GTR2 out now - post your thoughts here

[Dan]

Well I'm still waiting on my preorder from sendit.com, but I managed to borrow a copy to try while I wait :D

I posted some sreenshots in the gallery - http://www.nogripracing.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=511 - for anyone who's interested

I've not done many laps yet, but intial impressions are it feels quite nice, although it does seem a bit too hard to light up the rear tires, most noticeably in the lower powered cars. Perhaps this is just a setup thing, but as I was playing in 'simulation' mode which doesnt allow any aids I expected it to be easier to initiate power slides - maybe I'm just too used to the old bangers in GTL :confused::

[Dan]

update - after driving the Mosler at monza for a while it seems pretty nice, and with low downforce does slide around quite a bit

heres a video of my best lap so far http://www.nogripracing.com/pub/gtr2_mosler_monza.avi

[moatlspeed]

still not out here in germany :mad::

[nufc4506]

getting it tonight

[Kouki-ek9]

I didn't even realize this game was out yet. I'll have to pick one up, even though I'm just starting to get good at GTL.

[zo6scott]

exactly what i'd hoped for,GTR speed and refinement,with the GTL driftability. I'm lovin it!

[Kouki-ek9]

Just got the game today and had a few laps. I have to say, although, to me, the demo was a huge let-down, playing the game has made me fall in love. I'm sure this comes to noones surprise but the game gives a whole new meaning to the word "fast". And, despite the fact that, like many have said, the cars drive like they're on rails and make the game seam easy, since this advantage is common to all cars on the track the game remains a challenge. I think that the emphasis that was placed on driving the car in GTL has been shifted to driving the track in GTR2. I think that driving these cars remains an art form in GTR2 as it was in GTL.

[Bob Dunlop]

Got it today!:D
Love'n it!
Lets race it!

[bentfocus]

The Racing school is great imo. Only played about an hour on a pos computer and it ran great. I also added the brighter headlight fix for GT legends and it works. Can't wait to play more. Right now I'm looking for a us based online league for GTR, anyone have any leads?

[ChrisR]

ive just been playing on a moderatly powered pc and it runs quite well, hi res skins and cockpits were off but still looked pretty good..

i tried most of the options out but i like the custom championships they have added.. i think its a very good idea.

the handling feels ok.. i think it will be a good online experience.

all in all ill give it 8/10.. some things are missing.. mainly eyecandy but i like the general package. :)

[racingfan1]

Got it yesterday for $15 at Best Buy and wow. Love it, feels great, haven't done many laps, but great game from what I can tell.

[BWX]

I like it.

[martin061]

Picked it up today at EB Games - their only copy, since noone Pre-ordered they only sent the one copy to the store. It came with GT Legends for $30 CDN. Incredible! It's too bad they have to bundle it that way to get the name out here in North America, but hopefully it will work. I don't think people realize how really good these titles are.

First impressions:

GTR was good. GT Legends was better. GTR2 is an absolute blast.

The AI are clean and race well. No first lap tangles or punts.

The cars and the tracks look great.

The Internet multiplayer works well, though there are few people online right now since very few people have it.

Better frame rate than GTR (average between 80 and 115 fps with 20 competitors at Donington compared to a high of 95 fps with GTR - Hood view with no mirrors and HIGH all around on an AMD 64 X2 3800 with 3 GB RAM and a BFG 7600 GTOC 256 MB).

Sound has improved, and sounds great.

Can't wait to get on track. Great job SimBin.

[martin061]

update - after driving the Mosler at monza for a while it seems pretty nice, and with low downforce does slide around quite a bit

heres a video of my best lap so far http://www.nogripracing.com/pub/gtr2_mosler_monza.avi

Did you notice that your intruments weren't doing anything in the replay? No RPM and no speed change.

