Shift: fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, ...

[GregP]

... shame on me. And that's what I am -- ashamed. Ashamed that I got fooled into buying Shift 2 Unleashed, when nothing has been changed from Shift 1. I am thoroughly disgusted with this title and want to do all I can to warn others about all of its faults.

When Shift 1 came out, I bought it on release day, struggled with it for a few weeks, and then finally threw up my hands in disgust and shelved it. The pitiful 'floaty' handling model destroyed any sense of connection with the car or road surface for me, rendering it unplayable. Sure, I've never driven a GT car, but I have put a lot of time into other titles like GTR2, rFactor, Race07, and iRacing, and NONE of them even remotely feel like Shift 1.

Then the S2U hype began to focus on this 'Elite' handling model that would improve all of the shortcomings of S1's model. We were told, "this is not a sim title...BUT, this is the most advanced driving physics model EVER." What they neglected to mention was that LITTLE to NONE of that supposedly enhanced physics model ACTUALLY TRANSLATES into any different feel when you're driving the cars, compared to S1. You know what "Elite" means? No driving aids! That's IT! Absolutely nothing else. So WTF good is it, then?

And the helmet cam? It does nothing but make the driving EVEN MORE unintuitive...it zooms out slightly (which is good) but then implements a springy look-to-apex effect that is simply disorienting.

I'll separate my gripes into two categories: things that should have been fixed from S1, and things that any modern racing game ought to have. Note that I'm using a Fanatec Porsche Turbo S Wheel and Clubsport Pedals on the PC version of S2U.


ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE:

1. No GUI option to skip the annoying intro movies. Yes, by default it's much better than the godawful 10-click startup process of S1, but now there's an intro movie that cannot be skipped until about 10 seconds in. WTF is the reason for this? NOTE: you can solve this problem by renaming [game dir]\Movies\BootFlow_in.bik and BootFlow_out.bik.

2. No intuitive way to skip the 'pan around the car five times' before each race. Sure, the grid girls are surprisingly pleasing to ogle, but do I really need to pan around the car five times before each and every race? Just put me in the %&*$#!%* car, dammit!!! NOTE: you can skip this by pushing JoyButton5, although the game never tells you that.

3. Exact same input lag from S1. No, it's not a framerate issue -- I've got a steady 60 FPS. This was a problem that made an unmodded S1 nearly impossible to play, and it's back again. You turn your steering wheel quickly, and you don't see the in-game steering wheel (and actual wheels on the car) turn for something like 1/4 to 1/2 second. This means you're continually out of sync with the car, leading to overcompensation. NOTE: This suggestion (http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1330200&postcount=33) significantly improved the input lag for me, but it's still not what it should be.

4. No kind of feel of connection with the road or tires. How on earth could any of the devs, or any of the testers, have felt that this handling model had any kind of real feel to it? There is absolutely no feel of connection with the ground or with the tires. You just 'float' through everything, like you're riding on a bubble of air that bounces over things. The wheel just turns in your hand without perceptible connection to what the wheels are doing.

5. No force feedback options. There are a lot of different kinds of wheels out there. WHY would you limit the FF options to 'strength' alone? The FF is awful. The wheel never stops being 'loose' in your hands. And this is at 100% strength.

6. AI that constantly rams into you. Even on the 'hard' AI difficulty, the AI cars are CONSTANTLY ramming into me; and I don't mean 'bumping into me', I really do mean RAMMING INTO ME, completely spinning me around, knocking me off course, and even flipping me over. WTF is going on with them? Does 'hard' simply mean 'aggressive'? How about 'discretion' or 'skill'? This is infuriating.

7. No steering lock angle adjustment. In the control options, steering lock can only be adjusted between 0 and 1. And how is that range determined? It seems to be specified in the ControllerDefaults file corresponding to your controller. I see from the PS3 version that actual wheel angle can be adjusted, but not so in the PC version. It might be able to be changed through the config file, but not in-game. Why?


THINGS THAT ANY RACING GAME OUGHT TO HAVE:

1. Adjustable FOV. Sure, there ought to be FOV limits to avoid accusations of cheating online, but having fixed in-car views with no FOV adjustment is just maddening. Everyone has their preference for FOV, and the in-car cam (NOT the helmet cam) just feels way too zoomed in.

