Season 3 - Race 4 - Zandvoort Post-Race [Archive]

DigitAL

7 April 07, 20:28

only recorded 35 seconds of me sat in pit lane. :down: When will the replay be on the server Karlos?

Bit of a mare at the start. T1 ok T2 not ok. Two guys in front of me side by side through T2 then seemed to brake (where you normally don't brake) and I touched him (don't know who it was). It may have been my fault or maybe not. Can't check the replay so I'll hold off the apologies just for now. This spun me but some nice chap helped me back in the right direction so a thousand camels for you!

That was it really, P4 until 1st stop, then P3 on exit, that's where I stayed.

Thanks to all the guys who were getting lapped, you all moved over at the first opportunity. Exactly how it should be. The standard of RACING is excellent, let's keep it that way.

Well done to Sidewinder and Slownlow, didn't see much of ya so don't know how close you guys were to each other. Shame I duffed up my second stop. Put another 100lts of fuel in for about 5 laps, had I got my strategy right I think I'd have been only about 5 secs behind you. I went into the pits and was 57secs ahead in P1 but gleefuly watched you both sail past while the pit dudes were changing tyres.

Great racing tho'....love it. :D

Kneegrow

7 April 07, 20:33

Would have been great race but I had to completely stop from the people having brain lock in turn 3. Was one of the funniest things I have ever seen in this game. Cars flipping all over the place.

All in all I had fun and hope to do it again.

Steve_300ZX

7 April 07, 20:36

that made up for last weeks dissappointment :) just wanted to finish so getting 10th was a bonus, even P1 for a lap or 2 :). I done the same as you digital, and filled up with 100 on second stop, with only 2 laps left to do, know where i made my mistake though, before the race, all that preperation and i do that, lol what a twat. great race though guys , thouroughly enjoyed it. I didnt get replay either so am hoping that it is available to download.

jayblue

7 April 07, 20:40

This track isn't one of my favouritre so i was suprised to be up in third on the grid. Got an okay get away and got down the inside into turn 1, side by side with another car into T2, gave him space on the outside, DigitAL hit me from behind and i spun into the middle of the track and oncoming traffic :( Everyone dived out the way to avoid me, mayhem followed but lucky for DigitAL he just span 360 and continued...
Dropped to last, saw oppis on his roof and poor mcdanger get totalled on the outside too. Got past a few back up to 17th or so, and put a nice move on SVT drivah, then accidentally tapped GTR (516) into the chicane, sorry.
Started making up ground up to tenth, had a great battle with otto :up: , then caught phil and misjudged my move, hit him gently but spinning him in T2. Decided my race was messed up anyhow so i waited for him to restart and took him the fair way. In between all this Karlos please check Squalo79's move on me in T1, he was a lap down and charged straight into the back of me, firing my car into the air, and damaging his own car beyond repair :mad:
Got to my 1st pitstop and the space was filled by otto, had to wait for him to move, lost around a minute, is there any way we can check the pit lane for these issue before using addon track's in future?
I was then unlapping myself on the RSR's and BMW's which was tricky as Nothing and SVT were having a great battle, so i took care not to mess it up, kept getting the blue flag when i overtook them! After the RSR's stopped i had a nice little battle with fane who defended his position well until the pit straight were the vette is much quicker, nice one ;)
Eventually after second stop caught bent and put a move around the outside on him through a long sweeping corner, it was a good battle and on the last lap caught both Karlos and fane's RSR's, just pipping them to the line, Karlos put up a hard fight, it was nice and fair tho too.
Overall an interesting race, just littered with "questionable" instances of driving by some. Congrats to the podium, especially sidewinder, don't know how you beat slown but well done as i thought he'd got this one in the bag!

BuRnY

7 April 07, 20:44

I had a good race. I made three mistakes at the end of the race, that was due to fatigue.

When I entered T3 in L1 i saw a big cloud of smoke, so I slowed down. To my suppries there was a wall of cars al over the track. I started driving over the grass to pass al these cars. When i left the grass I was given a stop/go for cutting the track:P

After the stop/go penalty, i started to save fuel and my tires. I have managed to stick to my tactic, one pitstop during the race. When i finished the race a had about 4.2liters left !!!

It was a boring race, so i hope the race next, would give me more action.

jayblue

7 April 07, 20:45

Bit of a mare at the start. T1 ok T2 not ok. Two guys in front of me side by side through T2 then seemed to brake (where you normally don't brake) and I touched him (don't know who it was). It may have been my fault or maybe not. Can't check the replay so I'll hold off the apologies just for now. This spun me but some nice chap helped me back in the right direction so a thousand camels for you!

:D

I braked because i was understeering out wide and didn't want to push ezza next to me out on the barrier... i was already rubbing with him a little

EzzA

7 April 07, 20:45

Like Digital my replay is stuffed, it only starts at lap 9.

I was one of the ppl ahead of Digital at the start, I started in P2. Got away ok, took turn 1 carefully staying to the left since someone was along side me. Stayed over on the left on exit and through turn 2, somewhere about here someone slammed into the side of me forcing me off the track a bit, but I managed to keep it straight.

Was still in P2 at turn 3 as apparently chaos erupted behind, this lagged up my game a bit.

Sidewinder was all over me in some places on the track, but never in a good overtaking position. So I let him though on lap 3 or thereabouts.

Pitted 1 lap early since my tyres were shot to pieces and got passed by Digital, stayed in P4 until the end.

Congrats to Sidewinder, and commiserations to whoever was caught up in turn 2+3 chaos.

fane

7 April 07, 20:48

Finaly a race finish for me but today i deserved it.At start some guys in back of grid were a bit slow to response to green light so i overtook some but then after turn one there was a huge confusion,vettes all the way,upside down etc and had to stop and wait for that mess disapear.Karlos and Nothing take advantage and pass me.Then it was a excelent fight until pitstop when i saw Nothing say "damm" and i realize he hit escape key instead od enter key.I feel for you Noth you were making a wonderfull race.Then in pit exit another fight with Drivah,once again it was great nice driving Drivah but i knew you were getting trouble with your tyres.then sudenly Drivah disapear from my screen dont know what happen.from that part until the end was dificult to hold my car because tyres were getting warmer but i could manage that and finish race.Congratulations to all especiallly Sidewinder,and my fight fellows,Karlos,Nothing and Drivah.Until next race you know you can find me at nogrip server at afternoons to chat a little and other stuff.:up:
My replay is messed up too so if someone had it right please post it because this one i want to see

APEXTECHUSA

7 April 07, 20:54

i had 5th 1 lap to go lost connection very mad at my results.....

