NoGripRacing Forums > GTR2 Sound editing: Technical Info and Tips

 26 March 10, 23:04 #51 Pawgy     Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Age: 80 I don't believe i have ever seen a game with sounds and sound paths as screwed up as gtr2. It is easy to find and change the .aud file. but if you open it for a variety of cars you see 20 different paths to find the actual sound file for a particular car . it really does not make sense. if you open the sound folder some cars have there own folder like Alfabs BMw and some go into a gtr folder or A gtr2 folder or even an ALMS folder. or a cars folder. many files in these folders are duplicates of files in other sound folders. When installing many mods in gtr2 I have had lots of cars that don't have a proper sound .I have just given up .I find an aud file I like and copy and rename it into the car that does not have a sound or is just plain lousy to start with. Very bad sounds in gtr2 and very confusing. Pawgy
 23 April 10, 18:35 #52 pitstop25 Banned   Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: kent Age: 33 Hi all i am looking for some help getting an rfactor sound into gtr2 the problem i am having is the .wav is not the same as the way they have done it with gtr2 so ext_power on rfactor is????? in gtr2 i tryed to work it out but agtre 3 hrs i just aint getting any were can you please help thanks
26 April 10, 22:47   #53
TheNewBob

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 30

Quote:
 Originally Posted by pitstop25 Hi all i am looking for some help getting an rfactor sound into gtr2 the problem i am having is the .wav is not the same as the way they have done it with gtr2 so ext_power on rfactor is????? in gtr2 i tryed to work it out but agtre 3 hrs i just aint getting any were can you please help thanks
You'll need to match the pitch of the sound with the NaturalRPM value in the .aud file. Its time consuming, particularly with with minimum and maximum values too.

I tend to use the values in the corresponding .sfx file from rFactor.

 3 May 10, 00:21 #54 muzarati   Join Date: Mar 2009 How do you edit the rev limiter sound?
 3 May 10, 14:52 #55 modbaraban     Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cockpit, Kyiv, Ukraine Age: 31 TC/Limiter is a sample that is looped without any pitch changes. Look at the sfx file to find it. RF Endurance Series mod (for example) Code: // AMBIENT SOUNDS (INSIDE) VS_INSIDE_SPEED_LIMITER_TOGGLE=1.0,GTM\2\switch.wav VS_INSIDE_LAUNCH_CONTROL_TOGGLE=null VS_INSIDE_WIND_NOISE=1.4, secondary\roadstones_in.wav VS_INSIDE_ON_FIRE=0.5, secondary\fire_in.wav VS_INSIDE_HORN=Null VS_INSIDE_TRACTION_CONTROL=6, EnduranceSeries\997_GT3_RSR\int_rupteur.wav <-------- THIS (inside) // AMBIENT SOUNDS (OUTSIDE) VS_OUTSIDE_SPEED_LIMITER_TOGGLE=null VS_OUTSIDE_LAUNCH_CONTROL_TOGGLE=null VS_OUTSIDE_WIND_NOISE=1.5, secondary\roadstones_ex.wav VS_OUTSIDE_ON_FIRE=0.5, secondary\fire_in.wav VS_OUTSIDE_HORN=Null VS_OUTSIDE_TRACTION_CONTROL=5, EnduranceSeries\997_GT3_RSR\ext_rupteur.wav <-------- THIS (outside) VS_INSIDE_SEAT=Secondary\seat.wav VS_INSIDE_MIRROR=Secondary\mirror.wav
 3 May 10, 22:19 #56 muzarati   Join Date: Mar 2009 Do you mean this is the pit lane limiter? What about at max rev (7500 rpm)?
 3 May 10, 22:46 #57 modbaraban     Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cockpit, Kyiv, Ukraine Age: 31 RF uses the same sound for pit-lane limiter and traction control. When the engine reaches the 'red line' there is no extra sound added, it's just the normal engine sound that's being interrupted in a weird way. You can try and remove the engine sound samples (eg. ex/in_low, ex/in_med, ex/in_high...) floor it in neutral and you'll hear nothing. It may be different for SimBin titles.
 4 May 10, 05:06 #58 muzarati   Join Date: Mar 2009 Cheers thanks for the info
 16 May 10, 11:35 #59 Jamirofan89   Join Date: Apr 2008 Hey guys! I'm new around here and this is my first posting. I really like sounds and been experimenting with them.I wanted to make the cars louder in tv-replay mode but the cars that had engine sound only had wind noise after tweaking If someone has a good setup especially for P&G mod for the cars to have more "realistic" volume when those V8s pass by please drop me a message on how should I adjust it!
16 May 10, 14:22   #60
DucFreak

