Singtel F1

[subie_rev]

I was just wondering what everyone's opinion is of this sim in terms of realism. I've heard that it's pretty much the same physics model used by the Williams F1 team to prepare their drivers but only with altered suspension geometry and engine mapping (to prevent people from getting their hands on the team's technical data). At first I thought it felt pretty awful, it's gotten a bit better though after I figured out how to drive the car at the limit. Something about the way the car responds to input feels better than LFS, but the F1 car in LFS still feels like it has something that the singtel car doesn't. I think the handling is a bit too linear, it's either neutral steer or full blown oversteer with nothing in between (same feeling with other nkpro cars).

You can get it here if you haven't given it a try yet: http://www.gamershell.com/download_25762.shtml :thumbup:

[AeroMechanical]

Apparently, this is true, that it was developed using extraordinary access to F1 data and under the direction of F1 engineers and drivers (nobody knows which team, but it has been stated that it is not Williams, if that can be believed). I don't know how an F1 car drives like and neither does anyone else, so it's hard to say how realistic it is, but I think it feels pretty good. NKP has a pretty neat tire model, especially as of 1.0.3 and Singtel is based on 1.0.3. I do wonder about the diff though which ought to have an effect on the balance. Going from an electronic differential with a huge amount of variables to a standard mechanical LSD might make a pretty big difference to the handling. It is a pretty different car from the LFS F1.06, but I think I know what you're talking about. It's just a wild guess, but it might be the aerodynamics.

It's a pretty interesting sim though. It's a possibility, and I'm hoping myself, that this F1 car will find its way into NKP eventually. That will be interesting.

ed: I know what you're saying about hating it at first. The entire Singtel sim feels like a rush job and I do have to wonder if that carries over to the car. Once I got a grip on it though, it was a lot of fun to drive.

[subie_rev]

The Williams F1 sim was made by BRD from what I've heard, doesn't Stefano work for them?

I think you are right about the aerodynamics making the two cars so different, it certainly feels like that's the case since the cars seem to behave more like each other at lower speeds. There is still an odd difference though, might be setup related. But I think it's the tyre modelling, LFS models the tyre using 48 different sampling points (and sidewall flex, not sure about this one), pretty sure nkPro just uses pacejka data from Avon. I think Stefano hasn't gotten it quite right with the transition from grip to no grip. When I drive the f1600 I find it very hard to induce oversteer, it just stays neutral kind of like driving in rails one moment then driving on ice the next. If I do manage oversteer it's the kind you get past the limit where you have to recover it. It feels like this same behavior carries over to the singtel car. I also noticed the tyres aren't of the grooved variety like the f1.06, if it's not just a graphic difference maybe it's what causes the big difference in feel.

About the differential, I just realized neither of the sims uses an electronic one :-P. I wonder if it would take too much computing power to model that kind of differential.

[lovretta]

Netkar also has sidewall flex, just as all other sims have. LFS is the only one that actually shows this graphically. Nkp used pacejka before, but 1.0.3 has completley new tire physics, non-pacejka. And that singtel F1 is unfinished heavily... it needs more work...

[subie_rev]

So no more tyre slip curves? Is it just a multi point sampling model now? If that's the case then they've certainly outdone the LFS tyre model by leaps and bounds :thumbup: The oversteer behavior just needs some slight corrections and it will be perfect.

Is it still tyre data from avon though? I assumed the only thing they could provide is slip curves.

also, do you know where I can see a list of all the features and details that nkPro's physics model has?

[AeroMechanical]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_racing_simulators

Don't put much, probably anything really, into this, but there is a little information to be gleaned there. It's probably out of date, especially as of 1.0.3, and much of the information is apocryphal, but it's a start anyways.

RSC would be the place to look really. If and when it comes back, do a search on Kunos' posts. The official website has a bit of information too.

[lovretta]

So no more tyre slip curves? Is it just a multi point sampling model now? If that's the case then they've certainly outdone the LFS tyre model by leaps and bounds :thumbup: The oversteer behavior just needs some slight corrections and it will be perfect.

Is it still tyre data from avon though? I assumed the only thing they could provide is slip curves.

also, do you know where I can see a list of all the features and details that nkPro's physics model has?

I'm not any "insder" :) Don't have more info on is avon supplying data or something similar. The fact about tyre model is what I remeber kunos saying on rsc.

Also, i guess he made the new physics based on various projects he has done for real racing team, including one of the F1 teams (unknown which one it is).

I recall one of his posts on DI in which he states that the F1 engineers compared FFB output of netKar and feedback on the actual F1 car, and "they said it's pretty much same"
Bit of OT, this last part...