F1 Fuji - GP of Japan

[Wee Scot]

Well, here we go! The teams have arrived in Japan and get ready to started learning a new track. What do the top competitors say about that? Have they used racing sims to familiarize themselves with the layout? (Thanks to Autosport.com)

Lewis Hamilton:

Despite the significance of Sunday's Japanese Grand Prix, Hamilton insisted he had not even familiarised himself with the new-look Fuji layout on a computer game.

"I haven't - but my brother's been round it on the PlayStation," he said, smiling.

Kimi Raikkonen:

The Finn admitted Fuji will be a mystery for him, as he has not even driven around the track in a simulator.

"I know that some drivers prepared themselves for this race using simulators, but to be honest, that's something I don't like: I've never played with a Playstation, never used simulators and I think that my performance did not suffer at all."

And here's something that may surprise Fernando. Lewis has stolen a "diplomatic initiative" march on him in the press!

Lewis Hamilton intends to sit down with Fernando Alonso in Fuji this weekend to try and agree on a code of conduct about their on-track battles.

The Briton is still upset about the way he felt Alonso was unnecessarily aggressive with him at the first corner of the Belgian Grand Prix.

And having not had a chance to speak to Alonso about the matter up until now, he wants to make sure their battle does not result in any on-track incident.

Hamilton said: "For both of us, we have got to be careful and remember that we are teammates. I probably will speak to him later in the weekend about this, because I haven't spoken to him since the last race and I have my feelings on what happened at the last race."

When asked what impact the first corner incident at Spa would have on the fight with Alonso, Hamilton said: "Well, we will see. I will be a lot more aware of him around me now. You wait and see.

"I am driving to keep the car on the track and be fair to everyone, but if that is how aggressive he wants to be then I can be just as aggressive as anyone else.

"But I am not going to take any silly risks and take myself or anyone else off - just make sure I am ahead of them and it won't be an issue."

Cool as a cucumber (?) :D

[Reppu]

I don't think FA gives a damn about LH feelings, at this point. It's clear that FA will take all risks necessary to be ahead of LH, because i think that to his eyes is LH who has something to loose and not him. I just hope he is aggresive but don't ruin anyone's race. Spa action is just about the limit of what i would consider acceptable.

[Revvin]

Its going to be an interesting race, none of the drivers really know the circuit so it may throw up some surprising results. I wonder if the BMW pair will gate crash the party.

As for the Spa incident, I very much doubt Alonso would have seen it as fair if the roles had been reveresed and you can bet your bottom dollar ron Dennis would have made protests to the race officials if it had been a Ferrari making that move on one of his cars. Lets see if Hamilton is equally as forceful if he gets in front of Alonso. He certainly seems up for a battle which is going to be good for us the viewers.

[washington96]

I think FA has a lot to lose. They take each other off this weekend, then it 2 points to LH with just two races left. Meanwhile Kimi and co joining the party for the Championship.

That wouldn't be a good move for him would it? He's got to keep with LH, but he doesn't want Kimi gaining ten points from one weekend.

If he wants to win this years championship then he will have to keep a level head and play this out til the end. If he doesn't and does something stupid then he will lose what little respect he has left with all but his most hardcore fans.

Lets just hope that it's a great race. This being a new circuit should make it interesting!

[lowndes888]

I think this might be the only track where modern F1's can really pass, because of the huge wide straight:D

I'm hoping for another podium by one of the Saubers:)

[Wee Scot]

I think FA has a lot to lose. They take each other off this weekend, then it 2 points to LH with just two races left. Meanwhile Kimi and co joining the party for the Championship.

That wouldn't be a good move for him would it? He's got to keep with LH, but he doesn't want Kimi gaining ten points from one weekend.

If he wants to win this years championship then he will have to keep a level head and play this out til the end. If he doesn't and does something stupid then he will lose what little respect he has left with all but his most hardcore fans.

Lets just hope that it's a great race. This being a new circuit should make it interesting!

"Spot on" analysis of the situation. If Lewis and Fernando tangle at Turn 1, the drivers points going to China could be:

Hamilton 97
Alonso 95
Raikkonen 94

First round to Lewis!

Friday's best times:

Hamilton 1:18.734
Alonso 1:18.948

So far so good! :p :D

[Reppu]

They both 1 sec ahead of the rest i heard....

These times mean nothing, Saturday times will give a better view because people is still learning the track, setting up the car etc.

[Wee Scot]

These times mean nothing...

Yeah, sure. ...and I'll bet that's what Fernando is saying to himself right now as he tries to calm his nerves enough to get some sleep! :D

[GEISHA]

and I'll bet that's what Fernando is saying to himself right now as he tries to calm his nerves enough to get some sleep!

FA has seen the days of Michael Schumacher in which he became champion,
do you really think he loses sleep because of this.
BTW LH was on soft whilst FA was on medium tires. And soft seems to be the choice at Fuji san.
http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070928111404.shtml

I don't side with any of them, let the race decide i.s.o. entering in
bottomless dicussions.

[Wee Scot]

and I'll bet that's what Fernando is saying to himself right now as he tries to calm his nerves enough to get some sleep!

FA has seen the days of Michael Schumacher in which he became champion,
do you really think he loses sleep because of this.

Yes, I do! Fernando was in the reverse position vis-a-vis MS; he was the underdog battling the 7-times WC.

BTW LH was on soft whilst FA was on medium tires. And soft seems to be the choice at Fuji san.
http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070928111404.shtml


Yes, I read that same report, and in the first paragraph it states:

Lewis Hamilton used Bridgestone’s soft compound Potenza F1 tyre to set the fastest lap time on the first day of running at Mount Fuji for the Japanese Grand Prix. Hamilton completed his fastest lap, a 1:18.734s, early in the afternoon’s 90 minute practice session. He was two tenths faster than McLaren Mercedes team-mate Fernando Alonso, who also set his fastest time on the soft compound.

Point to Lewis! :p :D

[GEISHA]

Point to Lewis Right you are there.

A:
Lewis Hamilton used Bridgestone’s soft compound Potenza F1 tyre to set the fastest lap time on the first day of running at Mount Fuji for the Japanese Grand Prix. Hamilton completed his fastest lap, a 1:18.734s, early in the afternoon’s 90 minute practice session. He was two tenths faster than McLaren Mercedes team-mate Fernando Alonso, who also set his fastest time on the soft compound.

B:
The second practice session of the Japanese Grand Prix weekend saw Lewis Hamilton set the pace from McLaren Mercedes team-mate Fernando Alonso. The Championship leader lapped the 4.563km Fuji Speedway circuit in 1:18.734s early on in the 90-minute session, using a set of the soft Bridgestone Potenza tyres. Alonso, his fastest run on the medium compound tyres, was just over two-tenths adrift.

This is funny, same source, same GP and (again) same rubbish.

[RKipker]

Fuji not on PS3,.... i have a ps3! i'll look again though! i was going to ask if the track was available for rF or GTR2?

I think LH can take the field this week!

[Wee Scot]

Point to Lewis Right you are there.

A:
Lewis Hamilton used Bridgestone’s soft compound Potenza F1 tyre to set the fastest lap time on the first day of running at Mount Fuji for the Japanese Grand Prix. Hamilton completed his fastest lap, a 1:18.734s, early in the afternoon’s 90 minute practice session. He was two tenths faster than McLaren Mercedes team-mate Fernando Alonso, who also set his fastest time on the soft compound.

B:
The second practice session of the Japanese Grand Prix weekend saw Lewis Hamilton set the pace from McLaren Mercedes team-mate Fernando Alonso. The Championship leader lapped the 4.563km Fuji Speedway circuit in 1:18.734s early on in the 90-minute session, using a set of the soft Bridgestone Potenza tyres. Alonso, his fastest run on the medium compound tyres, was just over two-tenths adrift.

This is funny, same source, same GP and (again) same rubbish.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Yes, you are right, of course. I also read both reports and noted the discrepancy, but that didn't help me stay on the "slant" I wanted to take! GO LEWIS!!! :p :D

...can't WAIT for the start Saturday night (our time). That long drag down to Turn 1 should provide one of those signature video clips that gets shown for years afterwards! I'm hoping it seals the Legend of Lewis Hamilton, the first man to ever win the World Driving Championship as a rookie!

[GEISHA]

I'm hoping it seals the Legend of Lewis Hamilton, the first man to ever win the World Driving Championship as a rookie!

That would be an absolute first.
I regret L.H. was not born in another era.
I mean to say not in this era of manufactured stars, and the main focus on things happening outside the racing tracks.
I would have certainly been a huge fan of Lewis then, because he belongs to the very few with sheer natural talent, like Jimmy, Jackie, Ayrton, Alain and Michael, I suppose.

[RKipker]

I don't think FA gives a damn about LH feelings, at this point. It's clear that FA will take all risks necessary to be ahead of LH, because i think that to his eyes is LH who has something to loose and not him.

I think you’re completely wrong... IMHO! FA has everything to loose and his little tactic at SPA just proved how far he will go to eliminate his competition. Completely non-professional! LH on the other hand has proven he is a professional and will go much further in F-1 than FA over the next years to come. Who would want to be his teammate? Who as an owner would trust him?????

First he conspired to get and use Team F's info and secrets, when that didn't help... he tried to blackmail his team! Then when that didn't work... he tries to take him out! How come some folks can't see this guy for what he's become this year, is beyond my comprehension!

Bottom line… FA is the defending champion…. LH is just a rookie! No one expects LH to win…. Most folks are forgetting he is a ROOKIE! How can anyone not like the talent and competition he’s brought to the track.

Go LH, Go Kimi, Go PM.... Hell, I'm for anyone taking out FA! :roflmao:

I disagree, LH is not a manufactured star! How about we all give the Kid a break an d respect his achievements this year championship or not!

[Revvin]

Friday practice's are always a little misleading as the teams try runs with different fuel loads etc. Qualifying will be interesting but again we don't always get the full picture because of varying fuel loads.

[Wee Scot]

Yes, I'm fully aware of that, but I DID find it interesting that both LH and FA described the same approach to their practice sessions Friday:

Session 1: familiarization on one set of tires.

Session 2: trying different tires (and setups?)

To be sure, LH hasn't bagged the 10 points, yet! But he won Round 1 of the psychological battle, both on the track and in the press. ;)

He set it up himself in a (Thursday?) interview:

"It would be gutting to lose it now, so close to the end. I just have to do the job. I have to get out there and be faster than him [Alonso] in practice. The mental effect starts tomorrow morning. If I'm ahead of him it starts churning up in his mind. I have to keep on being there. My aim is to do that to him."

So far, so good...

[Revvin]

I don't care much for the silly mind games though Alonso has given his fair share earlier this season. I'm not an Alonso or Hamilton fan but if its not a red car going to win this year then I'd like to see Hamilton get it on merit. He came into the sport and performed well right from the start, such a great year from the rookie. He's had some ups and downs and lumbered with a team mate who seems not only to dislike him but also have disregard for his well being (Spa). He's been a breath of fresh air this season so if I had to pick one of the McLaren drivers it would be him. At the end of the season I'd then like to see alonso sign for Ferrari, it would go something a little like this:

<knock on the door>

Todt: Ah Fernando! come in, come in, we have the contract ready for you to sign

Alonso: Hi Jean, thats great where do I sign?

<Todt points and Alonso scribbles hissignature onto the document>

Alonso: Just one thing before I leave Jean...I will be No.1 driver in Ferrari next year, yes?

Todt: Of course Fernando, of course. You will be the first driver we call to drive Kimi and Felipe to the airport and you will drive the team's no.1 golf buggy on our corporate golf days

Alonso: Doh!

Todt: Come on Fernando did you really think we'd let you drive one of our F1 cars this year? 2007 is the last time you'll ever drive a Ferrari! ;)

[Roger]

Todt: Come on Fernando did you really think we'd let you drive one of our F1 cars this year? 2007 is the last time you'll ever drive a Ferrari! ;)


:D Ok - Revvin - you win :up:

[Reppu]

Every F1 thread in this forum is quickly becoming a "bash FA" contest so it seems.

[Wee Scot]

I don't care much for the silly mind games...

Hamilton is not playing a "silly mind game," he's merely pointing out that he's aware Fernando has not done a very good job of keeping his composure and getting good results when Lewis has outpaced him in practice and qualifying. Lewis simply has his eye on the ball and knows what he has to do. Nothing silly about that.

[Revvin]

Hamilton is not playing a "silly mind game," he's merely pointing out that he's aware Fernando has not done a very good job of keeping his composure and getting good results when Lewis has outpaced him in practice and qualifying. Lewis simply has his eye on the ball and knows what he has to do. Nothing silly about that.

The fact of the matter is its Hamilton who should be concerned his large points advantage has been eroded so quickly. He should be concerned that Alonso has finished the last three races in a higher position than him so what he does in practice and qualifying is important but he needs to be turning that into results on the track. Thats why he should be concentrating on that rather than silly mind games trying to put pressure back on Alonso. As I've said I'd rather him win the DWC on the performance he's put in this year but he needs to now be doing the talking on the track.