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lisboa, Portugal www.gtlw.co.uk
Age: 39

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Jamirofan89 Hey guys! I'm new around here and this is my first posting. I really like sounds and been experimenting with them.I wanted to make the cars louder in tv-replay mode but the cars that had engine sound only had wind noise after tweaking If someone has a good setup especially for P&G mod for the cars to have more "realistic" volume when those V8s pass by please drop me a message on how should I adjust it!
There's no such thing as more "realistic" sound by raising the volume within the sound samples.

Being the creator of those sounds, I can assure you two negative things resulting from more volume (even more than it is) in either the external sound samples or sound command file:

1)- distorted, muddy sounds (as they are already in the limit).

2)- when racing with other cars near you, it will drown your own car sound.

...maybe trying to raise the volume up in the speakers/headphones would be a better idea.

 16 May 10, 15:47 #61 Jamirofan89   Join Date: Apr 2008 Okay.I try that.Thanks!
 21 May 10, 10:53 #62 HenryCO   Join Date: May 2010 Very interesting thread. I am totally new in sound editing but I want to try some things for an rfactor mod. I wonder if there is some kind of software tool to test the sound files as they would sound in-game without having to run the game. It has been already commented in this thread but the link suggested do not work. thanks.
 21 May 10, 11:07 #63 starletinho   Join Date: Jan 2008 Here it is .FMOD, you put the sounds ,put them in the rpm bar , natural rpm and enjoy your samples all together . http://www.fmod.org/index.php/download If im not mistaken its the FMOD Designer.
 21 May 10, 11:16 #64 HenryCO   Join Date: May 2010 Thanks a lot. This is what I was looking for.
 2 July 10, 13:42 #65 backb0ard   Join Date: May 2009 What does the Attenutation entries do? // ATTENUTATION EngineRange=80.0 EngineShape=1.00 EngineAmbient=2.00 ShiftRange=80.0 ShiftShape=1.00 ShiftAmbient=2.00 OtherRange=80.0 OtherShape=0.70 OtherAmbient=0.70
2 July 10, 17:51   #66
modbaraban

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cockpit, Kyiv, Ukraine
Age: 31

Quote:
 Originally Posted by backb0ard What does the Attenutation entries do?
Basically it messes with all sorts of stuff Unfortunately I never found a proper explanation of these parameters. But I've been experimenting.
They change the way the volume increases/decreases with distance from the sound source i.e. the car, more precisely the sound comes from XYZ you'll find in the engine.ini file:
Code:
EngineSound=(0.40, 0.500, -1.95)
Here's an extreme example of what can be achieved
Later I've been able to achieve better results with this.
note how loud the car gets when it's close, but how quickly it becomes silent when it goes further away.
This also brought weird side effects like the engine was too quiet or too loud when using certain cameras like hood or bumper cam, or using look back button etc.

Engine = engine rev samples
Shift = up/downshifts and backfires... and probably gearbox whine too
Other = tire sounds, contact

2 July 10, 22:39   #67
DucFreak

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lisboa, Portugal www.gtlw.co.uk
Age: 39

Quote:
 Originally Posted by backb0ard What does the Attenutation entries do? // ATTENUTATION EngineRange=80.0 EngineShape=1.00 EngineAmbient=2.00 ShiftRange=80.0 ShiftShape=1.00 ShiftAmbient=2.00 OtherRange=80.0 OtherShape=0.70 OtherAmbient=0.70
You're not paying attention, young padawan...