[[RSms]RS]

I cannot believe they have changed the release date till next Friday even though it says on their website it is tomorrow, great so the whole of Europe will have it except us as usual....:mad::

[jrw27288]

GTR2 is a great little sim, like the one guy said gtr was good, gtl better, and gtr2 better than both. I find myslef playing rfactor less and less now that I have gotten this. This is a well polished sim. Rfactor seems lacking now. Granted there are some great mods for it, but it just seems to be lacking. I think it is the lack of version control on the mods and tracks that is turning me off on it. You have 20 different versions of the same track and have to go hunting for the right version of the tracks and mods to make any head way. That said, gtr2 bests rfactor now. Now for the review

I have always been a decent mid pack roadie driver. Killed people in nascar 2003. I find the most enjoyable part for me right now to be the driving school. It has helped me improve my driving technique on roadies.

The championship mode is pretty cool. I am mainly a offline driver anymore and these fill the bill. The multiplayer seems pretty decent, just not enough people online to really stress it yet.

Overall i give it 4 out of 5

[Phart68]

Still waiting on the 6th Oct in the UK.

:cry:

[Al Kicuraz]

Truly Excellent. Done about 200 laps in 2 days. Superb driving experience.

You better have a very fast CPU and Video card. With an AMD 64 3000 and 6800GT, it can struggle on some scenarios in a championship season race.(32-27cars) I am running mid-full graphics across the board on 1280x1024. It looks just amazing, but seems to take more cpu power than the demo did.
Donnington in rain during a championship race with 32 cars saw a low of 14 FPS, but somehow still ran smoothly. It averaged 28-34 during this race, but on one section, and not the pit straight, it really had to work hard.

Normally i see 35-50 FPS with this setup. Amazingly, Mirrors do not give a FPS hit at all.

Learn to drive with your big toe to feather throttle, Porsches are still the toughest to drive, Saleen and Lambo are superb. So far Saleen is the king of the lap times for me.

I ran every car at Oschersleben; Saleen, lambo, 575, Maserati, and C5 were top 5 in lap times, with Saleen a full second ahead of everyone.

The best 19.99 US $$$ I have spent all year. Got to love the day one pricing.

[Al Kicuraz]

has anyone experienced that it does not track race wins? I have won quite a few races, but it shows 0 wins. My championship shows the wins and points, but the profile stats don't. Profile Stats show everything else perfectly. Strange.

Also, on my above ranting, my FPS count were in Cockpit with mirrors on. FPS jumps up considerably out of cockpit, but that just ruins the whole racing experience for me.

If I turn off the FPS count, I would not know if I was at 30 or 100. I get 75-115 FPS while in the cockpit on other games and they still don't drive as good as GTR2 at 35-50 FPS. I think going to 2 gig memory would help; if I do a alt tab and look at memory usage, it is using about 850mb of my gig.

You will barely recognize tracks you know like the back of your hand, the jump in graphics is just amazing. ZERO Flicker-ZERO Jaggies.... Awesome!

[rudy2112@mchsi.com]

If any of you are fog memebers, I tried to post in there, but I have been inactive for so long, I must have been terminated. This game is absolutely amazing. By far the best sim ever. Great graphics, sound, and realism. it has the same feel as GTL. It is a must buy

[frokki]

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ NEGATIVE OPINIONS ABOUT YOUR FAVOURITE GAME, DON'T READ ANY FORWARD!

If you want to hear what I think about GTR2, keep reading..

Firstly, I'd like to comment the so claimed strongest parts of the game - graphics and damage model:

The sun flare is a nice idea, but it doesn't even remotely look like that sun flare I see with my eyes in real life. Considering that GTR2 is a big commercial game, texture quality is quite poor, mostly because of the candy oversaturated colors that look good only in dark. The headlights are a joke, and the biggest bomb was the rain :D. I thought that rain effect on today's PC can be done better than with PlayStation, but I was wrong. The droplets on windscreen look pathetic, and even 10 years ago cars had working windshield vipers in driving games. And what a machine it needs to run properly! I can't understand why it needs so much to run, even when details are dropped down.

The "great" damage model isn't so great in my opinion. I'd rather see working suspension damage than fallen off front bumpers that reveal extremely low-poly and low-res texture body-parts. I like the tyre punctures though, all the punctures I've felt in the game had been believable and entertaining.