[RKipker]

Like a shredded tire! Remember, LH the only MM racer suffering from an on track failure.

The set back FA got for blocking the pit had nothing to do with LH, it was a penalty from FIA, even though RD went to FA defense, he knew it was low down!

I think the Kid handles the pressure pretty well.... can't say the same for FA though.

[Slick1]

is this about the gp fuji or FA vs. LH??

[Wee Scot]

...what he does in practice and qualifying is important but he needs to be turning that into results on the track. Thats why he should be concentrating on that rather than silly mind games trying to put pressure back on Alonso.

Well, I submit that what he does in practice is CRITICAL to how well he'll do in qualifying--both on it's own merits and because of what his success does to Fernando's nerves. And how well he does in qualifying is CRITICAL to his chances of leading after the first turn. And whether he leads after the first turn is CRITICAL to his chances of winning the race! That's just the way it is in F1 these days. As far as I remember, he HAS been converting his starting positions into corresponding finishing results--or better--all season, excepting his two tire failures and going off in the downpour!

Qualifying IS the race, as far as I'm concerned. The race--at least after the first corner--is mostly a procession. So whatever he can do to gain an advantage in qualifying will be CRITICAL to his chances of holding on to win the championship. It may be a mind game he's playing, but it's hardly "silly."

[RKipker]

Qualifying IS the race, as far as I'm concerned. The race--at least after the first corner--is mostly a procession.

Well... may not be this weekend, because if Lewis gets ahead of FA, I think he'll panic and either take LH out trying to pass or himself!

Slick1, the discussion is about the Fuji Race.... but the heat is mostly b/w FA an LH don't you think?

I will be pulling for Kimi if LH can't pull it off! I think Kimi and all the guys today were holding bavck some. I'm sure you'll see times down a full second or more in Q2.

[RKipker]

OK.... just finished watching the complete F-1 2000 season on DVD I picked up from Amazon. MM vs. the Big F' .... just as they are this year! I know most of you guys all know this, but I didn't!

F-1 has become a passion of mine last three years, so I'm catching up!

Anyway, MS won his third DC while DC and MH id their best to take it away. No scandals and no teammates taking each other out! DVD was ok quality, not as ba as reviews said.

I 'm looking forward to qualifying in a few hours!

[Wee Scot]

LEWIS HAMILTON!!!

P1 by 0.07 on the LAST lap in qualifying, in difficult wet conditions, where driver skill comes to the front.

Need I say more???

:D :up: :D :up: :D

:p

Can't wait for the pole press conference...

A quiet, confident, RELAXED LH. Barring mechanical difficulty, Lewis comes away from Fuji with a four, or five, or even six point lead!? Ferraris have had rocket starts of late, and I think it quite likely Fernando will be overtaken by one or both by the time they come out of Turn 1.

:D

[Reppu]

I think the Kid handles the pressure pretty well.... can't say the same for FA though.

I that, i totally agree. I think FA just didn't see it coming. At the begginning of the season he probably though "double WC and a noob as teammate....no doubt i'm #1 driver here". LH amazing performances, coupled with the cold treatment, no-cheer he has received from the team from the very beggining took him out of his nerves. It's only in the last 4 races where he could come together again, showing that on the track. Now it's LH who should be worried because being the first rookie to win the championship can only happen once. You loose it and it's gone forever. Then again i don't know if LH is much of a record searching guy.

With respect to today's qualy, just 0,070 sec between both drivers. FA reported a not so good tyre set in the press room, but that doesn't take away LH merit. They are as close as usual and start will be highly stressing i guess. I just hope for some pouring rain tomorrow during the whole 67 laps as that's where FA shines and makes the difference.

[Reppu]

Barring mechanical difficulty, Lewis comes away from Fuji with a four, or five, or even six point lead!? Ferraris have had rocket starts of late, and I think it quite likely Fernando will be overtaken by one or both by the time they come out of Turn 1.
:D

Kimi does not have a good starting record this year. I don't think he can pass FA. My bet is FA & LH in parallel at T1 and sparks flying everywhere.

The 4, 5 6 points lead it could be. Also, it could be a lot of rain, LH making a mistake and FA comfortably winning (wait, didn't we see that this year already?). Let's wait for the actual race tomorrow, i'm sure it will be great.

[Wee Scot]

Kimi does not have a good starting record this year. I don't think he can pass FA. My bet is FA & LH in parallel at T1 and sparks flying everywhere.

The 4, 5 6 points lead it could be. Also, it could be a lot of rain, LH making a mistake and FA comfortably winning (wait, didn't we see that this year already?). Let's wait for the actual race tomorrow, i'm sure it will be great.

Fair points, all. In just over 21 hours we'll be treated to that start! Certainly good for LH that the cars have TC... :D

If it is still raining, LH will have the chance to win it on merit, and FA will have the chance to teach the rookie another lesson.

The Classic Match Up.

[RKipker]

I just hope for some pouring rain tomorrow during the whole 67 laps as that's where FA shines and makes the difference.

I'm not attacking you Reppu.... but I must wonder what are you thinking....? If you watched the same Q1- Q3 sessions I did and the response to questions I did on Speed.... from the top three, how could you pull against a young Kid as talented as LH....? Simply amazing IMHO! Plus he compliments his team, never takes credit for himself first!!!!

I for ONE.... take my hat off to the Kid win or loose tomorrow and the championship over the next three races. This young man has certainly proven to me and I believe most of the F-1 world of racing that he is the next contender that the entire field will have to deal with for the next several years, if not the next decade.

I’m not saying yet, he'll be another MS.... but as Peyton Manning is slowly proving to all he's the next great QB, Lewis Hamilton will, I believe, do the same in F-1! I don’t see how anyone could not recognize this young man for what he’s accomplished this year in F-1.

Give the kid a break!

I hope they are both at the top of their skills tomorrow and the dirty tactics are left out and the best driver wins straight up w/o incident! Which I find will be difficult for FA to allow w/o trying to cut-off LH at the start!

I believe FA would rather allow Kimi to win then let LH win for MM team!

GO LEWIS…. BE P1…. You’ve “EARNED IT”

[Roger]

Wow!!!!!! - one step at a time............

That was a beautiful lap, artistry.

Right now, I wouldn't write off Alonso in the race - he certainly isn't beaten yet. And for me, Lewis' pole didn't fully reflect their comparative pace (it was a perfect pressure lap 'though :trophy:). With Alonso, history shows us that he WILL dig deep and take the fight to Lewis. Likewise, Lewis has the armoury to fight with. It will be fascinating.

Of course Ferrari are right up there for pace and I don't think we know how they are fuelled.

The other driver, for me, was Button - if any driver on the grid transcended the car, it was Jense.

Did anyone notice a couple of small details: When Lewis was out of the car, he embraced his guys, but also got into Fernando's guys too...........subtle..........and I think clever ;). Also, in the conference he mentioned "team" many more times than was strictly necessary. You can see where he is heading in the phsycological battle. In his mind, he is ready to win this championship - and that might be enough to make the difference.

[rasfigjohn]

I taped the quali... That was funny... got the impression that Hamilton tried to push the car with his head movements at the end... lol.

[Nuberu]

Who wants to pick Alonso and who wants to be his teammate?

Wait until he goes free and you will se, both BMW, Ferrari and Toyota said he should pick him.

What about going to marshals accusing your own team (Hungary), very professional??

LOL

[gazman]

hamilton and alonso should be booted or made to drive Spyker cars.

[Nuberu]

Yes that's true :D

[Reppu]

@ Rkipker: i don't know how did you get the idea that i don't like LH. I admire him a lot, his first year is and will be unparalleled and i'm sure he will be WC more than once in his career. He will be the man to beat in the next years. That has nothing to do with all that is happening around FA. LH is the "beautiful boy" of Ron Dennis, it was made clear to FA the very same day the season started and that is what took FA out of his nerves. That's all i'm saying time and time again. I don't have nothing against LH because he is just taking advantage of the team's attitude towards him and against FA. This has been going on during the entire season. Did FA manage the situation in a very clumsy way? YES! But let's be fair and admit that the team never welcomed him much either.

Some other comments:

- LH points to FA saying he is not loyal to the team. As Nuberu just said, he seems to forget what he did to the team at Hungary, blaming the team to avoid a penalty himself...not to talk about yelling your boss and protector to shut the f**k up when everyone was listening.

- Interesting words from FA during the post qualy interview, in the spanish bit: "the rear of the car was a bit happy, maybe the tyres were not in good shape". My read between the lines is: "my rear tyres pressure was messed....again".

- about FA offering money to the mechanics: FA has always, since the beginning at Renault, offered part of the money earned as podiumer, to promote team spirit and give his mechanics the merit not only in words but also in species. When he came to McL he tried to do the same but when RD knew, he told FA it was absolutely forbidden to do that in his team. Never happened again. Months later, info comes out from who knows where, that FA is trying to pay his mechanics to have a better car than LH......go figure, talk about loyalty.....

[washington96]

Reppu try sticking to the facts mate. We've already been through the incident at Hungary. If you want to know who started it then it was FA for slowing down on his inlap causing LH make the decision to stay out for one more lap of fuel credit. Things snowballed from there and neither driver covered themselves in glory.

As for the alleged conversation between LH and RD that has already been dealt with and found to be untrue. As you yourself claimed in an earlier post - don't believe everything you read in the press.

Paying your team to provide you with a better car than your team mate sounds very dodgy to me and to be honest I didn't believe that when I heard it. If you say that also occured at Renault then maybe it is true.

- Interesting words from FA during the post qualy interview, in the spanish bit: "the rear of the car was a bit happy, maybe the tyres were not in good shape". My read between the lines is: "my rear tyres pressure was messed....again".

Again you try the conspiracy theory to suit your needs. That would be one hell of a team who could adjust the tyre pressure to slow you down by .070 of a second. Not very convincing is it??

Apart from the LH vs FA debate - What did everybody think of the track?? Looks like if could provide a good race tomorrow with some interesting sections. Plus the changing weather could be a variable.

[Revvin]

Reppu try sticking to the facts mate. We've already been through the incident at Hungary. If you want to know who started it then it was FA for slowing down on his inlap causing LH make the decision to stay out for one more lap of fuel credit. Things snowballed from there and neither driver covered themselves in glory.

As for the alleged conversation between LH and RD that has already been dealt with and found to be untrue. As you yourself claimed in an earlier post - don't believe everything you read in the press.

Paying your team to provide you with a better car than your team mate sounds very dodgy to me and to be honest I didn't believe that when I heard it. If you say that also occured at Renault then maybe it is true.

- Interesting words from FA during the post qualy interview, in the spanish bit: "the rear of the car was a bit happy, maybe the tyres were not in good shape". My read between the lines is: "my rear tyres pressure was messed....again".

Again you try the conspiracy theory to suit your needs. That would be one hell of a team who could adjust the tyre pressure to slow you down by .070 of a second. Not very convincing is it??

Apart from the LH vs FA debate - What did everybody think of the track?? Looks like if could provide a good race tomorrow with some interesting sections. Plus the changing weather could be a variable.

Well put :up:

In regards to the track yes it looks like it might offer some good racing, perhaps we'll see some good slipstreaming down the straight and Hamilton is very good on the brakes as he showed at Monza.

[Roger]

I will be awake bright and early for this one..........track looks good. But the racing should be good throughout - there appear to be a mix of wet or dry setups on the cars, so depending on the weather some may be heading backwards in the race - others flying forwards.

Has anyone heard a strategy comments? The pitlane seems veeeerrrrry long - with that and the chance of variable weather - does one-stopping look likely?

[RKipker]

Good points guys! Great discussion…. No one in my family follows the races, they’re all Alabama Football and NASCAR Fans... :rolleyes:

Roger, you’re right…. We may just see someone else emerge into this battle besides Big Red. Though, it did seem as it has been all year, the top four will again lead the pack.

I think the weather could play a major role! If the fog doesn't lift w/o rain could make for some interesting few laps until the line drives and may eliminate some early aggressiveness.

I enjoyed the year 2000 recap when many races required tire changes due to changing weather…. Though I dislike the rain in GTR2 on me… I can’t handle the car…. ;)

Reppu,, sorry mate, I guess I misread your comments, though they still seem a little directed to LH. But your are right, he will be the man to beat in years to come.... but heck he's also the "Man to Beat Right now, THIS YEAR" as well! :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

[Reppu]

The "read between the lines" was just that, not a fact but a feeling on my side, that's all. I don't see what's wrong sharing you podium prize with the team, if i was a mechanic i would certainly appreciate it. Using that to discredit FA is malicious and stingy. With respect the words between RD & LH, i always thought it was true because i read it in all international media and never heard any of them denying it. If it was actually denyed by them, then i retire my words.

