NoGripRacing.com

Go Back   NoGripRacing Forums > General Discussion > Computech

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 9 April 12, 19:41   #1
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default The PC freezes randomly

Hi there, it's trouble kid Kitt again

Less than a week ago I've built a new rig as you remember.
All was going very good until today - I've been experiencing few freezing while using the Logitech things (mouse, wheel) - so I had to press 'reset'.

I have a clean less than 1 week old Windows install (XP sp3 because of 3ds max and plugins)
In autorun there are only firewall, antivirus, nvidia panel and Logitech Profiler.
Did a memtest86 and few more tests in safe mode, all passed.
Inspected the motherboard visualy, no burnt capacitors or stuff like this, and well - the mobo was a brand new a week ago. (Asus P8Z68 deluxe I5 2600K)

I think the only cause of those freezes is the fact I've plugged a Logitech Wingman 3D joystick yesterday, to have a quick test on track (I have a setup for work and for modelling on one desk, and gaming monitor and rig separated, in another corner of room).
So all worked fine yesterday and I had no pc restart, but today the freezes came up.
Every time they appeared I was using the Logitech mouse, or heel/toe-ing on G27).
Checked the Profiler, it had some wrong detecting that I'm using the Wingman joystick at the moment, so I've fiddled with Profiler and removed it from autorun.

So far so good, spent 40 minutes in rF without problems,

but really... could Profiler and conflicting game controllers really cause all those weird freezing?
The last time when I had some random freezing like those - it was because my old mobo was dying, and it had the burnt capacitors.
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 19:45   #2
gears
Donated
 
gears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Higgs Boson
Age: 46
Default

One question:

When installing the Profiler software, did you wait to plug in your device until the installation asked you to? And what device did you plug in first?

Ok two questions :p
gears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 20:05   #3
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

actually my bad: I already had a Wingman joystick plugged, and forgot to unplug it, when I was plugging in my G27 for the first time.
So ive installed Logitech software on a machine with plugged joystick (it worked without any additional software).
But I've plugged G27 after I finished the installation, and then I've unplugged the joystick and kept it unused until yesterday. All was running fine during that time.
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 20:20   #4
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

oh god. There was a freeze again, while I was selecting cars in rFactor menu.
And it actually looked like a big slowdown, then freeze. What could cause that :\
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 20:42   #5
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Get a seperate hard drive for CAD and your "other stuff"

That will do more to keep your sims running well then anything I can think of other then doing regular true images of course.

Another freeze.
Do a fresh OS first turn off all bios power green settings and anything in bios not needed.

Do not add anything you do not need Keep it as simple as possible for now .....ie: do you have a USB3 device? then why did you add the USB3 driver. ? etc etc

Do not plug in or install the wheel
( just run races autopilot )
Try to replicate the freeze.
Freeze ? No freeze ?
Now you are getting somewhere just not guessing.

Process of Elimination.......
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 20:59   #6
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

hm, usb3 can cause freezes too?
I have different hard disks for system, games, and work.

right now I'm still thinking about bad memory, or probs with videocard.
Most of the freezes now happen in the car selecting menu. Its definitely not because of the wheel, now I understand that.

but there weren't any probs until today.

ohhhh time for a long headache
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 21:07   #7
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

No I never said USB3 will cause a freeze just making the point.

The less you enable to test helps narrow down possibilities.

I had a mate had a bug for months, he had a via chipset and audio.
After a few failed attempts I disabled the audio dropped a SB card in
and no more freezes.

I would have never guessed that but now if I work with a Via has the same drama it will be one thing I would try to eliminate things. Were as on a Realtek audio motherboard I would leave that as one of the last resorts..... like ....
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 21:15   #8
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

in my case, I have the SB sound card, and I've disabled the onboard audio device in BIOS, also I have hdmi audio disabled in control panel/system, as well as disabled the hdmi audio, cos I don't need it.

The freezes are happening most of the time in the places with a lot of interface things, or 3d.
rFactor menu is the most.

Gonna launch and try 3dmark now.
I'm trying to find any regularities, remembering what I've done yesterday, but all I've been doing yesterday is working in 3ds max, photoshop, and testing in rFactor. In another rFactor installation.

Sorry that I'm writing all of this here, just think that many thinking heads is better than one head
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 21:31   #9
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

lool, i've successfully ran 3DMark06 now, with all on highest... mystery

(i don't have vista/7 so I don't think I can run higher versions of 3dmark... but still... 3dmark... rfactor... 3dmark is making a definitely more load on everything than rF.)
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 21:51   #10
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

aha! ran more 3dmark test now, in the demo mode in the forest there was a freeze.
I have a 850W power supply, so don't think there is not enough power to keep 580 going.

Also I've turned off all the green and energy saving things in BIOS once I've built this PC.
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 22:08   #11
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Yeah any freeze in any 3DMark is not a good sign for stability.

