'69 Corvette

[Bodie]

Hi. Is anyone interested in this? If so, can you help with the physics? I'm hopeless at it.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2199/2087627490_9190d4e65d_o.jpg

[Phantoms]

Looks good Bodie.:up:

[Aristotelis]

has this car an historical background and info?

[Bodie]

On this car in particular, or the L88 roadsters in general? The L88s dominated SCCA road racing in the late 60s, with the Owens-Corning roadsters taking 22 straight victories. The one above is Tony DeLorenzo's #1 car, which accounted for a good number of those wins. Detailed stats are difficult to come by - it just happens to be the only skin I've done so far.

I'm not bothered if no one wants to make use of it - I'm quite happy playing with it on my own! Just thought the existing model might benefit from a proper L88 hood cowl and an (optional) roadster body, and since I don't know whether anyone's working on converting the crappy French physics for use with P&G, I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Obviously no one is, though.

[spin_doctor]

Just to clarify:

The physics in the P&G mods have nothing whatever to do with the so-called "French" version of GTL. Aris has produced physics for all P&G cars using information and suggestions from a number of historical sources and individuals. We are presently at work on a continuation of the P&G series which may include the above car (edit:type C3 corvette), if not. Time will tell on that.

[DucFreak]

Just to clarify:

The physics in the P&G mods have nothing whatever to do with the so-called "French" version of GTL. Aris has produced physics for all P&G cars using information and suggestions from a number of historical sources and individuals. We are presently at work on a continuation of the P&G series which may include the above car, if not its predecessor. Time will tell on that.

Ditto. :up:

...nothing to do with people not being interested, Bodie, it's just that this car might be (or not) featured later in P&G -depending on historical background- and for Part-III of Power&Glory (you have Part-II still to come), it's too early to be around these ones IMO.

[Bodie]

Just to clarify:

The physics in the P&G mods have nothing whatever to do with the so-called "French" version of GTL. Aris has produced physics for all P&G cars using information and suggestions from a number of historical sources and individuals. We are presently at work on a continuation of the P&G series which may include the above car, if not its predecessor. Time will tell on that.

I know this. I was in a hurry when I used the word converting - perhaps I should have said replacing so as not to offend anyone. I'm also aware that people are working on the '65 Vette, which is arguably the same car with a different body (or at least the '67 is), so I didn't think it'd be too much of a stretch.

Obviously I'm nothing to do with P&G beyond enjoying using it, so I wouldn't deign to offer the revised model for inclusion, but people like me who play almost exclusively offline may - like me - at least like to have the option to use this car alongside the mod. That's kind of the point of add-on cars, isn't it?

Like I said, I'm quite happy to keep it to myself - it doesn't make any difference to my life - I'm simply trying to find out if anyone's got any decent physics files for it so that I and anyone else who's (not) interested can enjoy it the way it's supposed to be enjoyed. Unfortunately, it seems that those who are working on the P&G mod take it far too seriously to want to share the wealth with anyone else ("far too early"? According to what industry standard?), and those who aren't involved haven't got the info. So there's my answer: "No."

I'll do it myself.

[HR186S]

I think you are mis-reading the comments. The far too early really refers to the timing of when each part of the mod comes out. Certainly we wouldn't have any problems with 3rd party skins being released for P&G (Just look at the download section). But the 68 onwards Corvette isn't scheduled for release just yet. There is still alot of work to be done even on the GT60's cars! After these are done we certainly will be moving on to the 70s cars.
The C3 Corvette will certainly be released, its not like we are holding back on things. I have driven this car with some very basic beta physics and thats it. These things take time, and I'm sure your car will be welcomed by the P&G community once the C3 is ready.

[Bodie]

I understand what you're saying, but this is not a skin for a car that hasn't been released yet. I mean, yes, I did paint the skin, but unless everyone else here knows something I don't and there's already an L88 roadster available for GTR2, it's a new car, albeit one based on a GTL mesh. Re-skinning a car does not remove the roof inside and out, reprofile the windscreen, rollbar, rear deck and spoilers or make bumpers or other assorted ancillaries magically appear out of thin air (or indeed get rid of the ugly black hole where that mirror used to be... oops!).