I think the track is fantastic, it reminds me of Dijon at times. Certainly it suits perfectly for a F1 race and the long straight gives chances for a lot of overtake attemps breaking for T1. If Hamilton can't make a comfortable gap for the last laps of every stint, he will suffer there because he usually makes the front left tyre suffer a lot. This should be one of the best races of the season.

[lowndes888]

A certain B team had a very good result today, I hope they make get their first points tomorrow:)

[DocZ]

20-year-old in a back-marker car! Toro Rosso's best quali ever.

[snowy]

:cool:

[rasfigjohn]

:cool:

:yes: :up:

[Wee Scot]

Any questions? :D

[Wee Scot]

Going to get some sleep now...

:)

[Roger]

Hamilton Wins

Alonso Bins

Reppu - I genuinely have sympathy with you.........I was sorry to see Alonso drop it (but not too sorry ;)). Now you have a chance to uphold the honour of Spain in our league race tonight :up:

[Reppu]

Looks like the kid has also good hands for wet conditions. Kudos for him, my respect for him increases every race and it's pretty clear now he will be champion.

I could only see the last 20 laps so i missed almost everything. According to spanish TV there was a Safety Car start, that is a fake of a start and takes away half of it if you ask me. They report FA was a bit quicker during first stint but couldn't pass LH. Second stint, FA has declared to spanish TV that he got a defective tyre set again and the car was impossible to drive after 3 laps, and after ten more laps the tyres went almost slick and it became easier then. He also said that after the crash with Vettel (what happened?) the balance of the car was gone but still kept pushing until he lost control. At least he's OK, but chances for the championship are gone.

Those who actually saw the race, could you please explain us who didn't what happened?.

[Reppu]

.........I was sorry to see Alonso drop it (but not too sorry ;)). Now you have a chance to uphold the honour of Spain in our league race tonight :up:

Yeqah, i know that. Tonight i don't think i can be there, family event...

[Roger]

Hi Reppu - here's what I saw..........

Safety Car start - they had to..............

When the Sc went in Lewis played hardball with FA before they dropped the hammer - and he stayed in front.

After that he pulled away from Alonso by a few seconds (it looked pretty easy).

FA stopped first 11.9 secs

LH stopped 2nd 11.6 secs (I think it was one lap later).

When LH pulled out of the pits he was 7/8 secs ahead of FA and there were 2-3 cars between them.

Race on..........Lewis pulled out quite a big gap; big enough that Kubica knocked him into a spin and he didn't fall into FA's hands.

After that Lewis seemed to have the better pace and eventually FA dropped it.

In all seriousness - Lewis beat him fair and square today.

I will say, after the pit stop FA didn't seem to quite have the pace he had before - but even so, LH was quicker.

[willowjoe]

[QUOTE=Wee Scot;153664]:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Yes, you are right, of course. I also read both reports and noted the discrepancy, but that didn't help me stay on the "slant" I wanted to take! GO LEWIS!!! :p :D

...can't WAIT for the start Saturday night (our time). That long drag down to Turn 1 should provide one of those signature video clips that gets shown for years afterwards! I'm hoping it seals the Legend of Lewis Hamilton, the first man to ever win the World Driving Championship as a rookie![/Q

Ahem! Giuseppe Farina. And yes it does count!

p.s Lewis doesn't deserve the win after what he's done.What happened at Spa was called an excellent overtaking move.It seems that Lewis can dish it out but when the big boys come out to play he cries and whinges to Ronnie Dennis. Screw F1 (don't ban me, i'm airing my opinions)

[Reppu]

When the Sc went in Lewis played hardball with FA before they dropped the hammer

In other words please? I didn't quite understand that.

What happened between FA and Vettel? I saw an image of the side pod of FA's car heavily damaged.

[Roger]

Well, you know when the SC is about to pull in; job of the guy in front is to make sure he gets his foot down first and hardest :D To make sure the other chap doesn't take a run on him................

Well Lewis made several "false" bursts and pulled up quite hard - obviously to keep FA guessing. If I am being honest - clever driving, but also on the edge of not quite "right".

I didn't realise it was Vettel who hit FA - but there was certainly contact - a similar type to LH & Kubica. All four were racing for position; so fair enough is my view.

Before this race unfolded - when I saw the conditions, I had pretty much decided that which of the two won - would have had a Champion's drive and probably deserved the title. In this case it was Lewis who was virtually flawless.

[Mike45]

WOAH. . . .what a race!
At first it was obviously boring because of about 15 - 20 laps under safety car. So many incidents/crashes/mistakes. FA sure went out of the drivers champ with a bang :D . It was great to watch Massa and i think it was Kubica shoving each other of the track about 3 times in a row on the last lap.

How ever i was very disappointed with the stupidity Liuzzi had in running into the back of the most unluckiest F1 driver for the last 3 years (Mark Webber) who had a strong chance of winning the race with enough fuel, was sitting in 2nd place and was lapping faster than 1st.

[Reppu]

Before this race unfolded - when I saw the conditions, I had pretty much decided that which of the two won - would have had a Champion's drive and probably deserved the title. In this case it was Lewis who was virtually flawless.

Agreed. Flawless season in fact.

[snowy]

How ever i was very disappointed with the stupidity Liuzzi had in running into the back of the most unluckiest F1 driver for the last 3 years (Mark Webber) who had a strong chance of winning the race with enough fuel, was sitting in 2nd place and was lapping faster than 1st.

It was Vettel who shunted Webber and was involved in Alonso's first prang. so he didn't have such a good day. :o

[File 1993]

I must say, very interesting race!

[Gaiajohan]

Stupid safety car start and doing laps for 18laps.. :(
These drivers get paid for this.
These drivers know rain is dangerous
These drivers should be the best in the world.
So..
They just should race in the rain, and not drive behind the safety car. Only then we'll see the men from boys.

Seriously, after the SC was away I liked it..

[Gaiajohan]

I didn't realise it was Vettel who hit FA - but there was certainly contact - a similar type to LH & Kubica. All four were racing for position; so fair enough is my view.



But the pint is, the LH - Kubica duel was Kubica's fault.
FA - Vettel duel, was FA's fault. He suddenly steered a bit strange into the corner what Vettel couldn't know.

[Dzul]

:rolleyes: For good racing in wet weather watch A1GP... :D

My thoughts after this race, in a nutshell:

1- Well done Hamilton! The kid is good... acknowledged today! :up:
2- A dutch word Alonso should be learning by now: PECH! :p
3- Vettel should NOT be allowed to drive when it rains... :mad:

[Gaiajohan]

:rolleyes: For good racing in wet weather watch A1GP... :D

My thoughts after this race, in a nutshell:

1- Well done Hamilton! The kid is good... acknowledged today! :up:
2- A dutch word Alonso should be learning by now: PECH! :p
3- Vettel should NOT be allowed to drive when it rains... :mad:

I think Vettel is a good rain driver, but one time no concentration, or just watching at the steering wheel, and boom. I think it should be forbidden that people are braking and accelerating hard under safety car, that just gives dangerous situations.

[SearleD]

Webber swearing on live TV! :up:

What a race, the F1 organisers really need to find a way of soaking the tracks before each race. Wet races always provide more action than dry races.

[Gaiajohan]

Webber said:
'The rookie ****ed it all up'.

[SearleD]

I loved the way Webber just threw his steering wheel away as the car skidded to a halt, pure emotion, thats what racing is all about. :)

[Wee Scot]

Hi Reppu - here's what I saw..........

Safety Car start - they had to..............

When the Sc went in Lewis played hardball with FA before they dropped the hammer - and he stayed in front.

After that he pulled away from Alonso by a few seconds (it looked pretty easy).

FA stopped first 11.9 secs

LH stopped 2nd 11.6 secs (I think it was one lap later).

When LH pulled out of the pits he was 7/8 secs ahead of FA and there were 2-3 cars between them.

Race on..........Lewis pulled out quite a big gap; big enough that Kubica knocked him into a spin and he didn't fall into FA's hands.

After that Lewis seemed to have the better pace and eventually FA dropped it.

In all seriousness - Lewis beat him fair and square today.

I will say, after the pit stop FA didn't seem to quite have the pace he had before - but even so, LH was quicker.

Good concise race analysis, Roger, but you left out one important point: after Alonso pitted he came back out behind four slower cars; after Hamilton pitted he came back out in FRONT of this group. Lucky? Yes, but then, as the saying goes, sometimes "you make your own luck." LH put himself in that position of advantage, then took full advantage of it! :)

[washington96]

I could only see the last 20 laps so i missed almost everything. According to spanish TV there was a Safety Car start, that is a fake of a start and takes away half of it if you ask me. They report FA was a bit quicker during first stint but couldn't pass LH. Second stint, FA has declared to spanish TV that he got a defective tyre set again and the car was impossible to drive after 3 laps, and after ten more laps the tyres went almost slick and it became easier then. He also said that after the crash with Vettel (what happened?) the balance of the car was gone but still kept pushing until he lost control. At least he's OK, but chances for the championship are gone.

I don't know where the Spanish tv get their information from, but at no point was FA quicker than LH during the whole race. LH opened up a 3 second lead after the safety car pulled in for the first time. They both pitted within a lap of each other with near identical pit stop times, but because LH had that 3 second gap he was able to get out in front of a group of four cars that FA didn't after his stop.

To put an end to any question about conspiracy theories involving tyres, you will note that both McLarens were a lot slower after their pitstops. LH was so much slower that he allowed Fisichella and Coulthard past him as they were so much faster at that point in the race. Kubica made his own way past with a very silly and uncharacteristic move.

If Spanish tv are trying to make excuses for FA with the second set of tyres then all I can say is wait until you have seen the race and let the facts speak for themselves.

LH drove a faultless race and FA may have just blown any chances of the championship this year. I know he had some damage to his sidepod, but you have to say with his experience that he should have been able to drive around that problem. Button was driving without a front wing and was only 3 seconds off the pace!

I though Kimi drove an incredible race too and gained himself third place in spite of the Ferrari making very questionable decisions throughout the race.

So two races to go and a 12 point lead over FA and 17 over Kimi. Barring reliability issues it's all looking good for the rookie to win in his debut year.

Would be nice to see a dry race here next year though as it does look like a good track for racing.

[Reppu]

No one likes TV retransmition here really. It's like FA and then all those other pilots. They are taking care of their business, like all other media i guess.

FA is complaining a lot about tyres not being consistent lately, and McL should be taking care of that, don't you think so? LH usually doesn't report such problems (i don't forget about the tyre burst). Or maybe FA is missing the Michelins so much...that could be as well, but it's strange that FA only complains about certain tyre sets, not all of them.

With the car unbalanced, FA shouldn't have pushed so hard, i agree with that. Going out was entirely his fault, the smart thing would have been to get a 3rd or 4th instead of a zero.

[RKipker]

Did you notice FA took himself out! I mean there was no other car involved, simply lost it on his own. Of course, the conditions were horrific, as they were for all drivers, but I think we all witnessed a little “poetic justice” playing out today at Fuji. I agree he was pushing harder than he should have, but true champions always believe in themselves, and FA is a true champion and racer!!!! (I just don't like the whining/dirty maneuvers he's displayed of late)

What do you guys think of the Webber/Vettel incident???? After hearing LH on the podium about MW out breaking himself many times over and over behind the safety car. MW may have surprised the young rookie when he smashed him from behind. What an awesome finish it would have been for MW and SV…. They looked a little like me on my PS3…. :o

Bottom line…. LH has broken even more records as he out performs the field in 2007!

LH ----> :trophy: <---- Fuji TV GP

[Gaiajohan]

Did you notice FA took himself out! I mean there was no other car involved, simply lost it on his own. Of course, the conditions were horrific, as they were for all drivers, but I think we all witnessed a little “poetic justice” playing out today at Fuji. I agree he was pushing harder than he should have, but true champions always believe in themselves, and FA is a true champion and racer!!!! (I just don't like the whining/dirty maneuvers he's displayed of late)

What do you guys think of the Webber/Vettel incident???? After hearing LH on the podium about MW out breaking himself many times over and over behind the safety car. MW may have surprised the young rookie when he smashed him from behind. What an awesome finish it would have been for MW and SV…. They looked a little like me on my PS3…. :o

Bottom line…. LH has broken even more records as he out performs the field in 2007!

LH ----> :trophy: <---- Fuji TV GP

Like I said, the braking and accelerating can surprise anybody. It's just too dangerous. A restart on cold tyres is maybe even safer, as drivers must know how the tyres are when they're cold. Just brake a little earlier, and don't do anything strange.

The braking and accelerating must be forbidden imho,

[Kongo]

Hamilton won! ACE!
Alonso crashed...ALSO ace! Cheats really never do prosper eh?

Hamilton kept to what he said clearly on Radio 1:

"McLaren would rather I win the championship as I have earned thier respect fair and square. But if Alonso wants to be agressive, i can be agressive too.

