PDA

View Full Version : Are you a Granny-driver? Brake bias got you down?


darock
9 November 07, 13:32
What brake bias values have you been trying?

Do a couple of things. Make sure you know where the brake bias keys are. I've got mine on the UP/DOWN keys. Those arrows just seem right for moving the bias to the FRONT/REAR.

Start with the brake bias at 50/50 and go run an easy lap at the track you are most comfortable. It works great if it's got a long straight into a hard turn. The 1st turn at Monza works good. The hairpin at Magny-Cours is another.

Do straight line braking coming into that highspeed, hard braking turn. If you've not tried bias setting far from the SimBin setup, or tried changing far from the default setup, you're going to have a surprise when you brake. The SimBin setup at one track for the Peugeot is a case in point. The brakes are set at 85% and are 59/41. Not much change from the default's 60/40. Try 50/50 and 95% and see how your car brakes with that.

FWD cars really work the front tires. Overwork them if you don't know how to drive that layout. When the brakes are really working hard, and you try to turn in, the tires have too much demand on their traction and your car plows like a tractor. Won't turn worth spit.

Move some of the braking off the fronts and what happens? Better braking for one thing when you move away from trying to do most of it with just 2 tires. And best of all, the fronts now have less traction being taken by the braking task and can put that traction into the turning task.

So..........................................
You're on the track with this new bias setting and you come HOWLING into that hard braking turn. How do you test to see if the bias is good? Stomp the brakes. No finesse. You're simply seeing if you've obviously gone too far. Straight line braking will show you when you're really too far to the rear on bias. Because the car gets squirrely. And really bad rear bias will bring the rear around.

And once you've gotten the bias ok on that test, do some trail braking. BTW, notice how much more turn-in you're getting with the steering? You're still not there, but LOTS closer.

I find that 50/50 isn't quite correct for most FWD. And that going back to the garage to reset the brake bias takes way too much time. You can find the sweet setting with one run of a couple of consecutive laps. Use the brake bias keys during the laps.

It might take you a couple of tries to get your mind to accept the 50/50 start setting, but what the heck, you ain't getting hurt in any of those wrecks are you. And if a bias setting sounds wrong to you, then don't do it. Start the testing with whatever you wish, but if you start with that 60/40 crap look for this.....................

How do you tell if the setting is too far forward? The rear doesn't come around on maximum straight line braking. Yup. But you don't want it to, do you. So work the bias keys, moving the bias aft until you do get some twitchy, rear coming around feeling. NOW, look at what that setting is on the screen (it shows every time you change with the keys). Ain't even close to 60/40 is it? Nah.............

Hey, you don't get hurt in the wrecks..... so just try it.

If you been screwing around that 60/40 balance, the change may just scare the devil out of you. You're not going to be prepared for how good your steering works when you get away from that lame balance and you're going to be FLYING through turns you had to Granny-drive before.

so just try it

Darran21
9 November 07, 14:46
I agree that 60/40 is no good, however having a Qual setup is one thing, Racing is quite an other......

A race is ment to be 3 hours but lets face it, Who actully does 3 hour races everytime?
With that in mind this is some sound advice......
However racing is about endurance which in turn is about balance, But the big thing to mension here is durabillity.... And after the word 'durabillity' comes the word 'tyres'.
Tyre wear should be considerd before any radical brake bias setting in any extreme, Be it front or rear,
However rear bias settings are definatly Porche friendly.

Any who darock, Seems how your mensioning 'Grany Drivers' i guess the boys will see you online?
You may even get a kicking by some 13yr olds!
In any case its a bold claim...... hehe :wave:

darock
9 November 07, 14:47
BTW, once you've got the ballpark setting with that straightline braking test (some people call what you do in that test, "threshold braking". You're on the threshold of losing traction. And braking right at the threshold of the corner.) you can then start tuning the bias with how the car reacts during trail braking.

It's easy to do too. Just tap the brakes while in a turn and see what happens. If nothing happens then hit them a bit harder in the middle of the next turn.