KarlosDaJackal

7 April 07, 21:00

someone ask for a replay?
http://leagues.nogripracing.com/replays/GTR2/S3/

the_wrexer

7 April 07, 21:01

Just like to apolgise if i held anybody up getting into the game. Didnt realise until i got booted that i should have been off server. Sorry about that but thanks for letting me practice for a while before the race. Hear it was quite a race how did the RSRs boys do ?

Sidewinder16

7 April 07, 21:04

Got a good start off the line maintained P5 into turn 1 up into turn 2 Ezza and Jayblue appeared to have contact. DigitAL then had contact with one of the two. I tried braking to avoid a spinning DigitAL but unfortunatly I could not avoid hitting him:(.

After that bit of carnage I was up to P3 chasing Ezza. A few laps later I got past him on the entry into turn 1. This left only slownlow ahead of me. The pair of us were so closely matched on pace that it would take a mistake or a good pitstop on my part to get by him. The pitstops came around and we entered on the same lap seperated by 1 or 2 seconds. Once the tyre changes were finished and the car came off the jacks it was into first gear and fired out of the pitbox ahead of slownlow.

Throughout the rest of the race I had to be quick with my pace as slownlow was turning in lap after lap of good times. Well it was brought home in the end for the race win. Well done to slownlow for second, DigitAL for 3rd.

I must say as well everyone who got lapped done a superb job of getting out of the way of the leaders while not sacrificing their own race:up:.

fane

7 April 07, 21:14

Karlos sorry but that replay file is bad.it says that is a text document and when i rename to vcr i cannot see it in gtr:(

BuRnY

7 April 07, 21:18

make sure its: .Vcr not .vcr !! I had to same problem !!

Steve_300ZX

7 April 07, 21:21

i can only see the previous races in that link for replays????

squalo79

7 April 07, 21:45

[QUOTE=jayblue;81487] In between all this Karlos please check Squalo79's move on me in T1, he was a lap down and charged straight into the back of me, firing my car into the air, and damaging his own car beyond repair :mad:
QUOTE]

jayblue, my apologises to you. didn't see the replay yet, but honestly i saw tht you were going fast as it was since a couple of turns that i was on yr back.started to brake in the same spot as i usually do , and there you go -hit you.
it was my first time racing with you guys and i was impressed about the very nice beahviors. dfntly not like on the common other servers.
i ll make sure to take dfntly more care next time and to hopefull finish the race
hope no bad feelings!

fane

7 April 07, 21:54

Is it possible to rename the replay file uploaded to nogrip?add the Vcr extention because if we click on it,strange numbers appear.If we save target as and then rename to Vcr it doesn show in gtr2 replays.Thanks :)

Steve_300ZX

7 April 07, 21:55

for some reason i cant even see it in the s3 folder

oppis

7 April 07, 21:55

:cry: For the next race i will not qualy just start in the back and drive by the mayham ..;)

PhilH959

7 April 07, 21:56

My very first top 5 with nogrip GTR2 league!:woohoo: Started 10th and missed everone in that lap 1 turn 3 melee...note to burny: I used the grass but ya gotta slow it down or you will get a flag for cutting. after that I settled into 6th for several laps...passed Mberthia twice, once was legit, he moved over, second was legit too, after I got out of the kitty litter...LOL

after getting by him the second time, tires getting worn by then, Jayblue, caught me going into T3...and due to me me braking early (worn tires) he stuffs me into the fence...but he gave me more rear damage then front....He also waited for me to catch up (true racing gentleman!) and gave me that spot back! He then managed to get by me, again, this time cleanly.

I then settled in till my first pit, around lap 13. Took full fuel load and tires. (BTW...I ran this whole race on SOFTS)...then went about 5 laps, and came in again for my third stop, just for fuel. I was lucky enough to catch and pass Gupster, in the pits, to take 5th. He was gaining on me with about two to go, but was unable to close the 10 second gap!!

Many thanks to Karlos and Nogrip for having this very fun and exciting season of racing!
Congrats to Sidewinder, who finally lapped me on the last lap!

KarlosDaJackal

7 April 07, 21:57

Got of the line slow, but got a good drag down the start/finish. Picked up 3 places to 23rd. In turn 2 MBerthia spun me out which was a shame as there was plenty of room for him to pass if he wanted to.

Anyway this meant I hit the road block of C5's at turn 3 backwards. Got going again in 18th so can't complain to much, although the aero damage recieved could be a problem.

Stayed about 18th, one or 2 C5's went by but a few others retired. I know I had to drive a bit defensively at times, but I don't think i outright blocked anybody. Everybody in a C5R got me on the straight anyway.

Still I was leading all the Porsches until Nothing110 got me, down to 20th. Had a nice group of porsches going, Nothing110 then me then fane. We all had up and down laps so we all got fairly close then separated then fairly close. Good racing though for many laps.

About a 1/4 into the race GTR516 passed both Fane and myself at the end of the striaght. I thought he threw his car in a bit dangerously, and flashed my lights at him when he was past. But on the reply it actually looks like a really good pass so sorry about that. Still I was 18th :)

Still the 3 porsches where in a line and the C5's where doing stops. So was up to 11th. Made a little mistake later and fane got by, down to 12th.

Another lap goes by, up to 11th as someone stopped. Could see fane ahead, nothing110 ahead of him, and lots of tyre smoke from nothing110 and SVT's Beamer. This would be make or break time.

Fane lost it braking up the hill. I lost concentration at this time watching SVT and nothing110. Spun it and was in reverse and J-turned as I saw Fane heading straight for me, accident avoided. Even with all that messing was in 10th.