I feel I have nothing to loose, Alonso has to defend the championship and he's not keeping with it."

Go for it man, WIN the entire Championship!
Jus goes to show, it takes a Brit to race in rain LOL!

[ICKE]

Hamilton is the most worthless champion in the history of F1. Again FIA screwed Ferrari by not letting them know that they had to use monsoon tires in the race. They received the e-mail when the race was already on.

What a joke this "sport" is, I´ve watched F1´s for 15 years but it´s over now. Perhaps I will be tempted next year but I doubt it.

[Andy77]

the root to all discussions is the fact that never before a rookie got a top cars seat anyway.
I for one often wondered how a Senna,Schumacher or Prost would have done in their rookie season in a top seat. The last time i wondered this was when Glock was Rookie Of The Year in champcar.

[Revvin]

An outstanding drive by Hamilton. I'm not sure what race the Spanish TV commentators were watching if they said he was faster, maybe the odd lap or two as their times flip back and fore through traffic but Hamilton opened up a gap and that was clear to see. As Roger said they both struggled after the first pitstop and it was nervy stuff as Hamilton fought with Coulthard and Webber. It seemed that lady luck was not smiling on McLaren half way through the race as both drivers were involved in collisions not of their making and Alonso's ran out for sure as he went off. I was really impressed by Kimi's late charge, as the conditions got worse he raced harder making up positions to finish third after being dead last when the safety car finally let them all go racing.

[Andy77]

I really start to hate tarmac run off areas. The guys would race way less risky if they would know that they can't build in run off areas into their ideal line

[Gerald81]

the root to all discussions is the fact that never before a rookie got a top cars seat anyway.
I for one often wondered how a Senna,Schumacher or Prost would have done in their rookie season in a top seat. The last time i wondered this was when Glock was Rookie Of The Year in champcar.

The amazing thing is, Hamilton didn't get the top seat, no rookie ever does. He won it over, and from a world champion no less. The guy is simply talented like no other.

[Joel]

FA said after the race that he was faster then LH at the start of the race but couldn't get close enough to challenge because of the spray. LH said that he was going as fast as he needed to go to keep FA behind him and could have gone quicker if necessary...

[Gerald81]

I really start to hate tarmac run off areas. The guys would race way less risky if they would know that they can't build in run off areas into their ideal line

Agreed, the final few overtaking manouevres by Massa and Kubica as they fought for positions made a total mockery of track racing as they seemed to be racing over everywhere but the track itself..

[Revvin]

I really start to hate tarmac run off areas. The guys would race way less risky if they would know that they can't build in run off areas into their ideal line

The only reason Kimi was able to stay ahead after running of twice or perhaps more times on one corner was because the conditions were so treacherous. Had it been a dry race he would have lost places. The tarmac makes it safer and that has to be a good thing.

[Andy77]

The only reason Kimi was able to stay ahead after running of twice or perhaps more times on one corner was because the conditions were so treacherous. Had it been a dry race he would have lost places. The tarmac makes it safer and that has to be a good thing.

You can watch every year at the start and end of DTM season how safe such a run off is. Hockenheim is really the worst example since its rebuild. out of the chicane ideal line leads way over what is supposed to be a curb.
besides, I love bike racing too and tarmaced run offs dont help the bike riders much. even worse, they get burned and even more injured when falling from bike.

[HR186S]

I felt gutted when Webber was shown at the side of the track.
Seriously what's the bloke have to do to have a good run? :(

[Revvin]

You can watch every year at the start and end of DTM season how safe such a run off is. Hockenheim is really the worst example since its rebuild. out of the chicane ideal line leads way over what is supposed to be a curb.
besides, I love bike racing too and tarmaced run offs dont help the bike riders much. even worse, they get burned and even more injured when falling from bike.

Cars tend to just skip over gravel traps, sometimes tin tops will turn over. Tarmac allows the tyres to grip and bleed off speed, perhaps even allow for additional braking space making final impact into a tyre wall less harmful. I don't ride bikes but I think I'd rather slide and possibly a burn (though they wear knee and elbow pads) than face a sudden jarring stop digging into gravel.

[Damper]

Sorry HR186S, but Mark Weber made that happen all by himself. Why, well he was driving dangerously close to Lewis Hamilton whilst they were under the second safety car. There was no real need for it, given the appaling conditions. Lewis was on the radio asking for Weber to back off, because Lewis had to watch how close he was being forced up the rear of the Safety car! and how close Weber and the rest of the pack were bunching behind him. So, when Hamilton starts to back things up, Weber was too close already, snatches some brakes and wham! So Weber's attempts to gain an advantage by sticking to Hamilton caused his downfall.
Had Weber backed off a little and bunched the pack behind him, waiting for Hamitlon to start his run, then Weber could have pulled a gap over the rest along the straight. I mean what were his chances, and the risks, of staying ahead of Hamilton, even if he had managed to jump him at the re-start!

[Andy77]

Cars tend to just skip over gravel traps, sometimes tin tops will turn over. Tarmac allows the tyres to grip and bleed off speed, perhaps even allow for additional braking space making final impact into a tyre wall less harmful. I don't ride bikes but I think I'd rather slide and possibly a burn (though they wear knee and elbow pads) than face a sudden jarring stop digging into gravel.

Dajiro Katoh (RIP) got thrown into the wall at Suzuka through the gravel trap at last chicane because he was armed out (ausgehebelt) and died there . It indeed is different if the rider falls from bike. tarmac provides high grip for tires but unfortunately not to leather clothes when thrown from bike.

I wonder that my Hockenheim comment didnt made you to respond though. It is the very best place to show how crap these tarmac run offs work in todays 4-wheel racing. First corner (Nordkurve) is as bad too :down:

[Andy77]

Sorry HR186S, but Mark Weber made that happen all by himself. Why, well he was driving dangerously close to Lewis Hamilton whilst they were under the second safety car. There was no real need for it, given the appaling conditions. Lewis was on the radio asking for Weber to back off, because Lewis had to watch how close he was being forced up the rear of the Safety car! and how close Weber and the rest of the pack were bunching behind him. So, when Hamilton starts to back things up, Weber was too close already, snatches some brakes and wham! So Weber's attempts to gain an advantage by sticking to Hamilton caused his downfall.
Had Weber backed off a little and bunched the pack behind him, waiting for Hamitlon to start his run, then Weber could have pulled a gap over the rest along the straight. I mean what were his chances, and the risks, of staying ahead of Hamilton, even if he had managed to jump him at the re-start!

you ask a 2nd placed racer to wait for the leader of a race to go away just because he leads the cs ?!!!

really biased view

[Damper]

No, I ask that a 2nd place driver realises the awfull conditions and maybe this isn't the time to tail-gate the leader. In the dry the tactic would be expected. But, If Weber had left more of a gap, bunched the pack behind himself, when Hamilton stepped on the gas, the larger gap would have given Weber the opportunity to follow Hamilton and pull a gap on the rest of the field. Surely, this would have given Weber a greater advatage!

[washington96]

FA is complaining a lot about tyres not being consistent lately, and McL should be taking care of that, don't you think so? LH usually doesn't report such problems (i don't forget about the tyre burst). Or maybe FA is missing the Michelins so much...that could be as well, but it's strange that FA only complains about certain tyre sets, not all of them.

With the car unbalanced, FA shouldn't have pushed so hard, i agree with that. Going out was entirely his fault, the smart thing would have been to get a 3rd or 4th instead of a zero.

Lewis has also complained about the tyres a few times this season. Silverstone springs to mind, but he's commented on it at a few other tracks too. It seems a problem McLaren have. Maybe the car is very sensitive to how much fuel is put in the car?? As it really seems to struggle with a heavy tank. This would explain why it is usually the second stint that the McLaren struggles.

As for the Webber/Vettel incident Webber was swerving all over the track and accelerating hard then jumping on his brakes. In those conditions it was very over the top. I was sure he was going to take Hamilton out eventually if he carried on so I think it was him who was to blame for that incident. Unfortunately when they showed the re-run here in the UK they cut that bit out and it just looked like Vettel drove into the back of him for no reason.

[Andy77]

Lewis has also complained about the tyres a few times this season. Silverstone springs to mind, but he's commented on it at a few other tracks too. It seems a problem McLaren have. Maybe the car is very sensitive to how much fuel is put in the car?? As it really seems to struggle with a heavy tank. This would explain why it is usually the second stint that the McLaren struggles.

As for the Webber/Vettel incident Webber was swerving all over the track and accelerating hard then jumping on his brakes. In those conditions it was very over the top. I was sure he was going to take Hamilton out eventually if he carried on so I think it was him who was to blame for that incident. Unfortunately when they showed the re-run here in the UK they cut that bit out and it just looked like Vettel drove into the back of him for no reason.

LOL.....Vettel drove in there for no reason. Guess why he was that dissatisfied at all. I watched the whole one without ads and it was really similar to the Schumacher /Montoya tunnel incident at Monaco some time back

[Damper]

Kubica felt he was faster than Hamilton at that point in the race. He is close to Hamilton out of the previous turn. Hamilton takes a very wide line, Kubica sees an opportunity and has 1/100th of a second to decide. He takes the speed he is carrying and tries hard to get the car slowed on the tight line, but doesn't make it. They touch, spin and both recover.

So what's so wrong with that! How many cars were doing a similar thing at turn one!!! How many of those drivers got drive-thoughs!


(Webber incident) Vettel was doing what was expected of him and what everyone else around him was doing, trying to get some heat into tyres and brakes! Webber should have been aware of the other drivers, but he had some tunnel-vision thing and saw himself passing Hamilton on the straight already!

[Andy77]

Kubica felt he was faster than Hamilton at that point in the race. He is close to Hamilton out of the previous turn. Hamilton takes a very wide line, Kubica sees an opportunity and has 1/100th of a second to decide. He takes the speed he is carrying and tries hard to get the car slowed on the tight line, but doesn't make it. They touch, spin and both recover.

So what's so wrong with that! How many cars were doing a similar thing at turn one!!! How many of those drivers got drive-thoughs!


(Webber incident) Vettel was doing what was expected of him and what everyone else around him was doing, trying to get some heat into tyres and brakes!


so what do you do ?
you feel it is right to overtake and crash or you know there is a slight possibility to go through

[Raikku]

Mika Salo said cleverly on Finnish tv about these constant penalties which are given almost everytime when cars touch each others on passing situations. he said that soon noone dares to even try to pass, if possible crash leads everytime to some stupid penalties.

He also said that he fears that these, too strict, rules kills the competion totally in the future.

Salo is a wise man, some could say. Lets hope that those who are in charge in FIA, are wise too...


Edit. and of course BIG congratulions to HK, first podium and great race, he and Kimi will win many championships in the future.

[Damper]

Andy77, no, it's not right to deliberatly overtake and crash, that's plain dumb. But you take opportunities when they arise and you decide in split seconds. In making that move you need to assess your own survival rates too you know.
Kubica made every attempt to get the speed reduced on the tight line, but couldn't. But both of them continued and Hamilton won. It's unfair on Kubica when you look at the collisions that went on in turn one, where a lot more guys were scything through without any chance of collecting the car in the turn!

[Altarir]

The problem with F1 is that the drivers are not allowed to race properly: Kubica bumped into hamilton (who could just look in his bloody mirrors and give some space), fine, they both lost some pace and the race could go on, but no, the F1 marshals must punnish everyone, who wants to overtake another driver, especially if it's hamilton who's overtaken (and yes I do think that the people who run F1 want hamilton to win, because then the popularity of the sprort will rise in the UK). Senna, Schumacher, Prost: they all did risky overtaking, wich sometimes resulted in far bigger accidents than that in today's race. Schumacher won a championship thanks to crashing, Senna and Prost also bumped into each other. Were they punnished? No! Some of the most memorable moments in F1 history involved driving far more dangerous than in todays race. I stopped watching F1 this year: As it seems to me, clearly hamilton is favoured to win the championship. And besides: why watch a racing series that nearly forbids overtaking. If only there were more WTCC races than we have now, that's real racing to me

PS Just in case: the above opinions are my personal ones, so I don't want any shouting at me

[Damper]

That I would love to see, when FA has b***ered off to Ferrari.

Alternatively, put them all in 1970's, 1000cc Ford Fiesta's, with bald radials, around a damp Brands Hatch Indy and find out who's the Daddy!

[lowndes888]

Great day for Sauber, idiot Button punted Heidfeld, then Hamilton gets in Kubica's line, then Robert gets a penalty.

[File 1993]

I agree with you mate, that is so frustrating to give someone that penalty. I mean, just look at the conditions on the track!!! No one is able to drive normally even Hamilton him self, and they punish that. I think someone from the "outside" like we are should be a director (is he a director? Max Mosley?) and get things sorted out like they should be.

[lowndes888]

On the other hand, did anyone notice the short Japanese marshalls?

