RWD, pseudo-Escort

[juls]

Hello, :wave:

I made the impreza 2003 a FWD and then I swapped front and rear wheels using text files in physics.rbz.

It works. :up: ..it gives easily a RWD car without changing at all the suspension geometry, it is also possible to adjust car properties in the game (you just have to remember that front changes affect rear). The only problem is that handbrake affects front wheels now, but there is so much oversteer that you don't need it at all.

To have something nicer to drive, I applied torque and gears from escort, and also escort mass, CofG, inertia and wheelbase. It still has suspension geometry of the subaru, but I reduced spring strength and tyre presure to have something easier to control (you feel mass transfer easily).

To try it, just replace physics.rbz (keep a copy) and start any gravel/earth track with subaru 2003. It does not work on snow or asphalt for the moment.
push very carefully the accelerator, it does not forgive any mistake. I needed to lower a lot my accelerator sensitivity with controller filter to be able to drive it. Space between wheels look strange on replays, it's normal... wheels are closer.
Previously saved settings can't be applied on this car, but you can change the car and save settings.

Please tell me what you think about it.

[Pero_Grozni]

Feels prety good. I wondered why the guy over at RSC went into geometry changes anyway as with switched oordinates it should work OK as you proved :up:

The car feels very good :up: and some nice slides are possible(just did a quick test) and overall it feels a bit like RT on very slippy gravel. Interestingly forward grip is very low with this and you get wheelspin with third no problem-infact you get wheelspin all through to fourth. Now is this connected to the tiremodel or is it just that the car has too much power?

This is important to me as I would like to get a simmilar feel to RBR with the RT cars and am wondering just how different the sideways to forward grip in RBR are. The ratio certanly cant be close to 1:1 following this test.
Saying that-I want a better feel as RBR feels a bit off on the tires to me-especially on tarmac.

Otherwise great work as usual Juls :up: There must ba a way to get the handbrake to work on the rear wheels as well-I would love to try the french hairpins with RWD :twisted:

[RTS013]

Great news, havn't tried it out yet cause my wheel broke down a few weeks ago... and RBR can't be driven without a wheel! But I will buy a new one this weekend.

[juls]

Yes, rear tyres are spinning too easily.... :confused:
I think it does not come from the tyres, but acceleration is too strong, even if I reduced torque to fit escort data.

Maybe it is caused by the turbo. (MG ZR has different turbo settings)
I will try to override turbo settings to remove it and calm down the beast.

It can also come from gears definition. For each gear there are two numbers, pinion and gear.
gear/pinion is the gear ratio...so I changed pinion to have escort ratios, but left gear unchanged. Maybe the problem is there.

In a general way, grip problems in RBR seems to come from a too strong acceleration. On France tarmac for example, if you avoid strong acceleration (stay where the loud engine noise is, before the point where the whistling noise suddenly raises) you have then a grip which feels far more real.
Maybe acceleration is not too strong, but at least it is not progressive enough...

RBR could be easier than RT for editing (excepted suspension) for the following reasons:

- meshes contain no physical information at all. You can move the wheels like you want without changing mesh...mesh only brings visual effect and collision meshes.
- tyre description seems to be more understandable. Instead of using coefficients used later to calculate friction curves internally, text files directly contain some curves. And one file contains everything.
- tyre model is definitely more accurate. It models how deep the tyre enters the ground, and how it pushes the ground when sliding. That's why you can recover from spinning on soft track and car turns more easily upside down out of the track.

[Midi]

Well, i can't drive this damn thing :D

I had to change steering lock much bigger, after that i managed to keep it on the road. Definetly too much power. I believe there will be great RWD cars for RBR in future, keep going :up: :trophy:

[juls]

Found the problem

In RBR they have gear ratio, rear axle ratio and also gear drop (forgot it)....so final drive ratio is wrong. Too much torque given to wheels

This correction should reduce a bit the torque...but it will not solve the problem...turbo should be the solution.

I will post a corrected version this evening.

[SierraBAR]

FINALLY RWD!!!! :D :D :D This escort must be cossie powered :D
It feels pretty good, although it is very hard to drive with such torque.

[Florenzo]

Tried it. Very nice and good work. :up:

I hope somebody can open the 3d file and then... :cool:

[juls]

Ok there was a problem with torque...there was still a turbo and rear axle ratio was not OK.
Now everything seems right, turbo removed, and you can judge by yourself.

For those who already tried the first version, try this one, it is different like night and day.
:P

[Dan]

bah I really want to try this, but everytime I try to start the game it crashes and I have to do a hard reset :( (it does this with or without your modded file BTW)

does anybody know which file has the driver profile/progress etc in so I can reinstall and test this rwd ?

[Florenzo]

Fantastic, V0.2 is sooo great. I love it :up: :trophy:

Thank you man! :wave:

[Midi]

Yes, amazing, good job :up:

:trophy:

[Imagine]

does anybody know which file has the driver profile/progress etc in so I can reinstall and test this rwd ?