Like I said, I don't want to interfere with what you guys are doing (assuming you're actually building a roadster as opposed to the coupe I'm expecting to see) - all I'm after is a set of half-decent physics files so I can do my own thing. I posted in this forum because I thought it'd be th emost likely place. I'd even be happy with the original GTL files - anything to get rid of this horrible French mess - but apparently no one's got those either. Which makes me wonder how so many people manage to play GTL... :confused:


EDIT: Wait, I haven't finished. I might be reading some of these responses wrong, but I can't believe how awesomely patronising some of them sound. For future reference, a simple "Yeah, I'm working on them, but they're not finished so I can't really help you" would have been more than adequate.

[DucFreak]

EDIT: Wait, I haven't finished. I might be reading some of these responses wrong, but I can't believe how awesomely patronising some of them sound. For future reference, a simple "Yeah, I'm working on them, but they're not finished so I can't really help you" would have been more than adequate.

...if you re-read it (including your first post here), you'll find that's exactly what everyone was saying, we can't help you at this point for reasons already stated. :)


PS: why not making it for GTL, it would make a lot of people happy there too.

[Bodie]

LOL. No, what they said was, "Be patient, we'll build you a Corvette to play with when we're good and ready and then I'm sure all the little boys and girls might like some nice pretty skins," which didn't in any way answer the question I asked or indeed take into account anything I actually said. But never mind. I'll know where not to ask in future. :up:

[HR186S]

I'd even be happy with the original GTL files - anything to get rid of this horrible French mess - but apparently no one's got those either. Which makes me wonder how so many people manage to play GTL... :confused:
GTL physics files are encrypted, hence the "french mess" and why no-one has them ;)
Also no one is questioning your work at all... I don't know what gave you that idea? :confused: Aris asked if the car was historical since we only deal with historic cars. :)

[DucFreak]

LOL. No, what they said was, "Be patient, we'll build you a Corvette to play with when we're good and ready and then I'm sure all the little boys and girls might like some nice pretty skins," which didn't in any way answer the question I asked or indeed take into account anything I actually said. But never mind. I'll know where not to ask in future. :up:

Why don't know where's the funny part (?), I don't think anyone here said not do it.

As for the part where you suppose we (GTLW) expressed here, something like... "Be patient, we'll build you a Corvette to play with when we're good and ready and then I'm sure all the little boys and girls might like some nice pretty skins," ...really, I wonder how much you know about the P&G project and why we will not be supporting the release of this car at this point... if you really pay attention, there's simply no category to place the car with current release.
...I guess that makes sense, no?

And for patronizing... LOL (now it got funny) ...just look at the skins/add-on cars section of P&G add-ons on NoGrip, or even the Mini Se7en (http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17983) project of Nigave...
...we DO support sub-mods and add-ons for P&G, as long as they meet some criteria of permissions (if you base on anyone's previous work), autenticity and some quality standards.

Your project is extremely interesting but it's just out of place at this time, so we can not help you with physics or anything else if it's to be released now (before Part III, where the car belongs group/class wise), do you understand?

[spin_doctor]

I can't account for any of the previous comments, only my own. I only meant that the P&G physics are made by us and are not derived from any other project. The rest of my comment was to the effect that we are going to do the C2 and C3 corvette in later P&G mods which we are at work on.

I think there seems to be some confusion about other points discussed above. If Bodie painted the car, fine. It looks good to me.

[Bodie]

I only meant that the P&G physics are made by us and are not derived from any other project.

Yes, I addressed that.

If Bodie painted the car, fine. It looks good to me.

I painted it AFTER I REBUILT IT. Did I not mention that enough times? It's NOT A :censored: SKIN!!!

