View Full Version : Liftoff oversteer and throttle steering?
aaltomar
3 April 11, 12:45
Liftoff oversteer seems to be missing altogether? Also it's quite hard to get RWD a car to oversteer under heavy throttle when cornering. Compared to iRacing you can be super ham-fisted in Shift. In iRacing you really have to pay extra attention being smooth and control the weight transfer.
In shift it's also quite hard to lock out the wheels under braking. Even downshifting too early is of little consequence.
While Shift is fun to drive I'm missing the simulation side in many aspects.
czechzombie
3 April 11, 13:42
In shift it's also quite hard to lock out the wheels under braking.
Not really.
MaddmattH
3 April 11, 13:49
Stock cars are tuned to be very easy to drive, at the expense of performance. Just look at the ride heights, more suitable for roads than tracks.
Apply some upgrades and go into the tuning, should change your mind :)
Liftoff oversteer seems to be missing altogether? Also it's quite hard to get RWD a car to oversteer under heavy throttle when cornering. Compared to iRacing you can be super ham-fisted in Shift. In iRacing you really have to pay extra attention being smooth and control the weight transfer.
In shift it's also quite hard to lock out the wheels under braking. Even downshifting too early is of little consequence.
While Shift is fun to drive I'm missing the simulation side in many aspects.
There is TC and ABS activated in .cdf files... Example: Viper STR10
[CONTROLS]
ThrottleControl=(2,2,1,1)
AntilockBrakes=(2,2,1,1)
..........
TractionControlGrip=(1.00, 0.20) // average driven wheel grip multiplied by 1st number, then added to 2nd
TractionControlLevel=(0.30, 0.90) // effect of grip on throttle for low TC and high TC
ABS4Wheel=1 // 0 = old-style single brake pulse, 1 = more effective 4-wheel ABS
ABSGrip=(1.00, 0.20) // grip multiplied by 1st number and added to 2nd
ABSLevel=(0.20, 0.40) // effect of grip on brakes for low ABS and high ABS
Same as S1 ... OHM 2 never change this... Ask JDougNY :)
Actually I'm having huge fun AND troubles with cars over- and understeering all the time :) I bought the Caterham today and took it out on different tracks, did some tuning and boy what a handful is that car. It switches from power understeer to oversteer constantly depending on the track surface, steering wheel position, amount of throttle and whatnot. I'm sure lift-off oversteer is there as well, but as stated above it depends very much on the car's set-up and all default set-ups are very stable under braking and lift-off.
...also, make sure you have all driving aids turned off
This... I had enabled "Elite" mode, but the game still had ABS and a few other things turned on in the menus. I had to go back through the menus to make sure all the assists were off. I've been able to see the tires lock and release in the replays (which is pretty cool I must say).
Is it our duty to give the cars a default setup that resembles their real counterpart?
Is it our duty to give the cars a default setup that resembles their real counterpart?
For racing cars - yes... Production cars - no.. IMHO
But it even starts with the steering lock, 20 is default for each car. This alone is ridiculous. It's their duty to give at least each production car the real turning radius.
aaltomar
3 April 11, 15:30
Not really.
Ok, Elite mode, all assists off what can be seen in the menu. I do have Clubsport pedals but even with the more precise loadcell brake pedal I can brake without much thinking about it.
For example the LFA, full on brakes, no lockup. The brakes only squealed a tad when the car was almost at standstill. GT-R specV, Stirling Moss Merc the same. Reventon a hint a of lockup when slowing down but nothing to worry about when braking in a straight line. Alfa Romeo 8C braking full when going downhill, no lockup etc...
I can see from the telemetry screen that the brakes are fully engaged, so it's not a calibration issue.
(what's it worth I'm using the minimod from Jules)
I mean my measly real life Skoda Octavia 1.6 liter can lockup its tires and spin the wheels even when having only about 115hp.
Liftoff oversteer seems to be missing altogether? Also it's quite hard to get RWD a car to oversteer under heavy throttle when cornering. Compared to iRacing you can be super ham-fisted in Shift. In iRacing you really have to pay extra attention being smooth and control the weight transfer.
In shift it's also quite hard to lock out the wheels under braking. Even downshifting too early is of little consequence.