Sorry Dan if i'm stupid and missundersteand you :dood:

if you wan't to know what files to save and "import" it after new game install to keep your times you need to keep SavedGames folder in whitch you will find

pfDan.acm
pfDan.rbr
pfresult.rst

and some setups?

btw-i would keep GhostCars and Replays folder :wave:

btw2-i really hope that this new version will be better then the last one :o

[Dan]

thanks Imagine, thats exactly what I wanted :wave:

I *think* the problem is I changed cpu .. before that it worked fine :confused:

[Imagine]

this version is still not "perfect" but it is so much to drive then the old one ;) vhat about " realistic" suspension :confused:

Juls,I hope you don't mind -i have put a link at RSC :dood: becouse i thougth that you will get bigger feedback and few more oppinions :)

btw-Dan i just thought that I didn't understeand you becouse you usuall know everything conected to comp. so this would be a "peace a cake" for you ...

[mickyknox]

Great work :up:

The second one is great fun, and watching replays sort of reminds me of a mk2 escort :)
This really is great news for the possibility of modding RBR, and I applaud and appreciate your efforts (and it's down to Imagine's post at RSC that I found this, so thanks to both of you ;) )

Good luck with your progress,
Simon :up:

[Jack57]

Excellent work - greatly appreciated!! :woohoo:

Now all we need is a new model.

Many thanks,
Jack :sherlock:

[mole2k]

Greatly appreciated this, I got emailed the link but also seen it over at RSC.

It feels pretty good so far. Im looking to bombing up the french mountains in a powerfull Millington Diamond powered MK2 Escort.

http://mole2k.purelyartistic.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=1&pos=13

[Dan]

btw-Dan i just thought that I didn't understeand you becouse you usuall know everything conected to comp. so this would be a "peace a cake" for you ...

just trying out what its like on the other side , asking instead of answering ;)

[Midi]

...and watching replays sort of reminds me of a mk2 escort :)

That's exactly what happend to me, i tryed to imagine escort in the game and :OMG: i saw some really nice slides :D

[juls]

:) thank you for the nice comments.

Today I will make it work for tarmac too, and try to reduce car track size, because it is still 8 centimeters more than the escort...hope it will not mess with the suspensions.

I will try to understand better suspension in RBR to copy the real ones...do you kno where I can find info about the escort geometry?

Imagine: No problem for the link. I am not sure this very early version diserves such an audience, but thank you. Anyway, it looks like in RSC they are very busy or not interested...they never answered when I asked for RWD.

[juls]

That's it now it also works for tarmac.
Track narrower (easier to turn upside down :( )
Tires are narrower (18 cms instead of 20)
I reduced tire grip by 10% to be closer from old tires.
Springs are now harder, rollbars too...it was a bit too soft on gravel.

[juls]

To have the car more responsive during slides, the best rollbar setting I found:
rear: 15 KN/m
front: 0 KN/m

[SierraBAR]

Good work. It feels really great. Now it rolls much more easier, if you cut too much. Could you make documented files from those you have edited? So we could understand those files too, or somekind of like tutorial.

[Midi]

Very nice, i'm rolling all over the place every turn :D

[BlaBla]

:OMG: very good news :cool: , but:
I have just bought it for PS2. Game is much fun, but after 2 days I got a bit bored, because I need the old cars. And now I hear, that you really get an accurate RWD-feeling. If some classic-cars are in the game, I have to buy it for computer, too :(

[pepe2]

Great work juls.

Now the only thing is 3d...

[mole2k]

I had been hoping there would be a version that worked on tarmac and here it is :D

It feels great to drive although i find the hairpins hard going to keep the revs high enough to be able to kick the rear end out while still slowing down enough to get the front end pointing in.

[moikkavaan]

I think the unrealistically massive flywheel that even the 4WD cars suffer from seems like the biggest problem currently present in the RWD mod.

When the rear wheels loose grip because of too much throttle it takes unrealistically long time before revs slow down and grip to be regained. I feel that you have compensated for this effect by taking too much power out from the engine so that powerslides do not even start even at full throttle in many places.

If somebody could figure out how the engine revs could be modified to slow down quicklier after release of throttle it would allow much more realistic RWD experience and much more FUN throwing the car around.

[juls]

I didn't reduce the engine power. I used default values.
I know that if I reduce engine and gearbox inertia, I can get what you want...turns go down faster.

Problem can come from two things:
- even with the reduced grip, tyres still have too much grip compared to escort tyres.
- too high engine and gearbox inertia.

I will try to play with these settings.

[pepe2]

Please, if somebody can, make video of driving this ''Escort'' in gravel. :)

[MudSnow]

What files are the engine physics in? I can't find them. :confused:

[Mr_Ford]

i cant see the download link? im going craaaaazy buhuuuu :OMG:

[Mr_Ford]

WOHOOO! now i can f****** great stuff man i luv this! :up: :up: :up: now we only missing the 3d hopefully it will come soon :)

[Mr_Ford]

is it possible to make this work on snow too??? pliiiiiz :bowdown:

[MudSnow]

You can make it work on snow by copying the gravel physics and naming to snow. This is not perfect but will work for a little while, until correct files are made. :)