I think there seems to be some confusion about other points discussed above.

You don't say...

I wonder how much you know about the P&G project and why we will not be supporting the release of this car at this point...

I've got quite a high reading age for someone so young, which is why I stated quite clearly that I wasn't looking for you to 'support the release'. but just in case I was in any doubt...

Your project is extremely interesting but it's just out of place at this time, so we can not help you with physics or anything else if it's to be released now (before Part III, where the car belongs group/class wise), do you understand?

Yes, I understand that you don't wish to help me because it doesn't fit in with your own plans to release a similar car at some vague point in the future. Or is that not what you just said?

GTL physics files are encrypted, hence the "french mess" and why no-one has them

:censored: 'ell, a helpful answer to a question I asked! Many Thank Yous. Where's the dropping-to-my-knees-and-praising-the-lord--there's-life-on-this-planet-after-all smiley?

Also no one is questioning your work at all... I don't know what gave you that idea?

It's not that, although it would be nice if someone could grasp exactly what my work in this instance consists of. I'm frustrated because I came here asking if anyone had any physics files they could share, and all I got was "We may or may not do a C3 for P&G at some point in the future, but at the moment no one wants to know about your skins." Repeatedly. Can you see why that might wind me up?


EDIT: Incidentally, DucFreak, on the subject of there being no suitable categories: did you come to that conclusion before or after releasing the TC70 class with one make of car in it?

[Zoomie]

Mate, not sure what your problem is, but we don't just produce physics at the drop a hat cos someone asked. There are ALOT of cars that need working and we decided a months ago what the schedule would be. If we keep changing that all the time, nothing would get done at all.

The release schedule is first the TC-60 class, then the GT60s, then the GT-TC70 class. We've "done" the TC60s, and are now working on the GT60s. The C3 corvettes just happen to fall into the GT-TC70 class. We also pick and choose some cars from other classes to keep things interesting. But as you can see with the Porsches, you pretty much get a spec series then. There won't be too much mixing now since the cars we're dealing with now had some "natural" rivalries that made the racing great.

Aris is the main physics person when it comes to files. Others get relevant data for him, and give advice on where physics should go. He's been extremely busy with the GT60s physics and doesn't know everything about every car, which is why we formed a team. We have experts in each area, and sometimes we misuse terms when talking outside our area of expertise. Aris had to ask about this vettes background because we haven't even looked at the C3s yet. It is not scheduled for now, so we don't have physics for it because we haven't started working on that car at all.

Yes, I covered alot of what was said before, but I thought putting it all in one post might make it clearer.

And just to make it completely clear:

No, we do not have physics for it because we have not even started working on it.

Apologies for the "vague" release schedule, but if you employ us full time to work on this, we might be able to give you a concrete deadline.

Also, wishing to help and being able to help are two completely different things. We'd love to help, but we need to keep our priorities right or we'll be working on the mod forever.

EDIT: Just to make it even more clear, we've formed a habit of referring to a "car" as a specific race car, not all cars of the same type. So when they referred to a "car", that meant that exact same car (3d mods, skin, performance et al), not L88 C3s in general. You'd think you could do that, but race cars tend to differ from each other, which is all part of making your car faster than the next guys.

[DucFreak]

It's not that, although it would be nice if someone could grasp exactly what my work in this instance consists of. I'm frustrated because I came here asking if anyone had any physics files they could share, and all I got was "We may or may not do a C3 for P&G at some point in the future, but at the moment no one wants to know about your skins." Repeatedly. Can you see why that might wind me up?


EDIT: Incidentally, DucFreak, on the subject of there being no suitable categories: did you come to that conclusion before or after releasing the TC70 class with one make of car in it?

Let's see if I got it straight, I might be misunderstanding this then...