When Webber crashed, one of them tried to jump the fence twice, but couldn't:roflmao:

[Raikku]

On the other hand, did anyone notice the short Japanese marshalls?

When Webber crashed, one of them tried to jump the fence twice, but couldn't:roflmao:

Yeah, they're short... in many ways, how often you see Japanese men in pornmovies...


But on other hand that shortness makes Asian women so cute...

[Damper]

On the other hand, did anyone notice the short Japanese marshalls?

When Webber crashed, one of them tried to jump the fence twice, but couldn't:roflmao:

Lowndes888, well spotted!

Next week the FIA will announce that the average height of all marshals, medics and ancilliary track-side personnel is measured before each race. The height of barriers will then be adjusted accordingly. This, in turn, will then mean that where barriers are lower, and more of a danger, a speed restriction will be enforced!

BUT DON'T WORRY, it will mean more overtaking! and a better spectator sport !!!

[Revvin]

The problem with F1 is that the drivers are not allowed to race properly: Kubica bumped into hamilton (who could just look in his bloody mirrors and give some space)

In perfect conditions rear view visibilty so poor it hardly makes it worth having mirrors, in the conditions at Fuji he cold have looked in his mirrors all he liked but all he would have seen is a wall of spray.

[lowndes888]

Lowndes888, well spotted!

Next week the FIA will announce that the average height of all marshals, medics and ancilliary track-side personnel is measured before each race. The height of barriers will then be adjusted accordingly. This, in turn, will then mean that where barriers are lower, and more of a danger, a speed restriction will be enforced!

BUT DON'T WORRY, it will mean more overtaking! and a better spectator sport !!!

Wait...are you serious?:confused:

[Revvin]

Dajiro Katoh (RIP) got thrown into the wall at Suzuka through the gravel trap at last chicane because he was armed out (ausgehebelt) and died there . It indeed is different if the rider falls from bike. tarmac provides high grip for tires but unfortunately not to leather clothes when thrown from bike.

I have not seen that incident but your example appears to back what I have already said about gravel traps if he just went through the gravel and into the wall, car or bikes either skip across them or dig in. Another example would be Schumacher at Silverstone, he may not have broken his leg had there been a tarmac run off instead of skipping over gravel.

I wonder that my Hockenheim comment didnt made you to respond though. It is the very best place to show how crap these tarmac run offs work in todays 4-wheel racing. First corner (Nordkurve) is as bad too :down:

Thats a situation where the marshalls should be penalising drivers, if they consistantly cut corners or run a wider line and make use of tarmax that is not part of the track then they get penalised. Better to have that situation and have a safer corner with a tarmac run-off if a crash does happen.

[RKipker]

Hamilton is the most worthless champion in the history of F1. Again FIA screwed Ferrari by not letting them know that they had to use monsoon tires in the race. They received the e-mail when the race was already on.

What a joke this "sport" is, I´ve watched F1´s for 15 years but it´s over now. Perhaps I will be tempted next year but I doubt it.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!

[Kongo]

Hamilton is the most worthless champion in the history of F1.

:uhm::nono:
the root to all discussions is the fact that never before a rookie got a top cars seat anyway.
I for one often wondered how a Senna,Schumacher or Prost would have done in their rookie season in a top seat. The last time i wondered this was when Glock was Rookie Of The Year in champcar.

Exactly. He's a rookie and he rocks and it kicking ass!
But in this modern day and age, everyone has a "Yeah whatever you are I'm better than you / this persons better than you" attidude anyways.

I say he rules, and came from Go-Karting too. Hat's off!

[Revvin]

In perfect conditions rear view visibilty so poor it hardly makes it worth having mirrors, in the conditions at Fuji he cold have looked in his mirrors all he liked but all he would have seen is a wall of spray.

I'd also like to say that this is not a view based on being a fan of Hamilton as I'm not although I do admire what he has achieved this year but I'm also very impressed with Kubica too, I like his racing style and his down to earth demeanour but in this instance I agree with the marshalls that he was at fault in the incident at Fuji.

[Wee Scot]

I'd also like to say that this is not a view based on being a fan of Hamilton as I'm not although I do admire what he has achieved this year but I'm also very impressed with Kubica too, I like his racing style and his down to earth demeanour but in this instance I agree with the marshalls that he was at fault in the incident at Fuji.

In the post-race interviews (top three), Hamilton said his mirrors were fogged and his faceshield was fogged, so he couldn't see behind him. It was the same for everyone. Heiki said the same about his battle with Kimi: he couldn't see him but knew he was there. But when the interviewer then asked Hamilton if he was taking responsibility for the incident with Kubica, he said no, that Robert should not have taken such a risk at that corner, that he could have waited and passed him on the straight. Both McLarens were VERY light on fuel starting the race and put in a LOT of fuel at their first stops, so they were quite sluggish to driver early in that second stint.

I can see Hamilton's point, but I also think it was a racing incident and that since it didn't put Lewis out of the race, Kubica shouldn't have been penalized.

[redi]

What a race, the F1 organisers really need to find a way of soaking the tracks before each race. Wet races always provide more action than dry races.
There's an easier way: remove the wings from the cars :)

[Spookey]

A bit of background on Lewis (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOI-ELUE0g)

[rasfigjohn]

Another funny Email story this year... the Email sent by the FIA to the teams saying that they had to use extreme wet tires and that Ferrari received one hour after the other teams and after the race start.
The thing is: even without FIA orders what where they thinking when they decided to put intermediate tires to both cars? Even on my tv it was obvious that the weather wouldn't change and the track would not dry.
That 2007 Constructor Championship was really cheap.
I would have given it to Spyker...

[Wee Scot]

what where they thinking when they decided to put intermediate tires to both cars?

I had the same thought: who was the idiot at Ferrari who decided to put on intermediates?

BTW, even though Dan Gurney was a Grand Prix Legend, I prefer your new avatar. That car will look GREAT blasting around Basse-Terre! :D

[RKipker]

I can see Hamilton's point, but I also think it was a racing incident and that since it didn't put Lewis out of the race, Kubica shouldn't have been penalized.

Even though hamilton did spin, even if he would have been damaged, I believe this in the conditions, was a racing incident and the drive through was totally unfair. I think it was good aggressive dring by Robert :up:

[Revvin]

I had the same thought: who was the idiot at Ferrari who decided to put on intermediates?


It wasn't intermediates it was wet weather tyres as oppossed to the 'monsoon' extreme weather tyre the teams were supposedley told to put on the cars.

[rasfigjohn]

It wasn't intermediates it was wet weather tyres as oppossed to the 'monsoon' extreme weather tyre the teams were supposedley told to put on the cars.

Ok ... yes .. maybe so it's just half extremely stupid... :D

[Lunsmann]

Webber was justified to be angry - some of the comments here make it look like he was the only one trying to warm his tyres & brakes.

I saw everyone doing this - LH often backing up the others then accellerate away then backing up again.

When Vettell hit Webber LH was right on top of SC, the entire field was right on top of everyone else. What I saw prior to accident was LH brake, followed by Webber brake, then Vettell hit Webber.

In fact LH was more dangerous because he had best visibility and knew the rest had almost no visibility - so LH should have driven more consistent and responsible behind SC (as he controls the pace behind SC)

The solution would be to BAN all accellerate & brake manouvers to warm tyres and brakes - allow weaving only at constant speed when conditions are so bad.

I was very upset that my local TV station cut their transmision as soon as the race ended - didn't even show the podium or any after race interviews. Bah they claim to be the home of motorsport (Imparja) FFS if it's not football they just don't give a damn.

I thought Button was doing well early on - without a front wing.

[washington96]

When Vettell hit Webber LH was right on top of SC, the entire field was right on top of everyone else. What I saw prior to accident was LH brake, followed by Webber brake, then Vettell hit Webber.

I thought Button was doing well early on - without a front wing.

The reason LH was so close to the SC was because MW was bunching him up and was trying to limit the space LH had to warm his tyres, brakes etc. Good tactic in good weather, but you really had to factor in the conditions on Sunday and in those conditions that tactic was always going to be risky. If it had worked then he would have been applauded for it, but as it didn't he also has to take some of the responsibility for that also.

As for the Kubica incident, I like RK and I don't think we've seen the best of him yet, but I have to say that at no point in that move did he ever look like he was going to overtake LH. He was too far back, went in too deep and had no chance of getting past.

The only thing I can think of was that he thought LH had gone a lot wider than he had. If he had been a bit smarter RK would have ensured that he let LH get away first and retake his place. That way he may not have incurred the drive through penalty. Once he gained a place from bumping LH off he was always going to get penalised.

But with the conditions on Sunday these incidents where always going to happen. I don't think the FIA should have done anything more than give these drivers a warning and told RK to let LH retake his place on the track.

And yes Button was brilliant at driving around the track without a front wing. Just goes to show how good he is in the wet. As they say the weather is a great leveller in F1 and that's the conditions that raw talent shines through.

[Roger]

Spot on Washington :up:

[Lunsmann]

The reason LH was so close to the SC was because MW was bunching him up and was trying to limit the space LH had to warm his tyres, brakes etc. Good tactic in good weather, but you really had to factor in the conditions on Sunday and in those conditions that tactic was always going to be risky. If it had worked then he would have been applauded for it, but as it didn't he also has to take some of the responsibility for that also.

.


I will have to agree with you, a point well made. I was also disappointed for Vettell as he was doing an exceptional job.

[snowy]

Hamilton is the most worthless champion in the history of F1. Again FIA screwed Ferrari by not letting them know that they had to use monsoon tires in the race. They received the e-mail when the race was already on.

What a joke this "sport" is, I´ve watched F1´s for 15 years but it´s over now. Perhaps I will be tempted next year but I doubt it.


Hehehe :roflmao: spinning in your grave with your Ferrari flexy floor. :cry:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion is that you are biased and have poor judgement.

[Wee Scot]

Button was brilliant at driving around the track without a front wing. Just goes to show how good he is in the wet. As they say the weather is a great leveller in F1 and that's the conditions that raw talent shines through.

Yes, Button earned back a lot of respect for his performances (Q and race) in Japan. It would be nice to see him get Alonso's seat at McLaren next year, but the word in the paddock seems to be that there'll be a Heikki-Fernando exchange. Judging from Heikki's equally impressive performance in the wet (with a Renault set up for dry conditions!), that might even be a net gain for McLaren! :p :D

[speedrsr]

Oh of course, especailly seeing Heikki pull through with a second place against a fellow fin and also with no wing in front. He's been my golden boy ever since GP2 and now he's got his first podium. I'm just still so excited for him, even though the race is over. Button did alos drive an amazing race for honda!

[willowjoe]

But the pint is, the LH - Kubica duel was Kubica's fault.
FA - Vettel duel, was FA's fault. He suddenly steered a bit strange into the corner what Vettel couldn't know.

kubica hamilton duel? It's all about Massa and Kubica at the end. Massa clearly is an excellent driver and future world champ. As is Kubica. But Kubica should be in touring cars and then when he tries to make a perfectly good move against a slower car the fat-assed jerks of the FIA (max moseley) won't penalise him for good racing.

[Andy77]

...........................
Thats a situation where the marshalls should be penalising drivers, if they consistantly cut corners or run a wider line and make use of tarmax that is not part of the track then they get penalised. Better to have that situation and have a safer corner with a tarmac run-off if a crash does happen.

HAHA ....... seriously, who penalized drivers at the FIA-GT 24h of Spa for cutting Blanchimont or Eau Rouge ?

[Andy77]

Hehehe :roflmao: spinning in your grave with your Ferrari flexy floor. :cry:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion is that you are biased and have poor judgement.


could your opinion base on being black for any chance ? - coz damn whites dont like blacks anyway ?

[Gaiajohan]

HAHA ....... seriously, who penalized drivers at the FIA-GT 24h of Spa for cutting Blanchimont or Eau Rouge ?

I think he means WTCC for example.:)

[Andy77]

the wtcc is one of the few championships which somehow kept wheel to wheel racing where even bumpin is allowed at decent levels

[lowndes888]

the wtcc is one of the few championships which somehow kept wheel to wheel racing where even bumpin is allowed at decent levels

Forgetting BTCC? Although the bumpin' is highly overdone:roflmao:

[Revvin]

HAHA ....... seriously, who penalized drivers at the FIA-GT 24h of Spa for cutting Blanchimont or Eau Rouge ?

As I said its up to the marshalls/race directors to penalise drivers.

[Andy77]

still i do not agree on rather safe circuits. wide tarmaced run offs dont make it safer they turn the drivers on to put em to their ideal line. as the 24h of spa spotted very well the drivers will take the slightest opportunity to use the tarmaced run offs too. and as soon someone sees that it is decided to be the 'safer line'.
simple thing you may guess.

It aint at all. The drivers would be way less risky if they are forced to an ideal line between gravel traps. give a driver space and he/she will use it surely.

