Idea: Kudos (i.e. PGR), but opposite style learning

[Headsoup]

Yeah there'll be official forums soon enough where we can do all this, but I figure we can throw a few things around here while we wait :)

So... what if there's a 'training' section of the game that uses an 'opposite kudos' style system to help you learn.

For instance:
The idea is to get as few points as possible at the end of your lap.
- you get points for being over the lateral grip limits longer than X time
- points for being over the longitudinal grip limits longer than X time
- points for locking the brakes, or not braking enough (should be able to measure the margin to braking threshold easily enough)
- points for being off track (this needs to work well)
- there's a target time which is not statically set but matches the fastest time (with lowest points) set by anyone and you get increasing points the further you are over it (maybe separate to the other points)
- at the finish you get a breakdown of where and when the points were allocated, so you can see where you are making mistakes
- own ghost car and if capability allows, fastest ghost car

I think it would be pretty useful to help beginners learn where they are going wrong and work on smooth driving technique.

I was also thinking of having points for missing apexes and such, but there are many series of corners where the apexes aren't always on the ideal line, so that probably wouldn't work.

Other than the standard RBR/GTR2/GT style tutorials, what else could work?

[mfxfgr]

Quite impressive concept~
How about add a opposite kudos simulation system in time trial so player can practice without count in any kudos and for other modes all kudos made will be count?

[redi]

A penalty system sounds like a nice concept. I would vote for leaving 'the ideal line' out, since as you said the ideal line is quite fuzzy (or the ideal line should be made quite broad, but that would make it a bit useless IMHO). Instead of the ideal line, perhaps only a few key points like brake point (within a certain margin), turn-in point (also with margin) and corner exit region should be monitored.

[edubz123]

I hate the "best line", it only retarded my learning of the tracks in Shift1 & 2 and I quickly gave up on it (and subsequently learned Spa, Road America & Silverstone much faster).

Ghost car would be a good substitute for training (but again, wouldn't it be pre-programmed on an invisible "best line"? So maybe it's not such a good idea).

But I really like this "penalty system" idea.

[Gassolini]

If there was to be a negative kudos system, it might be an idea to also have a complementary positive kudos system. Especially if the kudos is going to be used for anything practical, e.g. matching drivers.

The reason for that is if driver A has driven 100km and racked up, say kudos = -1000, and driver B has driven 10000km and also racked up kudos = -1000, then any comparison of the two drivers based on kudos is off by two orders of magnitude. With a positive kudos as well, this could balance out. It might be difficult to establish fair criteria for +/- kudos though.

DJ
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[johnbergqvist]

To be honest, I hate these kinda systems, where you get "points" for how "well" you drive. It's an arcade system that in my view is not warranted in a game thats supposed to simulate realistic racing. I would definitely not vote for this in game. It belongs in GT5, Forza and SHIFT, not in C.A.R.S. At least make this completely optional and there for reference only /rant over.

[Kazumi]

:thumbup:

To be honest, I hate these kinda systems, where you get "points" for how "well" you drive. It's an arcade system that in my view is not warranted in a game thats supposed to simulate realistic racing. I would definitely not vote for this in game. It belongs in GT5, Forza and SHIFT, not in C.A.R.S. At least make this completely optional and there for reference only /rant over.
even iRacing has a rating system.

besides if you ignore the points you get some kind of tutorial / driving school / mission -thingy.

so I see it more as a seperate game mode ( = 100% optional) ...?
(...)a 'training' section of the game that uses an 'opposite kudos' style system(...)



in later missions there could also be challenges added. maybe some autocross stuff. maybe a zone wipeout mode where you're stuck on full accelerator lap after lap. well,... I'm sure there would be better ideas then mine :)

[johnbergqvist]

maybe a zone wipeout mode where you're stuck on full accelerator lap after lap.
...how is that realistic? :?:

But yeah if its completely optional and a seperate mode altogether, then I don't mind.

[erictheez1]

I have to say that I am never more immersed in a game then when I'm using a cockpit view with no HUD. Seeing "+200 Points! Rad Drift!" a la Project Gotham or DiRT 2/3 will take me out of an experience faster than anything.

I think the mature thing to do is (if C.A.R.S. will have a split sim/arcade mode) to have it be some kind of after-run review screen. Kind of like a track visualization of telemetry (telemetry usually being a bunch of very close together lines) that shows that you could have gone faster through turn 3 if you'd take this line, braked earlier, and hadn't spun up the tires by being too aggressive on the throttle.

These stats are easy to track for a game and just as easy to script a "review screen" for since a perfect time/line can be simulated and easily compared in an easy to understand screen.

[johnbergqvist]

I have to say that I am never more immersed in a game then when I'm using a cockpit view with no HUD. Seeing "+200 Points! Rad Drift!" a la Project Gotham or DiRT 2/3 will take me out of an experience faster than anything.

I think the mature thing to do is (if C.A.R.S. will have a split sim/arcade mode) to have it be some kind of after-run review screen. Kind of like a track visualization of telemetry (telemetry usually being a bunch of very close together lines) that shows that you could have gone faster through turn 3 if you'd take this line, braked earlier, and hadn't spun up the tires by being too aggressive on the throttle.

These stats are easy to track for a game and just as easy to script a "review screen" for since a perfect time/line can be simulated and easily compared in an easy to understand screen.

:thumbup: This would be a much better way of doing it.

[Headsoup]

...how is that realistic? :?:

But yeah if its completely optional and a seperate mode altogether, then I don't mind.

Yeah that's how I meant it. Only as a training tool in the 'driving school' section (possibly in 'hotlap' mode too...). Not as part of the game itself, otherwise you would need positive points too.

And the ghost car would just be of your fastest lap (or of the fastest lap on the leaderboard).

[johnbergqvist]

Yeah that's how I meant it. Only as a training tool in the 'driving school' section (possibly in 'hotlap' mode too...). Not as part of the game itself, otherwise you would need positive points too.

And the ghost car would just be of your fastest lap (or of the fastest lap on the leaderboard).

No, it shouldn't be as a training mode either. Heck No. Keep it as a fun mini-game, nothing else.

[Kaerar]

Ghost cars for training are a pretty good way to learn. For instance seeing as we don't have a full race team or engineers with data interpretation degrees going through our info having a ghost car on track and seeing where you went right and wrong would be IMO very beneficial as a training tool. It would only be available in quick race Time Trial and Tuning testing though (going of Shift 2's options there obviously).

There doesn't need to be a dedicated training mode IMO though.

Oh and please no stupid license tests like GT5. They are the most ridiculously stupid things ever. Getting a real track license is far simpler.

[johnbergqvist]

Oh and please no stupid license tests like GT5. They are the most ridiculously stupid things ever. Getting a real track license is far simpler.

Well-said :thumbup:

[Kazumi]

...how is that realistic? :?:

that isn't realistic. bad example ;)