 3 July 10, 09:13 #68 backb0ard   Join Date: May 2009 oh my apologies, missed it the first browsing through. thanks to modbaraban another question though, I was editing some engine sounds' equalization and in-game there were some sort of tweeting flying saucers as I increase rpm. what causes this? is it clipping? Last edited by backb0ard; 3 July 10 at 11:13.
 13 July 10, 09:06 #69 burps   Join Date: Jun 2008 Hi backb0ard, I think I know what you mean. Mostly you will take the sound of an onboard video from youtube or somewhere else. This could be maybe audio compression artefacts, that could happen during recording (because of the poor quality of the audio compression method the Camera was using) or maybe compression artefacts, when audio and video was compressed for the upload on youtube. The common procedure is: (1)Streaming a sound from an onboard vid - (2)take a sample of it - (3)bring it to the same pitch - (4)maybe then EQ, Compression etc. (I prefer Multiband Compression) - (5)bringing the sound in game. Then, above mentioned artefacts could be much more audible when pitched up and/or through (4) compression. Audio editing stage (3) could also be the cause of it, remember you pitch the original sound (up/down) and then the game sound engine will pitch it again depending on rpm. This could also lead to some strange effects (sometimes only at higher or lower rpm). And, if you listen exactly you can often hear some strange artefacts in to the source audio too and it is better then to stream the sound from another vid or take the sound of a similar engine, if the original sounds are too bad. Cheers, burps
 26 July 10, 18:56 #70 Sphinx666     Join Date: May 2008 Location: In the kitty litter Age: 30 Learned allot from your tutorial, but I'm still not sure how the transmission sound works, could you explane? // TRANNY-SAMPLE MIX VS_INSIDE_POWER_TRANNY_1=GTR\tw_M3_onlow.wav VS_INSIDE_POWER_TRANNY_2=GTR\tw_M3_offmid.wav VS_INSIDE_COAST_TRANNY_1=GTR\tw_M3_onhigh.wav VS_INSIDE_COAST_TRANNY_2=GTR\tw_M3_onhigh.wav TrannyInitialRampRPM=1200.0 // ramp volume up to this driveshaft RPM because low pitches sound bad TrannyPowerBlendRPMInside=(2250.0, 6500.0) // blend range using driveshaft RPM TrannyPower1RPMTorqueInside=(2917, 600.0) // natural RPM at which sample was recorded, transmission torque (in Nm) for maximum volume TrannyPower2RPMTorqueInside=(3550, 1700.0) TrannyCoastBlendRPMInside=(2250.0, 6500.0) TrannyCoast1RPMTorqueInside=(2917, 800.0) TrannyCoast2RPMTorqueInside=(4392, 800.0)
26 July 10, 22:16   #71
burps

Join Date: Jun 2008

Quote:
 TrannyPower1RPMTorqueInside=(2917, 600.0) // natural RPM at which sample was recorded, transmission torque (in Nm) for maximum volume
I think the underlined parameter is the one to explain - the rest should be self explaining.
Afaik, if you decrease the value, the volume of the tranny samples will be raised and vice versa. E.g., if you increase the transmission torque value to 1200 Nm, the tranny samples will be played half as loud (?) as before, because the engine has to make an incredilble amount of torque to play the transmission sounds at their maximum volume. Just try it and see how much it changes.

Cheers,

burps

27 July 10, 14:56   #72
Sphinx666

Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the kitty litter
Age: 30

Quote:
 Originally Posted by burps I think the underlined parameter is the one to explain - the rest should be self explaining. Afaik, if you decrease the value, the volume of the tranny samples will be raised and vice versa. E.g., if you increase the transmission torque value to 1200 Nm, the tranny samples will be played half as loud (?) as before, because the engine has to make an incredilble amount of torque to play the transmission sounds at their maximum volume. Just try it and see how much it changes. Cheers, burps
That one I knew, but I'm more interested in the details like for example how can I make the trany sound higher when of the throtle then when on the throtle and such. It's not self explanatory at all, I tried allot and still can't figure it out good enough.

Here is the link to the transmission sound I like to replicate
Know what I mean? It can be done I know it but for that I have to understand what each number does.

27 July 10, 18:36   #73
burps

Join Date: Jun 2008

Quote:
 how can I make the trany sound higher
You mean making it louder off throttle!?

Then decrease the underlined values:
TrannyCoast1RPMTorqueInside=(2917, 800.0)
TrannyCoast2RPMTorqueInside=(4392, 800.0)
If that would be not enough, you will have to raise the volume of the sound sample (TrannyCoast) itself.
You can also try to change the sound of the sample (with EQ or/and effects) to suit to your needs.

