GTL -What do you think about it?

[Pero_Grozni]

Well time to start a thread about our impressions and feel of the demo.
Obviously more or less all of us here love the fact that it covers the classic cars like the A110, Alfa GTA, Escort Mk1, 911 RSR so that allready is a big turn on to us.

Now the quiestion is how do you feel does it drive and is it a well developed concept.

My first thoughts:

Physics:
Well-they are more or less the best I have ever driven. The time difference to RT certanly shows.
I love that the cars have enough of opposite lock avalible to allow huge sideways moment that can be saved.
The tires feel more or less right-especially when you overdo them into a corner they feel great-nice slight slides once you get over the traction peak of the grip/slip angle curve. Obviously the traction circle is well developed-probably they used something simmilar to the "Cudakov circle theory".
All of the car behaviour from seems to check out from the physics point of view.
For setup I would like some main car data(like MOI, COG...) with dampers actually having units. Also some susepnsion geometry explanation..., so that on can acctually calculate a thing or two ;)

Game:
On my comp it runs reasonably well-not perfect, but also not unplayable.
The idea behind it being a representation of today's classic racing is a bit off to me-it would be so much better acctually racing in the older races with old field of cars.
The car selection seems quite well, but many things are missing-especially for the GT championships.
I also am not a fan of the career mode-keeps you from driving everything if you dont have much time.
I am a firm beliver of the "Drive the meanest monster straight away" theory so this is not exactly my prefered way. It really is best to go with the hardest driving monster staright from the start as everything you touch afterwards is childs play-and you are a better driver than.
I hope that we get some proper tracks as well (read Nurby). I find it boring driving on the tracks of today.

Graphics/models:
They look preety much perfect. The attention to the detail is certanly there, but I must say that I have seen better in the normal modding cars(RTS013, S4...). The same goes for the tracks.


All in all something to look forward to and curently the best sim.

Now-what do you think?

Cheers PG :P

[MudSnow]

I agree with everything you say, but I will be much more happy when I can add new cars. :D

[John_Schoen]

I love it to bits. The feel of the cars, the sounds and the looks. I even bought a new video card to be able to play it with all detail settings on maximum.
I don't really like the career mode where you have to earn money to buy cars. The only advantage of that system is that you won't see idiots online wrecking in cars that are too fast for them immediately after opening the box. They will probably be driving Minis or something like that. :P

[Pero_Grozni]

Forgot about the sounds-they are really great. The vette sound fantastic :up: :wave:
I am sure that there will be plenty of brilliant online races in the winter :D

[TUNDRA_schumacher]

Best thing I've played on pc for years. Who needs Papy :P

[Rallyfan]

I am sure that there will be plenty of brilliant online races in the winter :D

Oh yes, i will gladly be beaten by one or more laps :D :smash:

But seriously, it is a great game, as far as they won't mess up the physics(Xpand rally :rolleyes: ).
Sounds are fantastic, and when we get a good multiplayer support and a possibility to modify the game, then what else do we need ;)

[Roger]

I'll load it up and let you know. Doing a quick forum browse there seems to be nothing but fulsome praise for the physics.

Does anyone one know if modding is allowed/possible? I have heard that tools will not be available and mods will be (shall we say) "discouraged" :cry: .

Can a game survive if modding is not possible?

[Lord_Verminaard]

I guess I'm still undecided about it. Visually, it looks great, the car modeling is quite good, track details are nice, but I'm still having FPS problems, as I think it should run better on my machine but maybe the graphics are still not optimized and may get changed in final version.

Sounds are great, I love the sound of a chevy V-8. :) The tire squealing sounds sound a bit "fake" to me though, not sure what it is but to me it sounds like the level of squeal sometimes isnt right for what the car is actually doing.

Physics wise- the big one. :) To me, they feel a bit off, as if the cars have too much grip. Of course, I play LFS a lot, and the big problem with LFS is not enough grip, especially in RWD cars, so that may flaw my overall impression, but it almost seems like the cars are too easy to drive. It only took me about 4 or 5 laps before I was turning some nice lap times with the Vette, and most of those laps were spent memorising the track and not trying to figure out how the car was going to handle. I guess I'll spend a little more time playing with it, part of the problem might be the track that comes with the demo (major bore!!) but I'm not as excited playing the game as I was looking at the screenshots before the demo came out. :(

The game that's still at the top of the ladder when it comes to road racing for me is NetKar. Looking beyond the early flaws and parts missing from the 0.9.9 version, it's a great sim with lots of potential.