You present here ONE car (not one model, one single car!) and search for help here to release it as an "add-on" for Power&Glory (notice, not GTR2 or any other of its mods), one car that wasn't featured so far in P&G but is indeed in the current list of cars to be included (you have a modified C3 based on the GTL model, same as the ones we are working on)...
...am I right? :uhm:


...my question now is: why would you want to release a car for this mod NOW, when it will be featured in the mod later?

...why would you want someone making engine, gearbox, tire, suspension and everything else physics wise (I presume also new sounds, talent files, etc, etc?) when all that will be later "outdated" or at least not matching all the other Chevy C3 racecars later included in Part-III of the P&G (which may also included other modifications in 3D model you may be missing)?

...it seems like you want it released now "just because"... is it?
...then, by all means and for sanity sake, do it! :)

...you just have to understand why people that will be in fact making what you want here (for Part III), and to fit the mod in which you want this car, can't do it when you want it...! :-/ *shrugs*

...you can get all the help you want and release an "half arsed" car now working as a "placebo" effect for people looking for the '69 Corvette, instead of waiting patiently and getting things working as they should (like you want too, I presume) for the mod in which you want to include this car.
...it's your choice...


Ah yes... you're right about exhisting a TC70's car class, thing is, that class was created for a "bonus" car (911 WideBody), just like the IROC Porsches class.
...these ones exhisted since the beggining of the project (remember the early P&G-Demo featuring the Cortina & IROC 911's?), there was no reason why they would be out of the 1st release (Part I) if they were finished and already presented to the community in the playable Demo, something your car isn't, it seems. :)



EDIT: just seen Zoomie's post, pretty much is said there. :up:

[Bodie]

Oh, for God's sake.

Mate, not sure what your problem is, but we don't just produce physics at the drop a hat cos someone asked. There are ALOT of cars that need working and we decided a months ago what the schedule would be. If we keep changing that all the time, nothing would get done at all.

Please, show me where I asked anyone to do such a thing. "Has anyone got" does not mean "Will someone please drop everything and produce".


Aris had to ask about this vettes background because we haven't even looked at the C3s yet.

Not an issue.

It is not scheduled for now, so we don't have physics for it because we haven't started working on that car at all.

That would have been enough of an answer somewhere up there around post #2 or 3.

No, we do not have physics for it because we have not even started working on it.

Thanks for repeating that - I missed it all the other times cuz I dont reed gud. Not that I'm alone in that.

Apologies for the "vague" release schedule, but if you employ us full time to work on this, we might be able to give you a concrete deadline.

Please don't make the mistake of confusing my frustration at vague elitist fobbings-off for impatience over the release date. Of course, given that you're the ones who don't want me to do anything except wait because you 'might' do it yourselves 'somewhere down the line', I think I have the right to ask. Which, of course, I didn't.

Also, wishing to help and being able to help are two completely different things.

That much is abundantly clear.

You present here ONE car (not one model, one single car!) and search for help here to release it as an "add-on" for Power&Glory (notice, not GTR2 or any other of its mods ...am I right?

No, and I'm not going to repeat myself AGAIN, so I suggest you take the time to read what I actually wrote.

...why would you want someone making engine, gearbox, tire, suspension and everything else physics wise (I presume also new sounds, talent files, etc, etc?) when all that will be later "outdated" or at least not matching all the other Chevy C3 racecars later included in Part-III of the P&G (which may also included other modifications in 3D model you may be missing)?

Just the suspension, since you asked. But wait... matching files...?...

why would you want to release a car for this mod NOW, when it will be featured in the mod later?[?QUOTE]

Ok, now I'm getting confused. According to Zoomie, a "car" is "a specific race car, not all cars of the same type". So should I take that to mean, since you're criticising me for only having drawn up one car when I posted the picture, that you're already planning to make the #1 Owens-Corning L88 Roadster (I'd be surprised, because I don't think you're planning on making ANY roadster), or is everyone singing from a different hymn sheet here? And please tell me, given that people are running around all over the place releasing this, that and the other car, why you're so offended that I might dare to wonder aloud whether anyone aside from me is interested in having this particular car in the game now, as opposed to some time in the future? Stepping on your toes much?