2. Telemetry bars that actually make sense. On the telemetry HUD, there are green/red/yellow bars for the accelerator/brake/clutch. Before the pedals are pressed, all three bars are full height. When you then press, say, the brake, the red bar shrinks down to zero. Isn't this exactly opposite from what it should be? The bar should extend to its full length -- indicating full pedal depression -- when the pedal is fully down, NOT when it's fully UP.

3. Effective antialiasing. I've got AA on max in-game, and still the jaggies, even at 1920x1080, are ridiculous. What is so hard about implementing an effective AA level?


In the end, being proficient in S2U comes down to learning how to 'game the game': what combination of slipping and sliding do I need to perform to throw my car around the track in the fastest possible way? It has nothing to do with actually using driving skills or theory, because all of that is entirely missing from the handling model.

Shame on me for not learning my lesson from S1, but shame on SMS and EA for releasing the game in this state.

[KwameR]

Try running 220deg of rotation and see if that eliminates the steering deadzone, it did in shift1 for me....down from 540deg.

[DoktorR]

100% agree.

But because all this things, i never preorder or buy games before they released, so i always wait for feedback from tests or the community.

[ocram]

Then the S2U hype began to focus on this 'Elite' handling model that would improve all of the shortcomings of S1's model. We were told, "this is not a sim title...BUT, this is the most advanced driving physics model EVER." What they neglected to mention was that LITTLE to NONE of that supposedly enhanced physics model ACTUALLY TRANSLATES into any different feel when you're driving the cars, compared to S1.

This is it. The best physics model can't buy anything as long as it doesn't produce a comprehensible ffb.

[East]

Do you use the USB port from your PC (back/front)? Or do you use a power usb hub? I want to ask this so that we can eliminate any/all PC related hardware as the issue.

The reason why I asked is because I found that FFB/Rumble devices (such as gamepads, etc) appear to do better with one then without.

[Kazumi]

Sure, I've never driven a GT car, but I have put a lot of time into other titles like GTR2, rFactor, Race07, and iRacing, and NONE of them even remotely feel like Shift 1.
you missed live for speed and netkar pro?

lfs has wobbly unmodified (fictional) road cars. all nkp have cars with very loose rear, but it makes you spin every time you overdo it like you're driving on ice :thumbup:

shift 2 does both at the same time, but maybe not always at the correct time / load / speed and so on. especially not in normal mode for obvious reasons.

GTR2 has only very high downforce car. the are stable driving at 250 kph through any corner with full throttle. not my impression from GT1 2010 on all cars.

2. Telemetry bars that actually make sense. On the telemetry HUD, there are green/red/yellow bars for the accelerator/brake/clutch. Before the pedals are pressed, all three bars are full height. When you then press, say, the brake, the red bar shrinks down to zero. Isn't this exactly opposite from what it should be? The bar should extend to its full length -- indicating full pedal depression -- when the pedal is fully down, NOT when it's fully UP.

3. Effective antialiasing. I've got AA on max in-game, and still the jaggies, even at 1920x1080, are ridiculous. What is so hard about implementing an effective AA level?
looks like bugs. iirc they fixed one of the reversed bars in Shift 1 first patches, and ATi performance increased dramatically over time (mostly catalyst though) which at least seems sorted at S2U release.

[Siggs]

haters gunna hate

[helloworld]

Elite mode is pretty elite. You can kinda feel every wheel separately and it's scary. You can't frantically turn left and right and expect to stay on track. Especially if your ride height is...well, high.
Oversteer punishes you like never before when exiting a corner. You must slow down to regain control and these few vital milliseconds may cost you a victory.
What I find funny is that almost none of the cars are ready-to-go out of the box. They're drivable, sure, but the actual limit of the machine is much greater and to get that you need to tune the hell out of it. Fortunately this is one of the best and most enjoyable features in the game so far. Tune straight on the track, get instant feedback, etc. It's awesome.

Now, I can't say much about the controls, because I'm not a wheel owner myself. So, if someone says it's bad with wheel I take it for granted.
Gamepad is...horrific. I've done very little actual racing (12%). Most of the time just tuning on the track, playing around. It's just not playable with the pad (I've got a cheap Saitek crap what could be one of the reasons). As I said before, you can't swing the analog back and forth. Even letting the analog to center is way too much and 80% of the time it makes your blood boil. It just kicks the car out of control and if you're lucky you can somehow manage to hold it, but often it ends with a bang.
So, going fast is...simply not possible.