Unfortunatly before the spin my Pirellis where at the magic 100 degress, after it they where at the horrible 105 degress. Spun again ended up reversing again. Just at 25 mins, so i called an early pitstop, was hoping to do 2 more laps to get ahead of Fane.

Stop went great at 52 seconds for fuel and Tyre's, thanks to Sidewinder16 for advice on pitstops. Saw SVT and Fane go out of the pits side by side. That looked cool :)

Out of the pits in 20th. Had some lonely laps chasing down SVT and fane. Was in 14th right up to SVTdrivahs bumper. One of us must have been a little laggy as i obviously hit him but I did'nt feel anything. He went sideways infront of me but I hit the front of his car to straighten him back up. Doesn't really make up for bumping you but it was the least i could do. Sorry bout the initial contact, but i love that real close racing. I'll leave a few more millimeters next time :p

SVTdrivah, did'nt seem to have the pace, so I was in 13th with nothing to do but try and pressure the portugese porsche ahead into making a mistake. Last lap I was getting close to Fane, but then a C5 of Jayblue appeared behind and I was driving defensively again. He got me up the hill, damn that C5 tourqe machine, down to 13th.

One turn left to go, ran really wide and got stuck in the sand. Rejoined to see GearChange go by me. just at the line less than a car length ahead, :chair:

Really fun race and considering my start place and the number of "better" cars in the race I'm really happy with 14th, congrats to Sidewinder16 :trophy: and the rest of the podium and anyone who didn't drive a C5 :)

Kristofer

7 April 07, 22:11

Was looking forward to a nice race with 2stops and the hard compound tyres on my C5.

Coming into T3 I was in 7 or 8th position, when another C5 was blocking the road. Tried to avoid a big impact, by braking as hard as I could and turning out of the way but without much luck. After the hit, someone else ran into me in the back which made my car flip over and end up on the roof :(

Think at least 2-3 other cars ran into me as well, somehow I was back on track after that which made it possible for me to continue. With a car in very bad shape :down: Pushed as hard as I could, but it was impossible to keep the speed I wanted.

I hope everything goes better next time.. :)

McDanger

7 April 07, 22:13

I acheived my qual goal of at least front 3 rows,as expected front 2 rows were a 134's lockout,made a decent start from 6th and ended up on the high wide line for turn one then off we go towards the mayhem,i got a bit nervous when i saw how the front 4 were going into turn 3 with near enough zero margin for error,then as i was mid turn 3 one of them went on the grass,and then i was faced with another 2 vettes side on across the track,thankfully i dropped an extra gear and gave the brakes a slightly harder squeeze,this allowed me to brake and veer hard right,unfortunately i couldnt hold it and ended up eating the barrier nose first,but i did manage not to touch any of the melee',this is where a little look at the replay from my car might be amusing as what seemed like every other car and thier uncle proceeded to come round and whack into me,race over there and then really,and thats not including the stop and go penalty i recieved for track cutting trying to somehow make my way out of the mess and continue,or the fact i done the stop and go then got DQ the next lap :) ,im sure it can all be explained as close racing incident,but theres a niggley little voice in my head that keeps saying "possibly all avoidable...."

Congrats to our podium hotshots,and ofcourse,a very big well done to all who actually managed to survive this one :) .

KarlosDaJackal

7 April 07, 22:26

jayblue, my apologises to you. didn't see the replay yet, but honestly i saw tht you were going fast as it was since a couple of turns that i was on yr back.started to brake in the same spot as i usually do , and there you go -hit you.
it was my first time racing with you guys and i was impressed about the very nice beahviors. dfntly not like on the common other servers.
i ll make sure to take dfntly more care next time and to hopefull finish the race
hope no bad feelings!

I've looked at your race, it was very physical. You got roughed up at bit at the start. At one stage I saw Jayblue bang your door twice. I also saw you spin out ApextechUsa in T1, which looked to be avoidable, but could be put down to a noobish mistake, but the incident where you hit Jayblue in Turn 1, that was even worse.

The pass was never on, you where in 22nd he was in 9th, so at best you would be un-lapping yourself, it wasn't even for position. And it was the 2nd time you made a ridiculous lunge into turn 1 causing our opposition to spin or crash. I think you know you where going to fast as it looks like you blew the engine trying to slow down.

I'll call one of the crashes just an accident. The other one is probably just a very stupid moment, but it has to be punished. You are banned from the next race at Magny. Sorry but those the rules.

fane

7 April 07, 22:29

I saw you Karlos in the last lap.My tyres were totally wasted because of my fight with Drivah earlier after we pit stop.I also like close racing thats the way reality race is but to do that we must know how the other guy drives and i know for sure that you are one of them that i could do that without problems:up:

Steve_300ZX

7 April 07, 22:30

i am looking forward to seeing the replay and the mayhem, mine only starts about lap 9. i was confronted in turn 3 with smoke and flying cars, couldnt really see what was going on as i was looking for a way through, thankfully i found one and managed not to get involved. didnt get a scratch on my car or spin the whole race which i am pleased about as that was my aim. gutted though for the guys that went out early like that, i know what it feels like after all the hard work. one thing that comes to mind though like yourself McDanger is that the race is not won in the first few corners, if it is looking dodgy give way and tuck in behind, at least you live to fight another day and get to race. all in all though it has been great these last 2 times i have been racing with you guys, after all the mayhem of the public servers and the dickheads on there, all of you guys drive like racers, and true pros of the virtual world. now where is that replay Karlos? i want to jump in a few cars :D

svtdrivah

7 April 07, 22:50

I will say this, it was definately a handfull when the tires started to go away on the BMW. I think hard tires was the right decision for me but they got real greasy towards the end of my stints.

I had another great start this week, somehow managed to get through the carnage with a little bit of damage to my bumper but overall the car drove fine. I put some distance between myself and Burny early on, I think he may have gotten caught up with some of the vettes trying to get around him.