I'll give GTL a try when the full version is out (unless it gets a lot of sore reviews) and hopefully I'll be ready to upgrade my computer at that time as well. :P

Brendan

[Midi]

I love it :whoa:

I drove some laps with vette and already i'm in love :P Though the track in demo is crap. Just waiting for the 1000TCR and Giulia at the full version :woohoo:

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/files/Midi_1125496369_GTL-vette-sliding.jpg

[Roger]

Very good, I need some time to adjust ;) . I love the Jag' BTW, very subtle handling. I suppose I can say that the tuning menu works. I wish it had more of an old time feel instead of (what it is I suppose :rolleyes: ) a modern take on historic racing.

Probably I'll rave about it after a few more goes. :wave:

[Midi]

Yeah the menus are awful. But sounds are great too, now i drove some laps with Lotus :drive:

[Ralph_B]

Well, I'm a bit twisted, 'cause it runs very poor on my PC - horrible framerate and cars have no textures (they are black all over). But that may be an issue of my old Geforce2GTS (the rest of my system should be good enough for good FPS) .... but will be solved within the next few days - have ordered something much better now and only have to wait until delivery. But that way I can't say anything about grafics for the moment, because I have turned down nearly all eyecandy to get the game running somehow.
Of course the poor performance also reduces the fun to drive - the precisision of the steering suffers under this slideshow, but even under this bad circumstances I can say, physics is the best I ever saw in a racesim. I'd whish, we could create such a good tiremodel for RT! :P I really can feel the tires work in turns and tirepressure has a big effect on the carhandling. Also the supension works like a dream. I think, the guys of SimBin have done a great job here. The engine-performance looks ok for me and in combination with the superb sound it creates a very realistic feeling. Summing up the physics, I don't find anything to complain and my high expectations are fullfilled completely.

The Dijon-track is a bit boring and I really miss a challenge in driving. I'm a bit afraid, the other tracks will not be much better. SimBin says, the game represents the historical Fia raceseries, which is running presently. That doesn't mean anything else, that you will have classical cars, but the races are taking place on modern tracks of the year 2000 and up. That's the sad side of Gt-Legends. I'd whish, I could drive those beauties also on historical racetracks in the layout they had in those glorious days of touringcar-races. :cry:
The layout of the menues is a bit spartanic, but for myself can live with it. The most important features are present and mostly selfexplaining. That's for my opinion, what a good game has to have. I don't care much about the look of the menues - it's from much bigger importance, that it's functional and overseeable on first view. Some functions don't work in the demo, but hey - have you expected the full package for free?
One thing I really dislike is the careere-mode. I fully agree with Pero - I don't want to waste my time with cars I don't want to drive for half an eternity to get access to some others, I dreamt about since ages. I'll spend my good money for a product and I want to use all features without any limitations - right from beginning. I'll buy it, because I want to drive some special cars and that's, for what I spend my bucks! As it is a SIM and not a funracer, my priority is driving cars I can't drive in reality and not gaming a roleplay! :mad: The argumentation of holding up interest is nonsense in my eyes. Maybe this is valid for arcadefans - but every serios simracer will keep fun for ages if the physics and cars are done well, even without a "gameplay". Have a look at GPL - has anybody ever missed a storyline? Not for shure! My hope is, that there will be a cheat to unlock the complete cars and track for those, who only care for the driving-experience itself and not for an adventure-game with old cars! Nothing against an addition challenge for those, who don't have enough fun with the drivingexperience itself, but in a SIM it should be the players own choice!
And I hope, it will be editable. I could accept some limitations like in GPL, but no modability at all would be a shame. I don't think, it is a very good idea, that physics for example can be changed as easy as in RT. It was one of the advantages of GPL, that not everyone having no glue about it, can mess up physics - and I think, that should be the same in GTL. But the ability to create additional tracks, cars or new textures should be given. That is, what keeps a good game alive for a long time, even it is released two or three years ago. To be eager, I doubt that I would still play RT or GPL, if no addons and enhancements would have been ever released. Can anyone imagine, to play an original GPL out of box for more than five years with grafics from medival, always the same few tracks and cars, that look like soapboxes compared with the present state of arts in computergames? No, you don't! That's something, the Simbin-guys should consider well!