[Gaiajohan]

Forgetting BTCC? Although the bumpin' is highly overdone:roflmao:

Especially by Jason Plato..

Or NASCAR

[lowndes888]

Especially by Jason Plato..

Or NASCAR

NOOOOOOOO don't mention NASCAR


I hear them coming....:( J.J and J.G. fans:p

[Andy77]

NOOOOOOOO don't mention NASCAR


I hear them coming....:( J.J and J.G. fans:p

I heard of the farce to keep the cs hopes of a couple drivers alive at kansas

it is just like f1 these days

[Revvin]

still i do not agree on rather safe circuits. wide tarmaced run offs dont make it safer they turn the drivers on to put em to their ideal line.

Tarmac makes the tracks safer, if the drivers bend the rules by not using the actual track then they should be penalised as they would be if they broke other rules.

as the 24h of spa spotted very well the drivers will take the slightest opportunity to use the tarmaced run offs too. and as soon someone sees that it is decided to be the 'safer line'.
simple thing you may guess.

It aint at all. The drivers would be way less risky if they are forced to an ideal line between gravel traps. give a driver space and he/she will use it surely.

All it takes is a clear warning from the race director before the race that they will be penalising drivers who use the tarmac area's - its that simple, it was done in F1 a few years ago at one track that had a chicane remodelled that was being abused in practice by the drivers. If they do ignore the race director then once a few stop-go penalties are handed out you can bet your bottom dollar the teams will be on the radio to the drivers to tell them to watch their lines. The alternative is going back to gravel and watching more drivers potentially maimed and killed as they skip across the gravel traps because the tarmac was removed in the name of entertainment.

[washington96]

could your opinion base on being black for any chance ? - coz damn whites dont like blacks anyway ?

I think his comment is based on fact.

I think your comment was completely unnecessary and severly lacking in the thinking department.

As for bumping cars, F1 cars are not built for that like touring cars are. A side on collision in touring cars results in a scraped door and a missing mirror. The same incident in F1 results in a broken wheel arm and a retirement.

The tarmac runoffs are here to stay and it's clear now that the gravel traps were a mistake as they didn't slow the car down at all before it reached the scene of the accident. Like it or not thats the way it is. Entertainment is one thing, but safety for the drivers has to be paramount.

[Roger]

could your opinion base on being black for any chance ? - coz damn whites dont like blacks anyway ?

No personal attacks on other members - you have a warning

[Wee Scot]

could your opinion base on being black for any chance ? - coz damn whites dont like blacks anyway ?

What are you playing at, here? Are you really that stupid, or did you just accidentally cross the line to race bating? Hamilton's performance this year is unprecedented and worthy of great respect without considering the fact that he also broke the F1 "color barrier." It is wrong for you to suggest that there is any bias in celebrating the hard-earned success of someone of your own race. :mad:

[rasfigjohn]

I think his comment is based on fact.

I think your comment was completely unnecessary and severly lacking in the thinking department.


Yes... Snowy's a little bit more subtle than that.
We can have discussions about Hamilton without speaking of racism... This is not a black and white thing...
This is a grey/red thing... :D

[Mike45]

You mean like this gaiajohan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGIDianPBBw

[Kongo]

could your opinion base on being black for any chance ? - coz damn whites dont like blacks anyway ?

I have lots of black friends and I'm white! :nono:
Lets not bring race into these things please, we all bleed red blood.

[rickylix]

I have lots of black friends and I'm white! :nono:
Lets not bring race into these things please, we all bleed red blood.

well put! i see it as lewis is a great young driver with an exceptional car. he has plenty of racing experience and when you get it right(as mclaren mercedes has) youve got an unbeatable combo..
now, im not a major LH fan, but i admire and respect what he has done and as a fan of F1, you just cant deny the talent..
now i am a Nico Rosberg and Nelson Piquet Jr fan and i can guarantee you, if either of them have comparable equipment to what Lewis has next year, then game on!!

until then, congrats to Lewis on his road to the championship. easily one of the best seasons in a long time..

[Gaiajohan]

You mean like this gaiajohan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGIDianPBBw

Yes, he's a stupid asshole. :) That's not racing..:mad:

[Revvin]

Yes, he's a stupid asshole. :) That's not racing..:mad:

Youtube is just full of more examples of his racing <cough> 'style' :)

[Kongo]

well put! i see it as lewis is a great young driver with an exceptional car. he has plenty of racing experience and when you get it right(as mclaren mercedes has) youve got an unbeatable combo..
now, im not a major LH fan, but i admire and respect what he has done and as a fan of F1, you just cant deny the talent..
now i am a Nico Rosberg and Nelson Piquet Jr fan and i can guarantee you, if either of them have comparable equipment to what Lewis has next year, then game on!!

until then, congrats to Lewis on his road to the championship. easily one of the best seasons in a long time..

Well lets put it this way, if he wins he makes history as the first rookie to win in debut. That cannot be denied.
Still, until my dad pointed it out (in a non racist way of course) I didn't even know he was black! See, I looked past his race right off (but of course, not his winning race LOL! that being many), he speeks so well, not that any that don't are wrong. Basically I mean I didnt even have the racial switch engaged I mean, he is one of my kind after all (a human being). :)


"A doorbell rings at 3am but i don't get out of bed.
I hear people screaming, see the fire burning, and hear the words that are said.

They say: 'Hey Mr. Wooten, were gonna start shootin', unless you stick with your own kind'.
But if were all human beings, I know what that means, why don't you make up your mind?"

That there is the first part of the first verse on "All I do Is cry" but Victor Wooten, and as you can tell, he's black, the fire being from the KKK. Jus read those lyrics and feel the power. See, I take inspo from black people too, shock horror! :D

[Lunsmann]

The colour of a mans skin does not "make the man" what he does with his life, how he treats those less fortunate than himself - that is what determines who a man is.

skin colour is a fraction of one percent difference in DNA. besides it is a scientific fact that there is no such thing as black or white skin (except in the case of an albino - which is a medical condition) there is only variations of brown.

before you ask - I was born and raised in South Africa - my parents migrated to Australia when I was 16 in 1982. My Grandfather was jailed in 1964 and was released in 1980 - he was a communist.

sorry for being soooo off topic. :o

[Dzul]

So, back to the topic... Hamilton's driving under scrutiny:

> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62978

[rasfigjohn]

So, back to the topic... Hamilton's driving under scrutiny:

> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62978


Yes... that Youtube video is interesting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hWIfBkVQUk )
Maybe it would be fair to penalize Hamilton too... considering that Vettel got a penalty. Or maybe it would be even fairer not to penalize Vettel and say it's a race incident with mutual responsibility...
I don't know.
The weather conditions were awful and the stewards don't drive F1 cars in these conditions.
But Max Webber did. And he said it was Hamilton's fault...
Ok... I'm confused :confused:
:D

[Spad]

Hamilton took a different line through the corner as is his right...

It should of been down to Webber to watch what he was doing and also Vettel should of been looking where he was going. Not at Hamilton. For Vettel the car immediately in front of him should of been his concern not Hamilton.

Imagine if you had a road accident and a police officer came over to you and asked what happened and you told him you were looking at a nice young lady in a car on the other side of the road and you slammed into the car in front...he'd probably do you for driving without due care and attention...

Plus Webber is nothing more than a whinge arse. That's all he seems to do. It was Vettels fault for not keeping his eyes where they should of been...

[GEISHA]

Justice shall be done, it is now in the hand of the judges.
I've seen the you tube footage and I must say this Hamilton move may cost him very dear.

I must (constantly) add that I do not side with any team, driver or organization relating to the
noble soap series of F1.

[rasfigjohn]

Vettel said: "I was sure Hamilton was retiring, he seemed to have no power any longer, but by the time I looked back, I was already in Mark's rear end."
Lol... that's a bit stupid... always look in front!!
I can imagine the kid "oh my god Hamilton is retiring, I could win that race... Oh my God ... Oh my God."... That's probably that very moment when Mark Webber also excited by this vomits in his helmet (can you imagine that? :D)... and probably that Sebastian wets his wet pants even more.
And BAM!

We can imagine that Hamilton starts on the 12th or 13th position in China and then gets slammed in T1 by... well... Mark Webber...
Alonso could be world champion because of Red Bull and Toro Rosso.... that would be funny. I hate these 100% advertising teams.

[Spad]

I can imagine the kid "oh my god Hamilton is retiring, I could win that race... Oh my God ... Oh my God."... That's probably that very moment when Mark Webber also excited by this vomits in his helmet (can you imagine that? :D)... and probably that Sebastian wets his wet pants even more.
And BAM!

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Should Mark "Whinger" Webber been racing if he was ill? Saying that tho he's an Aussie and they're all in the mad "go for it" brigade :)

Still at then end of the day Vettel shudda been admiring Webbers arse and not Hamiltons....

[rasfigjohn]

BTW... Bernie always makes Youtube take F1 videos out of their site... why is this one still there? :cool:

[GEISHA]

I hate these 100% advertising teams.

So just must hate a lot of F1 teams then , like JPS and Gold Leaf Team Lotus,
Marlboro McLaren and BRM, Ferrari Ferrari, and so on and so forth.
Tell me were you really awake when you wrote this.
How about banning the advertising organisers of a GP like Fuji Television
GP of Japan.
BTW Those who seed hatred crop the violence.

More Hamilton footage is here:
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w192/GEISHA222/4p4fyc1.gif

[snowy]

Lewis was right on top of the pace car going into the right hander, possibly because Bernt had slowed and possibly because Mark had been running too close and not giving Lewis any room to breath which is my reading of the situation. Racing incident brought about by trying to run a race in conditions that would be unacceptably dangerous in any other known sport.

[Dzul]

race in conditions that would be unacceptably dangerous in any other known sport.

That's one nice thing about some motorsports and football, rain doesn't stop the game. :)

[rasfigjohn]

I hate these 100% advertising teams.

So just must hate a lot of F1 teams then , like JPS and Gold Leaf Team Lotus,
Marlboro McLaren and BRM, Ferrari Ferrari, and so on and so forth.
Tell me were you really awake when you wrote this.
How about banning the advertising organisers of a GP like Fuji Television
GP of Japan.
BTW Those who seed hatred crop the violence.


lol... that's very funny. And I was awake.
You should read what I wrote... "100 % advertising teams"
do you get the idea of the 100% part?
McLaren and Ferrari and BRM and Lotus F1 teams were created before advertising invaded F1 cars... I don't say there is no commercial purpose in them but that is not their only purpose.
I can understand a team created to sell cars..
But Red Bull F1 team was made to sell energy drinks and they put too much of their money in getting pitbabes on the circuits or Star wars or whatever.
I'm still awake and I stil hate those 100% advertising teams.

[Roger]

rasifigjohn - fair point. Teams like Williams & McLaren & Ferrari exist to race. Red Bull exists to promote.............Red Bull :P

But extend that a little bit..........we want to see cars racing and maybe it doesn't matter where the money comes from (within normal standards of decency ;)) - But surely you can't doubt that the teams are operating as race teams through and through - everyone is there to race hard and try to win; they just happen to have been funded by someone who wants to be seen.

But then again McLaren, Williams, Ferrari - are also funded by people who want to be seen :D

Maybe it's not so bad..............

[rasfigjohn]

Maybe it's not so bad..............

Not so bad... I just wish they put more money on the reliability of their cars.... cause we want to see cars racing... but we want to see cars finishing races and challenging each other... With their budget they could be a top team... It's such a waste.

[Roger]

Brake lights? :D

[rasfigjohn]

Brake lights? :D

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::rofl mao::roflmao::roflmao:

[RKipker]

BTW... Bernie always makes Youtube take F1 videos out of their site... why is this one still there? :cool:

F1 had youtube remove the video... and I never seen it!

However, I still have an opinion ----> :D

I don't think you can take away any points from Hamilton regardless of the findings... that race is over! However, if they feel he LH did not follow the rules in a race that was to dangerous to drive anyway, then they should penalize him 10 starting positions this weekend.

I also belive that there is some major Bias against MM and Hamilton this year! The guy will still win the championship IMHO and he will do it against all odds.... FIA screwing him, FA cheating and blocking him.... even now REDBULL after him!

[GEISHA]

I'm still awake and I stil hate those 100% advertising teams.

Maybe I should have put if in another way, believe I did not wish
to aggrevate what you said.:o

Nevertheless I have some difficulty swallowing when people say I hate Alonso/Hamilton/Schumacher/Ferrari or whatever.
If you don't like them fine by me, but hatred no.....
Never mind I won't take that away from you.;)

Benneton (where Michael Schumacher used to race a long time ago), Red Bull, Honda, Toyota, a.o., it's all branding a product they want to represent, be it that the latter 2 have something to do with cars.
Marlboro, JPS, Gold Leaf were no more than moving fag packets, the same intention, only a different approach to the name and ownership of the team, I guess.

I don't know whether sponsorship has brough all that good to F1.
I tend to be negative on that.