While Shift is fun to drive I'm missing the simulation side in many aspects.Maybe you should watch my video mate :mrgreen: the cars are extremely easy to get sideways with a correct setup. Also try putting your throttle sensitivty upto 100%, this is what i was using here.
The game is ALOT of fun but you need to tweak car setups as deafult they are too soft and have way too much aero
UcbVzz-Rv-s
MaddmattH
3 April 11, 15:34
With some upgrades you can access the brake pressure setting.
Also, when testing note that the game simulates tyre and brake temperature.
I've been able to lock up easily in most cars I've tried, haven't had a go in any of the cars you listed yet though.
That mod you're using may be changing things. Personally I just use his DLL file to kill input lag and leave out the rest.
Yep i agree i don't use Jul's mod, it's not needed for me personally as it's all down to car setups. Plus i don't like the extra effects it adds
aaltomar
3 April 11, 15:51
Ok, I have to try again without the minimod. I also expected that the default setups would have enough stopping power. I mean the above examples were all loaner cars where you can't make any setup changes.
EDIT: Ok, whether it was the minimod's "fault", going back to standard and adjusting brake power even with semi slicks my humble D-class BMW was able to lock its tyres. Thanks for the tips guys.
On a similar note adjusting the throtte/brake sensitivity is not needed as 50% is linear and I'm plenty capable flooring either the throttle or brakes fast enough so not being able to lock out the tires was mostly because of poor brake pressure (and removing the minimod might have helped as well).
Thing you need to do my friend is stop comparing it to iRacing, it's nothing like iRacing, this is SHIFT. A bonkers all out thrills racer with sprinkles of sim, once you realise that then you will just fall in love with it.
I am an iRacer aswell but i enjoy it because i don't compare. iRacing while it offers me precise phyiscs, never has it put a cheshire cat grin on my face like SHIFT2 does.
Accept it for what it is a crazy racing game and you will love it. And don't be fooled, once you delve into setups this game is far from watered down, it's just not hardcore :-)
I said 100% on the throttle so it makes the car unstable under throttle
aaltomar
3 April 11, 16:35
Thing you need to do my friend is stop comparing it to iRacing, it's nothing like iRacing, this is SHIFT. A bonkers all out thrills racer with sprinkles of sim, once you realise that then you will just fall in love with it.
I said 100% on the throttle so it makes the car unstable under throttle
Aye, it was more like wondering why it's so damn easy :) I wanted a bit more of an challenge. Even with the powerful cars keeping the throttle floored on second or third gear rarely produces wheelspin.
But yea, SHIFT is not iRacing and in part that's a good thing. iRacing can be a bit frustrating at times. Waiting eagerly for the new tire model though. And yet iRacing lacks the cars I want to drive which SHIFT has plenty. :thumbup:
Even with the powerful cars keeping the throttle floored on second or third gear rarely produces wheelspin.
:?:
i do get wheelspin just not that it spins the whole car immediately.
Is it our duty to give the cars a default setup that resembles their real counterpart?
Dunno. But it's a lot of fun messing around with it. The more I play, the more I find it's not arcade in any bad sense of that word.
If you want to spin you can, if you want to plough off the track you can. It just seems to default to being balanced.
You can jump into the garage section, select a car, pick tune. Just use the quick tune menu and dial in whatever balance, understeer or oversteer you want, lots or no downforce and then jump on a track to test it.
Whether it's realistic or not I dunno, but it's certainly a very drivable handling model. The cars seem reasonable in the way they behave. It absolutely towers over Shift 1 in that respect.
Aside from the straight line instability a few of the cars, like the Lotus, have perhaps. But with 720 degree steering that's less of an issue than with 360 degrees.
In the tuning test tracks you start with cold tyres and brakes (on lower handling models your tyres are optimum temps from the look of it) and grip does appear to improve as the tyres warm.
With something like the Team NFS Mazda RX8 on Monza Jnr - you're braking half way down the straights to stop in time - so it isn't "arcade" braking - and after a few fast laps, the front brakes overheat and fade and the car won't stop let alone lock up :)
Brakes seem to lock less with downforce, perhaps that's the reason? Although it seems realistic to me that the brakes don't lock until the car is relatively slow.
As others are saying, it's a lot of fun to drive.