Cheers,
Ralph.B :wave:

[MudSnow]

What is rFactor? rFactor is the latest racing simulation series from Image Space Incorporated. After successfully creating over a dozen products in the past ten years, Image Space takes the next logical step, creating a completely new technology base and development process.

This new isiMotor 2.0 environment will be the foundation on which to build exciting products for many years to come. The first installment in the rFactor series will be SR Grand Prix. Featuring mixed class road racing with ultra realistic dynamics, an immersive sound environment and stunning graphics, this is the game you will want to play.

rFactor will provide unprecedented flexibility, allowing the series to grow and evolve with mod community involvement, race club formation, and feedback from users worldwide!
__________________________________________________ _

BTW, I bought rFactor today, now if only the postman will hurry with my new CPU! :smash: I guarantee you that all your favorite cars will be converted, and we are told that track development will also be supported. :)
Currently, we are still waiting for the promised SDK. It is expected within a month, I hope.

[Roger]

As usual Ralph hits the nail on the head. My slightly cool reaction was due to the graphics not working properly (when the game loads my screen shifts to the side so I don't see the whole view ahead :eek: ).

I thought the menus were a bit shoddy, but the tuning menu was a nice surprise (I get as much fun adjusting cars as getting times out of them).

I thought the physics were pretty good up until I started adjusting the tuning menu - then I realised that these cars are responding to subtle changes - so the phyiscs gets a :up: :trophy: from me.

One thing bugged me a little was collision damage (I didn't check if there is an option to turn it on) - there doesn't seem to be any. Also, if you get hit by another car (yes, I was that slow!) you get turned upside down.

Sounds were great, did anyone notice nice pops & bangs on the overrun?

Replay was dissapointing, has anything come up to GPL standard yet?

[Ralph_B]

Collision-damage exists. It depends from the used skill-level. If you start in Profession-mode is is on. Haven't tested Rookie-settings :blah: , but I assume here you don't have any. But you always have the ability to change settings to a more realistic level also while driving. Use the F1 to F8 keys to enable or disable some driving aids (damage is F6 or F7 as I remember). But be aware, you can only increase and decrease difficulty in low skill-levels - if you start as a professional you can't use driving aids exept turning on or off manual gearbox and autoclutch. It something like a one-way-ticket. You can make it more realistic, if starting at low skillevel, but not make it easier on high level.

In the settingsmenue at start you also can enable or disable "Vertex-Damage". I think, this is related to grafical look and if damage shows up visually or not. But that you have to test yourself - due to the grafical errors because of my outdated GFX-card mentioned above I can't test it out myself.
But definitifely damage is modelled in the game. I intentionally did some crashes with some astonishing effects (in professional mode). After a hard hit into the armco my wheel went left and I had difficulties to drive straightways. It felt like a broken frontsuspension and flat tire. Another time crashed straightways into the tires at the pit-entry. My engine stopped working immediately and blew up in flames and black smoke. No way to start it again. Annother time only went over some cones - this time unintended - after that I really felt some change in car behavior and I think, one of my frontires again had a flat. And just annother. After two crashes into the armco with medium speed I was able to drive on. The car felt horrible, the steeringwheel wasn't centered when driving straightways and tires didn't have any grip (flat - i assume) but I was able to move my car on the track. What was amazing - after a half lap suddenly my engine went up in flames and soon stopped running. Must something like a fuel-leak caused by the hard hit. After about 10 seconds flame went out again, the automatic fire-extinquisher must have set in or some Marshals must have done their job. Wasn't able to restart the engine again afterwards.
So you see, damage is modelled quite nice - but not quite realistic at all for my opinion. It sets in very late and you really have to hit something pretty hard to show any effect. But maybe, there's a .ini-setting, that will have influence on it (and there are really a lot of settings, that don't show up in the game-menues). Haven't dug into this unil now.