Towards the end of my first stint Nothing110 and myself got into a huge battle. I had a substantial lead on him but he managed to hack away at it, I tried to push but there was nothing I couldn do, the tires were gone. Nothing made up the gap but I did not make it easy for him to get around me. We had a great battle back and fourth for several laps. He had several looks but I would close the door, he was obviously quicker in the corners but I would get the time back on the straights. Last lap before my pit stop he managed to get around me. It started to look like this battle would continue because we both entered the pits at the same time! I was right on his tale going into the pits, it was shaping up to be a serious tussle. But he screwed up and hit esc :cry: I thought what a damn shame.

My disappointment soon went away as I leave my pit box, I have a front fender lead on Fane :D coming out of the pits with the rev limiters on. It was sick, the way it all timed itself, it looked great on the replay. So i get the hole shot on him out of the pits and we engage on a multiple lap battle of the ages. I broke too late into turn 1, he gets around me but was too hard on the gas exiting the corner and got tail happy, I would get around him again. This went on for a while, back and fourth. Fane would have a peek and I would inturn close the door. Eventually my tires started to go quick, and my fuel was burning off a lot quicker now because of this battle i was in, Fane had finally got around me and I had to go into to fuel conservation mode :mad: .

Karlos caught up to me, I again tried to hold him off for a bit, we touched at one point, but he corrected the car for me :cool: but I said to myself if I keep this up I wont finish. He got around me and I did not push the issue any further. The car was barely drivable and I needed to save on fuel. I ended up in 16th with 0.3 gallons of fuel left in the tank :eek:

I just want to say nice job by all the vettes. I figured at some point today one of you guys would decide to drive through me at some corner but it did not happen. I held my line and you guys waited for the right opportunity to get around me and on the flipside I made sure to get out of your way when blue flagged. Big thumbs :up: for being patient, much appreciated.

darock

7 April 07, 23:05

Actually, the replay has no file type extension. I think without that, your OS has no idea how to handle it.

So what I did was right click on it and did a "copy as....", setting the assumed ".txt" file extension as a ".vcr" file extension. You have to type that into the identity line, typing "vcr" over "txt".

It will then play ok in GTR2

nothing110

7 April 07, 23:52

Well, what can I say...was a great race up till I hit escape.

Had an excellent battle with SVT for about 5 laps or so, all the while having Karlos and Fane closing the gap behind me. I was really pushing hard, which is evident with the amount of tire smoke I was leaving around the track. Super driving by the guys around me...never worried that I'd get hit from behind, and I tried to make my pass on SVT as clean as I could.

I'm never disappointed if I'm stuck behind someone for a few laps and have to really work to make a pass. Too bad we couldn't continue it because of my error.

Kneegrow

8 April 07, 00:56

Here is a full analysis of the race. You can check just about everything from the buttons at top.

http://www.misfitstoyshop.com/zandvoort/index.html

nothing110

8 April 07, 01:16

Here is a full analysis of the race. You can check just about everything from the buttons at top.

http://www.misfitstoyshop.com/zandvoort/index.html

This is perfect...Thanks

GUPSTER

8 April 07, 01:28

:up: thats too cool! thx :)

Here is a full analysis of the race. You can check just about everything from the buttons at top.

http://www.misfitstoyshop.com/zandvoort/index.html

slownlow

8 April 07, 01:48

i just want to gratz sidewinder on the vicrory. u where the worthy winner of the race, i did what i could to beat ur lap-times...i was too slow all time, when we had worne tyres....but even when good tyres...i feelt soon i had alot of competition, and u made ur driving to one of state world ART. I am very impressed of your performace ! what jayblue did is not acceptable in any case at the 2.last corner of the race...at first lap. (go drive public is my word).

slownlow

8 April 07, 02:37

just to tell people here someting....remeber that u must let the car u pass a place to be in too....make a place where he can be...even if it is in the mid of race line.

oppis

8 April 07, 09:33

I have now been seeing the replay and in turn 2/3 im in contact with the nose of jayblues car and it causes that i am going sideways and to a full stop. :( when sitting there mumbling some bad words :censored: to myself abaout my silly move i got hit in the side by mr.ngr bentfocus that sent me on the roof............ :cry: but in the replay you can see that bent have no place to go but straight ahead in to my side . there are many cars side by side so he cant make the turn to avoid me . So it was just bad luck that i went on to the roof :p

maybe we must have a rule that say no overtakeing during the first lap and if you do that you get a stop and go penalty

KarlosDaJackal

8 April 07, 10:33

I've watched the first lap incident many, many times from lots of angles. this is just what I can tell from the server replay file.

I'm just going to call it a racing incident. Ezza and Jayblue were side by side, Ezza stayed on the outside and left room for Jayblue on the inside. As both cars hit the apex 2 things happened.

In no particular order, Ezza turned in a little bit tighter and Jayblue started to loose the front. Both cars touched, Ezza and Jayblue looked to have held onto the cars, but lost some speed as a result.

DigitAl was so close behind that even with the best reaction times he was going to hit one of the two. So DigitAl hit Jayblue and both spun.

What happened next was that most people tried to avoid an accident with their steering wheels and not there brakes :down: which just caused more bumps as cars flew all over the place unpredictably.

Sidewinder16 was also very close to Digital, and ended hitting him, and then going through the grass to avoid the accident.

McDanger spun all by himself when the saw DigitAl and Jayblue going sideways ahead of him??

Oppis was in 2 minds, first he looked to accelerate, then he seemed to lift and turn for the grass, he had to choose to go between Jayblue who was creaping to the outside, and McDanger who was heading towards the wall at a rate of knots, and likely to bounce back on track. Oppis was a little unlucky I think as he had to guess where everybody was going to end up.

Kristofer Nilsson was accelerating and turning towards the stranded Jayblue, he caught the back of Jayblue :down:

Foxxtrott turned sharply to avoid the accident, and would have got away with it but when Kristofer's car suddenly stopped in front of him he was always going to hit it.

3bjorn steered for the grass but didn't seem to slow down. He ended up in the pile of cars on the outside.

Otto tried slowdown and steer to the outside, but he got caught up anyway.

