Tyre Question - durability/longevity?

[jbodin]

I'm putting together some race setups and I'm trying to figure out which of the available tyre compounds has the BEST durability in dry conditions? Also, how do the durability ratings in the P&G Owners Manual pdf file stack-up? For example, the durability ratings for the various compounds are listed in terms of "good," "moderate," "excellent," and "bad," but I'm not sure I understand how these ratings are ordered, or what they really mean in terms of longevity in a race.

Here's how I THINK the ratings work:

EXCELLENT - best wear characteristics
MODERATE - very good (better than average) wear characteristics
GOOD - average wear characteristics
BAD - poor wear characteristics

In choosing a compound and trying to determine a pit strategy for a race, this info is important, but the temperature ranges and optimum temps also com into account, I would think, with the optimum temp indication modifying the durability rating.

Looking at the info in the P&G Owners Manual, this is how all the compounds are listed along with their durability and optimum temp ratings:



R5 D9 - DRY
Durability - GOOD
Optimum Temp - 85C

R5 D12 - WET
Durability - EXCELLENT
Optimum Temp - 75C (overheating on dry conditions)

R6 L D9 - DRY
Durability - GOOD
Optimum Temp - 85C

R6 L D12 - Green Spot - WET
Durability - EXCELLENT
Optimum Temp - 75C (less overheating on dry conditions)

R6 M D9 - DRY
Durability - GOOD
Optimum Temp - 85C

R6 M D12 - Green Spot - WET
Durability - EXCELLENT
Optimum Temp - 75C (less overheating on dry conditions)

R7 - Yellow Spot - DRY
Durability - MODERATE
Optimum Temp - 85C

R7 - Green Spot - DRY
Durability - GOOD
Optimum Temp - 85C

R7 - Red Spot - WET
Durability - EXCELLENT
Optimum Temp - 75C

R7 - White Spot - WET
Durability - BAD
Optimum Temp - 85C



Using this info and assuming that you have a setup that achieves optimum tyre temp with no hot spots, this is how I would rank the various compounds in terms of durability to determine which tyre will be the most likely to last the longest in dry race conditions (this is my assumption of how they compare, anyway -- basically hardest to softest, with the assumption that older tyres are harder than newer tyres):

R5 D9 (hardest compound, best durability in dry conditions)
R6 L D9
R6 M D9 (softer than L D9)
R7 Yellow Spot
R7 Green Spot (Wet/Dry)
R5 D12
R6 L D12 Green Spot
R6 M D12 Green Spot
R7 Red Spot
R7 White Spot (softest, worst durability in dry conditions)

Are these assumptions off-base, or am I thinking correctly? The "Moderate" durability rating given for the R7 Yellow Spot is a bit confusing -- not sure if "Moderate" is supposed to indicate that it's better than "Good" or worse than "Good"? Also, I'm not sure how the "less overheating in dry conditions" notation in the P&G Owners Manual modifies things. Assuming that its a newer/softer compound and that the R5 and R6 compounds are older/harder, I would assume that the R5/R6 tyres have more tread life in dry competition.

:confused:

Anyway, I've been studying the listed info for a while trying to puzzle things out in order to determine what tyre to choose for an upcoming league race, and I'd like to know if my assumptions are correct. I'll be doing some race-length runs over the weekend to see how the tyres wear, but I'd like to go in with a decent set of assumptions, so feedback and corrections are most welcome (and hopefully others will benefit from this discussion, too).

[David Wright]

I didn't communicate the difference between the D9 and D12 compounds clearly enough to Aris and there is a mistake in the initial manual and physics which was corrected. The D9 compound is harder than the D12 (green spot), it provides less grip but it lasts longer.

Also Good is better than Moderate.

[jbodin]

Thanks for the response, David -- I suspected it would be you who would reply first!

;)

Based on your comments, then the durability ratings break down as follows:

EXCELLENT - best wear characteristics
GOOD - average wear characteristics
MODERATE - less than average wear characteristics
BAD - poor wear characteristics

With that, and with the knowledge that the D9 is the hard compound and the D12 is the more soft compound, I would modify my initial list as follows:



R5 D9 (hard) - DRY
Durability - GOOD
Optimum Temp - 85C

R5 D12 (soft) - WET
Durability - EXCELLENT
Optimum Temp - 75C (overheating on dry conditions)

R6 L D9 (hard) - DRY
Durability - GOOD
Optimum Temp - 85C

R6 L D12 (soft) - Green Spot - WET
Durability - EXCELLENT
Optimum Temp - 75C (less overheating on dry conditions)

R6 M D9 (hard) - DRY
Durability - GOOD
Optimum Temp - 85C

R6 M D12 (soft) - Green Spot - WET
Durability - EXCELLENT
Optimum Temp - 75C (less overheating on dry conditions)

R7 - Green Spot - DRY
Durability - GOOD
Optimum Temp - 85C

R7 - Yellow Spot - DRY
Durability - MODERATE
Optimum Temp - 85C

R7 - Red Spot - WET
Durability - EXCELLENT
Optimum Temp - 75C

R7 - White Spot - WET
Durability - BAD
Optimum Temp - 85C



Finally, using the info you provided, I believe this corrected list shows how the tyres are ordered in terms of hard-to-soft (most durable to least durable):

R5 D9 (hard -- hardest compound, most durable in dry conditions)
R6 L D9 (hard)
R6 M D9 (hard -- more soft than R6 L D9)
R7 Green Spot (hard -- more soft than R5/R6)
R7 Yellow Spot (hard -- softest of the hard tyres)
R5 D12 (soft)
R6 L D12 (soft) Green Spot
R6 M D12 (soft) Green Spot
R7 Red Spot (soft)
R7 White Spot (softest, least durable in dry conditions)

Is this more or less correct?