[Revvin]

Hamilton slowed and veered to the right to avoid hitting the back of the safety car which looked to be slowing down, Webber saw Hamilton slow down and had slowed down sufficiently to not overshoot him so if he could then why couldn't Vettel? Considering the conditions I'd perhaps not taken any action against the drivers as they were really making the best of a bad job and making sure Bernie and the owners of Fuji didn't lose any money by not going out to race.

[Damper]

Revvin is right with the point about the conditions and everyone making the best of it.
But, like I said earlier, MW created the situation by pushing LH up too close to the Safety Car! LH was on the phone about it! He was rightly voicing concerns about safety, while MW was being a complete tw@t! Then MW slags of the noob Vettel, shame on him.

[Andy77]

I apologize to everyone who either is or feels insulted by my black&white post.
Bye

[Mogget]

From what I have seen, Vettel was careless. Hamilton was nowhere near either of them.

[Kongo]

Yep and what's done is done. On with the rest race I say. :yes:

[Wee Scot]

I apologize to everyone who either is or feels insulted by my black&white post.
Bye

Classy move. Apology accepted. :up:

[lowndes888]

Yep and what's done is done

No its not Webber had a good chance for a second podium here

[Revvin]

No its not Webber had a good chance for a second podium here

Its all ifs, buts and maybes though. He was only behind Hamilton because of the safety car and to look at it from Hamilton's point of view he does say that he was on the radio to his team to ask Red Bull to get Webber to move back a little. That one clip we've seen is just not conclusive enough for me. It shows Hamilton slowing and moving to the right to avoid the back of the safety car. You also see Webber slowing right down also and maintaining position and then moments later Vettel drives into the back of him. We're not going to see much more than that clip as the TV camera's missed it so the FIA won't get to see much more either and so you could blame any one of the three drivers, Hamilton for driving slowly, Webber for pushing Hamilton too close to the back of the safety car and Vettel for the actual impact, possibly from trying to guage when Webber was about to accelerate again. Too many doubts based on what we've seen and what each driver has said - though Webber has switched from blaming one driver to the next. Just a racing incident on a track that was so badly waterlogged it was in danger of being stopped.

[Gaiajohan]

Well, my opinion:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-526638095620493384&q=hamilton+fuji&total=30&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

It seemed Hamilton braked and was retiring, I understand Vettel thought that.
Webber braked, because he isn't allowed to overtake Hamilton.

Vettel didn't watch on time, or didn't even see Webber braking, because of the rain.

So yes, imho Hamilton shouldn't have driven:
1. A different line, this line it looked like he was retiring
2. Driving that slowly, it even isn't allowed before the lights of the SC will shut, that rule was new because of M Schumacher things..

So maybe two punishments:
One for Hamilton for doing things which aren't allowed, and just plain dangerous and confusing.
One for Vettel, for possibly not having the thoughts at the racing part.

[Revvin]

While Webber gets away with allegedley driving dangerously close to a car under the safety car in extreme weather conditions? Its down to Hamilton what line he takes, as long as its on the tarmac thats his right and it looked more like he was carefully trying to make his way back around the corner after braking and swinging wide to avoid the safety car. None of the drivers really handled the situation well.

[Lunsmann]

While Webber gets away with allegedley driving dangerously close to a car under the safety car in extreme weather conditions? Its down to Hamilton what line he takes, as long as its on the tarmac thats his right and it looked more like he was carefully trying to make his way back around the corner after braking and swinging wide to avoid the safety car. None of the drivers really handled the situation well.

In this case then ALL of the drivers should be penalised for driving too close in the conditions. I think it was very fortunate that there was only one incedent behind the safety car as I was commenting to my wife almost every lap about how close FA was to LH during the SC periods & how it was LH that was backing up into the following traffic to "unsettle" them. My opinion only of course.

I don't blame anyone for what happened, just making my own observations. Calling MW a whinger is a bit strong - and you may note that he has been very patient with his team all through the year as well as 2 years with Williams when their car was a bit of a dog. If anything MW has been very unlucky when it comes to reliability - as he races well.

However Flav B isn't too impressed with him as MW went to Williams when FB wanted to put him in the Reno with FA - but Williams were stronger than Reno the previous year and so in hindsight MW made his biggest mistake right there.

[Roger]

I apologize to everyone who either is or feels insulted by my black&white post.
Bye

Thank you Andy

[washington96]

What that youtube video doesn't show is Webber weaving around the track and getting so close to the back of Hamilton immediately before the incident because he was trying to limit Hamiltons space on the track behind the safety car.

For Webber to suddenly start complaining about Hamilton is a bit rich, firstly Webber played his part in the incident and was not the innocent bystander he is trying to make himself out to be and secondly on Sunday Webber blamed Vettel for the incident and didn't mention Hamilton. So what? Did he just remember it when he saw the youtube video? Or is it just a chance for Webber to get some attention?

As for Alonso remarking on the incident and saying Hamilton was at fault just says everything about the man doesn't it. This is the driver who drove through waved yellow flags and smashed into the back of another car at full speed at Interlagos a few years back.

If Hamilton gets penalised for this, then I believe the FIA will need to be investigated as they are completely biased and corrupt.

[Dzul]

I finally got to see the video (thanks Sims!) and what I notice is:

1- Nobody has time to think, everybody reacts instinctively.
2- The circuit section where it happens is curvy so nobody
can track the car that's in front of them on a straight line.
3- The rain spray from the car in front of any driver surely
was thick enough to minimize visibility beyond the car nose.
4- Hamilton is way too close to the pace car and has to take
a different line (evasive maneuvers) to avoid a collission, this
happens while he is exiting a right turn and entering a left one.
5- At this point Webber is also doing a right-left, tracking the
car in front of him (which is supposed to be Hamilton) following
the water-spray, when he suddenly realizes the water-spray he
follows is from the pace-car and then noticing Hamilton to his
right. Knowing he is NOT supposed to overtake him he brakes.
6- Vettel is following Webber perhaps too close and surely not
expecting such sudden braking and thus can't avoid crashing.

Now, screw the rules and use common sense. Hamilton is guilty of careless driving and endangering the car-train behind him because he is supposed to be LEADING the pack by sticking to the back of the pace-car, especially in such low-visibility conditions. Surely Vettel is guilty of not keeping his distance, but the reason why Webber HAD to hit the brakes was because Hamilton was NOT in front of him, where he was SUPPOSED to be. Had Hamilton kept his line he would have hit the back of the pace-car, but that's because he is driving too close to it. To avoid this kind of dumb accidents is why the rules have been laid out, especially the minimal distance behind a pace-car.

Is it fair to take away his points? Frankly, I don't care. To me is obvious that Hamilton's maneuver triggered the actions that lead to the accident between Webber and Vettel and he is to be considered as responsible as Vettel for not keeping their distance with the car in front of them. Perhaps Webber should have kept driving behind the pace-car and let Hamilton overtake him again, and then the accident wouldn't have happened, but that required a lot of thinking in a moment you don't have time to, which goes back to my very first point that nobody had time to think, everybody reacted instinctively: Hamilton tried to avoid a collision. Webber tried to stick to the rules. Vettel was too late to react. Sh!t happened. :D

[Reppu]

Enter here

http://www.marca.com/

then click where it says "Gráfico. Te explicamos paso a paso la maniobra de Hamilton ". For limited time i suppose, but there they explain it all quite clearly, for those who didn't see it.

[Dzul]

Gracias! :up: Let's hope this video can remain available a little longer. :rolleyes:

This one's funny! :D http://app5.marca.com/MarcaToons/VerVideo?codVideo=153&sb=s

[Lunsmann]

Clear as day - MW was nowhere near LH approaching that corner.

LH is responsible for the accident.

Thanks for that link.

[rasfigjohn]

Enter here

http://www.marca.com/

then click where it says "Gráfico. Te explicamos paso a paso la maniobra de Hamilton ". For limited time i suppose, but there they explain it all quite clearly, for those who didn't see it.


Thanks but I try to avoid the spanish press and the british one to get information about Formula One these days. Both of them are under bad influence because of this Hamilton/Alonso thing.

[washington96]

Where does it say that Hamilton should have been directly behind the safety car at all times?? He took a different line because Webber was pushing him into the safety car. He was trying to make some space for himself on the track because Webber was being very aggresive behind him. There is nothing wrong with that.

Don't just use this video to judge what happened, but also watch what was happening immediately before the incident took place from the race footage.

Webber is the one who should have been watching where he was going. It's the drivers responsibility to watch the car in front and if he hadn't have been driving all over the back of Hamilton to bunch him up with the safety car it wouldn't have happened.

Now thats clear as day.

[rasfigjohn]

I read on this Belgian site http://www.autosports.be/module.php?name=news&id=1012 that this finnish site http://iltasanomat.fi/urheilu/uutinen.asp?id=1442419 says that Kovalainen said that his team asked him not to overtake Hamilton and to block Raikkonen...
Has anybody heard of that?
This is getting really depressing now...

[Gaiajohan]

I read on this Belgian site http://www.autosports.be/module.php?name=news&id=1012 that this finnish site http://iltasanomat.fi/urheilu/uutinen.asp?id=1442419 says that Kovalainen said that his team asked him not to overtake Hamilton and to block Raikkonen...
Has anybody heard of that?
This is getting really depressing now...

Simply why. He could make a mistake while overtaking Hamilton, so losing everything. And block Kimi because they didn't want to lose the 2nd place.

[Dzul]

Thanks but I try to avoid the spanish press and the british one to get information about Formula One these days. Both of them are under bad influence because of this Hamilton/Alonso thing.

But the video has no commentary John... :D I didn't read the note below BTW, I also think ALL national press is colourblind... :( It's becoming a huge soap-opera-style chess game man... ridiculous! :mad::mad::mad:

[rasfigjohn]

Simply why. He could make a mistake while overtaking Hamilton, so losing everything. And block Kimi because they didn't want to lose the 2nd place.

This makes sense but most people are not as simple as this... What I see on french forums is the incredible story of an agreement between Renault and McLaren... non agression and protection so they can sell Alonso for 2008 ...:eek:

[Mogget]

Now, screw the rules and use common sense. Hamilton is guilty of careless driving and endangering the car-train behind him because he is supposed to be LEADING the pack by sticking to the back of the pace-car, especially in such low-visibility conditions. Surely Vettel is guilty of not keeping his distance, but the reason why Webber HAD to hit the brakes was because Hamilton was NOT in front of him, where he was SUPPOSED to be. Had Hamilton kept his line he would have hit the back of the pace-car, but that's because he is driving too close to it. To avoid this kind of dumb accidents is why the rules have been laid out, especially the minimal distance behind a pace-car.

Why didn't Webber make sure that Hamilton really was stopping before almost overtaking him through that corner ?

Why did he assume that Hamilton was retiring ?

Why was Vettel right up Webber's arse ?

Why weren't either Webber or Vettel watching the car in front closely enough ? If Webber had been awake, then he would have had plenty of time to slow down when he saw Hamilton on the right side of the track. As for Vettel, he was just plain careless.


If this incident results in Hamilton losing points and a win, then it will reduce this year's championship (the most exciting one in YEARS, I might add) to a complete farce.

[rasfigjohn]

But the video has no commentary John... :D

Well on the top of the animation the title says "asi fue la maniobra illegal de Hamilton"... that Reppu could translate for you... but Illegal is the same word in english and in french...
Stating that the maneuver is illegal is a bad start...

[rasfigjohn]

Mark Webber: "Away from today's events, I would just like to make it clear that, although I criticised Hamilton's driving in yesterday's FIA Press Conference, at no time have I made any official complaint about anyone's driving following Sunday's Japanese Grand Prix"
quoted from RedBull Press release...
Why didn't he make an official complaint?? He blamed Hamilton just for the fun of it? :mad:

[Dzul]

Well on the top of the animation the title says "asi fue la maniobra illegal de Hamilton"... that Reppu could translate for you... but Illegal is the same word in english and in french...
Stating that the maneuver is illegal is a bad start...

Thanks but I can read spanish, I am mexican (and dutch) so, no problem there luckily! ;)
That "illegal" on the title is what stopped me from reading the article, it's already biased. :(

Why didn't he make an official complaint?? He blamed Hamilton just for the fun of it? :mad:

I think he is just trying to avoid getting splashed by the McLaren/Ferrari issue... if he
makes an official complaint he dips into the mess. The non-official complaint (rant) is a
very understandable barking from the frustration of being taken out of his podium chance.

My opinion though... :rolleyes:

[Revvin]

Where does it say that Hamilton should have been directly behind the safety car at all times?? He took a different line because Webber was pushing him into the safety car. He was trying to make some space for himself on the track because Webber was being very aggresive behind him. There is nothing wrong with that.

Don't just use this video to judge what happened, but also watch what was happening immediately before the incident took place from the race footage.