ApexTechUsa used his brakes well and drove calmly through the incident and went from 13th to 7th :up:

Steve_300ZX, also braked heavily and drove calmly from 14th to 8th :up:

Bentfocus, Gearchange and Gupster didn't brake when Steve_300ZX did, even though they had the same view. The result is they ended up adding 3 more cars to the accident. Bent actually flipped Oppis over on his roof.

Fane slowed down and went for the outside but there was a 5 car road block there.

Squalio79 was slow on the turn before the accident. He went wide and then turned in on SVTDrivah, there was contact, meaning that when he got to the main event, he was already sideways and out of control.

SVTDrivah braked smoothly and didn't make any sharp steering movements, exactly what should be done :up:

Nothing110 was on the grass after avoiding SVTdrivah and Squalo so he was pretty much out of control when he got to the main event.

GTR-(516) tried to slow down also, but was carrying just enough speed to flip over Kristofer.

Me, I could see all the name tags stopped up ahead, So i went into turn 2 slower and got hit by MBerthia. As a result I was backwards when I got to the turn 3 accident.

MBeritha, again after hitting me, didn't seem to put much effort into slowing down, first he steered right, then left before he eventually hit someone :down:

Kneegrow was off the line and on the grass after avoiding my forced spin.

Burny, used the brakes, he slowed right down, saw a gap and drove himself around the accident at a safe speed :up:

Jack Stand III also slowed down a lot, and almost made it through, he just was unlucky to get caught up with a recovering car.

So, can everybody take some learnings from this and move on. Next time we have one of these incidents, I will be looking back at this to see who has learned a lesson and who has not.

Next to Magny, in the Rain, oh and its at night also, can't see any kind of accidents happening there :rolleyes:

oppis

8 April 07, 11:29

A night race cooooooooool i must go training right now . :up:
and as you said i was not sure what to do :confused: brake or hit the throttle . I think
braking would be the right thing to do .:eek:

will it be a server for this new event tonight :roflmao:

jayblue

8 April 07, 11:41

what jayblue did is not acceptable in any case at the 2.last corner of the race...at first lap. (go drive public is my word).

:confused: have you watched the replay???? I'm sure if you were side by side on the inside where my car was you would have yielded the corner? :rolleyes: Its a RACE, i gave room then understeered so tried to slow down to avoid forcing ezza off. I always try to drive fair and i'm disappointed that you obviously have a low opinion of my driving.
I think Karlos's summary is right, we can all learn from this and for my part i apologize to all who lost time in the incident, which BTW didn't include slown, ezza or digital, the 3 other cars ahead of me...

fane

8 April 07, 11:42

The server is already running Magny since yesterday.The password is among the words i just wrote :D
Just to remind some that with rain and at night,some of us may have a fps loss,so check your specs and see if you have to lower graphical settings or not

darock

8 April 07, 11:54

Remember that turn one clusterflocks in night races kill twice as many cars, because almost everyone knocks out their headlights.

KarlosDaJackal

8 April 07, 12:07

Remember that turn one clusterflocks in night races kill twice as many cars, because almost everyone knocks out their headlights.

Yes the cool thing about night races, is that loosing your headlights is worse than spining, so everybody better be ultra careful. Also like fane said, check your pc is up to it.

fane

8 April 07, 12:32

darock

8 April 07, 12:32

! what jayblue did is not acceptable in any case at the 2.last corner of the race...at first lap. (go drive public is my word).

I've been looking at the replay to get a feel for how each of you drive. After all, someday I might actually be lucky enough to run with you.

From what the replay shows, jayblue and ezza were side by side on that short straight after Tarzan (the 1st turn) and into Gerlach (the zig-zag turns). Please remember that we have little or no side view out of our cars. Neither guy could probably see the car beside them. Our favorite "simulation", GTR2, does NOT simulate that aspect of real racing very well.

Both cars have the right to a safe line through turns when they are side by side. That zig-zag has one good line through it and neither driver would have been able to run it cleanly. So the inside driver should not have moved right to follow the good line, and the outside driver should not have tried to continue on the good line but should have been planning to rim-ride when necessary. And of course, halfway through a zig-zag, inside becomes outside etc

But from what I saw, Jayblue didn't do anything different than ezza did. They both tried to go through a zig-zag side-by-side and they'd been making contact since before the entrance to Gerlach, that zig-zag. Jayblue definitely crowded ezza on the entry straight, but then definitely gave him room in the zig. And they hit in the zag hard enough to wreck.

Jayblue stayed on the outside line in the zig, and it looked like ezza was staying on the outside line in the zag. But they both were turned toward each other when they hit. However..........

It really looks like a racing deal. But one that happened because two drivers were running side by side in a game that gives almost no side view. And in a gaming environment that has warping that makes running side by side a very risky thing to do.

darock

8 April 07, 12:48

Well some thaughts:First i expected to have more porsches in this race than actually happen.I know people want to win but seeing the replay and watching our ngt and Drivah fight i think that we have so much fun,something that some vettes didnt have,and only one won the race.AGAIN and AGAIN we dont win a race in first turn neither in first lap.Cars were heavy on fuel,cold tyres,the usual thing that we all know.honestly i didnt like what i saw,it seems that we were on a public server when in first corner half of the pack retires.Im telling this because im thinking about the airpine at magny at the end of the long straight in first lap.Please be cautious there,remember its raining,and tyres are cold.

Surprised there weren't more Porsches?

The race was going to go 30 laps. The Porsche looked to be at least 4 seconds a lap slower than the Vette. In fact, it was almost 5 seconds slower in Qualification and over 5.5 seconds in the race. (looking at the final results)

In prerace preparations, pit stops seemed to cost about 70-80seconds. That'd predict that the best Porsche would be a half lap back at the finish.

KarlosDaJackal

8 April 07, 12:56

Surprised there weren't more Porsches?

The race was going to go 30 laps. The Porsche looked to be at least 4 seconds a lap slower than the Vette. In fact, it was almost 5 seconds slower in Qualification and over 5.5 seconds in the race. (looking at the final results)

In prerace preparations, pit stops seemed to cost about 70-80seconds. That'd predict that the best Porsche would be a half lap back at the finish.