Good luck,

burps

 29 July 10, 07:39 #74 Sphinx666     Join Date: May 2008 Location: In the kitty litter Age: 30 That worked, seams the problem was that the Coast and Power were inverted for some reason. Another question: Does any of you have any idea how can I replicate the specific rpm oscilation/wobble of the racing cars. If you don't know what I mean listen when they shift and get back on the throttle. Examples of games that reproduce it quite nicely are Need for Speed Pro Street, Colin McRae Dirt 2 and I eaven heard a moded 911 GT3 RSR (996) in rFactor that had it, and if it can be done in rFactor it can be done in GTR2 and GTR Evo right. I tried to get intouch with the creator of that mod but no luck so far. I would like to state at this point that yes I am moding other peoples mods but since it's for personal use I don't see a problem.
 7 October 10, 12:26 #75 frederick59   Join Date: Jan 2007 hello,how can i get shift up backfires sound like in porsche 997 when they accelerate and change gears and also how can i make these backfires loud? thanks a lot
 26 October 10, 07:21 #76 modbaraban     Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cockpit, Kyiv, Ukraine Age: 31 Is there a way to open any SimBin sounds for editing? Their wav files can't be open or played by the software I'm using.
27 October 10, 18:14   #77
DucFreak

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lisboa, Portugal www.gtlw.co.uk
Age: 39

Quote:
 Originally Posted by modbaraban Is there a way to open any SimBin sounds for editing? Their wav files can't be open or played by the software I'm using.
They sure can mate.

...doing it all originally from scratch is best, cleaner and most artistical aproach though (IMHO).

Try using one of these two (or both, on different areas they complement great to me):

 24 November 10, 21:42 #78 shaystarwars98     Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: USA I'm doing a new exterior idle sound for the StreetSim Murcielago LP 670-4. Hopefully you can help me because you made the sounds . The idle speed of the car is 1300 rpm. In the original sound, the natural rpm was set to 4800 rpm. My sample was recorded at 1300, so i changed the natural rpm to 1300 for the off-throttle. That worked perfectly. My problem is with the on-throttle. I used the same sample, and changed the natural rpm from 4800 to 1300, and the idle sound on-throttle played back perfectly as you would expect, but then when I accelerated, it would add a weird and really annoying, loud whine to the acceleration engine sound. As soon as I went back to the aud file and changed the natural rpm back to 4800, the whine stopped, but my idle sound obviously had the pitch changed way down and made the idling sound sound like crap. How can I get the idle on-throttle sound to sound perfectly without adding this weird whine to the rest of the sounds??? I don't even understand how that's possible as it has nothing to do with any of the other sounds, just the idle sound. I didn't add any transmission whine sounds or anything, just the idle sound and changing the value of the natural rpm from 4800 to 1300. Please help!!! Thanks in advance. Last edited by shaystarwars98; 24 November 10 at 21:52.
 4 December 10, 01:09 #79 shaystarwars98     Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: USA I know it's long and complicated, but can someone please help???
5 December 10, 20:03   #80
DucFreak

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lisboa, Portugal www.gtlw.co.uk
Age: 39

Quote:
 Originally Posted by shaystarwars98 I'm doing a new exterior idle sound for the StreetSim Murcielago LP 670-4. Hopefully you can help me because you made the sounds . The idle speed of the car is 1300 rpm. In the original sound, the natural rpm was set to 4800 rpm. My sample was recorded at 1300, so i changed the natural rpm to 1300 for the off-throttle. That worked perfectly. My problem is with the on-throttle. I used the same sample, and changed the natural rpm from 4800 to 1300, and the idle sound on-throttle played back perfectly as you would expect, but then when I accelerated, it would add a weird and really annoying, loud whine to the acceleration engine sound. As soon as I went back to the aud file and changed the natural rpm back to 4800, the whine stopped, but my idle sound obviously had the pitch changed way down and made the idling sound sound like crap. How can I get the idle on-throttle sound to sound perfectly without adding this weird whine to the rest of the sounds??? I don't even understand how that's possible as it has nothing to do with any of the other sounds, just the idle sound. I didn't add any transmission whine sounds or anything, just the idle sound and changing the value of the natural rpm from 4800 to 1300. Please help!!! Thanks in advance.
Sorry mate, I did not create the externals sounds for that car, only the internal sounds... can't help you there, sorry.

By your description (just trying to imagine as I have no idea about those sounds) I would say that you may have the idle set for ON-throtle and not just OFF-throtle.
If that's the case, perhaps you'll have to change the pitch or/and the RPM lenght (powerband width in use) for that sample in ON-throtle, to make it blend better with the next following sample. All that is done in the AUD file (see the explanations on opening topic posts).

8 December 10, 04:08   #81
shaystarwars98

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: USA

I knew there was a difference between the internals and the external sounds.. The ones on the inside were much more realistic..

Quote:
 Originally Posted by DucFreak By your description (just trying to imagine as I have no idea about those sounds) I would say that you may have the idle set for ON-throtle and not just OFF-throtle. If that's the case, perhaps you'll have to change the pitch or/and the RPM lenght (powerband width in use) for that sample in ON-throtle, to make it blend better with the next following sample.
So basically you're saying I will have to use two different files for the on-throttle and off-throttle?

