About a "total realism" league ? [Archive]

View Full Version : About a "total realism" league ?

IbnSolmyr

25 January 10, 18:20

Hey guys,

i hope that this will not offense neither the site nor the fantastic organisation work made by guys like Psy, Cap7, Geoffers, or obviously, Laverda and others i'm not naming, nor even the all GTL\P&G drivers, but :

I would be very interested in a "Total Realism League" : i explain me ; this would be some events with :

a) No auto gear.
b) No auto clutch.
c) Cockpit view.

Even if i'm conscient that this would close the door to some guys because not having the material :crying:, this could be great i think for battles as for videos of these battles. :-) , and even for more realism. Personaly, even if i wasn't and am not anymore a good driver, i was able, when i posseded a simple wheel (with 2 pedals only) to manage times that are difficult to do now, with a G25. It was more easy, particularly because the toe and heel simulation with 2 pedals was very easy to measure in comparison.

What's your feeling with this ? Let me now your impressives. ;-)

Obviously we would organise it with Gamers-Crib and Albierbude, for more buddys and so more pleasure.

P-S : i have to notice that i'm very happy to drive on SNR and WNR with you all guys, and this will not change. :thumbup:

Sorry for my poor english, and for maybe have not posted it on the right place.

rookiedaz

25 January 10, 20:03

IbnSolmyr

26 January 10, 01:20

Think you'll find most people use at least 2 of those criteria solmyr. The only one some may not think of is disabling autoclutch, but I'm sure most SNR/WNR guys use manual gears and cockpit. I would qualify for your league though;-).....

Surely bud, and that's right but i didn't want to propose a modification of WNR/SNR, i will not permise myself, so i got this idea in the order to not exclude some guys of their preferred events ;-) and however propose a complementary serie of events, where the politic could be : the more realistic as possible.

d) H pattern use for gears expected, obviously.

I'm so enjoyed that you could want to join it, Daz. Some other guys could be interested in ? :-)

Malcolm Reynolds

27 January 10, 23:19

I think 1 or 2 of our regulars use the the bonnet view, I think everyone uses manual gears - I have a G25 so I use the clutch pedal/H gear shifrter too. But it would be nice if we only had cockpit and bonnet views available. Drivers who use the chase view (swingman) can have an unfair advantage I believe, but they also water down the whole experience for themselves.

se7en76

28 January 10, 01:59

That's an idea for which I totally agree, even if I never raced here yet with u all guys.
Brother Solmyr has convinced me to get a G25 in order to reveal the natural driving reflexes. I imagine this will help in spite of the lack of G or other movements. I'm ok to join asap but not immediately cause I'm very busy at this time... Thanks for the initiative !
Take care over the track ;-)

JJC1

28 January 10, 07:45

I fail to see how forcing others to drive in cockpit view enhances one's own enjoyment.
I presume it's because it is thought that it makes it a more fair and equal contest for all?
I think that is a mis-conception.

People who like the "realism" of that view, will use it anyway, so this restriction would not affect them in any way (good or bad)

But you would exclude those who have small monitors (cockpit view wastes more than half your pixels). If those people are forced into the cockpit, then you are imposing a handicap on them (and that's not fair or equal)

Disallowing auto gearbox and clutch will exclude some with physical disabilities and/or low spec wheels. In order to compete without those aids these people would have to become even more skilled at pressing buttons than they already are. (again not fair or equal)

I predict that the races would not be closer, or more enjoyable and that the only effect will be fewer drivers on your grid. ;-)

IbnSolmyr

1 February 10, 20:34

Sorry to have not answered earlier, i was very busy.

I understand what you say Laverda and think this is right, but as i said before, i never wanted to propose an SNR\WNR reform. I was more thinking about a new championship (for example Saturday afternoon..) which would permise to manage some good moments too, even if some guys could not participate at this one particularly, because of with full realism options\material configurations limits. I hoped that a maximum of people had a 3rd pedal for clutch, but i may be wrong.

In fact, i have to ask : Who could participate in some events in these conditions ?

But, after all, it would just be an event in more. :-)

JJC1

2 February 10, 01:52

S'ok Sol I do understand that you are proposing something separate. :-)

But I still don't understand. What extra enjoyment are you offering me?
(I use cockpit view)

KDiesel

2 February 10, 08:20

maeckie

2 February 10, 11:16

what do u expect will change in the races ?

from inside my car it dont make no difference, if the other cars use a different viewsight or with/without clutch , it could only decimate the grid.

just leave it up to everyone ! races dont get more realistic , in the worst scenario they get even worse, cause some peeps need to get used to cockpit view, or/and drive without manual clutch..

saturday afternoon is a nice time though !

IbnSolmyr

2 February 10, 15:15

I use cockpit view & manual gears, I´ve only 2 pedals so no manual clucth. I can drive with manual clutch ,but it´s really difficult with out pedal( I "simulate" double clutching with throttle).

Kimi
:-P That's a great work ! I didn't think it was possible to do that. ;-)

@ All : Okay guys forget it. It was a bad idea or at least, a too optimistic one. Hoping that i didn't offend anybody.
However it seems that some of you could be interested in a Saturday afternoon event (with same rules as SNR\WNR), so what do you think about it ?