I haven't turned away from elite and I'm confident this will never happen. It's possible that the game is very playable with a pad or even a keyboard using Pro or Experienced settings, but that takes away the fun.

Helmet cam? I think it's cool. It was very disorienting and it actually took a while to get used to. In fact, I'm probably not 100% accustomed to it just yet. Especially since I haven't driven on all of the tracks with all of the cars. Each one might be slightly different and that could throw you off completely. I find it helpful in night races (I've had only like..2 so far).

It's real enough for me, but there thing is that there's no proper fear. They've said it's real and scary and all the rest of it, but it isn't. Why? Well, if you do crash, most of the time you're just going to lose the first place, that's all. So, after few crashes it isn't spectacular, it isn't scary or anything like that. It's just...annoying I guess.
I compare it to RBR where one mistake = complete and utter failure. There's no way around it. Get it wrong and you're going back to the starting line. For one thing, crashes don't happen all that often because of this. You may drive very slowly and carefully, but this is the beauty of it. Once you steadily start pushing the limits you can feel the adrenalin rising with every extra kph.
This doesn't happen in S2. Very rarely does it happen that you're forced to restart, because of some crash. I guess I'm a bit disappointed that a spectacular crash, effect and all the rest of it end up in nothing at all. Just turn your car around and continue. It really ruins the fear of crashing.

Other than that I'm happy with the game considering the fact that I'm not even able to play it atm. I'm currently trying to get things working with the mouse, because you really do need that extra smooth control. It's too hard to achieve it with a pad. Am I nuts choosing a mouse over gamepad?

[brrupsz]

It's too hard to achieve it with a pad. Am I nuts choosing a mouse over gamepad?

You aren't. I guess it's even better to play with mouse than wheel since ffb sucks hard. At least with old Sidewinder FFB its... well, there is almost no FFB really. Except kerbs maybe. Very loose, light feeling overall. Even after importing my special profile from S1. It seems that in S2 ffb is turned down a lot, no idea why.

[Eldi]

Wasnt ffb crap until the second patch in shift 1? I maybe be mistaken...

[GregP]

Do you use the USB port from your PC (back/front)? Or do you use a power usb hub? I want to ask this so that we can eliminate any/all PC related hardware as the issue.

The reason why I asked is because I found that FFB/Rumble devices (such as gamepads, etc) appear to do better with one then without.

I haven't, no, and don't own one, so can't try it out. I'd really be surprised if this were the culprit, though, as I've never had that problem with any other game.

[captainvik]

OMG :crying: Your post leaves me speechless... almost !

Your list of faults is over the top and very critical, yet there are a few posts like yours here and elsewhere on the net which frankly come across sounding like moaners (cry-babies ) but there is some constructive critics out there... not many sadly.

I love racing games both arcade and sim since 1980's ( old timer gamer here ) and there have been good & bad.

Shift 1 had some troubles and was challenging, but still enjoyed it even prior to the mods.

Shift 2 elite model to me feels a bit easy but then the market aimed at is wider, but I dont believe it is just same model without aids... and it is no full on sim but great fun.

Your post just bubbles my skin :thumbdown: not because I dont think you have the right to make valid complaints but because there are so many from the "me" generation that complain about every little "bloody" thing... uuggh :angry:

Anyway go program your own fantastic racing game and give me a holla' when you have it just right - I'll be glad to test it for you - meanwhile I'm back to Shift2u on my PC and loving it :-D

[suballiance]

worst ffb in the history of racing games, did anyone making this game ever plug in a wheel ?

[turbo86]

Well i say, shame on everyone who bought a second Shift title.

[F2kSel]

Well i say, shame on everyone who bought a second Shift title.

Couldn't agree more, if you keep buying broken games they won't bother to fix them.

[helloworld]

Couldn't agree more, if you keep buying broken games they won't bother to fix them.They wont fix them anyway. The less money they get the less they'll invest into the next project. If Shift 2 fails miserably you can expect to see tons of copied content directly from S2 (or maybe even S1) in S3 with minor tweaks here and there or some silly features like Autolog what adds nothing to the gameplay experience, but wastes valuable time and resources.
Getting the real drivers in real cars on real tracks with a helmet that has a cam on it can't be cheap in any freaking way and what does it add to the game? It's nice, sure, but it shouldn't be the main focus.