I did think of taking the sample for the off-throttle, copying it and using it as the on-throttle, but changing the pitch way down of the sound and then in the AUD file keeping the natural rpm of that sound 4800rpm. However, I couldn't find the right pitch, and so in game the sound would be too low-pitched or too high. That is where I've stopped, as I am now completely at a loss as what to attempt next.

What exactly do you mean by "powerband width in use"?? I still don't understand why, when changing the natural rpm to 1300 and using the sample as the idle sound it works, but when i do it for the on-throttle it adds a whine...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by DucFreak All that is done in the AUD file (see the explanations on opening topic posts).
Yeah, of course I use the AUD file.. otherwise I wouldn't be able to edit all of these sounds..

Last edited by shaystarwars98; 10 March 11 at 00:41.

14 April 11, 08:26   #82
ep16

Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Sussex, England
Age: 22

Quote:
 Originally Posted by aaarvinzzz some car mod in gtr2 have a low volume than the default cars in the game..what part of the sound file will i change?
About 2/3 of the way down. Can't remember what the lines are actually called but they are controled by simple decimal numbers. Raise for increased volume. Lower for quieter engine sounds.

 23 May 11, 17:05 #83 jesterv2     Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Overberg,Holland hey,ive got a question,i have made my own internal sounds by following ducfreak's tutorial,thanks alot it helped me out very good!! anyway,im trying to get a certain sound just after shifting up. i dont exactly know how to describe it,i think it's sortoff a little vibration sound. watch this video,just after shifting up you hear a little vibration. this also appears in f1 cars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deq1I...el_video_title i also want this in gtr2,what do i have to do to get that? thanks in advance!!
 26 May 11, 12:44 #84 satya166   Join Date: Sep 2010 I have a problem. When I play GTR2 and I'm using the cockpit camera, when I look at the RPM Gauge and the Speedometer, there's always nothing there. No numbers, just the bar for the RPM. Any help? Computer Specs: Processor: Intel i7, 4.2 gHz RAM: 2.5 GB OS: Windows 7 Ultimate DirectX: 11 Display: nVidia GeForce 7600 GT 512 MB Thanks if you can help.
 24 March 12, 08:24 #85 Redback   Join Date: May 2011 I know this is an old post, but I feel honor bound to say thanks for all the sound file notes. Cheers
 12 August 12, 01:48 #86 Slicerer   Join Date: Aug 2011 Allow me to say thank you to this awesome post, really got me going. Enjoy seeing it perched weirdly on the top of the forum list from me bumping it.
 16 August 12, 21:48 #87 Vanillah   Join Date: Jan 2007 Hi, I have a strange question. In these days RaceRoom has posted some preview images of Georg Plasa BMW 134 Judd, forthcoming in download. I have already made ​​this car for rFactor, posting a video on YouTube at the #1st anniversary of the Georg's death on 2011 Rieti/Terminillo. It's a beta version, the livery is not complete but body, phisycal and all the work is just at 90%. Well, overall we all remember the real car also for his awesome sound, tipically of the Berg HillClimb cars with a F1 engine inside: dark and angry approaching, terrifying and similar to that of an F1 away ... My answer is simple, but in this month I DON'T found a solution to my trouble: speaking of external cam (TV cam) is there a way to render in rFactor this sound difference? Let me explain, there is the possibility to give the car a different sound in TV cam mode when I see her coming (front view) from when it are away (back view)? Attention, it's different problem about doppler effect and acceleration/brake/release: I need TWO different engines sound when I look the car front and when the car is passed and go away ... Someone had resolve the problem? Thank you all!
 16 August 12, 22:37 #88 modbaraban     Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cockpit, Kyiv, Ukraine Age: 31 The answer is simple: no. I know exactly what you mean. Most cars sound different depending if the exhaust pipes are pointing in the direction of the microphone/listener or not. As far as I'm aware none of the released ISImotor-based sims can simulate this. Sorry.
 16 August 12, 23:31 #89 jandri Uploader     Join Date: Aug 2010 Ho, one more that did it. Nice 3d model. Like modbaraban said you cant do that. That engine sound difference is usually in front engined cars because while going towards you you hear it sucking air and any other noises by the engine. While going away you hear exhaust gases from the exhaust pipe(s). Only 1 sound is supported. I wanted to model that car too. But progress is way too slow. http://www.nogripracing.com/gallery/...p?photo=143884
 21 August 12, 17:34 #90 scotty     Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Donington Park Age: 28 Is there any reason why a specific wav file wouldn't play the sound ingame? Trying to make my own sound mod for the 787b, but there is no ingame sound even though the wavs and all file paths in the aud file are ok...
22 August 12, 01:57   #91
DucFreak