Greetings,
Ralph

[Roger]

Thanks Ralph, sounds good to me. I must own up and say I only took a very quick test drive last night - didn't really pay attention to the menus as I went through

[Roger]

Damn this is good!!! Races are great fun, I am now getting the hang of the cars - top stuff :party:

[Imagine]

well,it could be better but it's not bad for a game :o

;)

by the feedback it looks that we are all going to play it so future is interesting becouse we will finally be on the same piece of road after RT :up:

[Roger]

I see some good on-line races happening, it would be nice to get a chance to nerf P_G off the track (by accident of course :P ) and give someone else a chance to win :smash:

[abaris]

Well, the physics are very believable and challenging. I can't judge the realism by those three cars I'm allowed to drive, cause being no millionaire I've never driven a Lotus, a Jag or a Corvette IRL. Would have to wait for the Mini, the Cortina or the Capri for comparisons.

All in all I fell in love with the game and placed my order at amazon after the first few trials.

Just a few things keep bothering me and I hope, there will be some fiddling until the final. The damage model is pretty laughable. I got hit at around 150 kph and both cars don't suffer so much as a scratch. Well, the taillights suffered a little, but that's about all.

And going for a race, the game choses to stop me after crossing the finish instead of letting me do a proper rollout. This usually results in a major crash, since my car is thrown into wild slides taking up most of the road.

[Ralph_B]

And going for a race, the game choses to stop me after crossing the finish instead of letting me do a proper rollout. This usually results in a major crash, since my car is thrown into wild slides taking up most of the road.

This is perhaps only in the demo. Had some more looks into the player.ini and noticed a lot of differnt settings for warmup-laps, second training-sessions and qualifies, manual entering of the pits and tons of other stuff, that doesn't have any effects for the demo when changing. But I think, we will see a lot of these options in the full release (I hope so, otherwise where's the sense in all those settings? :confused: ).

Cheers,
Ralph

[MudSnow]

Well, I have got my new CPU and reinstalled OS. GTL is great! rFactor is also very good! and I can use max and RBR again! Happy day! Hate to say this, but RT is dead now, for me anyway.

[Midi]

RT isn't dead until we get proper RWD cars in some rally game! It's still the best rally game IMHO :wave:

[MudSnow]

Well, I have a new opinion. I have been driving my ZR and rTrainer on line for several hours today, and also many other days, and then I switch back to GTL and compare. And it is not a good new opinion.

I love the cars in GTL, beautiful, with great textures, but the demo track is junk compared to rF. EVERYTHING about the track looks more real in rF, the little cracks along the edges, the dirt is dirty, the grass looks like grass, with brown patches. The fences look better. There is a glare on the tarmac when you are driving into the sun. There are also more sound effects and feedback in rF. The brake pads squeal and whistle, the body jerks and twitches if even one tire locks up, and makes big clouds of tire smoke. And the tire physics feels much more connected to the ground. When you go into a drift and then hook up again, you can really feel when you are connected again, and also in RBR. The car suddenly shakes a bit, and there is a definite change in sound effects. In RT and GTL you can only guess when is the second that you hook up again, (Well, I seem to be going in the right direction, I guess the slide is finished).

After playing rF all day, GTL seems more like RT than RBR. And rF tire physics seem much like RBR, at least so far (on tarmac) The friction parameters are actually much more detailed than RBR. And GTL tracks look like freshly poured concrete lined with astroturf. rF also has better looking trees and horizon.

rF has great throttle response, both on and off. If you go into a corner hard, just downshift and lift off, and the body suddenly jumps and pulls into line properly when the clutch engages realistically. Then GTL feels like a hovercraft, with much less throttle response. The shifting is also more realistic in rF. All the motion in GTL feels heavily damped compared to the instant feedback you get in rF.

So now the ONLY thing I like about GTL is the models and textures of the cars, and the "look to apex" feature.

BTW, I have perfectly good framerate on both games, with graphics at full, on my GF4 4600.

[Roger]

I'm still going to get GTL and I still really like the way the mass of the car moves/reacts, also the tuning has a believable effect on the handling. I think the track detail is Ok, but not great - I like the lighting. Like the car sounds.

I'm not as fussy as MS, neither to I have rF - seems like I should :wave:

[vrmx]

BTW, I have perfectly good framerate on both games, with graphics at full, on my GF4 4600.
Sure you were using full DX9 effects? :P

[MudSnow]

For set up choices, there is only DX7, DX8, and Auto. It is on Auto, and 60Hz. My monitor is also 60Hz. Yes, I do have DX9c installed. I have perfectly smooth frame rate, and there are sparks, dust, and smoke all over the place. Also cubic reflections, mirrors, and antialias are on. Maybe it is not 5 billion fps like your card :P, but there is no noticeable stutter, even in multiplayer. :)

I also have my BIOS AGP aperture at maximum.