Webber is the one who should have been watching where he was going. It's the drivers responsibility to watch the car in front and if he hadn't have been driving all over the back of Hamilton to bunch him up with the safety car it wouldn't have happened.

Now thats clear as day.

Well stated, its up to Hamilton to take whatever line he see's fit. He went right while braking to avoid the safety car and as the commentatorswere saying at the time the track was changing all the time due to the rain, the line he took the previous lap may not have been so good at the next because of water building up on the track. For Hamilton to avoid any championship threatening penalty he now needs to come forward with copies of radio correspondence with his team regarding Webber driving too close behind him. F1 loses credibility by the day with all this nonsense going on. Of course Bernie wil llove having plenty of column inches being given to F1 I just hope how much he see's F1 is becomming the WWE of motorsport.

[Dzul]

I just hope how much he see's F1 is becomming the WWE of motorsport.

LMAO! :roflmao: ... but kinda true. :(

[Wee Scot]

F1 loses credibility by the day with all this nonsense going on. Of course Bernie wil llove having plenty of column inches being given to F1 I just hope how much he see's F1 is becomming the WWE of motorsport.

That's it exactly, now! Like I said before, Barnum & Bailey... :(

[rasfigjohn]

There is a headtitle at autosport.com that says that Hamilton escapes penalty ...

[snowy]

I believe that there is not going to be a penalty imposed according to a semi reliable source ie the BBC. :drink:

Obviously we've both been on tenterhooks! :)

[Wee Scot]

Can you believe the OFFICIAL F1 website ran a POLL asking readers whether Lewis ought to be penalized? (Lower lefthand corner of homepage)

http://www.formula1.com/

A bit inappropriate, don't you think?

[rasfigjohn]

Can you believe the OFFICIAL F1 website ran a POLL asking readers whether Lewis ought to be penalized? (Lower lefthand corner of homepage)

http://www.formula1.com/

A bit inappropriate, don't you think?

Yes.. a bit inappropriate for an official site... but i'm relieved there is no sanction against LH nor Vettel...

[kenpat]

check this out
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19749.html

[KieranF1]

Lewis has no punishment.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63039

[Dzul]

There is a headtitle at autosport.com that says that Hamilton escapes penalty ...

> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63039

So... let's move on ;) ...wait and see what China has on stock for us! :roflmao:

[snowy]

Kenpat "Check this out" Whatever it was it's gone now.

[Reppu]

It was pretty clear LH would not be punished, would he be deserving the punishment or not. Not after all the protection he has been receiving during the entire season from FIA. I honestly believe this title was meant for LH since mid-season, and not only thanks to his incredible performance as a rookie. FIA is a circus, now more than ever. Decisions are taken for political reasons and not technical ones. Very sad.

(the statement above is my very own opinion, as i have the right to have one)

[Dzul]

:rolleyes: LOL Kieran! :D :D :D

[rasfigjohn]

It was pretty clear LH would not be punished, would he be deserving the punishment or not. Not after all the protection he has been receiving during the entire season from FIA. I honestly believe this title was meant for LH since mid-season, and not only thanks to his incredible performance as a rookie. FIA is a circus, now more than ever. Decisions are taken for political reasons and not technical ones. Very sad.

(the statement above is my very own opinion, as i have the right to have one)

So... you mean Fernando's titles in 2005 and 2006 were purely political... :D... Alonso himself said last year that it was not a sport.
And from what I heard Fernando also got some kind of protection in the Ferrari/ Mclaren affair...
I understand your bitterness but you could at least try to be fair.

[washington96]

It was pretty clear LH would not be punished, would he be deserving the punishment or not. Not after all the protection he has been receiving during the entire season from FIA. I honestly believe this title was meant for LH since mid-season, and not only thanks to his incredible performance as a rookie. FIA is a circus, now more than ever. Decisions are taken for political reasons and not technical ones. Very sad.

(the statement above is my very own opinion, as i have the right to have one)

You may have your opinion, but it's my opinion that's the daftest thing you have said so far!

On what basis do you set this theory of yours??

I'm sure Lewis loves being put before the FIA on the days running up to the race weekend as he has been a few times this year. Yeah I'm sure that really helps with his concentration before a race.

You can't make ridiculous comments then say 'hey, it's just my opinion' and not expect anybody to pull your theory apart.

It's quite clear that the FIA are not big McLaren fans so how do you think Hamilton being a McLaren driver will get any advantage from them over any other driver.

You maybe upset as you were probably hoping that FA would be back in the title race, but if anybody has had the protection of the FIA this year then it's FA. To do what he has done this year and still be in a driving seat is unbelievable.

[snowy]

To do what he has done this year and still be in a driving seat is unbelievable.

:eek: Why what's he done??? :rolleyes:

Blackmailing your team principle, ramming your teamamte off the track, sitting in your pit twiddling your thumbs? . . . It's all part of the spectacle of Formula 1. They don't call it a circus for nothing and circus' have always treated their animals cruelly. :cry:

[kenpat]

Kenpat "Check this out" Whatever it was it's gone now.

Never mind the F1 soap opera I'll get back to some real racing with your wonderful BTWC add on.
Congrats & thanks to you and Alex Koda for giving us this.

[snowy]

Off topic!!! But hey thanks for that :)

[Reppu]

He was called to testify because another team presented a reclamation. Toro Rosso in this case. My opinion is based on what happened in Hungay, where to my eyes and also to Ron Dennis eyes he caused all the mess, but only the team and FA got punished. Or what happened in Nurburgring, where the crane took him on the track forgetting about the rest of the pilots. Or what happened today where he clearly broke two rules: distance to PC and unnecessary low speed. Somehow, LH always comes out clean, no matter the mess around.

I wasn't expecting no one to take my theory down. In fact, i was expecting most voices to be against it. But that's how i see it. Like it or not, i will still support FA even if LH supporters (and FA bashers to some extent) are the majority here. If i wanted self-complacency i would go to a spanish forum you know, where the opinion trend is totally different as you may guess.

[rasfigjohn]

If i wanted self-complacency i would go to a spanish forum you know, where the opinion trend is totally different as you may guess.

Which says a lot about human nature... :(
Next year there will be a french pilot in F1... of course not in a top team but I'm already scared of how the french press will deal with that.

[Wee Scot]

He was called to testify because another team presented a reclamation. Toro Rosso in this case. My opinion is based on what happened in Hungay, where to my eyes and also to Ron Dennis eyes he caused all the mess, but only the team and FA got punished. Or what happened in Nurburgring, where the crane took him on the track forgetting about the rest of the pilots. Or what happened today where he clearly broke two rules: distance to PC and unnecessary low speed. Somehow, LH always comes out clean, no matter the mess around.

I wasn't expecting no one to take my theory down. In fact, i was expecting most voices to be against it. But that's how i see it. Like it or not, i will still support FA even if LH supporters (and FA bashers to some extent) are the majority here. If i wanted self-complacency i would go to a spanish forum you know, where the opinion trend is totally different as you may guess.

I, for one, am glad you've stayed with us! You are entitled to your opinions and we all enjoy debating these issues ...respectfully.

I agree Hamilton has been fortunate in a few cases. In Hungary he really won the lottery, and to have FA crash out and score no points in Japan while he avoided disaster in his collision with Kubica and managed not to get punted behind the SC was really good luck. But the rest of the season he's had his share of bad luck (for examples, puncture in Q at Nurburgring and during recent race). As for the crane incident at the Nurburgring, he's the only one who stayed in his car with the engine still running! The other drivers who went off at that corner all climbed out and hopped the wall, as far as I remember. So like all great drivers, Lewis has made a lot of his good luck by being ready to take advantage of his opportunities.

[Revvin]

It was pretty clear LH would not be punished, would he be deserving the punishment or not. Not after all the protection he has been receiving during the entire season from FIA. I honestly believe this title was meant for LH since mid-season, and not only thanks to his incredible performance as a rookie. FIA is a circus, now more than ever. Decisions are taken for political reasons and not technical ones. Very sad.

(the statement above is my very own opinion, as i have the right to have one)

Utterly ridiculous but we've gone over much of what you posted there in other threads and you've been unable to produce credible evidence to back your claims

[racerm]

I have lots of black friends and I'm white! :nono:
Lets not bring race into these things please, we all bleed red blood.

You know what, when we are all colored with exhaust smoke we are all the same color! Lets keep this crap out of the discussion. If Lewis doesn't mention it (and he would have the right to) why should we! Although I am an FA fan as well, when I saw his behavior with the pit incident and Spa I was very dissappointed, he became what he most disliked about Schumacer.

If you review the races, it not about pref treatment towards Hamilton, he just drove his behind off to get to where he got. But throughout my F1 viewing life I have noticed profound favor toward Ferrari in almost all matters that involve them, unless their actions where so egregious that they couldn't be glossed over, like the Schumaucher incident at Monaco against Fernando. This isn't Nascar but the politics are getting there.

[Wee Scot]

If Lewis doesn't mention it (and he would have the right to) why should we!

Excellent point, racerm.

[Wee Scot]

Excellent point, racerm.

And see post #165. He apologized. :up:

[GEISHA]

The funny thing of this all is that Vettel's punishment has been erased.
A boo-boo reprimand is all that is left.

I think it has been done to support and justify today's decision of the investigation.
Or maybe: Toro Rosso silence; be satisfied your driver has been cleared of running into Webber's car.

So FIA's boundless wisdom has developed from punishing Vettel alone, into spotting a connection between what happened in front of Webber and behind Webber.
Logically they had either to punish or to clear drivers at stake.
Webber pulled the shortest string. But he is a hell of a whino isn’t he???

Okay the sky has been cleared nothing has really happened and the
incident is history.

[snowy]

Perhaps he shouldn't have got the penalty under the extreme conditions of the race :uhm:

[GEISHA]

Perhaps he shouldn't have got the penalty under the extreme conditions of the race

Perhaps F1 should adopt the judging and pointscoring system of the Eurovision Song Contest.
Like Ireland giving 12 points and support to England,
San Marino giving 12 points to Italy, Sweden giving 12 points to Finland,
Portugal giving 12 points to Spain vice versa, and so on and so forth.

It won't change the outcome of the championship, but it would make it a lot more transparent.:D

[Roger]

It'd never work GEISHA - Estonia don't have a team..................:D

[GEISHA]

It'd never work GEISHA - Estonia don't have a team......

Bugger, another of my luminous ideas in the dustbin, when will my
genius ever be recognized:o

[washington96]

Or what happened in Nurburgring, where the crane took him on the track forgetting about the rest of the pilots. Or what happened today where he clearly broke two rules: distance to PC and unnecessary low speed. Somehow, LH always comes out clean, no matter the mess around.

Well that just says it all doesn't it. You will notice if you re-watch the Nurburgring race that Hamilton was the only one who hadn't damaged his car at that point. That's why he was lifted onto the track. It's within the rules that if your car is in a dangerous place then it can be returned back to the track. That's the FIA's rules so why not use them?

He obviously didn't break the rules behind the pacecar. Was he within 5 car lengths? If you are including the track width then probably not, but if you are basing that on track position then he probaby was or near as dammit. Unnecessary slow speed? As I have already pointed out, he slowed down to get some space between himself and the Safety Car because Webber was driving up his tailpipe.

[Kongo]

No its not Webber had a good chance for a second podium here

Shoulda, woulda, coulda....and didn't.
What's done is done exactly.
I coulda got 4th and 3rd on second race @ Bathurst but I didn't.:yes:

You know what, when we are all colored with exhaust smoke we are all the same color! Lets keep this crap out of the discussion. If Lewis doesn't mention it (and he would have the right to) why should we! Although I am an FA fan as well, when I saw his behavior with the pit incident and Spa I was very dissappointed, he became what he most disliked about Schumacer.

If you review the races, it not about pref treatment towards Hamilton, he just drove his behind off to get to where he got. But throughout my F1 viewing life I have noticed profound favor toward Ferrari in almost all matters that involve them, unless their actions where so egregious that they couldn't be glossed over, like the Schumaucher incident at Monaco against Fernando. This isn't Nascar but the politics are getting there.

:):up:

Personally, I jus watch it. Leave the politics to the dudes who matter as whatever we say doesn't matter anyways cause it doesn't concern us.
It's like saying "what's my business is my business" right?

[Reppu]

Utterly ridiculous but we've gone over much of what you posted there in other threads and you've been unable to produce credible evidence to back your claims

Evidence? Does anyone here have insider info on what's going on inside the teams or inside FIA decision chambers? This is a discussion forum, so i will keep expressing my opinions. I don't care much about what you consider ridiculous or not.

[Kongo]

Really at the end of the day, we know jack s**t. :D

[Revvin]

Evidence? Does anyone here have insider info on what's going on inside the teams or inside FIA decision chambers? This is a discussion forum, so i will keep expressing my opinions. I don't care much about what you consider ridiculous or not.

Well you keep seeing monsters under the bed then and tell the world how everyone is out to get Alonso :rolleyes: