Interesting sales data

[David Wright]

Shift is currently topping the all-platform UK game charts.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/need-for-speed-shift-tops-uk-chart

What is interesting is the breakdown by platform.

52% PS3
44% XBox360
5% PC and PSP

These figures are rounded to the nearest % but as a result don't add up to 100%.

PS3 fans will no doubt be pleased that the PS3 is beating the XBox360.

What is staggering though is the figure for PC sales. If Shift had bombed in the PC charts this might explain it but while its not done quite as well as on console its still entered at No.4, not bad really and Dirt isn't even in the top 10.

http://www.elspa.com/?c=/charts/uk.jsp&ct=27

[morbias]

Dirt 2 isn't even out yet for the PC :)

[David Wright]

Dirt 2 isn't even out yet for the PC :)

Ah that explains that then :)

[HeliosDoubleSix]

I imagine the PC Sales of Shift are relatively poor as it would only be playable if you had a Steering Wheel or Controller, added to the fact that PC's are of course now a minority when it comes to console level capable rigs... oh and it's easy as hell to steal the games. So I guess 5% after all that is pretty good?

[spin_doctor]

When you consider that no real units-sold numbers were shown with this breakdown you have to wonder about it, given the current world economy. Which is not to mention lackluster PR given the PC release versus the almost breathless hype applied to the "box" platform market.

[Brainbug]

5% PC.
damn, that´s just 5% sim-racers (simple said). not a good fact for futher product-orientation related to sims.

not good at all. now just answer me the question why should EA care about sim-racers in the future and do not make shift 2 more arcadish and optimised for gamepads.

damn consoles i say. :angry:

[Empty Box]

5% PC.
damn, that´s just 5% sim-racers (simple said). not a good fact for futher product-orientation related to sims.

not good at all. now just answer me the question why should EA care about sim-racers in the future and do not make shift 2 more arcadish and optimised for gamepads.

damn consoles i say. :angry:

Actually, no. There are ALOT more sim racers than those who have Shi(f)t. Personally, I won't allow that anywhere near the PC, I'll pick it up on the 360 if I feel the urge (And it feels as it will be a pass for me, played it, didn't like it.), and I know that there are several others in the same boat. It was designed for consoles, so I'll play it there. There is a much bigger market for a true sim than what Shi(f)t is - which is a psuedosim.

Get over your elitism, the consoles cant have sims days are LONG over.

And I think that it should be 15%, but that would be 101% Sales. So, lets just say 14% as that would be the only logical sense. How can you possibly have less than 100% sales? Unless that is the amount of what they have produced that has sold (as in there is another % of product sitting on shelf unsold)

[iounas]

Didn't know consoles were so dominant.. My last console was snes :D

[Brainbug]

yo, mr. empty box. u did misunderstood me.

first, i did spoke just about shift (ur funny word-play is in fact not soo funny at all btw) because EA did a big favour for us sim-racers with a gaming-title like shift to bring more folks to sim-racing. games like gtr can not do it because there is not so much marketing-money as EA is pushing into shift.

second, there is no elitism in my speak and words. show me a community that is "fine-tuning" a console-game for personal needs with mods and other file-editing. therefor in my eyes pc is still and will be the first place for sim-racers.

consoles are getting into sims either these days. i do not criticise that, i welcome this. but u have to admit that most console-players do play with a pad and not a wheel.

[David Wright]

It may be that first week sales are distorted somehow in favour of consoles. Clearly pre-orders will be a good proportion - maybe console owners are more into pre-ordering? I expected console sales to be far bigger than PC sales but not more than 19 times bigger.

I'll check the charts over the next few weeks, to see how PC and console sales hold up.

[Empty Box]

yo, mr. empty box. u did misunderstood me.

first, i did spoke just about shift (ur funny word-play that is in fact not soo funny at all btw) because EA did a big favour for us sim-racers with a gaming-title like shift to bring more folks to sim-racing. games like gtr can not do it because there is not so much marketing-money as EA is pushing into shift.

second, there is no elitism in my speak and words. but show me a comunity that is "fine-tuning" a game for personal needs with mods and other file-editing. therefor in my eyes pc is still and will be the first place for sim-racers.

consoles are getting into sims either these days. i do not criticise that, i welcome this. but u have to admit that most console-players do play with a pad and not a wheel.

Yes, and there are also plenty of people playing sims with a pad and not a wheel. Honestly, its a game either way. Honestly, I could play GTR2 with a pad (And by pad we are talking analog sticks, as that is what it is anymore. Pad's are LONG gone.) and probably be just as fast as I am with a wheel in a short period of time.

Sure I'd take a wheel, but for anything other than iRacing it isn't a necessity. Honestly, nothing Gmotor based (As Shift seems also) has come anywhere to that.

I for one would rather NOT have a mainstream "sim" - especially one where you are rewarded for smashing and crashing. Online is bad enough in a game like rF that is FAR from well known, add in a million or so wreckers, hooray! I'd rather EA step back out of the market.

And I quote you "damn consoles i say. :angry:"

No elitism? Hmmmm.

@ David - I don't think that explains. There is no way that data is correct, again, how do you not sell 100% of your copies sold? Why I think you are correct with the pre orders, something else is whack with the numbers.

[Brainbug]

...I for one would rather NOT have a mainstream "sim" - especially one where you are rewarded for smashing and crashing. Online is bad enough in a game like rF that is FAR from well known, add in a million or so wreckers, hooray! I'd rather EA step back out of the market....
for sure right u are on the fact that rewarding crashing is not sim-like. i just thought u would have realised that when u want to produce and (even more important) sell a game in "big style" u have to give the casual players some fun either. guess u have to think over some marketing strategies.

do i support such stategic thoughts? for sure not, but i can understand them.

i´m just surprised that some folks really thought that a nfs-title will be equal to gtr. nfs still is and will ever be nfs: a big seller. any big change would be non-profite for EA. related to this thought it´s more than brave from ea to bring up a nfs-title like shift, which is the most sim-like nfs till now. me just hope they will go on this way.

therefor i supported blimey/EA with my money, with the hope to the future.

[Roush9]

Yes, and there are also plenty of people playing sims with a pad and not a wheel. Honestly, its a game either way. Honestly, I could play GTR2 with a pad (And by pad we are talking analog sticks, as that is what it is anymore. Pad's are LONG gone.) and probably be just as fast as I am with a wheel in a short period of time.

Sure I'd take a wheel, but for anything other than iRacing it isn't a necessity. Honestly, nothing Gmotor based (As Shift seems also) has come anywhere to that.

I for one would rather NOT have a mainstream "sim" - especially one where you are rewarded for smashing and crashing. Online is bad enough in a game like rF that is FAR from well known, add in a million or so wreckers, hooray! I'd rather EA step back out of the market.

And I quote you "damn consoles i say. :angry:"

No elitism? Hmmmm.

@ David - I don't think that explains. There is no way that data is correct, again, how do you not sell 100% of your copies sold? Why I think you are correct with the pre orders, something else is whack with the numbers.
No other way to play a sim than with a wheel.

[Empty Box]

for sure right u are on the fact that rewarding crashing is not sim-like. i just thought u would have realised that when u want to produce and (even more important) sell a game in "big style" u have to give the casual players some fun either. guess u have to think over some marketing strategies.

do i support such stategic thoughts? for sure not, but i can understand them.

i´m just surprised that some folks really thought that a nfs-title will be equal to gtr. nfs still is and will ever be nfs: a big seller. any big change would be non-profite for EA. related to this thought it´s more than brave from ea to bring up a nfs-title like shift, which is the most sim-like nfs till now. me just hope they will go on this way.

therefor i supported blimey/EA with my money, with the hope to the future.

OHHHH Trust me I understand the marketing. But you miss one thing, and that is a mainstream sim will be naturally flawed - you simply can't cater to both groups. The only way a true sim becomes marketable is if it is so revolutionary it DEFINES the genre. Think Falcon 4.0, Flight Simulator, GPL, NR03. Yes all of those had assists (For lack of a better term) but they do so little they are of no use. And again, why do I want a "big style" game? I want the best sim I can find, not the one that has sold the most. Unless your invested in the company, sales do NOT MATTER.

Again, why do some people want to see a massive influx of people who are likely not legitimately interested in a simulation type of experience?

The fact is that Shift - while it could hint at a step forward if you think so (I dont) - is still far to arcade for me. Funny how there was a massive outcry when GTL and GTR2 made you unlock cars and tracks, but with Shift no one cares?

@Roush - Why do you think I included iRacing as an exception? GTR2/rF are far from full sim. Heck, (I hate mentioning this all the time) where are the cold tires? They both have so many flaws it's hard to call them sims when I could just as easily go fire up iRacing, sure they are fun, but far from the level where you NEED proper equipment to do so.

[Watermellon]

Sad blow for PC. PC Sim racers should just buy it to support the future of Sim racing.
Only counsel based Sim's have the moola to bring out ultra quality Sims. That don't take years to make, and hundreds of dollars to rent. IMHO, any one who drives with out a wheel isn't a serious Sim racer. FF has come a long way. Your missing have the experience if you use a "game pad". "Shift" goes a long way in showing what can be done for a Sim.
Some thing other titles are only promising for future releases. For 40$, you can experience it now.

[Watermellon]

OHHHH Trust me I understand the marketing. But you miss one thing, and that is a mainstream sim will be naturally flawed - you simply can't cater to both groups. The only way a true sim becomes marketable is if it is so revolutionary it DEFINES the genre. Think Falcon 4.0, Flight Simulator, GPL, NR03. Yes all of those had assists (For lack of a better term) but they do so little they are of no use. And again, why do I want a "big style" game? I want the best sim I can find, not the one that has sold the most. Unless your invested in the company, sales do NOT MATTER.

Again, why do some people want to see a massive influx of people who are likely not legitimately interested in a simulation type of experience?

The fact is that Shift - while it could hint at a step forward if you think so (I dont) - is still far to arcade for me. Funny how there was a massive outcry when GTL and GTR2 made you unlock cars and tracks, but with Shift no one cares?

@Roush - Why do you think I included iRacing as an exception? GTR2/rF are far from full sim. Heck, (I hate mentioning this all the time) where are the cold tires? They both have so many flaws it's hard to call them sims when I could just as easily go fire up iRacing, sure they are fun, but far from the level where you NEED proper equipment to do so.

iRacing is far from full Sim. Missing many already attained features of others. It's tire modeling feels flat, or driving on flat tires. Compared with what "Shift" brings to the table. If the tire physics are 100% accurate or not. They model things that are unknown in iRacing and any other publicly available Sim. That is why rFactor2 is said to also include a new tire model that takes more then one CPU core for the game to allow it. Keep driving your Model T. Or shift into the future of Racing Sims.

[Empty Box]

Sad blow for PC. PC Sim racers should just buy it to support the future of Sim racing.
Only counsel based Sim's have the moola to bring out ultra quality Sims. That don't take years to make, and hundreds of dollars to rent. IMHO, any one who drives with out a wheel isn't a serious Sim racer. FF has come a long way. Your missing have the experience if you use a "game pad". "Shift" goes a long way in showing what can be done for a Sim.
Some thing other titles are only promising for future releases. For 40$, you can experience it now.

I should make it clear that I am a wheel user, and always have been.

Yes, we should all waste our money on stuff that offers nothing simply so they keep churning out slight rehashes of it. There is nothing new worth switching to Shift for. Given that it's all subjective, I'll spend my money on iRacing and get a great experience than go buy Shift for 1/5 the cost and have 1/5th the fun.

Atleast with iRacing I get a working product. Oh yea, and I get penalized for wrecking.

[Brainbug]

...But you miss one thing, and that is a mainstream sim will be naturally flawed - you simply can't cater to both groups...
guess maybe because of guys like u, who seems to have a to restrict opinion and claim. (don´t get me wrong here: no offense)

...And again, why do I want a "big style" game?
simply because u need a hell of money to come up with something great and secure ur future work and products. tell me why blimey did not released a game without a big partner.

[Watermellon]

I should make it clear that I am a wheel user, and always have been.

Yes, we should all waste our money on stuff that offers nothing simply so they keep churning out slight rehashes of it.

Atleast with iRacing I get a working product.

I've almost completed the game. So it works pretty good and we all know, every new software is buggy. While iRacing continues with it's patches. Comparing hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to forty. Is laughable.

[Watermellon]

[/B] Oh yea, and I get penalized for wrecking.

That is why I'm answering your post.

[Empty Box]

iRacing is far from full Sim. Missing many already attained features of others. It's tire modeling feels flat, or driving on flat tires. Compared with what "Shift" brings to the table. If the tire physics are 100% accurate or not. They model things that are unknown in iRacing and any other publicly available Sim. That is why rFactor2 is said to also include a new tire model that takes more then one CPU core for the game to allow it. Keep driving your Model T. Or shift into the future of Racing Sims.

I ROFL at this comment.

So, I guess Shift must be full sim, ya know, with the tire wear and such. Enjoy your 2 lap races (Oh wait, forgot 20 lap quick races!) Real racing that is! iRacing may lack some features, but by far is the most complete package in terms of simulation - Sim should go far beyond just the way the tires "feel" (Which is subjective). How about those tracks and the advertising in Shift? :laugh:

Yes Shift may bring something new to the table, but it also lacks far to many features to even be in the same catagory as a sim. Again, Psuedosim. No different than Gran Turismo and Forza.

And how do you know what iRacing can model - given the fact that YOU don't have access to the code? :laugh: Considering that they update every season and bring new stuff to the table, you have not a clue what they have done (Given the fact that it is VERY closed) or are doing.

BTW, there is no possible way to spend a Thousand dollars on iRacing. You have just made yourself sound like one of the many uninformed masses. As for patches - WTH! Yes, because it's such a headache for them to tell me that I have to update (And then start the update automatically) and have everything done for me. I don't have to pay attention to anything, go look for the patch, nothing. It's there, downloaded, applied. I have to click maybe 2 buttons.

[Watermellon]

I should make it clear that I am a wheel user, and always have been.

Yes, we should all waste our money on stuff that offers nothing simply so they keep churning out slight rehashes of it. There is nothing new worth switching to Shift for. Given that it's all subjective, I'll spend my money on iRacing and get a great experience than go buy Shift for 1/5 the cost and have 1/5th the fun.

Atleast with iRacing I get a working product. Oh yea, and I get penalized for wrecking.

I ROFL at this comment.

So, I guess Shift must be full sim, ya know, with the tire wear and such. Enjoy your 2 lap races (Oh wait, forgot 20 lap quick races!) Real racing that is! iRacing may lack some features, but by far is the most complete package in terms of simulation - Sim should go far beyond just the way the tires "feel" (Which is subjective). How about those tracks and the advertising in Shift? :laugh:

Yes Shift may bring something new to the table, but it also lacks far to many features to even be in the same catagory as a sim. Again, Psuedosim. No different than Gran Turismo and Forza.

And how do you know what iRacing can model - given the fact that YOU don't have access to the code? :laugh: Considering that they update every season and bring new stuff to the table, you have not a clue what they have done (Given the fact that it is VERY closed) or are doing.

BTW, there is no possible way to spend a Thousand dollars on iRacing. You have just made yourself sound like one of the many uninformed masses.

Putting words in my mouth won't get you of the hook! I never said "Shift" was a full Sim.
You don't have to see the "code" to know you need more CPU power to model the dynamic quickly changing forces in a tire. It's what iRacing has modeled that counts. Just keep buying content and paying for the right to use it. You'll get to the thousand in NO time.

[KittX]

Come on guys, mainstram or not mainstream - is this really important? That's business, and that's all. What is better for commercial game developers: to have a game as a "base platform" which people will enjoy for many years because of free mods and wouldn't buy something new, or series of sims which in fact are just a new content, but it is payware content and cannot be ripped off.
Yes, there's rule around No-Grippers and few other communities that we don't allow cross-platform convert, but that's real life... and hundreds of people rip the content off and spread it over the web.
I wouldnt be surprised if Simbin will stop making PC sims soon, because it's just unprofitable. They will make lots of mods and addons, like some modding groups' addons now, but they will do it for game-platforms only, and for money. And it is ok. Everyone wants to have money for their job.

It is hard financial situation now and it affects the game and sim industry as well. There's no point in "long players" like rF or GTR2 for companies like SimBin, who choose to do a flow-line production. On the other side, ISI is more independent company, which is not just developing a game, but they're developing a game engine and features as well, which they're going to sell in the future.
But it seems to me that the future of PC sims is technology which is used in iRacing. That's sad, but that's most succesful strategy for the future of PC simulation. Maybe we'll get strategy similar to Rapidshare or other filetransfer services: a free account with lots of disadvantages, and a premium account which is not very expensive.
That's sad, but we all live in commercial world.

[Empty Box]

Putting words in my mouth won't get you of the hook! I never said "Shift" was a full Sim.
You don't have to see the "code" to know you need more CPU power to model the dynamic quickly changing forces in a tire. It's what iRacing has modeled that counts. Just keep buying content and paying for the right to use it. You'll get to the thousand in NO time.

You blatantly said that they don't model certain things, which you have no idea if they do or if they are implementing it. Fact is, no one does. But as you said, it doesn't matter. We simply don't get that tactile feel from current equipment to make anything more advanced a requirement. What you gain isn't nearly enough for what you get back - RIGHT NOW. Not saying it wont happen down the road, but as of now, unless you have a Frex wheel or something like that, not worth it.

And no, I wont. Go get informed rather than talking about what you have no clue about. You don't need to spend a thousand dollars on iRacing, in fact, you'd be a fool to. Don't insult what I spend my money on when I have no problem if you enjoy your "sim". IMO, they don't offer near enough to even come close to calling it a sim.

I tried it, wasn't impressed. Doesn't offer near the same sim experience, just for a flashy tire model. Not worth it for what I lose from my current library of sims.

If they want to define the genre they have a LONG way to go. Their whole marketing campaign has been exactly what you get, Burnout on closed circuits. If you value a slightly better tire model for the drawbacks, go ahead. I'm not stopping you.

[Roush9]

I've almost completed the game. So it works pretty good and we all know, every new software is buggy. While iRacing continues with it's patches. Comparing hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to forty. Is laughable.

So because a game cost less, the quality should just be expected to be less than something like iRacing? HA! Now that's funny. I've said it before and I'll say it again, anything EA has ever laid hands on has went from gold to shit. They have the potential to make amazing games but don't put forward the effort because they're monopolizing the gaming industry.

iRacing is the best $500 dollar investment I've ever made when it comes to racing games.

[DucFreak]

Sad blow for PC. PC Sim racers should just buy it to support the future of Sim racing.
Only counsel based Sim's have the moola to bring out ultra quality Sims. That don't take years to make, and hundreds of dollars to rent. IMHO, any one who drives with out a wheel isn't a serious Sim racer. FF has come a long way. Your missing have the experience if you use a "game pad". "Shift" goes a long way in showing what can be done for a Sim.
Some thing other titles are only promising for future releases. For 40$, you can experience it now.

I agree.

To be on topic, look at torrent numbers for the PC versions, it's outrageous.

IMHO, the numbers of users with PC versions of SHIFT are way, waaaaaaay bigger (and will be more and more in the upcoming months) than such statistics can show, just like happened, for instances, with GTR2 about three years ago untill this day.

There's huge numbers of people that just wait for the pirate version to come out and never buy the game, those are probably -almost surely I would say- not the usual type of "hardcore simracer/user" but, looking at the numbers/flux of downloaded pirate versions, and then to compare those with the number of legal copies sold, that could show why the interest of publishers (like EA) in this genre is mostly in the consoles right now, with the game dev companies in need to follow those orders/demands (from publishers).

The console "sims" (or "semi-sims" like SHIFT) are getting really good -I'm looking forward to see GT5 for PS3 myself- but they will still be very far from PC "true" sims and for a very long time... there's just much more complexity and detail to explore in the PC platform and peripherals, so it is worrying to see big projects for PC staying in the drawer and getting forgotten, as they wouldn't provide incoming (after the development investment!). :(

Indeed our beloved "sim racer PC market" is as niche as niche can be (and piracy is not helping), extremely elitist in overall gaming vision, but then that's perhaps also what makes it purist, mature and somewhat more artistical also for those that care and invest in productions only for PC platform (take NkPro or iRacing as the main examples).


(...) And again, why do I want a "big style" game? I want the best sim I can find, not the one that has sold the most. Unless your invested in the company, sales do NOT MATTER.

Again, why do some people want to see a massive influx of people who are likely not legitimately interested in a simulation type of experience?

That's a rather interesting point... and I also agree with that comment.

The "communities", how they are, are important for the life span of a title, not really bringing the third parties mods in here, but the general environment and atmosphere instead, for instances, in online racing servers and in public forums.

...and that's another thing that SHIFT got me uninterested, just like iRacing did on the other opposite side of it.

The first is (generally) aimed at teens and casual/uninsterested gamers (not simmers), the second is (again, generally) aimed at a somewhat snob-ish, exaggeratedly elistist crowd... and that can get as a deal braker for plenty of us that live a lot around these games, it's not just "what is inside the product", as there's more than just that.

GPL, GTL, GTR2 (P&G!:P), NkPro, NR2003, rFactor, some are better and some are worse, but all are what I could recall as "generally good places" to live at along the way, as a sim-racer game addict. :thumbup:

[dadada1]

Come on guys, mainstram or not mainstream - is this really important? That's business, and that's all. What is better for commercial game developers: to have a game as a "base platform" which people will enjoy for many years because of free mods and wouldn't buy something new, or series of sims which in fact are just a new content, but it is payware content and cannot be ripped off.
Yes, there's rule around No-Grippers and few other communities that we don't allow cross-platform convert, but that's real life... and hundreds of people rip the content off and spread it over the web.
I wouldnt be surprised if Simbin will stop making PC sims soon, because it's just unprofitable. They will make lots of mods and addons, like some modding groups' addons now, but they will do it for game-platforms only, and for money. And it is ok. Everyone wants to have money for their job.

It is hard financial situation now and it affects the game and sim industry as well. There's no point in "long players" like rF or GTR2 for companies like SimBin, who choose to do a flow-line production. On the other side, ISI is more independent company, which is not just developing a game, but they're developing a game engine and features as well, which they're going to sell in the future.
But it seems to me that the future of PC sims is technology which is used in iRacing. That's sad, but that's most succesful strategy for the future of PC simulation. Maybe we'll get strategy similar to Rapidshare or other filetransfer services: a free account with lots of disadvantages, and a premium account which is not very expensive.
That's sad, but we all live in commercial world.

+1

You speak the truth. The "free market" is creeping into (and slowly ruining) every apsect of modern life. At least if your a discerning end user who wants as little compromise as possible.

[Brainbug]

iRacing is the best $500 dollar investment I've ever made when it comes to racing games.
didn´t know there are/were other sim-games that costs so much. :-)

[rj3005]

http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly.php

shift ps3: #4 spot 212.000 units sold
shift xbox: #6 spot 171.000

[rj3005]

Dutch charts:: http://www.ng-gamer.nl/games/populaire-games/

PC version on #5

[rj3005]

i wonder if those charts count the downloadable pc verion from the ea store as well. that may (that could explain the 5% pc sales a bit)

[KittX]

Anyway, Blimey did really really good investment of their ideas and brainstorms. Yes, it is a mainstream product, but it is quality stuff, and it's great promotion for the studio. (maybe not around simmers, but around other developers, publishers and other big guys).

Shame that it didn't go that good with french guys and their "Grand Fail Offroad". (i've been looking for this game for 5 years and very disappointed by the final result. Even the graphics engine looked better in 2005, tho it was more simple.) :(

[Roush9]

didn´t know there are/were other sim-games that costs so much. :-)

there's not, because no other sim can touch iracing.

[iounas]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, anything EA has ever laid hands on has went from gold to shit. They have the potential to make amazing games but don't put forward the effort because they're monopolizing the gaming industry.


thats true..ea is the worst company..
I dont know if it changed but they didnt even make patches for their buggy games

[AndrewJ]

iRacing is the best $500 dollar investment I've ever made when it comes to racing games.

BEST 10 dollar investment is GPL then since you all go off topic.

PC sales ......... its only available in Australia from TODAY rof

( David :thumbup:)

[Husky42]

i wonder if those charts count the downloadable pc verion from the ea store as well. that may (that could explain the 5% pc sales a bit)

No they do not, EA has already admitted they do not count digitial distribution in their charts.

Which really makes me upset, nearly 98% of my games are all now digital purchases, as with my room mate my brother and a few of our lan buddies.

Companies do not put out DD on charts and I have no idea why.. its pretty annoying because it skews the pc market at the consumer level and what it is actually doing in terms of volume.

[AndrewJ]

I agree.

To be on topic, look at torrent numbers for the PC versions, it's outrageous.



Release it pre-order ike HL ......simple.

L4D2 pre-sales are double the orginal

You make pre-order cheaper you make it up on volume I think

[David Wright]

No they do not, EA has already admitted they do not count digitial distribution in their charts.

Which really makes me upset, nearly 98% of my games are all now digital purchases, as with my room mate my brother and a few of our lan buddies.

Companies do not put out DD on charts and I have no idea why.. its pretty annoying because it skews the pc market at the consumer level and what it is actually doing in terms of volume.

DD is a factor but are still a lot less than sales of boxed copies. Valve, who surely lead EA in digital distribution, say they will soon be making more money from digital distribution than from boxed sales. Like EA they sell their digital titles at the same price as the boxed version. With the boxed version the shop takes 40% of the price so Valve make much less money on boxed versions. So if they are close to making the same amount of money, the volume of digital sales must be less than boxed sales.

[AMAjr455]

Sad blow for PC. PC Sim racers should just buy it to support the future of Sim racing.

+1... sad sad, as this will prove the PC market is not worth the effort and certainly not worth the criticisms.

I for one think all the folks who claim they "Hardcore SIm Racers) tried SHIFT for 30 min to and hour and deleted it, are really missing out. The game gets better and better the more you play and the more advanced cars you obtain. Also, with the AI mod reducing the aggressiveness makes it an awesome offline PC game for me anyway.

I'm really lo'vn it!

[pitradio]

Dutch charts:: http://www.ng-gamer.nl/games/populaire-games/

PC version on #5

PC on 6th
PS3 on 34th
X360 on 47th

[DucFreak]

+1... sad sad, as this will prove the PC market is not worth the effort and certainly not worth the criticisms.

...it's a distorted one but a sad truth.

PC market is not worth the effort if you're going full on for the money (essential, I guess), but I personally think it's worth the effort if you aim it at a slowly growing community, like happens with sim-racing, a very specific, small but extremely loyal fanbase of these games, which will go after the best products and stick with them.

Good sim-racing titles/games can last for ridiculously long amounts of time... who's playing NFS-Underground or Sega Rally-PC these days?

Sim-racers are rather hard to please (too many sub-genres, different tastes) but all look at a new "hardcore sim" in a much different way than a gamer look at the new "bling-bling" title, we're much more closer to flight-sim communities... those have their products rather defined and polished now... we're still on pre-infancy IMHO
(iRacing got closer, but fails in the way the product is "rented" - expensive).

The day someone makes a full on accurate and complete driving/racing sim, as specialized and "big" as FS-X (or even IL2), we probably won't need to discuss this VS that title. :) hehe


I for one think all the folks who claim they "Hardcore SIm Racers) tried SHIFT for 30 min to and hour and deleted it, are really missing out. The game gets better and better the more you play and the more advanced cars you obtain. Also, with the AI mod reducing the aggressiveness makes it an awesome offline PC game for me anyway.

While I can agree that SHIFT is really cool, we've got to be honest here... it is not worth it for a very large part of the sim-racer crowd.

Ok, some of us may be more sensible to attention to detail than others but, to make it simple and straight, SHIFT is not one of those cases of overall spot-on accuracy or immersion (biggest ilusion factor, makes a simulation IMHO), it's so far from that in so many things.

...pick NkPro or iRacing (and P&G for GTR2! :-P) and it's night and day in the driving/racing experience (for the better), endlessly more immersive IMHO.
I'm pretty sure I can speak for a lot of people that did test SHIFT with a fair, open mind as well.

You can't blame those that have run full-on "hardcore" racing/driving sims for some time and feel SHIFT as something uninteresting after testing it (with an open mind), this is afterall an extremely refined "semi-real" racing title, with large hints of a sim (obviously, looking at the team that did it), but not much more than that, it is not a sim... so what do the "hardcore sim racers" lose or miss out here? :?:

I'm looking really, really forward to other titles from SMS, but this one sure didn't grab me (so far), and tbh I just hope the others to come aren't like this.

[f0xx]

Or not...many skepitcals are actually starting to see Shift's true potentialities.
Shift has one of the best engines outhere, just need to be "tamed".

You should read redi's review ^^
Also check this video from Dude27 link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSbjiINGGTY)

(olha mais um tuga)

[clevy911]

Besides leagues, online play is a joke with most these PC sims. I say future titles require a wheel and make the software cost around $100 or whatever to still make a profit. It would be worth it as most everyone online will be somewhat serious about having a clean race.
How many wreckers would make this investment ?

Right now they pick it up for $10 at Walmart, frown at the learning curve and find it funner to just screw other people's race.

[breached]

Besides leagues, online play is a joke with most these PC sims. I say future titles require a wheel and make the software cost around $100 or whatever to still make a profit. It would be worth it as most everyone online will be somewhat serious about having a clean race.
How many wreckers would make this investment ?

Right now they pick it up for $10 at Walmart, frown at the learning curve and find it funner to just screw other people's race.

xbox live lets you block player from joining a lobby you are or you joining a lobby they are in. This served as somewhat of a deterrent in Forza 2. PC games definetely need somthing like that.

[NitrousOxideUK]

£16-25 for a digital download convinced me to add to the pc sales yesterday ;)

http://www.g2play.net/store/Need-For-Speed-Shift-EA-Download-Manager.html

[Valar]

The digital distribution sales are not included in those figures. EA and the others won't give those numbers mainly because brick retail stores are at odds with the publishers about digital distribution for a number of obvious reasons. In fact EA is probably at war with itself (all the other publishers are): if a client in the UK buys a copy of SHIFT via digital distribution, should EA in the US get the sale or should the UK sales organisation? Pretty big problem when you have a bunch of salespeople in countries throughout whose bonus depends on pushing boxes to retail chains :-)

[Empty Box]

Besides leagues, online play is a joke with most these PC sims. I say future titles require a wheel and make the software cost around $100 or whatever to still make a profit. It would be worth it as most everyone online will be somewhat serious about having a clean race.
How many wreckers would make this investment ?

Right now they pick it up for $10 at Walmart, frown at the learning curve and find it funner to just screw other people's race.

Been done, it's called iRacing.

But like F0xx said, there is a good engine behind it, just needs some taming. Personally, I'd rather not beta test for them.

[Shinzah]

This is a sad discussion.

After I modded shift on PC, its extremely enjoyable. Is it the most realistic sim ive ever played? Probably not, GT4 with a G25 is the most "realistic" sim ive ever played, and why is that? Because some of us "Hardcore" sim racers dont feel a need to shut off all the assists, that much of the time, are in an actual race car barring any unforeseeable wreck that destroys the ten or eleven thousand dollar computer system in the blasted thing. (A Race car worth over a million dollars, without ABS and TCS? Thats about the most absurd thing ive ever heard.)

Also PC sim racing is not dead, granted there is piracy and online distribution crowding the market, but units sold in the thousands is still quite profitable for distributors and publishers. Otherwise PC Sim racing would have been "dead" many, many years ago.

And finally, about iracing and its coveted holy grail of sim-ness, I've played it, I'm subscribed to it, mostly because other online racing games have nobody around to play them. And frankly, if you think iracing is the best sim ever made, you've never actually driven a vehicle at speed a day in your life anyway. Taking a computer simulation of what a race should be and translating that to a simulator makes for a pretty damn reliably not-sim experience, heck even the (semi)famous drivers who show up on that game cant drive within an inch of their life, which is interesting, because they seem to do well enough on the weekends dont they, and they should be killing the likes of us like we're flies and they are the raid that sprays us. IF it was a decent simulation, of which, nothing of the sort exists outside of F1 training facilities.

[RubyEagle]

I just started SHIFT this weekend and am very impressed. I really have enjoyed learning the new cars. The full detailed interiors, dashes and gauges are great.

iRacing is great online racing but after racing it on and off the past year and a half I was dazzled by all the immersion SHIFT brings with the flag waving crowds, the helicopters and the details like tire smoke which iRacing still doesn't have but NR2003 did in..2003.

There is room for both in my world. I loved iRacing but I am also loving driving the AWD Audis, the Mitsubishi EVOs, the new Camaro SS and the Shelby GT500 rocks! The sound is awesome! :thumbup:

[nostromo]

The truth is that SHIFT is very poorly ported to PC. The are many purchasers who cannot get it to run on their PCs. Some cannot get past the 'safety warning' screen, others find the menus unusable unless they unplug their wheel (now that makes sense). There are places in the game where you cannot 'terminate' only 'resume or restart'. You have to kill the process. EA has been well aware of the problems since day one of the US release but have offered nothing. The only patch offered makes the mouse usable in menus. Now imagine - using a mouse on a PC was not considered prior to release!
The news is out; SHIFT is a mess. No wonder PC sales are depressed.
Currently the only way to 'fix' all the bugs is to declare this game as not of merchantable quality and get a refund.

[redi]

Let's see...

GTL got a patch after release and is still not bug-free, and obviously never will be.

GTR2 got a patch after release and certainly isn't bug free.

RBR got one patch but is very obviously a rushed and unfinished product.

rFactor got many patches after release, not sure if it's 100% bug-free now.


Still, all these titles are considered to be the finest in the race sim market.

True, it is bad that some users apparently cannot even run the game and shows that the PC version wasn't finished/tested properly, but hardly ever is a game a finished product and bug-free at release. I wish they had taken more time to make a proper PC version, but that's not to be expected from big ugly companies like EA. It's part of software life.

I am enjoying every minute of Shift, even though performance isn't up to par yet. Of course EA/SMS need to come out with at least one other patch to solve the current issues, but releasing Shift in this state and at this time is just software business as usual, there's nothing we can ever change about it.

[logansan]

of corse it is, next ea title i wanna buy i'll wait till I'm sure i can play it

[redi]

of corse it is, next ea title i wanna buy i'll wait till I'm sure i can play it

The only way to be sure of that is by sending your PC to EA to have it tested with the game :mrgreen:

[David Wright]

More info.

At the end of September I checked Amazon's charts to see if the UK was typical compared to other countries.

UK
PS3 - no 8
XB360 - no 27
PC - no 217

This does seem to reflect overall sales

USA
PS3 - no 27
XB360 - no 38
PC - no 265

So broadly similar to the UK. The lower chart positions may indicate less popularity or may just reflect the earlier US release with sales peaking earlier.

Germany
PS3 - no 10
PC - no 19
XB360 - no 46

PS3 still top but the PC much much better than in the US or GB, comfortably beating the XB360

France
PS3 - no 14
XB360 - no 27
PC - no 41

Consoles on top - the PS3 leading but PC sales much closer than in the US or GB.

While Amazon sales can only at best be an indicator, it does appear that the PC is a more important platform in France and Germany compared to the US or GB.

Back to the UK - progress of Shift on UK charts

All format
Week 1 - No. 1
Week 2 - No. 3
Week 3 - No. 4

PC
Week 1 - No. 4
Week 2 - No. 5
Week 3 - No. 9

[nostromo]

redi, I suppose we could always just not fall for it every time and either not buy in the first instance or return for a refund when a game fails to run and the producer is not interested in quality assurance.

Just to prove that I too am a fool - I have had a large number of (legitimate) games running on my system during the last 12 months. Some new, some not so.
Of all those games, 3 have refused to run despite trying every workaround suggested.

Each and every one of those 3 games was published by EA; and I still bought SHIFT. It does not run. I contacted EA Tech Support on 30th Sept. I have had an acknowledgement and no more.

I have now got a refund. I shall wait until the others have finished the beta testing and then consider buying it again.

[logansan]

The only way to be sure of that is by sending your PC to EA to have it tested with the game :mrgreen:

a thing was if just my pc cannot play the game, in that case Ea had to do nothing. but we are talking about a big percentage of users who have bought the game and are still not able to play, or can't play it decently.

[David Wright]

I don't think it is a big percentage :)

Its natural to assume that just because you have a problem, a lot of others do.
The only common problem I've seen with getting the game runing is the corrupted graphics settings file, and this is "fixable". I assume you've tried this?

[Shinzah]

The easiest fix I've found is not overclocking any of your hardware. This has worked for seven people I know, simply returning bios to stock.

[nostromo]

After a reminder to EA, I got a reply today. It would seem I have the wrong operating system.

I quote complete with mangled English - "I understand your problem and I would like to inform you that there are many problem for windows vista 64 bit with some of the EA Games. I request you to please try the game running in vista 32 bit in its compatibility mode. Then you may be able to run the game better."

So, EA thought that no one with 64 bit Vista would buy the game, or they simply forgot its existence?

Perhaps they will show me how to get '32 bit compatibillity mode'

[redi]

After a reminder to EA, I got a reply today. It would seem I have the wrong operating system.

I quote complete with mangled English - "I understand your problem and I would like to inform you that there are many problem for windows vista 64 bit with some of the EA Games. I request you to please try the game running in vista 32 bit in its compatibility mode. Then you may be able to run the game better."

So, EA thought that no one with 64 bit Vista would buy the game, or they simply forgot its existence?

Perhaps they will show me how to get '32 bit compatibillity mode'

Vista x64 here, and apart from the ATI issue it's running fine :)

[nostromo]

Following my reaction to the first e-mail, I have had another bombshell from EA. Unless someone is having a joke.

Again, I quote in full -

"Hello,

Thank you for contacting EA.

We are sorry for the inconvenience caused to you so far. But many game's has not been tested yet. We are working on this issue right now.

Is there anything else that you want to share with us

Sincerely,

Hope this helps!

EA Rep AVON
EA Online Support"

[eternal0123456]

We are sorry for the inconvenience caused to you so far. But many game's has not been tested yet. We are working on this issue right now.

LOL
Thanx for sharing this :mrgreen:

EA has a nice online support! They don't even test their games!