From Fraps (1024x768, full effects, Auto DX, during races with other cars):

- rFactor
- Avg: 38.360 - Min: 33 - Max: 45

- GTLDemo
- Avg: 48.511 - Min: 37 - Max: 62

- GTLDemo - no AntiAlias
- Avg: 53.685 - Min: 31 - Max: 67

Geforce4 ti4600, wXP, Athlon 3000+, 1GB PC2700

rFactor has more audio and graphic effects. Not bad for a 3 year old card. :) Also, fps picked up a bit when I got the 3000 cpu, I was using a 2400 before I got these games.

[MudSnow]

Just so you know it's not only me:

Except for maybe RBR, the fishtailing, off throttle steering, wheel locking, and drifting are some of the most incredibly realistic I have ever tried. The tire physics blow away GTR and GTL. You can really feel when even a single wheel locks, and the squirming on recovery is amazing. I used to think GTR was impressive, but rF puts GTR back in its jewel case.

I especially like the open wheel cars, and the ZR. The Hammer is a PITA to drive, but that is just because it is nose heavy, and not unrealistic at all.

The graphics are also much better. After I play rF for a few hours, then switch to GTR or GTL, I think I am looking at a cartoon. rF has better grass, better tarmac, better dirt, sky, fences. GTL has better people and cars, but that is all, and will be taken care of shortly.

As a daily GTR racer since it's release, I realized after MudSnow's post that I haven't been to GTR for almost a month.

A few laps, and it was back to rFactor for me. I just didn't get any real enjoyment out of it as I used to. Not a slam at GTR at all, but in my opinion it WAS great.

I've been a long time LFS racer, but I have to say Rfactor completely destroys LFS in pretty much every department (exceptions being damage modelling and menu system), the cars are so much fun to drive and while being very forgiving take a lot of skill to drive fast. I've mostly been driving the Rhez but it's the best handling car I've driven in any driving game, which is thanks to the engine. The singleplayer game could do with some work but it's a lot better than what's on offer in LFS.

This and RBR are now the pinnacles imo, and I'm having more fun in rFactor atm.

I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents. I have pretty much every sim made. I played GTR when it came out til rF showed up. There is nothing on my HD that lets me feel the road as well as rF does. GTR was really good but I think rF topped it. I can feel everything the car is doing. Graphics wise, things could be better. Will they ever look like GTL as people start building real world cars and tracks? Who know, only time will tell. Until then, I still play both games and many others for different reasons. GTR for all the real world tracks and cars, F1C until we get bigger tracks to race the ISI F1's on, RBR for some rally action, and GPL for some oldschool fun. Oh, and NR2003 for when Im in the mood for ovals.The only game that I have not been able to get back into since rF launched is poor old LFS. I never thought I'd stay away from it this long but I cant help it. Both have fantasy cars and tracks. rF lets me feel the road better so I'm sticking with that. rF allows me to race and drive a car naturally and feels very convincing. rF spoiled me in this regard so I hope future sims pay very close attention to how their sim provides road and car feedback because I think it's a critical piece in portraying realism.

Oh, and one more thing. The people who just cant see what makes rF special havent spent enough time with it. Lots of hype before launch and a lot of people were expecting to fire it up and have it look lightyears better than MP demo. They got stuck on the fact that graphically, rF isnt the best they've ever seen and decided to quit and bash instead of exploring. I think you will loose out if you dont give this sim a chance becuase it's really good. And I'm a critical bastard believe me and I dont like or play just any game.

[Cpt_Henke]

Just got it and I think its awesome! The Alpine is so fun to drive! Its simply great! :)

[abaris]

A little OT, but how do you measure your framerates?

Is there some kind of key or do you use outside programs?

[Cpt_Henke]

Use ctrl+f :)

[abaris]

Thanks for the tip.

I only got it today and had little time for testing. Amazon takes its own sweet time nowadays even if you preorder.

My general impression is very good. I took some laps in the cortina and the mini and the physics seem accurate. Just one thing is bothering me. I don't like to use any driving aids, cause they take all the fun out of it. But I sure would like to reduce the AI strength just a little bit - just for starters. There doesn't seem to be any possibility do that independantly.