I did my stop in 52 seconds :)

I was suprised that so many people who had no chance of winning still took the C5R, but thats why we have a choice of cars :D

fane

8 April 07, 13:16

I did my stop in 52 seconds :)

I was suprised that so many people who had no chance of winning still took the C5R, but thats why we have a choice of cars :D

Thats exactly what i thaught i mean when i saw Slownlow doing 1.34 in practice,i tryed doing a couple of laps with his setup and i did 1.35.then i made my math:slown,digital,sidewinder,3dbjorn,jay,oppis,mc danger,hummmm too much guys for the win.Then i saw others with vette doing 1.36,7,8.I thought that some of that guys would prefer have a good fight with rsr cars and probably try to win that car class but i was wrong:o

oppis

8 April 07, 14:31

jayblue

8 April 07, 15:07

I already apologized for that in my earlier post, his car was video lagging and stuttered infront of me after he had ran wide and rejoined, didn't have time to react. The first lap was crazy! And as oppis said until my first stop the car was not good to drive...

PhilH959

8 April 07, 15:20

I think the incident slownlow are talking about is the one after 225.0 sek when jayblue overtakes gtr516 in the first lap .
I now that jayblue maybe have some issues at the front of his car since i nearly took it all of in turn 2 . So maybe thats the reason the incident happend

Oppis...first let me say, I am truly sorry for what happened to you. You are a good racer and probably would have been in the running for a podium finish........BUT I about fell on the floor when I just read your SIG....LOL roflmao...racing as oppis upsidedown....too funny.
Phil

PS.....I really don't think that choice of car was all that difficult. Even if everyone had a vette, the end results would be somewhat similar. The real problem is that in a LONG race, there seems to be entirely too much enthusiasm to get the best possible first lap positioning. THAT is what causes these first lap incidents. JAYBLUE and I ran side by side for a couple laps at watkins glen...no problem....BUT not on the first lap. Everyone in this league (regulars that I know) are capable of really good and fast driving, but NO ONE here can manage that on the first lap in traffic. AGAIN...TAKE IT EASY ON LAP ONE!!! ya gotta be there to finish and possibly win.

Kristofer

8 April 07, 16:35

Kristofer Nilsson was accelerating and turning towards the stranded Jayblue, he caught the back of Jayblue :down:

Foxxtrott turned sharply to avoid the accident, and would have got away with it but when Kristofer's car suddenly stopped in front of him he was always going to hit it.

I havent watched the replay again, but before you give me a :down: you should know that the best way to avoid this kind of mess, is not to jump on the brakes and stop, when you have over 20 cars coming up behind you. Now IF its true that I accelerated as you wrote.

No big deal, but I think no matter what the heck I would have done, the same thing would have happened. Just my opinion :drive2:

darock

8 April 07, 17:16

darock

8 April 07, 17:31

BTW, when pitlane has the S/F line through it (as most do) you actually need to look at the lap next to your pitting lap and figure the time lost on it.

My pit was beyond the S/F line in the Vette (in the MoTeC readout test), and looking at lap 10, it was about a 1:46 lap for both pitstops. So the 65second cost of a pit was actually 75 seconds.

whatever...............

GUPSTER

8 April 07, 17:39

Bentfocus, Gearchange and Gupster didn't brake when Steve_300ZX did, even though they had the same view. The result is they ended up adding 3 more cars to the accident. Bent actually flipped Oppis over on his roof.

Fane slowed down and went for the outside but there was a 5 car road block there.

Well, I guess I could have swerved hard to the left and taking gear change out. I had fane on my right so there was nowhere to go there. I was on the brakes (see pic attached) long before bent found oppis. Actually, I did not touch another car in this incident until you backed into the back of my car karlos. Fane and I were pretty well boxed in by bentfocus so I was waiting for him to back out of the fence he was parked on as I didn't want to just RAM and push through him. Just as he started to back out there was a R. S. R. going backwards that punched him towards me again! The first lap red mist seems to get thick when the horsepower is above 400 :) I think reviews of questionable incidents is definitely a step in the right direction. Karlos, thank you for a job well done in administrating the league. You're doing a bang up job ... keep it up!

svtdrivah

8 April 07, 17:42

"SVTDrivah braked smoothly and didn't make any sharp steering movements, exactly what should be done "

My goal from the start was just to get in front of the porsches. it just so happens that i came out of that fracas in 12th and I believe I was ahead of them. I think what happens is, with the quicker cars especially, is the week before the race guys tend to work on their setup and just run hotlaps all week and dont concentrate on running races in traffic with cold tires and full of fuel. Therefore you see incidents where guys get very ambitious and collide with other cars or they go off track overshooting the corner or they accelerate to hard out of a corner and loop it. There is a group of us who will work the week before running full races in traffic and it helps you get a feel for how the car behaves from a standing start in traffic and also you know how your car will perform for a full race distance. Maybe some guys should consider doing this. I personally feel this incident is getting a lot of attention mainly because of who was involved and the amount of cars that were involved. To me Imola turn one I would have thought would have been far more risky corner but everyone performed well through there for the most part. When you get cars with a ton of bhp you get these kinds of incidents. I had a blast either way and bottom line it was a racing incident, they happen, sucks your race gets ruined but it happens to the best of us. Just move on and get working on the next race :)

KarlosDaJackal

8 April 07, 17:58

Pitstop time...............................

When you're figuring out the time lost by each pitstop on the time of the race overall, the 52 seconds required to fuel and change tires is not the significant detail.

The best way to see the time taken by one pitstop is to use MoTeC. I ran a couple of 50min race simulations. When I was driving the Vette, my race laps averaged 1:36. One pitstop lap was 2:51 and the other was 2:70 (damage repair added some seconds if I remember correctly). I only carried enough fuel to go 11 laps to the first stop and then 10 laps to the 2nd and then 9 to the checkers. So the only difference would have been whatever it takes for the 2.2gallons less for the 2nd stop.

Taking the 2:51 pitstop lap time and subtracting the time of an average lap without a pitstop tells you what the pitstop costs you in time. If you only look at the time it takes to fuel/change tires, you really don't have any real idea what affect that one less or one more pitstop will have on your finishing time.