Then the biggest flaw, in a game that calls itself a simulation - physics:

The suspension - I don't exactly how it works, and thats not the biggest problem in GTR2 physics, but you have to admit it doesn't look natural how the cars behave on curbs and especially on grass/sandtraps. GTR2 still has the same fake physics engine than GTR and GTL had, only some of the values have changed to make a fake sensation of improvement. Actually I don't know if it's improved or gone worse. Tyre physics for example, are a nightmare. Look at these tyre curves that are for NAPmod (which feels BETTER than the original physics) http://forum.rscnet.org/showpost.php?p=3227414&postcount=61 . If they look like that, the originals must be REALLY f**ked up. And trust me, they are :) the lateral force-slip angle curve has a significant post-peak fall-off which the developer has acknowledged is probably too large and the traction-slip ratio and braking-slip ratio curves are copies of the lateral force-slip angle curve, which doesn't make any sense at all. I remember original GTR and it's 'floaty' feeling, but I honestly can't decide if these ridiculous unrealistic amounts of lateral grip is any better. When under the limit the car just feels too arcade, and because of crap tyre physics that fake added grip messes up even more, over the limit it's too punishing. And also because of the tyre curves, the car is easy to control sideways, but impossible to return even at low speeds. It just slides and slides in the same angle, not spinning or recovering no matter how hard you try.


Controlling the car:

The steering feels (=is) unprecise and laggy, not to mention the force feedback, that actually gives you as much feedback as PlayStations vibrating controller did in 1999. FFB also lags, so when trying to make conclusions from it (when used to drive with proper forces), I often ended up spinning just because it's plainly wrong (and comes from all 4 wheels). On sweeping mid-speed corners (maybe on 3rd gear in power zone) you have absolutely no feeling how close on the limit you are (unless you have played enough to get used to the fake physics and feedback) and therefore the visual feedback is the first one you notice that the car is about to break traction from.


Level of simulation:

The game has turbo-cars like Porsche that sounds quite nice (for the first lap, until you start noticing that something is wrong once again). SEE THE ATTACHMENT! The game doesn't even simulate turbo-cars, they are just N/A engines with power and torque curves made to look like one in turbo-cars. So basically they behave totally wrong in every situation but full and zero throttle. Only the blowoff sounds have been attached to gear changes, and as you can see from the vid, it's totally random how and when they will occur. And how nice it's to hear the turbo, when engine is turned off like in my vid? :D


Community and Races:

EVEN when grip is increased from previous games and driving is EASIER, the races still look like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpmjJdaUXww
Nothing more to say :(


But seeing from the GTR2 forums, the accuracy of physics engine isn't really that important to them. They're fine if it behaves "ok" and how they think it "feels" realistic. To them the physics engine is just another part of the game, and having licensed cars and tracks and a good "illusion" (read: canned effects) is atleast of the same, if not of higher, importance.If you don't care about simulations and just want to race ferraris and porsches fast with more challenge than NFS series offers, this is a must-have game for you! Especially because last time I checked, this game cost 16 euros and it included GTL!

If you scared of my text, I'd suggest to forget about ISI sims and try the grandfather of sims, Grand Prix Legends, or todays brightest star, Live for Speed.

[BWX]

When under the limit the car just feels too arcade

but I honestly can't decide if these ridiculous unrealistic amounts of lateral grip is any better




I often ended up spinning




Too much grip but you still spin.. :roflmao: So you can't even control arcade physics?



I'd suggest to forget about ISI sims and try the grandfather of sims, or todays brightest star, Live for Speed


I like LFS but my ears bleed with the horrible 1995 sound and the same 5 fantasy tracks are boring. The GFX are also so outdated it's just pathetic. Direct x 7 GFX in 2006 is inexcusable.

[RC45]

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ NEGATIVE OPINIONS ABOUT YOUR POST, DON'T READ ANY FORWARD!

If you don't care about simulations and just want to race ferraris and porsches fast with more challenge than NFS series offers, this is a must-have game for you! Especially because last time I checked, this game cost 16 euros and it included GTL!