> Saturday afternoon ? (for let us a social life in the evening.. :mrgreen:)
> Endurance ? (1h ? ; 1h30 ? ; 2h ?)
or
> Few short races ? (30mn ? ; x2 ? ; x3 ?, more flexibility)
> SNR\WNR Track ? (for less preparation efforts and more racing time)
> All cars used in SNR\WNR ? More ? Less ? What do you think about racing in an other class than SNR\WNR ?
> Championship ? free races ?

misnoimis

2 February 10, 17:04

I sort of sympathise with IbnSolmyr. I also am a fan of total realism. I race in simulation mode and use a G25 racing wheel, peddles and H gear change and clutch and always use the bonnet view as I am using a steering wheel and don’t wish to see a second one on screen. I disable ALL driver aids. This is what I enjoy. I have no problem with anyone that enjoys racing an indestructible car in easy mode with all driver aids selected and likes to lap the entire field during a race. It’s all about enjoyment. I usually race on about eight British tracks and can beat the AI on most and qualify on pole quite often. I struggle on a couple of tracks for some reason. Thinking I might be quite quick I thought of entering some online events. I looked at a race for Elan’s at Bridgehampton which whetted my appetite. So I downloaded 67 Bridgehampton (great track) and spent a couple of hours practicing in an Elan. I was close to the best AI lap times and faster than the slower ones. I thought I was doing pretty well. However when I checked the online race and qualifying lap times I was brought down to earth with a bump. Now I have some idea how to set a car up but these were so much quicker than my times and the best AI times that I felt it best not to bother as I would be too slow. Is it that some drivers are racing with driver aids or are they really that quick racing realistically?

rafnix

2 February 10, 17:29

Sorry, missed that thread as I'm searching for years now without success, every league I made such proposal goes for the quantity of people and don't want to loose not one.
For me personal the very few full simmers are more into the passion a simulation could generate towards reality than into best possible result of races. At least that's my very own experience.

As for manual clutch I've set it to a certain button on my wheel since day one and adjusted the in game rate to my own purpose.

So I'ld like to join, thanks for opening this thread

Cale

2 February 10, 17:38

Is it that some drivers are racing with driver aids or are they really that quick racing realistically?

All WNR and SNR races are ran in professional mode. So none of the helps (steering, braking, traction control, anti-lock brakes, damage, stability) are available. Only "helps" allowed are automatic gearbox and automatic clutch. I think most of us use manual gears and clutch as they are the faster way to go.

I usually race on about eight British tracks and can beat the AI on most and qualify on pole quite often. I struggle on a couple of tracks for some reason. Thinking I might be quite quick I thought of entering some online events...

You definitely should come and race online. It's just so much better than racing AI. And you shouldn't worry too much about being quick. The emphasis in WNR is on fair racing more than being the fastest. :thumbup:

rookiedaz

2 February 10, 20:24

I can only repeat what Cale says misnoimis, all aids are off except those who choose auto box or clutch, virtually none for the former and a few for the latter though. All drivers of all abilities are welcome at all WNR events, all you have to be is of a gentlemanly state of mind, and not disposed of taking people out.

And maybe that car/track combo is a bit misleading too, as the Elan is quite tricky, and so was the track. Have a look at this weeks combo, see how you get on, you would be more than welcome to join. You say you are worried about being slow, or getting in the way, but there would always be someone doing similar times I bet. Seriously, racing the AI is ok for a bit of practise, but does not compare to online, not even close....

Tomorrow nights combo....

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187093

IbnSolmyr

3 February 10, 01:26

@ misnoimis and rafnix : Come on, guys ! :-) Your presence will be appreciated on a WNR event ! As Cale and Daz said, online racing is very much more interestning than with AI. (a part from the lags, disconnexions..etc)
Concerning the laptimes, don't worry ! I was exactly in your situation : at the beginning, i tought that the drivers were "cutting" a lot ! :-D Since, i learnt a bit in car setting and driving and now i understand why i improved my level too : because i met some quicker guys ! But as it was said, to be fast is not very important, you'll find some others guys in your wheels, and that's the most important. I often begin my 2nd WNR race without qualif' time, because to be in the pack is very pleasant and learns a lot.

See you tomorrow ? :-P :-)

KDiesel

3 February 10, 08:25

...fair racing is more important than success...

misnoimis

3 February 10, 16:17

Thanks to Cale, rookiedaz and IbnsSolmyr for encouragement. I have a meeting to attend this evening but will take another look and will have a go at a WNR event in the near future. I also believe in fair racing.

psyfungi

3 February 10, 19:24

IbnSolmyr

4 February 10, 00:46

Interesting post and comments. No offence taken by me at all.

Personally, I've got a G25 and I run Cockpit View and Manual Gears. I leave Auto-Clutch on, but wouldn't be surprised if I could learn to live without out (Switching from Bonnet view to Cockpit took all of two races before I was a convert)

I'll echo many other comments here:

1. Not sure I see what it gains us when we're already in Professional mode.
2. It's a little discriminatory to those with 2-pedal setups or a physical need for auto-gear.

Personally, to try to extend myself as a driver I've been looking at some RFactor F1. Now THAT takes skill.

You would test the manual clutch, i'm sure you'll be quickly converted ;-)

Forget the "total realism", i admitted that wasn't a good idea, in fact.

What RFactor F1 mod do you use ? I tested PilotesOnlines ' one. 'looked like rather realistic, but this obviously is a very different driving. That's even an other job.

psyfungi

4 February 10, 19:28

...What RFactor F1 mod do you use ? I tested PilotesOnlines ' one. 'looked like rather realistic, but this obviously is a very different driving. That's even an other job.

It's been a couple of months - had several wipes/reinstalls of the new machine. But I was playing with the 2005 F1 mod and also had a quick look at the 2008 mod.

Via Reddit/r/Formula1 I found this group (http://www.f1elites.com/index.php) which I would vaguely consider looking into further.