A lap that included a pitstop was going to cost me 65 seconds in the Vette.

A lap in the RSR that included a pitstop was about 70 seconds.

Fueling and changing tires was the majority of those seconds, but slowing to enter the pits and rolling along the pits at pitspeed limit, and exiting should be taken into consideration.

Yea I know that dude. My point was 52 seconds for 4 tires and 92L of fuel is quite good. On a track like this its very easy to maximise the pit entry and exit as its fairly straight, so static times are a good indicator.

In reality the in-lap and out-lap are just as important as the stop, a good in-lap or out-lap is usually how F1 drivers get past in pitstops. Micheal Schumacer was a master of that art, even though stoped for the same amount of time, he seemed to gain anything from 2 - 10 seconds in a pitstop window, by pushing in the in-lap, stoping cleanly in the box, and pushing the car on the outlap.

I know from our races a few people tend to relax on there in lap as I tend to catch up on them before there even near the pitlane. And they tend to be quite slow on there out lap also usually by pushing too hard and making a few mistakes.

I think everyone knows this though. Its as easy as opening motec and seeing how many green sectors you did on your in lap which should be one of your fastest for the race.

darock

8 April 07, 20:08

Yea I know that dude.

Fairly certain you did, but not everyone does, so did all that typing for everyone. Some might have thought your comment about your pitstop taking 52 seconds was a response to my comment about pitstops taking 70 seconds. ;) Good thing about forums is that everyone is reading everything. Bad thing about forums is that everyone is reading everything. :p

McDanger

8 April 07, 21:59

Couple of points i pick up on reading here is,,,,yes Karlos your assesment of my demise is infact just what you observed,i spun off on my own,i did drop down to 3rd and give some extra brakes just before turning in for turn 3 when i saw things looking a bit ominous up ahead,but it just wasnt enough,i almost had it but just didnt get slowed down enough,this leads me onto a point kristoff made about the dangers of suddenly braking at the first sniff of trouble,this will more often that not lead to a punt up the back or at best create another bottleneck,its sort of stuck between a rock and hard place,i was praying inwardly to myself that the leading gang sort themselves out after turn one,but as we approached 3 it was clear they were going for broke there and then,such a shame :( .My final point is about STV's comment on full race setup,i was one of the through the week practice gang and had plenty of close duels on full fuel and race tyres setup,i was constantly asking for someone to knock around the track with learning the "do and dont" zones,lots of fun and a good bit track knowledge was gained,hopefully we can see more in for some magny prep,more numbers will mean better practice with a crowded track.

GearChange

8 April 07, 22:46

I've watched the first lap incident many, many times from lots of angles. this is just what I can tell from the server replay file.

Steve_300ZX, also braked heavily and drove calmly from 14th to 8th :up:

Bentfocus, Gearchange and Gupster didn't brake when Steve_300ZX did, even though they had the same view. The result is they ended up adding 3 more cars to the accident. Bent actually flipped Oppis over on his roof.

i really cant see that i done anything wrong. i was almost at a standstill after braking to avoid the chaos, which in turn gained me a huge shunt up the rear turning me upside down. i was trying my hardest to drive through the mayhem safely. there was nothing i could do about the car entering my view from the right as it launched itself infront of me after hitting another car.

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~toddmatt/gtr2/gc_upsidedown.WMV

darock

8 April 07, 23:18

i really cant see that i done anything wrong. i was almost at a standstill after braking to avoid the chaos, which in turn gained me a huge shunt up the rear turning me upside down.

GearChange, the nice thing about having the replay for everyone to look at is for guys just like you. Anyone who looks at the replay can go to the hood view and sit in your car and see exactly what you saw.

You did a great job on the start when the car in front of you didn't move at all. And getting around the first turn was good driving too. And going through the zig-zag (looking ahead from your hood view) shows that the clusterflock that was developing ahead actually didn't look like much at all until the last second.

That replay shows that you really didn't see much of anything to avoid until the last few seconds. And darned if you didn't get BLASTED from behind. No doubt by someone who saw what you saw, nothing much until the last second.

GearChange

9 April 07, 02:02

GearChange, the nice thing about having the replay for everyone to look at is for guys just like you. Anyone who looks at the replay can go to the hood view and sit in your car and see exactly what you saw.

You did a great job on the start when the car in front of you didn't move at all. And getting around the first turn was good driving too. And going through the zig-zag (looking ahead from your hood view) shows that the clusterflock that was developing ahead actually didn't look like much at all until the last second.

That replay shows that you really didn't see much of anything to avoid until the last few seconds. And darned if you didn't get BLASTED from behind. No doubt by someone who saw what you saw, nothing much until the last second.

i posted the video clip from my replay file to show karlos my brake lights as being on, as the server replay doesnt show me braking.

Deciding to keep your speed and drive around an accident or braking to avoid an accident is really dependent on the situation ahead. Generally though my opinion would be the slower your going the better chance you have of avoiding any trouble ahead.

Like so many people have said before its wise to take it a bit easy on the first few bends. My aim when getting away at the start is to hold my position until things settle down.

mberthia

9 April 07, 02:57

MBerthia, again after hitting me, didn't seem to put much effort into slowing down, first he steered right, then left before he eventually hit someone

Karlos, after reading your first post yesterday I was going to respond that I felt that you lifted off the gas as you saw the melee starting in turn 3 while I did not as I was behind you and lower down the hill. The hit was not a hard one but enough to unbalance your car. Your bumper did not cave in. I call it a racing incident. I decided not to post this, yesterday, as I though it might cause more friction and be though of being a far fetched excuse so I was going to come up with an apology/explanation today. Now I see that you agree that’s what happened, at least partially… As far as braking after bumping you, I was watching you spin, not knowing who it was and saying “oh shit”. I was not trying to pass you, this was my racing line. Then I saw the stopped cars. In a situation like this a driver has a split decision to make as to whether to brake and get rear ended by the 5-7 cars behind or to try and find a way around and assess how many cars are really part of this mess ahead. I can't confirm when I started braking, I don't remember and it seems like the replays are not perfect.