If you scared of my text, I'd suggest to forget about ISI sims and try the grandfather of sims, Grand Prix Legends, or todays brightest star, Live for Speed.

Buddy, there is NO PC based simulaiton that covers any of your complaints.. period.

They are all compromises... even good old GPL is a bucket of crap when compared to REAL LIFE.

Live for Speed is utter tripe as is NetKAR and all the res... they all over model certain areas and under model others.

Period.

Without all the forces enacting on your body and the visual cues and the car "moving around" under you, then you as a HUMAN are going to have to rely on YOUR interpretaiton of the visual, auditary and tangible feedback through the controller.

So, in other words.. even if the "physics model" is the real thing - it's still just a SIMULATED experience - as you are condensing the entire "experience" to a few flat 2D visuals, a couple mixed sounds and a few bumps and grinds on a wheel

Putting this in to all context, then you would have to be an anti-SimBin fanboy to not note that the difference between Need For Speed and even GTR1 is light years.

Oh - one more thing - how many different cars have you actually driven in real life an then around actual race tracks?

Just wondering - for all I know you might be an F1 race driver, but then again you also might NOT be.. ;)

I am only a "weekend hack" but have driven a number of cars ranging from the Ruf RT12 to the C5 Z06, Spec Miata, street Miata, Lotus Exige, Caterham Superlight etc on street and track, and use these experiences to determine how close "games" (arcdade, console and PC") come to simulating the real deal...

...and if the truth be known, if you want to be super critical, NO GAME EVEN COMES CLOSE.

Period.

But many do an excellent job considering the limited interface options available to fool ones body into thinking "its real".

This in turn leads to an enjoyable and "realistic" experience that helps immerse the player and provide awesome entertainment.

In this vein GTR, GTL and GTR2 and among the best ever.. I place GT3 and GT4 on the PS2 up with these guys as well, even if only because the PD guys took the time to painstakingly model the track surfaces in GT3 and GT4... and that adds a HUGE amount to the experience. Of course their AI sucks and the lack of damage is crummy - but over all the look, feel, sound and "experience" is great one - if you enjoy that kind of thing ;)

Hell, even Forza on the XBox does a better job than some PC games, but the lack of decent controller on XBox is their downfall.

Now - when left with these options and selections, you can see how the current crop of high end PC simulations are some of the best ever.. and GTR2 is one of these.

:)

[frokki]

@BWX: As I explained, the problem is in the tyre slip curve. Up to the limit it has too much grip, but when going over the limit, it's like a different world. And unlogical force feedback doesn't help controlling the car there. As an RBR driver you should recognise this flaw.

@RC45: I just said that GPL and LFS (and NR2003!) have better physics simulation than GTR2. But I'm really upset about all those reviews and extremely big fanbase that claims the physics ultra-realistic, and the game so perfect - and when I get it, it's a huge disappointment. Am I totally wrong here, or are the thousands of fans and hundreds of reviewers wrong? (I still doubt that, but am totally upset how differently I see the game)

This exact same post got LOADS of better welcoming here, than in GTR2 forums, where I got stated as a troll and a "20-year-old kid" that doesn't know whats he talking about...Something wrong with that community? :|

[BWX]

What do you expect to gain by trashing a race sim? Sure it's not perfect, nothing is..

Do you think people will hear what you say and want to go play LFS with you? I don't think so. GTR2 is not as bad as you say and LFS isn't as good as you think it is.

Yeah RBR is great but it also has a long list of problems and shortcomings, so why make an @$$ out of yourself by bashing the hard work of a dev team that obviously did a a very nice job with GTR2?

No one forced you to buy it, if you even did.

[frokki]

What do you expect to gain by trashing a race sim? Sure it's not perfect, nothing is..

I'm really upset about all those reviews and extremely big fanbase that claims the physics ultra-realistic, and the game so perfect - and when I get it, it's a huge disappointment. Am I totally wrong here, or are the thousands of fans and hundreds of reviewers wrong? (I still doubt that, but am totally upset how differently I see the game)

Thats what I expect. A confimation that the (mostly tyre) physics do have serious problems, or proving my opinions wrong.