There are priorities and if someone comes up with a game and tells you right off the bat that it will be the most visceral experience you know their priorities aren't right. What good does a racing game with spectacular crashes do when you can't properly play it? Driving should be the priority and everything else is bonus, secondary. Having time and money to but that bonus content in the game would be great, but I'd give up all that for top-notch driving experience anytime.

[MaddmattH]

Yea the thing is, if we don't buy Shift 2, then what do we play instead? Screw buying a console, paying a subscription fee, or playing a dated GMotor based game!
When rFactor 2 comes out and Simbin has something better than the low budget crap they're throwing out then we'll finally have some competition, and some good realistic racing games to choose from.

[redi]

They wont fix them anyway. The less money they get the less they'll invest into the next project. If Shift 2 fails miserably you can expect to see tons of copied content directly from S2 (or maybe even S1) in S3 with minor tweaks here and there or some silly features like Autolog what adds nothing to the gameplay experience, but wastes valuable time and resources.
Getting the real drivers in real cars on real tracks with a helmet that has a cam on it can't be cheap in any freaking way and what does it add to the game? It's nice, sure, but it shouldn't be the main focus.

There are priorities and if someone comes up with a game and tells you right off the bat that it will be the most visceral experience you know their priorities aren't right. What good does a racing game with spectacular crashes do when you can't properly play it? Driving should be the priority and everything else is bonus, secondary. Having time and money to but that bonus content in the game would be great, but I'd give up all that for top-notch driving experience anytime.
Unfortunately, you/we make up 0.00001% of the addressed audience, so what we think to be important in a race game compared to the short-attention-span gaming crowd means pigeon poo to companies like EA.

[helloworld]

Unfortunately, you/we make up 0.00001% of the addressed audience, so what we think to be important in a race game compared to the short-attention-span gaming crowd means pigeon poo to companies like EA.True which means expecting any changes in future titles is most likely not going to happen. The only thing we can ask from them is a well-programmed game for easy modding. The modding community is amazing and they'll fix anything what SMS couldn't or didn't want to do.

[Siggs]

Well i say, shame on everyone who bought a second Shift title.

feeling very judgemental aren't we. Shame on your for that! :mrgreen:

[MaddmattH]

Unfortunately, you/we make up 0.00001% of the addressed audience...

I don't believe that. The game is marketed as a realistic racer, so that's what people expect when they buy it.
Most of the reviews criticised the handling for not being as precise at GT5.

GT5 by the way, is a typical 'dull' sim racer that sells millions of copies on a single platform. There's no shortage of people that want a realistic racing game.

They made Shift 2 more exciting (which is what most sim racers lack and it puts people off), but they would pull more of the sim racing crowd from Forza, GT5 (and in future, rFactor 2) with better handling and overall realism.

It wasn't just sim racers that criticised Shift for the handling problems it had. Friends of mine that weren't into sim racers even criticised the handling as being 'wrong', including one female friend who I never even suspected of being into a game like that :laugh:

I buy a game like this so I can drive cars that I can't drive in real life and so I can drive them in ways that I'm not mad enough to do for real. When the handling isn't right, it ruins the fun.

So when we have a choice between several modern great looking race sims one day, the one's that have handling problems get disqualified and lose sales :-)

[mfxfgr]

Everybody check this out
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1331574&postcount=5

[East]

I haven't, no, and don't own one, so can't try it out. I'd really be surprised if this were the culprit, though, as I've never had that problem with any other game.

I understand, but if you ever decide to get one try to find something like this (http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-High-Speed-7-Port-USB-Hub/dp/B0006TIA8Y).

In any case I hope Grid 2 offers something a bit more this go around (suppose to already be in development). Although Grid wasn't a sim it sure was fun to play and the driving characteristics were far better.

[SmokinBob]

I have to say that the disappointment with this title, out of the box, is quite high. Easily the worst FFB I have ever felt in a game purporting to have FFB, how this happened is beyond my comprehension.

As a buddy used to say to me, 'Still breathin' still hope', well, NFS Shift 2 is on life support, at best.

I am very grateful that already the fixes are being created and sought by those of you in the community who have the talents, and at the same time feel very let down by the so-called developers and publishers who once again drop the ball while the paying public picks it up.

I take full responsibility for my purchase as I ignored the comments of qualified folks, I would hope that those responsible for what got burned to this disk take some responsibility as well.

