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jukez 24 November 08 14:53

Project: Hotlap Nordshleife tourist

This is looong project. (and based on old post).

About a year ago, I wanted to find out if AI would be faster/slower with some cars compared to human (to me :)). So I spent hours and hours hotlapping AI at Nords tourist and creating a list of fastest times. Then my plan was to hotlap the same cars myself. So that finally I would have material that I could compare my performance against AIs with all the cars in GTL.

Well as usual, I got bored after few TC65 cars, and forgot the whole project.

Now, after almost a year, I started to hotlap once again. Here is the list of fastest AI times I got, my own times (also found in hotlap section) with bold.
  1. Porsche 906 7:53.78
  2. DeTomaso Pantera 7:53.93 (*)
  3. Ford Capri RS 7:54.59
  4. BMW CSL 7:57.25
  5. Porsche 911 7:57.78
  6. Chevrolet Corvette'76 7:59.17
  7. Ford Escort 8:01.94
  8. BMW CSL (red) 8:05.46
  9. Porsche 914-6 8:11.45
  10. Ford Capri (brown) 8:14.60
  11. Ford GT 8:14.70 8:09.779
  12. Chevrolet Corvette'65 8:20.14 8:21.921
  13. Shelby Daytona 8:21.43
  14. TVR Griffith 8:21.86 8:21.709
  15. Shelby Cobra 8:24.85 8:11.261
  16. Lotus Elan 8:25.18 8:15.956
  17. Jaguar E-Type 8:31.75 8:24.753
  18. Austin Healey 8:35.71 8:32.473
  19. Mercedes 300SL 8:37.55 8:34.365
  20. Ferrari 275 8:38.50 8:30.161
  21. Shelby GT350 8:39.00 8:33.502
  22. Renault Alpine 8:46.75 8:30.53
  23. Lotus Cortina 8:47.92
  24. Alfa Romeo GTA 8:49.72 8:36.17
  25. Ford Falcon 8:50.28 8:42.89
  26. Ford Mustang 8:50.91 8:43.825
  27. Mini Cooper 8:57.1 8:49.02
  28. Lotus Elite 8:58.93 8:55.16
  29. Jaguar Mk II 9:07.25 8:59.307
  30. Fiat Abarth 1000 9:08.23 8:57.64
Slowest (Abarth) is about 1:15 or 13% slower than the fastest (Porsche 904). It isn't that much.


Siggs 24 November 08 14:59

Wow, thats some impressive data collection there :thumbup:

carham 24 November 08 15:51

You're a dedicated racer/tester; I admire that.
Guess the Abarth won't be your first pick to go racing with.


campagnolo_1 24 November 08 21:02

I'm very interested where you got the Porsche 904!?

AndreiRS 26 November 08 18:53

What can i do to help you on this project? :mrgreen:

I will start to do my laps there too... Are you using motec? (I don't even know if this is possible).

jukez 27 November 08 08:04

Thanks for your motivation!

AndreiRS: No. I have only used MOTEC with P&G. I have heard it is somehow possible with GTL too, but I haven't tried.

campagnolo_1: Porsche 906 you can get by completing single player GTC65 race series at Cup E. (if I remember correctly?)

You are welcome to join my hotlapping project. You can use those AI times as a reference. After few cars you might notice which you run best compared to AI.

One factor that might make AI to hotlap worse times than human is gearing (eg. Alpine). I think AI uses always the middle gearing (although I'm not sure this is always true(?)). Highest gearing is usually optimum for Nords. Also AI cannot probably change other settings like camber, that can already make some difference in lap time.

Also, the always present human factor make times a bit hard to compare. It is hard to hotlap each car in perfectly consistent manner. For example my Alfa and Mini time is more competitive than others because the hot laps with those cars succeeded very well. Also the Ford Falcon hotlap didn't succeed that well.

The good point here is that I have become more familiar with the track (lapped more than hundred times), and I can always improve the hotlaps and replace the old time with a new (thanks NG forum edit option).

I Added my Healey time.
Edit: 904->906

Zieman 27 November 08 10:23


Originally Posted by jukez (Post 424619)
Porche 904 you can get by completing single player GTC65 race series at Cup E. (if I remember correctly?)

Almost correct.
It is Porsche 906. :)
About the Cup E thing I don't know, haven't gotten that far in the game offline.

jukez 27 November 08 10:43

Fixed few typos in my two posts above. :)

campagnolo_1 30 November 08 14:44


Originally Posted by jukez (Post 424746)
Fixed few typos in my two posts above. :)

that explains it...I thought I was missing out, yet again! :-D


pitradio 17 December 08 11:30

Hmm I have done 7:49.x in a 911
And 8:26.8 in an Alpine

jukez 17 December 08 12:54

That is fast pitradio! You like rear engined cars as well?

Anyway it seems AI is really slow with Alpine.


Pizzaman 17 December 08 16:32

AI doesn't handle rear engined cars well.
The way they control throttle and brake (digital) doens't like rear engine.
Would you like to try the Abarth TCR and see how it goes?

jukez 17 December 08 18:34

More powerful Abarth would be nice Pizza. I tuned up the default Abarth in P&G cause I like the overall handling in P&G plus there is 5 geared version in it.

I found that around 160hp (otherwise default) it would be perfect for my driving? :) If tuned more the default tyres cannot take the power plus you have to be extra careful.


jukez 13 April 09 06:49

As my project goes on, it feels more and more dull. The more powerfull cars require much more practice for one clean lap. I got OK lap for Corvette '65 but I'm still behind the AI. That is shame because it is the only one.

Regarding to setups:
I have started to increase the ride height for GTC-65 cars. It seems to help with the handling. There is many elevations in this track that make it difficult to keep the rear wheels planted. Increasing ride height helps a bit.

Almost all of the GTC-65 cars lack the fifth gear and only have three or four different gear ratios. I usually choose the longest or second longest gear ratio. e.g. I chose the second longest ratio for Corvette '65. It does 155mph on the straight with it. But could go 165-170mph with the longest available ratio. Still I chose the second longest because of the many tight curves that would become slower with the longest.

Lets see how it is with the '76:ers.... :)


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