[RC45]

@RC45: I just said that GPL and LFS (and NR2003!) have better physics simulation than GTR2. But I'm really upset about all those reviews and extremely big fanbase that claims the physics ultra-realistic, and the game so perfect - and when I get it, it's a huge disappointment. Am I totally wrong here, or are the thousands of fans and hundreds of reviewers wrong? (I still doubt that, but am totally upset how differently I see the game)

This exact same post got LOADS of better welcoming here, than in GTR2 forums, where I got stated as a troll and a "20-year-old kid" that doesn't know whats he talking about...Something wrong with that community? :|

Well - we are a slightly differentfan base here ;)

BTW - what is your real world driving experience?

[frokki]

Well - we are a slightly differentfan base here ;)

BTW - what is your real world driving experience?I have no real racing experience. Only 'civilian' traffic or messing around like ice-racing, with couple of hundred different cars. Would irl racing experience add some kind of believability in my opinions?

[RC45]

I have no real racing experience. Only 'civilian' traffic or messing around like ice-racing, with couple of hundred different cars. Would irl racing experience add some kind of believability in my opinions?

Not at all - but just so you know "civilian" driving in traffic in straight lines and following the flow - even in "hundreds of different cars" (which is a little hard to believe that those would be any more than 5 minute test drives) and "messing around like ice racing"** is a lot different to driving a car fast on a closed track.

Even if you had 20 laps in a stock 1970 60hp Mini on a race track you would know what "on or near the limit" driving is like and about - and the fact that all the external inputs and cues as well as the in-car feedback go a long way towards helping you form you opinions.

No one is saying only a race car driver (which I am not) can have a valid opinion, but when your opinion is "it's nothing like the real thing" and you seem to not know what 'the real thing is like" I for one do have a problem with it.

If you just said, "it sucks cause I dont like it and it feels all odd.." then thats a valid and appopriate opinion - as some people say "its great cause I like how it feels" - even if they don't really know what it should feel like.

But when someone says "its great cause it feels like real life" or "they say "it sucks causes it snot like real life" and neither has the practical experience of the "real life" event to compare to, those opinions seem more like fan-boy or hater opinions than anything else ;)

Like - when I say that the Caterham in GT4 "feels" like the real car at the limits... but not quite as good as the Caterham in Enthusia - I am basing the opinion on actual real life experience with that car.

And when I say that the "track surface" of the Nurburgring in GT4 would seem to provide the correct response in the car compared to Enthusia, I am basing that on what I "think" the track should feel like as I haven't been there - but it sure seems like it does.

Both opinions are valid, as everyone may have on e- but one is more likely to match the reality than the other.

Now when I say the RT12 in PGR3 feels nothing like the real car but seems to have the same performance potential as the real car I am basing the opinion on actual experience of an RT12 on track - but when I say the F50GT feels liek the rela car and is awesome I am really just guessing - right?

But the guess is probably close to reality - right? Or is it - as the RT12 felt a little less planted than the real thing, and the F50GT feels super planted - does that mean the real F50GT is super-super planted? Or did they tweek the F50GT to make it feel better?

;)

Now back to our sim in question GTR2 - it has some good and correct feel about it... but there are some behaviours not quite what I would expect at certain limits of handling... but you know what, I have never driven a competion GT3 Cup Car so I couldn't really tell you... I have been shotgun in a street GT3 that was lapping faster than Carrera GT that was still 10 seconds off the pace of a GT3 Cup Car and can tell you the speed of input, response and feedback in the street GT3 running slower than the Cup Car was insane......so I have no doubt that if I did just "jump in and drive" the Cup Car I probably would be either dead slow or randomly spinning off - and it wouldn't be the tyre physics of friction charts fault - it would be me... after all - I have no idea how to drive a GT3 Cup car anywhere near the limits...

.
.
So..... the conclusion might be that the "uncontrollable nature" of the race cars in GTR2 at the limit has nothing to do with a "bad physics engine" - but might be an accurate representaiton of what happens when an untrained weekend hack gets behind the wheel of a slick-tyred GT3 Cup Car... because the phyics is so good :P ;)
.
.