Correct you can only run up to 3DMark2006, personally I think it is the best for stability testing
ie: it will fall over at the whiff of a problem.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 22:30   #12
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

i have some crazy thoughts right now:

due the conditions of my room I have only 1 power socket. I live in a very old house, and sometimes we have problems with electricity (low power). Right now I've unplugged the g27 at all, and so far so good - no more freezing. Maybe that was because of too much power demanding from that socket, so the power supply wasn't receiving enough power? Although its a bit crazy, the psu itself has a lot of capacity, and i don't see any reason why can't it give enough power to the motherboard/videocard.
And maybe this thought will also fail, with a new freeze which haven't happened just yet, but just a thought...
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 23:09   #13
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

actually i've looked at some logs in the event viewer, had some sentences there, googled them and found out that some people are experienced them and all of them were paired with freezes or bsod.
it is some registry problem.
maybe a clean windows install can help with this problem, anyway i haven't installed much, intentionally left some time for testing, only photoshop, 3dsmax, compressonator and rfactor are what was installed.


And weirdly, after unplugging the g27 and the gaming monitor, I've passed the 3dmark test where the pc frozen last time...
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 23:21   #14
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KittX View Post
actually i've looked at some logs in the event viewer, had some sentences there, googled them and found out that some people are experienced them and all of them were paired with freezes or bsod.
it is some registry problem.
maybe a clean windows install can help with this problem, anyway i haven't installed much, intentionally left some time for testing, only photoshop, 3dsmax, compressonator and rfactor are what was installed.


And weirdly, after unplugging the g27 and the gaming monitor, I've passed the 3dmark test which caused freezing last time...
Clean install absolutely, it can't hurt and practice makes perfect ......

If you can do a image backup all the better, that way you lose nothing and can revert to old OS in minutes

Disable everything in bios you do not need IE:
Floppy
IDE ports ( if you run sata devices )
Serial ports
USB3 (if you do not have a USB3 device it is pointless better to disable it then to just install it for the sake of it.....makes no sense to me. )
FIREWIRE
HDD as first boot device not the DVD press F8 anytime you need to boot it.
THERMAL, auto fans, power settings all OFF

Connect Mouse and keyboard, nothing else.

Do install add Chipset, Video, Audio, Lan Drivers and DX
Do a clean up and run 3DMark2006 in loops.

If it crashes whatsoever now you have drama.

Usually I would swap PSU and or video, audio maybe and do quick tests
OR
just pull entire PC apart and reassamble to double check all connections any possible shorts , etc.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 April 12, 23:35   #15
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

now truncated the bad registry items, still got the g27 plugged off, and ran the 3dmark demo mode on all highest for 2 times now, runs like a silk... no freeze, no overburn, max videocard temp was 66 degrees, max core temp was 57.

so it was maybe some malware (although I haven't browse much sites apart from some random diecast models pages or shops, and haven't opened any keygens either). or the lack of power due one power socket... I'll test it more, probably will do a clean windows install.
If its lack of power I guess I'll have to use some power stabilizer, which i have no knowledge about at all
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 April 12, 16:59   #16
takumi69
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default

Have you tried to reinstall the Logitech driver corectly (uninstall, Registry cleaner, and reinstall without any Logitech stuff connected)?
I would try this, before going down Durgedrivenīs route.
takumi69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 April 12, 21:19   #17
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

been testing all day today without wheel plugged, all fine.
so it is maybe because of the driver bug, or those bad registry values I've told before. I've removed them yesterday, and no freezes so far.

Will do a clean Windows install tho. But I want to be glad that it isn't a hardware problem of mobo, or videocard. Please, god, please!
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 April 12, 22:03   #18
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by takumi69 View Post
I would try this, before going down Durgedrivenīs route.

Well I do I not think it is unusual to try at least 2 installs on a PC that is only a week old.

You can tell he does not want to do it ( Fresh OS ) he is too anxious to play which is understandable with a new tower.

But ....this is were we learn about driver installs what to put what not to.

A fresh OS to the point of 3DMark and booting your wheel to test in a existing sim is like a hour of your life..............

It is the people never re-install a OS because they are too worried about losing everything that know squat all about their systems , defeated before they begin.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 April 12, 22:34   #19
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

yeah exactly. I've prepared backups for a lot of time before i've swapped the pc's, so I have nothing to worry about, doing the clean install of windows right now.
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 April 12, 00:29   #20
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KittX View Post
yeah exactly. I've prepared backups for a lot of time before i've swapped the pc's, so I have nothing to worry about, doing the clean install of windows right now.
Since this is your thread I am going to show you how I set up my OS
from the Start.

You going to hear some stuff you never heard anywhere else but it works for me.

Problem is you know :p I am hopeless with composition so I will go away have a cuppa and think about the most concise way I can explain it.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 April 12, 18:29   #21
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

freezes are going on.
I have a clean windows install now, no unneeded drivers, no software apart from 3dmark.

One day I can run 3dmark in a loop for hours and all is good, next day I start my pc and it freezes in the desktop after 3 minutes of working.
EDIT okay, now it froze on windows loadscreen.

No freezes in the bios or bootable testing softwares so far, mhdd also haven't found any probs on system hdd apart from few <50ms clusters.