Had shift 1 had this handling I'd be more inclined to believe Ian Bell's suggestion that their handling behaviour is more realistic than the more spin happy older PC sims. But I dunno, clearly Shift 1's handling had a large dollop of "NFS" sauce added to it - perhaps whilst some of SMS's backs were turned. If this game has it too, it certainly feels like it's not hurting the flavour as much this time :)
i guess~ the 3 / 4 different modes created more problems then expected in Shift 1.
it's nothing ever tried except GTR Evolution with 3 cars that were thoroughly tested and adjusted with both "modes" :-)
GTR2 and other racing simulations doesn't change much that influence handling directly. rFactor modder sometimes include other physic set but again with each thing thoroughly tested and manually adjusted if necessary.
it's not hard to stumble into something that didn't work out in normal mode but works fine in pro mode in S1 by modding. the only per car modifiers were for drift mode but with the other global adjustments they are rarely used in the car files (one or two cars reduce a bit grip for drift mode because it's added globally in normal mode, for example)
Dunno. But it's a lot of fun messing around with it. The more I play, the more I find it's not arcade in any bad sense of that word.
If you want to spin you can, if you want to plough off the track you can. It just seems to default to being balanced.
You can jump into the garage section, select a car, pick tune. Just use the quick tune menu and dial in whatever balance, understeer or oversteer you want, lots or no downforce and then jump on a track to test it.
Whether it's realistic or not I dunno, but it's certainly a very drivable handling model. The cars seem reasonable in the way they behave. It absolutely towers over Shift 1 in that respect.
Aside from the straight line instability a few of the cars, like the Lotus, have perhaps. But with 720 degree steering that's less of an issue than with 360 degrees.
In the tuning test tracks you start with cold tyres and brakes (on lower handling models your tyres are optimum temps from the look of it) and grip does appear to improve as the tyres warm.
With something like the Team NFS Mazda RX8 on Monza Jnr - you're braking half way down the straights to stop in time - so it isn't "arcade" braking - and after a few fast laps, the front brakes overheat and fade and the car won't stop let alone lock up :)
Brakes seem to lock less with downforce, perhaps that's the reason? Although it seems realistic to me that the brakes don't lock until the car is relatively slow.
As others are saying, it's a lot of fun to drive.
Had shift 1 had this handling I'd be more inclined to believe Ian Bell's suggestion that their handling behaviour is more realistic than the more spin happy older PC sims. But I dunno, clearly Shift 1's handling had a large dollop of "NFS" sauce added to it - perhaps whilst some of SMS's backs were turned. If this game has it too, it certainly feels like it's not hurting the flavour as much this time :)It's the speed that makes it feel like your at the arcades and gives it that NFS look. But, take away that speed and it looks as realistic as any other sim out there. I love how the cars move around and i agree and i have just posted elsewhere about the driving model being awesome.
If you pay attention, underneath the hood, the driving model is very advanced. I don't know of any other game that lets you drive on the limit like it does but you get it wrong just by one bit, it's goodnight due to the damage model
I'm bored of hearing GTR2 this, iRacing that. It's SHIFT2 and it does it's own thing and i love it!, move on!
aaltomar
3 April 11, 20:00
Aside from the straight line instability a few of the cars, like the Lotus, have perhaps. But with 720 degree steering that's less of an issue than with 360 degrees.
Actually the Lotus is quite well behaved once you get your wheel settings "correct".
Fanatec RS, 540° in profiler and in-game steering lock at 67%ish produces quite stable drive (I'm also using Juls Shift2 modified dll, not sure how much it affects if at all). I too had problems at first with the Lotus, especially in the invitational race where you win the car. Without tuning the car it didn't sway that much compared to my first try with standard 100% steering lock and whatever I had at the time in profiler, probably 900° which made the car really hard to drive twisty bends and increasing the steering lock in car tuning didn't usually produce results that were as good.
I'm bored of hearing GTR2 this, iRacing that. It's SHIFT2 and it does it's own thing and i love it!, move on!
I think if most of us could get our set-up running like yours we would agree with you but I think most of us haven't found that sweet spot. Your videos look like a different game to mine, I almost had a nice set-up but then I jump into something else and the wheel is see sawing again :crying:
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