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lisboa, Portugal www.gtlw.co.uk
Age: 39

Quote:
 Originally Posted by scottydog Is there any reason why a specific wav file wouldn't play the sound ingame? Trying to make my own sound mod for the 787b, but there is no ingame sound even though the wavs and all file paths in the aud file are ok...
Need more details mate, that's really stripped of info.

In anycase, try the following in an atempt to diagnosis the problem:

1) Bitrate and sample rate of the .WAV ? (should be 16-bit, and 22.050Hz, 44.100Hz or 48.000Hz - last one is better)

2) Is the volume in that specific .WAV sample high enough to be listened in game togheter with other engine samples and sound effects? (try adjusting the slider in the Audio options of the game, i.e, if it's an engine .WAV sample and just for a test try to decrease the volume sliders for the other sounds/effects. If still not working, try next to raise the volume in the specific .WAV sample)

3) In the .AUD file, is the path for that specific .WAV file really OK ? (watch for spacing, spelling and/or weird/wrong characters; small things as these pass unnoticed many times)

4) If it's an engine sound sample, and still in the .AUD file, is the MinimimRPM and MaximumRPM for that sample within the values that it was supposed to be listened? (make sure that it also has no characters typed by accident, that might break the parameter string)

5) ...and the pitch, is the NaturalRPM with correct values and/or making any effect?
(again, make sure that it also has no characters typed by accident, that might break the parameter string)

6) Is the .AUD file name matching the respective line pointed out in the .CAR file of the vehicle you're trying to make sounds for? (if not, correct that and restart game)

There might be other small situations that are caused by simple and common human error (files not in place, silent gaps in the specific sample, etc, etc) but I can't recall more atm.

Last edited by DucFreak; 22 August 12 at 02:27.

 22 August 12, 23:03 #92 scotty     Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Donington Park Age: 28 Thanks for the info man - the bitrate was the problem, for whatever reason GTR2 silences certain bitrates. *shrug* Fixed with a quick touch up in Audacity. Your tip on looping the sounds effectively is very useful, thanks for that also. Now begins the huge trial and error process off getting the rev ranges right
 22 August 12, 23:08 #93 DucFreak     Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lisboa, Portugal www.gtlw.co.uk Age: 39 Nice. Now comes the fun.
 26 October 12, 22:31 #94 jorgemodek   Join Date: Apr 2012 Hey ducfreak first of all i would like to thank you for making this tutorial I was in times a sound modder of tdu2 .. it required a very diffferent sound technique from gtr2 so i always want to give it a try on a more "open" game O que pensas ? (what do you think of it ? ) Last edited by jorgemodek; 28 March 13 at 06:40.
 24 March 13, 07:59 #95 Leaves   Join Date: Jun 2012 Thanks for the info in this forum, can't emphasize how much the car sound in GTR2/rfactor adds the experience. Cheers big ears
3 October 14, 16:16   #96
iAmSmokey

Join Date: Feb 2014

Quote:
 Originally Posted by DucFreak AFAIK the purpose and importance of those adjustments is mostly to adjust the "distance volume/fade" and "agressiveness/attack" of the sound from distance, for swingman (external/rear cam), TV cams (for replay), or when chasing -or being chased- by another car.
Sorry for the necropost, but is it possible to apply the "aggressiveness/attack" values to cockpit view?

3 October 14, 17:16   #97
DucFreak

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lisboa, Portugal www.gtlw.co.uk
Age: 39

Quote:
 Originally Posted by iAmSmokey Sorry for the necropost, but is it possible to apply the "aggressiveness/attack" values to cockpit view?
Holy necro batman! *j/k* (tbh, didn't even remember this thread!)

To answer your question, and AFAIK, these are parameters for outside sounds only (useful mostly to "fly by" cameras).
But if you ment the way they can affect how other cars will sound related to the player's in-car view (when you overtake opponents cars or being overtaken, or hearing them at distance from your car, etc), then yes, it should also affect that.