Oh, but no...

[QUOTE]you can get all the help you want and release an "half arsed" car now

...I forgot, didn't I? Obviously no one can step on your toes because you're the only ones who can put a half-decent car together. The rest of us are a bunch of halfwits, aren't we?

Not sure what your problem is

This is another question I've already answered, but for the sake of clarity I'll say it again. My problem is that I approached this 'community' with a simple request for information (helpfully answered by HR186S - thank you) and an innocent enquiry as to its members' interest in (and let's all read these words together nice and slow) an entertaining addon for a computer game. In return I've been all but lynched by a group of people who appear to believe they have the exclusive right to moderate the entertainment of the little people, and who like to deal with meddling strangers by talking irrelevant and patronising crap at them until they go away and hang themselves. You guys really are great ambassadors for this site.

Anyway, it's a non-issue. No one's interested, so I'll happily keep it to myself. Simple.

Is anyone still confused?

[Zoomie]

With your attitude I hardly think you're worth helping. :mad:

You're just thinking about you own damn self here. Snide remarks and picking at words (taking them out of context too) is really a great way to get help from people :rolleyes:.

We've helped many other people, and they have helped us in return, and still are.

And please tell me, given that people are running around all over the place releasing this, that and the other car, why you're so offended that I might dare to wonder aloud whether anyone aside from me is interested in having this particular car in the game now, as opposed to some time in the future? Stepping on your toes much?


Because the other add-ons don't require us to do anything extra. Again, we help where and when we are able to (i'll repeat that whether you like it or not). Why did you post it here anyway. You could have approached via PM, but chose not to. Did you want a bunch of forum users posting how much they want the car, and maybe try to force our hand?

"Has anyone got" does not mean "Will someone please drop everything and produce".


You know the release the schedule (apparently), and you know the car is not in the mod yet, so what makes you think we had it already? What, we just sit on it for fun?

Anyway, it's a non-issue. No one's interested, so I'll happily keep it to myself. Simple.


What's this crap you keep repeating as well. Again, trying to get community support to force our hand?

We also don't represent nogripracing btw, so don't paint everyone involved here with the same brush you've decided to use on us.

My problem is that I approached this 'community' with a simple request for information (helpfully answered by HR186S - thank you) and an innocent enquiry as to its members' interest in

You got a response from someone in our team and chose to end your response to that with:

Obviously no one is, though

Why would he ask if he had no interest?

If you stopped assuming nonsense and been less impatient this thread would have gone alot better.

[DucFreak]

Anyway, it's a non-issue. No one's interested, so I'll happily keep it to myself. Simple.

OH NO!!! :eek: ...not that!!! *jumps off a cliff*

... :rolleyes:


Is anyone still confused?

I don't know, can't talk for the others... for me there isn't anything more needed to say...

I believe my confusion was thinking you wanted help from the GTLW team to put your car into the P&G mod (that we're still building as you already know), to give it the same quality all the other cars have (and will be receiving)... but it seems you're obviously well into it on your own...

Good luck with the L88 roadster (and the suspension physics file), I think you'll find enough people here to help you with it. :up:


PS: I would be interested in the car.

[Bodie]

With your attitude I hardly think you're worth helping.

Please explain what you think my attitude is. Perhaps I've got a tendency to talk down to people like I own the place?

Because the other add-ons don't require us to do anything extra.

Uh-huh. Just like this one, as you'd understand if you'd bothered to take in anything I've said. If someone comes up to you in the street and asks if you've got change for a phone box, do you stand and verbally assault them for not having the patience to wait while you go to work for a month, get paid, go to the bank, get some cash out, go to the shops and buy a mobile phone so he can use that instead? Or do you just say "Sorry mate, I haven't got any on me"?

You could have approached via PM, but chose not to.