[MudSnow]

I don't find a switch for the AI, but you can turn the aids off independantly. Just use the F# keys at the top.

[abaris]

Yeah, I found it. Could turn off all the driving aids that way. The manual isn't very precise about it.

But there's just another thing. I made the second place in a cup and bought the Abarth out of my credits. My credits are gone, but it still says I only own two cars. Curious. Did I miss osmething there?

[BlaBla]

:( I have same problem as with the demo. Want to start the game, he is checking the disk and then.... nothing. After checking the disk he is doing nothing :mad: .
Played it by a friend, we just began a career.

But I am frightened, because of the problem, that I won with the Cortina every race in the first career-section in the British-Racing-Green-championship without any troubles. I hope the cpu-drivers aren't too slow, so that I would win every race in the expert-mode with some more experience.

But the game is very good. I hope, it is a bit editable, so that you can also include a BMW 1800TISA and a Giulia for the TC-65 and a BMW 2002 for the TC-76, because these cars are really missing.

[yassine]

I'd like to find a démo of this game!Where is it!

[abaris]

I'd like to find a démo of this game!Where is it!

On the official site: http://www.gt-legends.com/demo_de.php and on most CDs or DVDs the game magazines feature.

[SAABMan]

I've tried the demo and I'll probably get the game when the prices fall. Right now being here in Canada the ebay prices are extortionate, it being so new.

One thing though in the demo I seem unable to lock up the wheels even when I stamp my foot down on the brake. I can make the back fly out no problem in corners, for all the cars, but going down a straight and stamping on the brakes should induce at the very least front wheel lock-up, but it doesn't seem to do anything in the demo at least.

For those who already have the game, I specifically want to know how good is the:

Cortina
Mini
Escort
Capri
Arbarth

Thats really all I want it for. :roflmao:

[Imagine]

One thing though in the demo I seem unable to lock up the wheels even when I stamp my foot down on the brake. I can make the back fly out no problem in corners, for all the cars, but going down a straight and stamping on the brakes should induce at the very least front wheel lock-up, but it doesn't seem to do anything in the demo at least.

See my 6 post in this topic page for some conclusions:

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3142&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50

:wave:

[Roger]

This game is an absolute stunner.............RT on tarmac :up:

So far every car feels spot on (not driven the Alp' yet ;) - I'm trying to follow the career path properly :smash: )

The tracks are stunning - I know Donnington very well and I can say that this feels bump perfect - it is the ONLY Donnington I have ever tried in a game that really drives like the real one - the lines you need to take are the same ones you would use (others are recognisable, but seem to lose something) - take the bump under the Dunlop bridge, this will lift a motorbike front wheel at 140mph (feels great :D ) - in the game you can feel WHY :cool:

I am (to my surprise) loving the career mode.

I have noticed that some cars seem to have different setup options (I am guessing this reflects real life options) - very thorough attention to detail.

MEGA

[Ralph_B]

