of ram. Far more people have 32 than 64.

Thanks Butch :thumbup: i guess that is good point too though, never thought about that, and when windows 7 does come out, jump to that on 64bit and then maybe the next game that comesout may be multicore support too, so that would all fit into place

regards

[AndrewJ]

Quad SLI and Hybrid SLI Ultimate Gaming PC Configuration: Two GeForce 9800 GX2
Intel Core2 Extreme (quad –core) QX6850 3.0 GHz
NVIDIA nForce 780 SLI motherboard supporting Hybrid SLI Technology with 2GB system memory

3-way SLI Ultimate Gaming PC Configuration:
Three GeForce GTX 280 or 260 GPUs
Intel Core2 Extreme (quad –core) QX9770
NVIDIA nForce 790 SLI motherboard with 2GB system memory

Extreme SLI PC Configuration:
Dual GeForce 8800 Ultra, Dual GeForce 8800 GTX, Dual GeForce 8800 GTS or Dual GeForce 7950GX2
AMD Athlon 64 FX-62 2.8GHz (AM2) or Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 2.9GHz
NVIDIA nForce 680 SLI or NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI motherboard with 2GB system memory





From what you say some of these should not even boot.

:?:

[AndrewJ]

LOL that is some multi tasking there :laugh::thumbup:


Beep put me on to OCCT well i was surprised it never crashed the encoding decoding burning full av scan OCCT tuneup, downloads all finished, I ended up alt tabbing rfactor a dozen times.

On a note I cant do anything like that in vista or W7 they just fall over

4Gb is not a waste in 32Bit XP for me cause I use 64bit OS as well

I have extensively tested 32bit/64bit all OS all sims with 4GB buggered if I can see any difference apart from sims run faster smoother more compat. in 32Bit XP The closest I found so far with performance is W7 64Bit thats my honest opinion.


Im not saying that you can't do it, Im saying that if you run GTR2 at a resolution of 5128x1152 then having 8GB of ram over 4GB will make a difference to your framerate, believe me, Ive done it.

4GB is fine for GTR2, I never said it wasn't, but at the resolution I use I have a massive gain in framerate with 8GB of ram, providing my CPU doesnt bottleneck the processing. All I'm saying is that you will always see a performance increase if you add more ram. As you said, it may not be as much as you think but it will make a difference.

Also the question wasn't only about performance in GTR2, I was talking about performance overall, OS, work, other games are all affected and the new programs that are being released will all make better use of the hardware in your system.

All I was saying is that overall; If you use 8GB ram, you will see a performance increase (maybe only a little, depending on the speed of your processor) and you will also be better equiped for future programs, but in order to do this you need a 64bit OS. Surely you can agree with that?

I agree ! Sorry !

lol :)

I was being honest actually asking could I run tri-screen with 4GB
I was not aware tri-screen used this much memory
Okay I understand now 3 screens high res more memory still I wonder and be interested where it all goes are you sure its physical you have run logs....I dont doubt you.

[gb racing]

al sticky to the 32bit for now and store that other 4gb in a safe place until i get me hands on full release of W7 64bit :thumbup:

That OCCT IS real nice proggy thanks beep and thanks andy :thumbup:


Thank you all for adding some info to the thread has really cleared my view up about this issue :thumbup:

It has turned out to be a good thread too ,for future reference and for anyone looking through the internet with same questions. I did this to start off with and most threads on forums go off into one and end up you dont get any good info, so now anyone indexing will hopefully come by this one :thumbup: and maybe join nogrip and buy a sim racing game too :thumbup:

[AndrewJ]

I own 2 versions of 32bit XP and 32bitVista ( dog) :mrgreen:
32bit/64bit W7 patched lol
64bit XP I borrowed off a mate runs Vista never really ran this
so I thought quad core 4GB was time to try it showed me nothing
Borrowed 64Bit vista as well and W7 64bit just kicks it

So I down to XP-SP2 32Bit for sims and W7 64Bit for the rest oh and Ubuntu :mrgreen:

[gb racing]

I own 2 versions of 32bit XP and 32bitVista ( dog) :mrgreen:
32bit/64bit W7 patched lol
64bit XP I borrowed off a mate runs Vista never really ran this
so I thought quad core 4GB was time to try it showed me nothing
Borrowed 64Bit vista as well and W7 64bit just kicks it

So I down to XP-SP2 32Bit for sims and W7 64Bit for the rest oh and Ubuntu :mrgreen:


:laugh::thumbup: so W7 kicks vista , i cant wait for full release of that :-D I read on toms hardaware ontime that XP has 36% increase over vista for gaming i hope W7 has same if not double that over vista. but i tried W7 beta and must say its real nice, but i felt it was just vista on a diet, same kernal in all that. so really u could make vista the same as w7 by reducing its bulk junk heh

as far as linus and such o/s goes, i have not one clue how to run that :laugh: or even install it

[AndrewJ]

Yes about time Nvidia coughed up another driver. :mrgreen:

Really i just like the simplicity of XP normally one menu level deep you do what you want.

I think why Bill made W7 menus more convoluted even then Vista is to brainwash average Joe not to change anything. :laugh:

[gb racing]

Yes about time Nvidia coughed up another driver. :mrgreen:

Really i just like the simplicity of XP normally one menu level deep you do what you want.

I think why Bill made W7 menus more convoluted even then Vista is to brainwash average Joe not to change anything. :laugh:


:laugh: True u can do what ye like in xp hehe, without ownership in vista yer screwed heh

[AndrewJ]

Well like I said years back people jumped to 64Bit with 4GB and thumbed noses at 32bit user with 4GB because it was a waste.

Sure in 64Bit vista-W7 I have 500+mb more ram available

Opps Vista and W7 use 400+mb more then XP :-P

:laugh:

Also annoying to me I dont know where fps goes in sims when I use Vista-W7
even with 940BE I still notice difference and you cant tell me a extra 4Gb of ram will help my system ( single card, single 22" )

Is there any reason in 3dMark I get CPU Score

32Bit XP - 4500+ - 14,800
32bit / 64Bit Vista - 4000+ - 13,900
32Bit/64Bit Windows7 - 4100+ - 14,000

[BeepBeep2]

My PC could be getting 12-13k in XP right now by those numbers.

[AndrewJ]

My PC could be getting 12-13k in XP right now by those numbers.

Well I just get smoother better framerate in XP, I did say i tried SP3 recently and it was as fast I was wrong after a day it turned a bit sluggy it had everything loaded and 3dmarks dropped 2-3% when it was online ( i always do tests at normal usage and turn off nothing ) I have done the tests enough years to know its not variables in running processes

I am not trying to imply I get 5% better Marks because of 10% better CPU score ..... just wondering why the anonomly.
:-)

edit: Getting 14.700-14.800 default cpu/gpu XP
600-700marks drop is a whack and 182.50 Vista driver as good as it will get
I dont think W7 driver is sloww either and the extra 512mb ram does nadda