Yes, next time, rather than post a simple query in the forum-most-likely, I'll be sure to PM all 58,740 members individually (apart from you, obviously) to ask any questions I might have. Because life really isn't short enough.

You know the release the schedule (apparently), and you know the car is not in the mod yet, so what makes you think we had it already? What, we just sit on it for fun?

I had no idea whether you were working on it, planning to work on it, had worked on it or anything else. I thought it was a simple enough question. My mistake.

What's this crap you keep repeating as well. Again, trying to get community support to force our hand?

Christ, how full of your own self-importance are you? Why the hell would you think I'm remotely interested in investing any energy into rousing a conspiracy on an internet forum to force someone to make a computer game mod quicker than they want to do it? Your life might be that empty, but I've got a thousand and one better things to do. When I say that I'm happy to keep something to myself, it means I'm happy to keep it to myself. That's all. If you want to infer some sinister hidden agenda, that's your psychosis.

We also don't represent nogripracing btw, so don't paint everyone involved here with the same brush you've decided to use on us.

Don't worry, I'm very discerning.

If you stopped assuming nonsense and been less impatient this thread would have gone alot better.

I'm impatient for you to stop trying to beat me into submission by deliberately taking everything I say out of context and/or refusing to listen to what I'm saying. Apart from that, I'm quite content.

Thank you for your input. Please don't talk to me any more.

I believe my confusion was thinking you wanted help from the GTLW team to put your car into the P&G mod (that we're still building as you already know), to give it the same quality all the other cars have (and will be receiving)... but it seems you're obviously well into it on your own...

Good luck with the L88 roadster (and the suspension physics file), I think you'll find enough people here to help you with it. :up:

Fair play to you. I'm glad we now understand each other.

[Aristotelis]

Bodie, I'll talk to you frankly, no matter how you will react on this.
Here's the timeline of this thread.
You post a gorgeous pic of a great corvette roadster and saying the following
Hi. Is anyone interested in this? If so, can you help with the physics? I'm hopeless at it.

2nd post is mine. I was stunned by the car and wanted to know if anyone knows any historical info about this car. I wanted to know this because I would LOVE to have this car and do physics for it. My post was probably not clear enough to make you understand that, so I apologise.

And here is your 3rd post,
On this car in particular, or the L88 roadsters in general? The L88s dominated SCCA road racing in the late 60s, with the Owens-Corning roadsters taking 22 straight victories. The one above is Tony DeLorenzo's #1 car, which accounted for a good number of those wins. Detailed stats are difficult to come by - it just happens to be the only skin I've done so far.
Great info!
but from here, everything goes bad and worse....


I'm not bothered if no one wants to make use of it - I'm quite happy playing with it on my own!
Why? you got just one answer, no one else had the time to respond yet? What is it? A childish like behavior for not having the whole forum cheering and shouting out loud in amazement in two minutes after your post??

Just thought the existing model might benefit from a proper L88 hood cowl and an (optional) roadster body, and since I don't know whether anyone's working on converting the crappy French physics for use with P&G, I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.
And you thought well! It didn't hurt, on the contrary, we would be proud and honoured to have such a nice model on the mod. We just didn't had the time to respond! We are not working on this staff 24h/7days a week. We have real lifes and posting on a forum is occasional as everybody else.

Obviously no one is, though.
Again? why? what is this martyr like post? Who said anything? Noone had the time! You posted like this just one day after the initial post. I mean, give the people sometime to react no?

From that post and on, it all goes downwards. You trying to look like a martyr, a beaten up child that is being oppressed by the bad dictators that the members of P&G are... that is what you're writting post after post. WHY? Because you're so full of yourself to admit that you over reacted? Because you demanded all the community to stand up and cheer just 2 minutes after you posted?

So what is wrong really? Do you really think we have nothing more to do than to talk bad of people like you that are willing enough to offer mods to the community? Haven't you noticed that we are doing the same thing here? We are the same. So why the hate? we could have help each other. Or is it so difficult for you to understand that it might be some kind of communication problem? Heck, I'm a greek living in Italy, trying to post in english on a Forum! Do you expect me to talk to your native language and be perfectly clear to you? Have a little understand will you?