[jbodin]

Bump for David's attention -- still want to make sure my assumptions in my second post are correct.

:confused:

[jbodin]

Bump again, because Lucio's recent sticky titled "Power&Glory - the tyres and all you need to know about them!" really ISN'T all you need to know.

While the info contained in the P&G Owners Manual is great and extremely detailed, the terms used to categorize the longevity ratings for the tyres leaves some room for confusion, which is what I was trying to clear up with THIS thread. Unfortunately, Lucio locked his tyres sticky, so I can't respond there.

David's response above, though, clarifies the "Excellent," "Good," "Moderate," and "Bad" ratings for tyre longevity, but without David's clarification that Good is better than Moderate, the information in the P&G Owner's Manual (and the info that Lucio posted in his sticky) isn't totally clear, or at the very least it leaves room for mis-interpretation. Add this info to Lucio's sticky and NOW you've got all you need to know about tyres!

;)

Good sticky up above, Lucio -- thanks! Everybody needs to spend some time reading the P&G Owner's Manual if they haven't done so already!

:):up:

[DucFreak]

Bump again, because Lucio's recent sticky titled "Power&Glory - the tyres and all you need to know about them!" really ISN'T all you need to know.

While the info contained in the P&G Owners Manual is great and extremely detailed, the terms used to categorize the longevity ratings for the tyres leaves some room for confusion, which is what I was trying to clear up with THIS thread. Unfortunately, Lucio locked his tyres sticky, so I can't respond there.

David's response above, though, clarifies the "Excellent," "Good," "Moderate," and "Bad" ratings for tyre longevity, but without David's clarification that Good is better than Moderate, the information in the P&G Owner's Manual (and the info that Lucio posted in his sticky) isn't totally clear, or at the very least it leaves room for mis-interpretation. Add this info to Lucio's sticky and NOW you've got all you need to know about tyres!

;)

Good sticky up above, Lucio -- thanks! Everybody needs to spend some time reading the P&G Owner's Manual if they haven't done so already!

:):up:

Cheers mate, I think too that the tires info are an important one (the manual reading is "a must"!), let's just wait on David's response and I'll update the thread then. :up:

[jbodin]

Cheers mate, I think too that the tires info are an important one (the manual reading is "a must"!), let's just wait on David's response and I'll update the thread then. :up:

Sounds like a plan to me -- great minds think alike!

;):up:

[jukez]

I was also confused about all these tyres. At first I thought that because R5 is the oldest and R7 newest I will always choose one of the R7 compounds (if it is made available for a car).

But now I feel more confused about this. The above chart is very good, but lacks at least the property of handling precision (not always linear to tyre softness). Is there somebody who has made empirical investigation on this?

-Jukka

[Aristotelis]

Sorry for the very late response... I got so busy with V2.0 that I rarely look at the forum... sorry again guys :)

Very nice work jbodin but unfortunately I think you have based your chart on the old manual/physics. The latest v1.02 is correct and the manual is updated.

I have updated your chart for you, hope it helps.



Here's how I THINK the ratings work:

EXCELLENT - best wear characteristics
MODERATE - very good (better than average) wear characteristics
GOOD - average wear characteristics
BAD - poor wear characteristics

R5 D9 (hard) - DRY ok, WET ok
Durability - EXCELLENT
Optimum Temp - 85C

R5 D12 (soft) -DRY good, WET good
Durability - GOOD
Optimum Temp - 85C (overheating on dry conditions with heavy cars)

R6 L D9 (hard) - DRY ok, WET ok
Durability - EXCELLENT
Optimum Temp - 85C

R6 L D12 (soft) - Green Spot - DRY good, WET good
Durability - GOOD
Optimum Temp - 85C (less overheating on dry conditions)

R6 M D9 (hard) - DRY ok, Wet acquaplanning
Durability - EXCELLENT
Optimum Temp - 85C

R6 M D12 (soft) - Green Spot - DRY good, WET ok
Durability - GOOD
Optimum Temp - 85C (less overheating on dry conditions)

R7 - Green Spot - DRY ok
Durability - EXCELLENT
Optimum Temp - 85C

R7 - Yellow Spot - DRY good, DRY ok
Durability - MODERATE
Optimum Temp - 85C

R7 - Red Spot - DRY poor, WET ok
Durability - GOOD to EXCELLENT (depends on weight of the car, driving style, temp, rain ecc)
Optimum Temp - 75C

R7 - White Spot - DRY excellent, WET ok
Durability - BAD
Optimum Temp - 85C.

again, the latest manual has much more accurate description of everything tyres related. Just make sure you have the latest manual.