Nice you found some time to drive GTL - and that you like it! After two week playing GTL I can only agree: it is stunning! Sorry RT, sorry GPL - but as it seems, I've found a new favourite. Classical touringcars in a sim have allways been something like a dream for me. This way some good memories of nearly forgotten times come up again, when I was racing myself in reality.
Of course I had high expectations when it was anounced - specially to the physics. Must say, my expectations have been fullfilled completely. The feeling is the most realistic and comes as near as possible to the real thing (within the limitations of feeling that a only visible and accustic vision can give you). I also enjoy the incredible enginesounds (oh, I know - my nighbour will damn me for running an open V8 at full throttle in my livingroom :D ). I also think, the choice of cars is big enough. I only miss the BMW ..02 - those have been present in nearly all touringcar-races in the 70th and have been very successful. So I can't really understand, why no one is included. They also run in todays historical FIA-races as well - so no reason for letting them out. I also would like to see a NSU TT, but those aren't running in the present Fia-series. So I can understand, why they are not included. But perhaps we will get one in a future addon, who knows.
Good for a little surprise was the obligatory careere-mode. I always disliked this idea as the one and only way to get all cars and tracks unlocked. Well, meanwhile some ways of cheating have been made public - but I don't use them and decided to do it the hard way. Why? Simply answer: also the smaller cars provide a lot of fun and in the opposite to much other similar games they are challenging not less than the big cars. I fighted my way in "amateur" to the last race-series in Cup C so far and I can only comment, that I never had so much fun in unlocking anything like here. Of course I've disabled all available driving aids manually.
Well, where's much light, there always are shadows as well. So I am partly a bit dissapointed from the tracks. Of course they are pretty accurate (better than anything else I've seen so far), but I'd like to drive those classical cars on similar classical tracks. But all in all even the modern layout isn't half as boring as I'd feared before - and SimBin never has promised a sim of the 60th and 70th, but historical races of nowadays on tracks of the present, So no reason to complain, I knew what was waiting for me.
More annoying are some unrealistic features and known bugs. So I don't like the autopit-function, that cannot be disabled. Even a manual chance in the player.plr doesn't alter anything - the damned thing always reverts itself when starting the game. I want to drive into the pit myself and not be leaded by the computer! I would accept it as an option, but as the only way in a sim with high expectations to realism this is pretty beside! I also miss some changes in weather. I only see the same blue sky with some clouds all the time. There are options in the player.plr - but a manual change also was without success - still the same sky as always. It seemes, it initially was planned, but for some reasons didn't find it's way into game.
Annother little weakpoint is the ai for my opinion. Not in general - the drivingbehavior is the very best I've ever seen and also no complains about the cleverness of the computercontrolled drivers. What I mean is the big difference of performance in qualifying and race, specially in the lower skill-levels. They do really fast laptimes in practice, but are very much slower in race. I started the first cup on "advanced" and hardly could take the pace in practice. But then in race I was ways faster than the rest and mostly ended up a half lap in front of my oponents after five short laps. Some times I really had to brake like mad behind a opponent, because he slows down in front of a turn like a learner at the drivingschool. Now in amateur the guy give me halfways a challenge in race, but no way to reach the pole in qualify on most tracks. I always have to fight through the half field of cars. It is a challenge and I personally can live with it - but on the other hand it is a bit unrealistic and a better balanced speed in practice and race would be much closer to reality.
Last not least GTL requires a fast computer and GFX-card to run well. After a lot of finetuning my new machine can handle it with accepable FPS on halfways good grafic-settings. But it doesn't make me wonder, that so much guys complain about bad FPS to nearly unplayability - specially on later stages with a full grid. But I really can't complain - believe it or not, it is runníng acceptable under Windows ME on my machine, even the discription says, that minimum requirements are WinXP! :P
All in all the game is a musthave for each serios racesimmer with a faible for old cars. Some little bugs here and there, but nothing serios at all for me. And I am shure, most of this things will be cured in a later patch.

Greetings,
Ralph.B

[Roger]

I noticed the AI qualy & race speed dispcrepancy too. In qualy they seem to run at just about lap record pace and in the race they are much slower. At least in makes for a good race in Amateur & Semi Pro mode (Pro is still too hard for me) working through the field.

At RSC there are some tips to improve FPS - one is to turn the replay settings right down or off (I think it helped for me, but I have masses of RAM (2GB) anyway).

One one level the modern tracks are dissapointing - on the other hand I am really enjoying myself finding my way around them, probably a credit to the great physics too.

Truly a brilliant game.........

[Roger]

For those who already have the game, I specifically want to know how good is the:

Cortina
Mini
Escort
Capri
Arbarth

Thats really all I want it for. :roflmao:

Cortina - I loved driving this car, a great little racer - really usable and decently quick.

Mini - I hated it - me & FWD just don't work well together, but it felt convincing

Escort - no idea yet

Capri - same

Abarth - WOWWWWWWW!!!! Great package, mental engine lots of fun and a real race car

[jeanpierre]

hello news to no grip but a long time i have rallye trophy :smash:

i have try the demo version of gtl but i 'am a little decived that the needle of the dash board don't move like in rally trophy
i am a little decived that i can't have a big speedometer too :mad:

[Roger]

Hello Jeanpierre - first post, welcome :wave:

I think there is an option to show the instruments like in RT.

Even if not, the full game is brilliant - and you get to drive one of France's finest creations :cool:

[Midi]

i have try the demo version of gtl but i 'am a little decived that the needle of the dash board don't move like in rally trophy


You mean g-force effects? I think that it's just a demo were isn't this option. I personally like incar viewe with just ordinary still camera.