Last edited by KittX; 11 April 12 at 19:35.
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 April 12, 23:03   #22
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

Actually I've read some forums about my mobo model, quite a lot of people having the same kind of issues. In most cases there is memory mode incompatibility, I've changed the mode in bios and manually adjusted timings, let's see how it goes now.

Running prime95 for about 2 hours now, so far no problems and max core temperature was 60c.

Will run it for another hour, and then will leave memtest86 running until the morning.

Will swap the memory with another stick tomorrow, and will swap the videocard.


Another (false?) regularity I've discovered is that I'm having freezes when the temperature in my room is different, i.e. it was one temperature at the evening when I ran 3dmark for 4 hours, and all went good, but it was another temperature (5 degrees lower) when I launched the PC the next day and the freezes started appearing again.
But maybe its just false theory.
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 April 12, 23:32   #23
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

3DMark 4 hours !
Man you getting addicted.
I never spent 4 hours when I was chasing records 10 years ago.
Well that is a lie ........I used to sit outside at 4am in winter at minus C
with a 12" deskfan blowing icy air into case. lmao


Mmm soz not funny but I got to say you do not hear many people having
dramas with sandybridge.

60C is hot for a AMD but not for a 2600K ( they will do 90C ) it should run all day at 60C load no problem, of course a bit lower does not hurt.

The memory ........you brought with tower ?
PSU specs. ?

How about filling in the blanks
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 April 12, 23:51   #24
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

I've bought the mobo, cpu, memory, psu, vga (actually swapped then), cpu cooler and data hdd at the same time. I had another sata hdd which I use for system now. Also the tower is full-tower InWin modified by me, with Noctua fans in the case, and additional hole with fan for better cooling.

The memory is 1x Corsair Vengeance LP, CML4GX3M1X1600C7
the psu is CoolerMaster Silent PRO RS-850- 850W
I would really have to fix it /or swap some component/ by myself, and then try to take the old one back, because this pc is not only for gaming rig, but for the work which has not much time to wait. If I'll take the components back for the warranty diagnostics, they will be in diagnostics for 2-3 months... Russia, baby. So I need to do all the diagnostics myself, thats why I'm asking for some knowledge advices from you
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 April 12, 03:23   #25
KL Mallender
 
KL Mallender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lapeer , Michigan
Age: 53
Default

Hi KittX, brother..the problems you describe really sound like a defective stick of ram memory, I've swore at my rig something horrible at times, all it was, was 1 flakey stick that could work fine right up till..not.
Reboot and never see it again for a while, it became frustrating to say the least.
I was finally able to catch it error during a Mem-test86 run, but it passed many times before for hours on end, it was 1 out of the four sticks I had didn't like test #5 of Mem-test86.
I ended up taking out 1 stick at a time and run it untill it locked up, after a while of changing out and not having trouble, I ran the suspected stick for a really extended test, yeppers....got it.
I still have that stick on the shelf marked, and if I put it in right now by itself it might fault in a couple of hours or days, I've gone back and tested it when I know I dont need my PC immediately, but it always tested good for at least a good while.
Best of luck to you,

Kevin.
KL Mallender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 April 12, 07:42   #26
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KittX View Post
The memory is 1x Corsair Vengeance LP, CML4GX3M1X1600C7



Why are you running one stick of memory mate ?

If it was HTPC I would understand but if you want the highest performance you run dual channel.

You do not gain a lot, somethings nothing, then again look at Test below GTA4 w/2600K gets +5fps over single channel. I would be grabbing a matching stick.


Last edited by DurgeDriven; 12 April 12 at 08:08.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 April 12, 10:07   #27
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

Thanks Durge, I'll do more memtest today, and if it is memory fault, I'll replace it by two other sticks.
Ran Prime95 for all night lol, no problems at all


EDIT: but if it's memory at the videocard?
Are there any tests like memtest, but for VGA memory? Apart from 3dmark, obviously
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 April 12, 11:04   #28
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KittX View Post
Thanks Durge, I'll do more memtest today, and if it is memory fault, I'll replace it by two other sticks.
Ran Prime95 for all night lol, no problems at all


EDIT: but if it's memory at the videocard?
Are there any tests like memtest, but for VGA memory? Apart from 3dmark, obviously
http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/fur/
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 April 12, 11:06   #29
guybo
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 43
Default

Freezing can be caused by lots of things. How old is your hard drive? Run a disk error check on it. I've had a bad drive cause a problem very much like the one you describe.

Test with no USB devices (within reason- obviously you need a KB and mouse!) and see if the system is stable without them. If it is, plug devices in one at a time and see if the problem pops up. Try USB devices in different USB ports.
guybo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 April 12, 16:25   #30
KittX
Baddie
 
KittX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Age: 26
Default

Replaced the memory stick yesterday with other ones, also should have read the motherboard booklet first - the model of memory like I had works normally only in XMP mode.

1,5 days without freezing now... Doesn't say anything just yet, fingers crossed.
KittX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:36.


Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

www.nogripracing.com 2003 - 2014
Page generated in 0.17076 seconds with 10 queries