Graphically and visually I am impressed, it's the driving part that is the shame. Truly awful.

And for the record I enjoyed Shift 1 very much.

[TUNDRA_schumacher]

I think the AI is pretty good myself.
I'm now glad I bought the game since I got it straightened out

[helloworld]

@MaddmattH

Yes, they've said "hardcore" people will enjoy it. However, as far as I'm aware they never directly addressed sim racers nor did they say it's realistic in terms of racing experience (i.e. the actual driving). All they said was that it looks real and the physics system is the most advanced one out there. They never said it's accurate to real life counterparts or anything like this.
In fact, it's actually quite the opposite. They constantly kept repeating hardcore people will enjoy it, but casual games haven't been left out.
Rolling the car is ridiculous, but fun as hell. If you're almost 90 degrees you suddenly get some insane boost what sends the car flying. Spectacular? Maybe. Realistic? No. Don't get me wrong, I don't complain. It's enjoyable. :P

What do people consider as realistic racers? Gran Turismo? In my eyes it's a good game, but by no means a realistic racer. It's sort of like Shift, a lot of emphasis has been put to cars, tracks and visual.
A game where AI constantly bumps you, camera shakes all over the place is the opposite of dull?

They took bunch of real life racers and basically let them do the job. Saying how things should be, etc. This means that accuracy probably wasn't the priority, but the feel of it. For them, having the feeling that car is heavy was considerably more important than it actually being so.
If you've ever driven a car or have sim-racing experience you have certain expectations. There are facts how car is not how car should be and this is what defines a proper racer for me.
Having a game what relies more on the feel than actual facts is obviously contradictory with many people, because they don't share the same feeling. Fortunately "feel" is something you can get used to.

[MaddmattH]

To get the feel right, they need to get the physics right. Which they haven't quite managed. Steering lag, incorrect aero and suspension data... these things ruin the feel and even people who aren't into sim racing can tell something is wrong.
If they don't address this in a patch then this is going to diminish my respect for SMS. No way in hell can EA be blamed for the steering lag, and surly someone like the guys that worked on the overhaul mod can be hired to fix things up. One of them, working full time for a few months, can sort out a whole lot of these mistakes.

[DurgeDriven]

I think the AI is pretty good myself.
I'm now glad I bought the game since I got it straightened out

Yeah if you leave them alone they fine.

Just for a different Bathurst to drive I give it good score. :P lol

Cant say it is as immersive as #1 but I dont expect great things from arcade come sims. Buying it with that in mind I am happy with the Dirts, F1 2010 and Shifts. They are only a novelty to pass time from sims at best.

[redi]

Either way, making a race game with the most advanced physics engine to date and then supplying a completely alien driving/control experience with a wheel seems awfully strange. I'm still guessing that we're looking at a huge bug, over something overlooked by the people who programmed wheel support. The fact that some people report decent control and FFB leads me to believe that good wheel support is in there, but it's being ruined by a bug in the code.

Still, since Crossfire also seems not to be working, you could ask yourself what kind of testing they did on the PC version if such major showstoppers made it into the final product...

[MaddmattH]

Still, since Crossfire also seems not to be working, you could ask yourself what kind of testing they did on the PC version if such major showstoppers made it into the final product...

I think it' more to do with a deadline than not finding the bugs.

[redi]

I think it' more to do with a deadline than not finding the bugs.
Perhaps, but that would mean that they got their priorities wrong in defining what absolutely needed to work at release...

[DurgeDriven]

Still, since Crossfire also seems not to be working, .

SLi either as far as I can tell, still I am getting decent fps hardly great though.

[ocram]

Yes, they've said "hardcore" people will enjoy it. However, as far as I'm aware they never directly addressed sim racers nor did they say it's realistic in terms of racing experience (i.e. the actual driving). All they said was that it looks real and the physics system is the most advanced one out there. They never said it's accurate to real life counterparts or anything like this.


Really?

Have a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1id4XHilsw#t=3m50s
@3:50

"However with this game and with the physics engine that we now using, you don't get anymore sim than this. If you put this game on elite model handling model, you get a sim which is more sim than anything else out there"

[Kazumi]

that quote nowhere says that so-called hardcore sim racers will enjoy it nor does it's say anything about accuracy of specific cars.

[helloworld]

@ocram

Thanks, never seen that interview.