4 October 14, 11:34   #98
iAmSmokey

Join Date: Feb 2014

Quote:
 Originally Posted by DucFreak To answer your question, and AFAIK, these are parameters for outside sounds only
i managed to figure out my problem, i was looking for a way to add that exhaust note effect that some cars have in chase cam/track cams to the cockpit view, i spend the last 4 or 5 days trying to get it to work trying all sorts of crazy stuff.

oh the hours ive spend editing the sfx file of my hideous little civic with an sound that could make gods ears bleed, oh what an epic facepalm, turns out that the car doesnt use its own civicmk5.sfx but actually some colt.sfx in the main folder which uses civic r3 rally sounds in outside view and renault clio (wtf? why?!) sounds in interior view, doing all the work again with the colt.sfx file (replacing exterior with interior sounds etc.) i finally managed to get it "almost" working, its still a tad off but i think thats due to the boost pressure/transmission noise and the throttle/rev fraction settings.

EDIT: one last question on throttle/rev fraction, which value would affect the sound on different throttle positions or rev ranges more, 0.3 or 0.7?

anyways thanks for your help, i really appreciate it.

Last edited by iAmSmokey; 4 October 14 at 13:02.

4 October 14, 13:54   #99
DucFreak

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lisboa, Portugal www.gtlw.co.uk
Age: 39

Quote:
 Originally Posted by iAmSmokey (...) one last question on throttle/rev fraction, which is value would affect the sound on different throttle positions or rev ranges more, 0.3 or 0.7?
That's a good question, and I'll get there in this post.

I hope I'll make sense here and will go in parts, extending a bit more than usual on the subject of fine tuning sounds, through the parameters of the sound command files (.AUD in SimBin sims, and .SFX files in ISI sims).
So, excuse me if this post becomes a long boring "wall of text", ok?

So, to start, let's say we have this section:
Quote:
 // ENGINE VOLUME MIX playerEngineVolumeMinimum=0.6 playerEngineVolumeThrottleFraction=0.3 playerEngineVolumeRevFraction=0.1 non-playerEngineVolumeMinimum=0.2 non-playerEngineVolumeThrottleFraction=0.3 non-playerEngineVolumeRevFraction=0.4 // ENGINE THROTTLE-POSITION MIX EngineLoadBlendInside=(0.1,0.7) EngineLoadBlendOutside=(0.1,0.7)
This is a section many so called "sound modders" ignore (...tut tut...), either for being scared (or lazy) to mess with it for their own good, or simply because they don't know how to.

These sort of parameters are pretty important (absolutely vital IMO) for any racing game, and actually quite well defined and tunable in the MILES sound system used in ISI based sims, like Simbin's GTR2.
They are also somewhat interconnected here. "....OK, but how?"

One 'rule of thumb' that you should follow religiously for ISI based titles (GTR2, GTL, Rfactor, etc) is, for example, that the more you increase the general volume in the respective parameter (i.e, "playerEngineVolumeMinimum="), the louder the off-throtle will also be.

Which means that, if you just want to increase a little the general volume of the engine, and you're increasing the value for "playerEngineVolumeMinimum=" (as side note, I never ever use more than 0.8 here), then you will also have to decrease the value for "playerEngineVolumeRevFraction=", otherwise the off-throtle will become a bit unbalanced, too loud when you release the throtle pedal in your wheel-controller (or the throtle button/sticker in a gamepad, or joystick, whatever).

Next question could be "but how does one know how much to adjust there?"

You can do it in the same proportions, i.e, if you increase +0.1 in the "playerEngineVolumeMinimum=" parameter, then it usually means you'll need to decrease about -0.1 in the "playerEngineVolumeRevFraction=" parameter.
Vice-versa is also usually true, i.e, if you decrease general volume, you should try to increase the off-throtle in same proportion.
Of course, there's nothing like tuning by fine hearing, so I would always strongly recommend that, as subjective as that may seem.

Then we come up with the "throtle punch", i.e, how the engine sound reacts to the throtle pedal inputs.
This is a quite important one and should be perceived in two main areas because, although with separate parameters, they go hand-in-hand, and work better when combined.
I'll try to explain the best that I can:
1. Volume reaction (to throtle input).

2. Contrast/blending between ON-throtle and OFF-throtle (to throtle input).

So, aproaching each one at a time:

1. Volume reaction (to throtle input).

Think of this in a situation where your car is stopped, engine is on, at neutral gear, and you're blipping the throttle.
The bigger the value in "playerEngineVolumeThrottleFraction=" will mean that the volume will be bigger at lower revs when you provoque the engine (for lack of better term) with the throtle.
This can be a very subjective parameter, but no less important for the end result.