While I call it a racing incident, I realize that if we all say these are racing incidents, we will never be able to prevent the first curve pileups. I don’t have a solution for it as I’m not sure that restricting passing on the first few turns is going to work or make any sense in a racing environment. We just need to keep learning and getting to be more gentleman racers. I do apologize for the bump.

mberthia

9 April 07, 03:01

At the start someone did an “Anthony Davidson” from Super Agury at Melbourne and stayed parked on the grid. Several cars swerved around. I think in part this happens as we all look at the time and drivers countdown and if a driver is missing, we don’t realize that the lights start before 0 secs. At least I think that the green light coincides with 0 secs left and not the start of the red lights. Correct me if I’m wrong.

After my incident with Karlos and the pileup, I restarted from a stop and drove through the grass to avoid cars. I could not have been going fast and got a black flag for cutting the track as 2-3 have mentioned already. Does anyone know how to avoid this as if it’s speed, I was not going fast on the grass.

When trying to get into the pits for the penalty and exiting the last corner, kneegro (I think) was trying to pass me on the right and thus unintentionally blocking me from pitting. Had to go around him and dive in the pits where I got a second penalty for speeding. With that I decided that my race was over and went back on the track just to finish. I got on the track on my third lap already 1 lap behind and I was letting the front group go by, no sense in battling for position.

About midway of the race I let several C5s by over the course of a lap but otto decides he is not going to wait for me to move over and he puts me in the wall. About 100 meters and I was going to let him pas like all the others in front.

It’s not because someone is in the top 5, 10 or whatever position and you are lapping someone in the 20 something position that you can just push him over. I’m still racing and had been very courteous to everyone in front that otto was chasing. I followed him for about 3 laps until he pitted. It’s not like he was any faster than me, at least at that particular time. Anyway, I understand it happened in the excitement of the race but we need to be more careful when overtaking. Look at what happened to Massa today…

McDanger, why did you get a DQ ? Do you know ?

McDanger

9 April 07, 03:11

Im not sure where my DQ came from,maybe my inexperience in choosing through the pit options?,i went in for my stop and go on the lap they told me i must,i think i maybe didnt choose the stop and go option?,as they put some fuel in the car then sent me out,i assumed all was well until one lap later when i was plucked off the track and into the spectate room,after my first stop for repairs the race was done for me then,i decided to just run out the rest of the race for something to do,but it just wasnt meant to be,the way i was issued the stop and go in the first place was a bit annoying,its just based on some code parameters being met,a real person marshall would see i was simply trying to get on my way again,and the fact the track was completely covered in parked cars,some on their wheels,some not,was why i slowly crept across some of the grass at turn 4,i didnt even cut it that much i thought,anyhoos,heres looking forward to magny,i love that place :) .

otto

9 April 07, 03:32

sorry alex ,sorry mberthia ...,careless driving, wont happen again.

KarlosDaJackal

9 April 07, 09:40

Its nice to have a healthy discussion about crashes :D

Anyway like I said before, that is just what I could pick up from the replay file. Just one thing I read a couple of times, phrases such as I could not brake without someone behind me hitting me.

If everybody took that attitude nobody would brake :rolleyes: You have to attempt to slow down and in hitting the pedal and turning on the red lights you are giving the guy behind you a chance to slow down also.

Even if you can't slow down enough the guy behind you might be able too, because he got a couple more metres warning than you did, so he probably won't hit your back, and if he does he will be going slower when he does.

If you have the skills the safest thing to do is
1. Tap the brakes about 10% - warns the guy behind your slowing down and gives your brakes a little pre-heat.
2. Gently apply the full amount of brakes - do all your slowing down here, if you just stomp on the pedal you will lock the wheels and or loose control if you where also turning at the same time. The smoke from the locking and sliding will just make it harder for the guy behind to avoid you.

You have to take responsibility for your own driving, none of this I didn't slow down as the guys behind would have hit me anyway. That just show a lack of respect for safety and a lack of respect for you co-drivers. If you don't brake how can you expect the guy behind you too :confused:

So like I said, hopefully we all learned something from this discussion. 90% of next weeks grid will be the same, so its in our interest if we all learn from each others experiences, and make the next race even better.

Next time we have an accident like this it would be nice to see more people examine there own reactions and how that could have affected the other racers.

For my own part, maybe lifting of to slow down was the wrong decision when mberthia was so close behind, maybe 5% brake pressure would have allowed him to react to the lights on my car. Instead he probably had to wait until he saw the tiny gap close before he could react himself. I guess i'll try that next time :cool:

GearChange

9 April 07, 13:38

I just watched who turned me upside down at T3. It was squalo79 re-joining the track. Looked so avoidable from watching the replay.
I just assumed before i watched who done it that it was the pack of cars homing in on me as i braked to avoid the mess upfront.

I noticed he has beed banned from next race already :p

jayblue

9 April 07, 14:14

Did anyone have to queue for their pit space other than me? Just wondered as no one has mentioned it?

fane

9 April 07, 14:51

Did anyone have to queue for their pit space other than me? Just wondered as no one has mentioned it?

nope all fine with my pit space but i have doubts about magny about that:(

bentfocus

9 April 07, 16:04

I've watched the first lap incident many, many times from lots of angles. this is just what I can tell from the server replay file.

I'm just going to call it a racing incident...
Bentfocus, Gearchange and Gupster didn't brake when Steve_300ZX did, even though they had the same view. The result is they ended up adding 3 more cars to the accident. Bent actually flipped Oppis over on his roof.

Actually, We did not have thae same view as mine was missing a couple of cars. This has happened before on my pc, and I finally figured it out. I had my Vid card set to high quality...now that I switched to let application decide, no more invisicars. I tested this Sunday after last race to make sure it is solved.

I got online, monza, 28 people onboard...saw all vehicles in real-time and on replay. Switched my settings back and tried again, this time there were only 22 cars, yet I could only see 18 of them.

Anyway, if this is a racing incident, why look back to see who learned what?
A pile up in the middle of the track is surely going to be a car magnet now and in the future.