You know what? This thread is one of the pointless threads I've ever seen. I'll stop here and go and have a beer and a laugh tonight. Might work well for you too.

[dangio]

Oh, for God's sake.
<snip>

Is anyone still confused?

Only you dude.

[SpecialKS]

Please release it!! Fantastic car.

[Sphara]

Who is on first. What is on second.

Abbot and Costello

[Bodie]

What is it? A childish like behavior for not having the whole forum cheering and shouting out loud in amazement in two minutes after your post??

We just didn't had the time to respond! We are not working on this staff 24h/7days a week. We have real lifes and posting on a forum is occasional as everybody else.

From that post and on, it all goes downwards. You trying to look like a martyr, a beaten up child that is being oppressed by the bad dictators that the members of P&G are... that is what you're writting post after post. WHY? Because you're so full of yourself to admit that you over reacted? Because you demanded all the community to stand up and cheer just 2 minutes after you posted?

So what is wrong really? Do you really think we have nothing more to do than to talk bad of people like you that are willing enough to offer mods to the community? Haven't you noticed that we are doing the same thing here? We are the same. So why the hate? we could have help each other. Or is it so difficult for you to understand that it might be some kind of communication problem? Heck, I'm a greek living in Italy, trying to post in english on a Forum! Do you expect me to talk to your native language and be perfectly clear to you? Have a little understand will you?

You know what? This thread is one of the pointless threads I've ever seen. I'll stop here and go and have a beer and a laugh tonight. Might work well for you too.

Ok, first of all, I'm in a good mood so please bear that in mind.

'Communication problem' is clearly the key phrase here. I'm sure if we were all fluent in each other's native languages, and we all used the same words to describe the same things, none of this would have happened. And yes, it's pointless and I've been trying to put an end to it for a whole day - but apparently that just makes me a martyr! :rolleyes:

I want to make one thing very clear: all these accusations of attempted martyrdom and rabble-rousing are 90% of what's keeping this argument going. As I've already tried to explain, I'm not interested in cheering. When I say something like 'never mind' or 'I'll do it myself' or 'ok, I guess that's a no', it means exactly that. It doesn't mean 'boo hoo, I feel rejected and I want everyone to feel sorry for me'. It means that I really, really am not offended in the slightest, that I couldn't care less if no one shares my opinion or is interested in my 'work' (which becomes fairly clear when many people look at it and no one has anything to say), and that I am perfectly content to go and do my own thing with no hard feelings whatsoever. I understand that a lot of people like to try and drum up sympathy by falling on their own sword, but I'm not one of them. In my line of work, I'd go mad in a week if I took stuff like that personally. So please, for everyone's sake, stop accusing me of it and I'll stop reacting to it!

And for the record, yes, I'm sure that like me you've got a thousand and one better things to do than to spend all day and all night talking to someone like me as if they're something you just scraped off the bottom of your shoe, but unfortunately that hasn't stopped certain people here from doing just that. You know, I'm actually a perfectly good-humoured, well-balanced, friendly bloke - and if you read my earlier posts with a smile rather than a frown, you might spot that - but I don't take kindly to being talked down to. I'm quite comfortable in knowing exactly what my strengths and weaknesses are, so I don't need them pointed out to me by random strangers on the internet, especially when they haven't listened to me well enough to make an accurate judgement. Is that fair enough? :)

Aris, thanks to you and to everyone else who's managed to say anything constructive. :up:

Dangio: I'm sure that comment seemed helpful to you when you wrote it.

Can we stop this ridiculousness now, or what? I'm too old for this sh


PS Aris, yes, I did misinterpret your first reply. Thanks for your interest. :)

[sunalp2]

Can we stop this ridiculousness now, or what? I'm too old for this sh


I think that says it all. :)