I love the "more accurate I'd say..." part. :laugh:

He said it, he's EP and I'd say he's getting payed to fool me, you and everyone else. I found SpeedHunters FAQs very enjoyable and also the 2h interview. There was a bit more reasonable text going on there. I can't recall anyone saying it's the ultimate sim racing and sim fans will love it and feel right at home (that doesn't mean it didn't happen).

However, they're not turning anyone down, obviously. The way they answered those questions about Elite mode or technical aspects, etc was very disturbing.
Either way, they have sort of mentioned the sim racers, but they've not done it "in your face" style. They've been very modest...

@JDougNY
Thank you sir. If that's the case then may I ask, wtf!? Currently Shift 1 is much better. So, one is wondering where did they go wrong?

[MaddmattH]

:(
Well at the very least, it's something to keep us entertained until a proper modern sim comes out.
They just need to fix it up and we need to get it moddable.
I could enjoy Shift, so having double the cars and tracks with a few improvements will do for now. But I don't see myself buying into this every year. SMS needs to improve this unless they want another series to take all their sales.

At least it isn't overpriced like many other major PC games, so I don't feel so ripped off buying it.

[edubz123]

Agree, I have my doubts about a Shift 3. Besides bug fixes what other features are left? I don't think any console players care about pits. Weather, working headlights/wipers? I certainly wouldn't buy shift3 for those things. It's not that kind of game.

Again besides bug fixes, how can they entice people to buy shift3?

[MaddmattH]

Again besides bug fixes, how can they entice people to buy shift3?

New tracks and cars.
Better handling where the physics are actually correct.
Lack of major bugs on release.
Better graphics (although consoles can't do much better).
Rain.
New racing types like rally, dirt tracks, open road tracks, bikes...

And hot girls showing cleavage on the cover.

But they better fix up this game first.

[mfxfgr]

......And hot girls showing cleavage on the cover.....

LMAO~ Although I always skip those scene~:-D

[Kazumi]

(...)
Rain.
New racing types like rally, dirt tracks, open road tracks, bikes...

And hot girls showing cleavage on the cover.

that would make up for some flaws.

imho they should more seperate normal mode from elite. yes normal isn't frustrating with spinning cars too easy, set-up isn't that necessary but you can still use upgrades and tuning, and so on. that's all good things if you ask me :thumbup:

but none of that should be shared on "elite" mode.

[helloworld]

Third time's a charm, eh?

[freejrs]

It's called Unleashed.........it has an Elite handing model......

Enough said. :lol:

[guritza]

Thank you very much for your word of advice Greg, i´m not buying that crap, i guess i´ll stick with good ol´ GTR2, rFactor and GTRevo, have too much fun with them to go with the flow and then stick like you... anyway i guessed the car handled prettty bad in some youtubes i watched but i thought i was beeing over the top and getting an excuse not to buy it...

thank you again Greg and all the best to you GTR2 forever m8

[Carabo]

haters gunna hate

This!

[Hired Goon]

Thanks to the OP for the heads up, because I felt exactly the way you did regarding Shift 1. Struggled with it for 2-3 weeks and then was lucky enough to sell it for $25.

I'll admit to holding out some hope that it would improve, but it seems console gameplay has once again won. I will not touch this title with the proverbial 10 foot pole.

[JonP01]

Wasnt ffb crap until the second patch in shift 1? I maybe be mistaken...

That is my clear recollection of the situation. I shelved the original NFS Shift after being extremely disappointed with the FFB. Then I decided to try it again after patching and the FFB was then excellent with absolutely no tweaking required (G25 here).

It is sad to think it may have gone backwards since the patched original Shift, since I had very little to criticise in relation to the FFB of that version.

[DurgeDriven]

Bit of a turn around, I enabled SLI 8x AA and SLI 4x supersample in nvidia
and getting around 100fps.

[Headsoup]

Geez, rFactor2 better feel exactly like rFactor or it's gonna get shot down hard!

[SmokinBob]

I think the AI is pretty good myself.
I'm now glad I bought the game since I got it straightened out

At this time, I would rather drive lawnmowers.

[guritza]

here´s an update on the prices and this is NOT april´s fools day
in Portugal:
NFS Shift 1 = 9.99€
NFS Shift 2 = 50.99£

50.99€ ???? someone must be joking right???
i´m not buying either one of them!!!