It's an art, so don't expect this to work like a formula.

darock
9 November 07, 14:50
I agree that 60/40 is no good, however having a Qual setup is one thing, Racing is quite an other......

A race is ment to be 3 hours but lets face it, Who actully does 3 hour races everytime?
With that in mind this is some sound advice......
However racing is about endurance which in turn is about balance, But the big thing to mension here is durabillity.... And after the word 'durabillity' comes the word 'tyres'.
Tyre wear should be considerd before any radical brake bias setting in any extreme, Be it front or rear,
However rear bias settings are definatly Porche friendly.

Certainly all true, but what do you suggest as a way to work out a brake bias for durability?

darock
9 November 07, 14:53
Also, keep in mind that you always have the bias keys. You can alter the bias during any laps on the track.

Which comes in handy in longer races.

Anybody got suggestions on how they change the bias during longer races?

darock
11 November 07, 00:43
BTW, I'm not suggesting that any specific bias is the right one, or the only one that works.

The suggestion is to not be afraid to try changes quite different from the SimBin start values. And that it's actually pretty easy to test brake bias.

guybo
12 November 07, 01:23
A race is ment to be 3 hours

WTCC races are around 45 minutes. There are some tracks where tire wear is a concern but by and in large in touring cars, car wear is not as big a concern as other types of racing- such as F1.

firstRACER
16 July 10, 12:38
Brake bias galore (http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakebiasandperformance.shtml)

Extreme summary of article for the lazy ones.:
Three pivotal factors affecting appropriate brake balance

- Weight distribution of the vehicle at rest (which incorporates fuel-load aspect I think)
- Center of gravity height – the higher it is, the more weight gets transferred during a stop
- Wheelbase – the shorter it is, the more weight gets transferred during a stop

And unless I'm not mistaken: Speed. As in higher speed, more weighttransfer. Which is why racecardrivers sometimes adjust brakebalance for certain corners I think.

-=Prodrive=-
16 July 10, 14:36
I am a career BMW 320 driver, and I have to have the bias on about 57:43, probably because the engine braking threatens to lock the rears up any more than that.

What I have noticed from the brief times that I have driven a FWD car in RACE is that you can afford to have the bias more to the rear so that the inside wheel is locking up when you turn in.

Another thing, and this is more of a whinge really, is that I think the BMW chews its rear tyres too much. I have tried to adjust my "driving style" and it just doesn't really make a difference. I have even gone out and thrashed a FWD car for a few laps, and its front tyres lasted forever. So I don't know if perhaps the fronts last too long on the FWD cars, or the rears don't last long enough on the BMWs (which should by default have better tyre life), but ive never thought the performance balance was quite right.

hog075
8 August 10, 22:40
These threads should be made a sticky this one and the one about the diff settings in the race 07 section as I have found more help in these two threads than I ever have from any of the meany set up guides I have sat for hour after hour using to no help.
As far as I am concerned you cant beat the feedback you get from other sim racers especially if your a total newbie to tuning cars like I am.

I am getting to the point in GTR evo were I am finding my driving style and really learning to play of the game and enjoy it but since that I have found the limits to the default setup and now I find it to be hindering my learning.
But when I seen these 2 threads and give them a good read I went and put it all into practice and your bang on the coast setting in the touring cars was too high so I knocked it to 10% and it was amazing.

I then got a hole lot better but there was still somthing wrong with my entry into a corner and then I saw this thread and give what was said about the brake bias a try and long behold I improved again the differnce was amazing.

So please guys keep all this info coming as its like gold to me lol.

Street Racer 77
8 August 10, 23:14
Thanks darock for giving us those information.
I didnīt thought about it myself but now it makes sense.
So thank you for pushing us into the right/correct way.

Cheers.

FOG-Smokebeer
23 August 10, 17:57
my little tip is to try to find a hard braking point offline and watch the replay angle
the cam to get a good view of the side of the car and watch the disks heat up and which tires are locking 1st and toget consistance tire/brake temps i use additional event time trial some mods need a few laps to warmup otherwise......