I tend to simplify the values for this parameter purely for practicality reasons (but please do as you find better, it's just my own take).
So, considering that 1.0 is the maximum (so, 100%) and 0.0 is the minimum (so, 0%) *, then something like this will be ideal:
• 0.3 will be nearly a third (or 30%)
• 0.5 will be half-way (or 50%)
• 0.7 will be nearly two thirds (or 70%).
Thefore, I usually choose one of these three values, test and see what fits better the car soundpack I have, blipping engine with the car stopped, and driving around, to get a feel for what sounds more natural.
With that said, I still say a lower value here (so, less agressive reaction at lower revs, better for higher revs) is better than a higher value, more linear through the rev-range, so I tend to use "0.3" most times.

*NOTE: more than 1.0 is not considered, and less than 0.0 (i.e, negative values) is also not considered by the sound system.

2. Contrast/blending between ON-throtle and OFF-throtle (to throtle input).

So, let's say you have two completely different samples for ON-throtle and OFF-throtle, already working in game, perfectly in tune pitch-wise and volume-wise.
But you are driving the car and, when you accelerate and deaccelerate, it's really sounding like someone is pressing an on/off button ("one-or-the-other" effect), it's too abrupt, they're contrasting too much, sounding too detached and separated from one-another.

One hilarious way to ilustrate this could be making engine sounds with your mouth! ().
Imagine your accelerating and deaccelerating exercise is sounding like this:

WAAAAA-POOOO

but what you want is a smoother transition, say, a more "gentle step" (better blending) between the acceleration/deacceleration, more like:

WAAAAAOOOOO

(I know, ridiculous isn't it? hehe)

In this case, it means you're looking for less contrast, more gentle blending between the acceleration and deacceleration.
What you need then is to adjust these following parameters.

Quote:
First, you need to understand what these do, and in the case of this example the two values "0.1,0.7" *.

The first value seen there ("0.1") means it's how harsh the acceleration sound reacts when you press the throtle pedal (important for gentle throtle pedal inputs).
Between 0.05 and 0.3 would be your range for this one.

The second value seen there ("0.7") is the same thing, but for the deacceleration, when you release the throtle pedal.
Between 0.5 and 0.9 would be your range for that one.

*NOTE: more than 1.0 is not considered, and less than 0.0 (i.e, negative values) is also not considered by the sound system.

Higher values are "more agressive" (more like a switch) and vice-versa.
Something like "0.1,0.7" will be about perfect, so long the samples are good and not too alike.
If you're using similar sample(s) for ON and OFF throtle (bad idea, but not uncommon), then you may need a more agressive, contrasting reaction when pressing/depressing the throtle, something like "0.3,0.9".
The opposite is also true for when you have too very different samples used for ON and OFF throtle, and if it desperatly needs some smoothing in this regard. Here something like "0.05,0.5" may be a good idea.

Remembering what I said above, this is also something you may wish to combine with "playerEngineVolumeThrottleFraction=", so take your time and adjust in conjunction with that other parameter.

--------------------------------------------------

As always, there's nothing like driving to get a feel for the sounds, and what you perceive as better for your own sounds. No matter how much "scientific" crap aproach some guys out there may throw around, I still say that your ears -with good audio equipment- are the ultimate fine tuners.
Which in the end means, you may want to drive the car a little, and if not happy yet, then go back to main menu, press Alt+Tab to your .AUD file (or .SFX file if it's the case) and edit parameters, save, Alt+Tab back to the game, load the track and car again, drive it, and so on, untill you're happy with the result.

Sometimes you got yourself a soundpack that, technically (in the sound editor software) seems correct and should be quite ok, but then isn't sounding good in the game, throtle-input wise, even after being correct with the pitch transitions/crossfading for the engine samples.
This is when making these adjustments here make total sense, to benefit things in it.

I just hope these posts (sorry everybody for writing too much) and the whole thread (old as it is, and not too comprehensive or precise) can still serve for something.
Hopefully people will still feel interested to enjoy the experience of doing sounds, on their own and from scratch.
.

Last edited by DucFreak; 4 October 14 at 18:17.

 4 October 14, 14:25 #100 iAmSmokey   Join Date: Feb 2014 thank you very much that was an absolutely perfect explanation, i would include this information in your first post so more people will get to see it, there arent many (good) guides on these values.