**[not sure what you mean there.. do you or dont you ice race?]

[frokki]

Well, thats a really good point - no-one has ever made me even think about it before. It just points out that even though I'm not happy at all how the cars in GTR2 handle, it doesn't mean anything since I can't prove they shouldn't act like that, as well as some GTR2 'fans' can't prove they should..

That point of yours quite efficiently killed all the point of this "bashing" and speculating, we know that even ASS reporters can't decide what theyre trying to prove and how, so how the hell could we, 'sunday simmers' do that?

I could pull back in my corner to do some more testing with the tyre physics, and think about things in a larger scale, but I'm not sure if I even want to. :p

Maybe I shouldn't even to try understand this whole GTR2 thing..

EDIT: And yeah, I do "ice-race" with some of my friends. It's not RACING by any means, just messing out on ice track with rwd/4wd cars and spike/studded tyres.

[clevy911]

It's hard to really judge how realistic the physics are just by driving the sim or looking at a graph, so we'll skip that. But, I do like the NAP physics change. It just felt better, but did not seem any harder to drive or control with a tweat of the NAP setups included. I'm a big GTL addict and I mainly bought GTR2 to practice my skills with the ghost car, learning my weaknesses and being a better driver in general.
Having said that, I pretty much have put away LFS and rF indefinately. GTR2 is now my back up sim. The "live track" thing and so many other options make this a great racing simulation, but there will always be room for improvement. It's progress, but I had PONG as a teen, so you can see a different point of view.

Before judging the physics and feel of the cars, you have to as a minimum, get a good setup and then be able to drive the car near it's limits. Without that, you're just spinning your tires. There's alot of people that are going to say this sim is crap, but when you get to see them drive online or in vids, you can instantly tell by their driving line that they are just not good drivers yet.

So far, thumbs up ! Like it or hate it, it's probably the most advanced racing sim around when all things are takin into account.

[SafirXP]

hey guys... my first post :)

maybe i expected too much from GTR2 but i was utterly disappointed!

i usually played GTR1 in simulation mode (only auto tranny, clutch, reverse and both traction control on low & abs on high) and it was quite tough, but i loved it. loved the oversteers, work on counter steering & throttle control.

in GTR2 simulation mode it feels a lot easier and all of the cars understeer. is it because they're not setup properly at all? am i doing something wrong in the options menu? i always turn the assistance stuff off other than TC & ABS. the tyre warm up & wear sim feature is the only thing i liked, other than the graphics & the new cars!

to me GTR1 felt more realistic, is it just me? anyways, i end up playing GTR1 or GTL... so gimme some good news please! :(

[mentasm]

turn the all assists off (except auto clutch), drive manual and spend a little time dialling the understeer out of a car. Then you'll see what the game is really capable of. With TC and ABS on you aren't playing in sim mode, and yes it is quite easy.

[wingboot]

Hey frokki,

I do agree that the car behaves unnaturally in the gravel. Perhaps it should get stuck like in real life, but that might adversely affect game play. That really depends on one’s opinion though.

As far as the low speed sliding, especially noticeable during understeer / pushing, and the “unbelievable” grip on high speed sweepers. One must not forget the affect of aerodynamic load. Low speed corners, like the first chicane at Monza, are so slow the car has no down force from aerodynamic components of the car.

What do you think?

[Sp33dRCR]

First-time-poster, first-time-visitor;

All I know is this: simple and plain the game rocks. Me and some friends are picking up new racers left and right from Battlefield 2 and 2142.

I've had to explain the fact each race seems on average 45min - Hour, normal time for a round on the battlefeild....with that I can explain that the races are more then just quick race matches myself and others saw on Xbox live with ToCA2, Forza and associated. Alot of them went out and got ToCA3 a while back and loved the game but found it docile to say the least. Here with GTR2 I've fopund alot of extended game play potential and replay potential...wow really love that part...just too bad I wasn't able to save a replay from a victory in the Porsche Cup. Figured out later that you can rename files and save those replays worth it.