[John_Schoen]

For those who already have the game, I specifically want to know how good is the:

Cortina
Mini
Escort
Capri
Arbarth

Thats really all I want it for. :roflmao:
Roger has already covered the other cars, so I'll add my opinion about the Escort. It drives great, very quick and chuckable. The engine has lots of power, it can be a giant killer on short tracks.

P.S.
The car in your avatar looks like Ian Fisher's rally Imp. I had a great day with Mickey, his Irish mechanic, doing the service on that car during a Dutch rally.

[Roger]

I've just won the Mustang and sold bought an Alpine :D

Alpine is a baby - I love this little car. It feels very very good as a comparison to real life.

The Mustang - well won the race, but the front outside tyre must have been toast and the rear was painting stripes everywhere.

Each car so far has a brilliant character...........very involving

[Pero_Grozni]

STOP IT :mad: :banghead: :shocking:
Arghhhhhh :argue:
DOH :wc:



:P
You guys are making me go insane with all this talk as I still dont have it. So very frustrating-I will go insane soon.
I want to drive the Alp, Escort and RSR so badly :drive:

Even so-I still see a major problem with GTL-It is not classic rallying :twisted:

[Roger]

You know, the great thing about GTL is that I am no longer feeling the need to try and get RT cars working on tarmac. Leave them where the belong, on the loose stuff.

Add a dose of GTL to RT and you have two perfect worlds :D

Let's start with the tracks - stunning detail and very subtle changes in track profile like I have never come across before. There really are some lines where using the camber or hooking a kerb are faster than the geometrically perfect line. Lighting is brilliant.

It's the cars that really involve you though. They need a different approach to setup and driving to get the best out of each - when you are presented with a new challenge in the cup races, first job is to have a really good think about how to get the best out of the car, maximise it's strengths and minimise it's weaknesses before you can win races.

Some of the controller options are really handy - like the clutch sensitivity, get this right and the car will launch really well off the starts.

I can't tell you how much fun the Alpine is and it really is very close to real life. Handling is spot on (not the same as mine, but lets face it - springs, ride height, weight camber etc. will all be different), I really believe the car is an A110. In fact this is the car I have adjusted LEAST in the setup menus :cool: .

There is no question, these are 1300's - ignore the fact that some material calls it a 1600S (I have looked underneath to see which side the manifold is on) - also the willing engine and fluid handling mark these as 1300's.

The engine races through the gears exactly like mine, even the way it struggles a little through 4th, but seems to get more out of 5th. Very sensitive to the steering, tiny inputs and pour it into the fast stuff (in mine you hardly move the wheel in fast corners, just a tiny bit of pressure through your fingers). In the slow stuff let the weight swing the back and hook up the power for the exits (this MUST be the hairpin king!).

Anyway - hope you are REALLY feeling the pressure now P_G :wave: :twisted:

You won't believe how good the engine is in the Fiat, sooo smooth and willing.

First time you fire up the Mustang - BIG SILLY GRIN :twisted: , which won't go away when you drive it, complete hooligan's car (a bit of a boat, but really who cares).

I am prepared to wait and earn the exotics, I'm enjoying career mode that much.

Cars I want to sample? After the Mustang experience I want more muscle, the 427 Cobra must be brilliant with THAT engine. Porsche 906 and the Ferrari. Curious about the GT40 & Pantera.

[Imagine]

I still see a major problem with GTL-It is not classic rallying :twisted:

But I bet-you can drive it sideways too :D

:wave:

[Tomi]

hello news to no grip but a long time i have rallye trophy :smash:

i have try the demo version of gtl but i 'am a little decived that the needle of the dash board don't move like in rally trophy
i am a little decived that i can't have a big speedometer too :mad:

If you plan to buy the game, be sure to check the www.ffsca.org forums. An online championship will probably be organised in 2006 :)

[Roger]

I got the game to load for the first time this week! I entered the Touring car challenge and bought an Alfa.............

Slightly troublesome :o first time through the gears was a bit of a trouser tent situation :twisted:

That thing sounds soooo horny :cool:

Great chassis too - any Alfa owners out there I envy you loads :wave:

[Pero_Grozni]

Yes yes-an Alpine owner envys Alfa owners :P