A skippy thread - Page 3

waters10 · 10 April 12, 18:02

I'm not actively looking at ispeed while I'm driving. I'm playing on a 96" x 54" (110")projector screen, but windowed mode resized to only 96"x25". So I have more than the top half of my screen free. What I do is I put that extra info up there. I'm not looking at it the whole time, but for example I'm about to get to a turn. I'm looking at the track, searching for my braking point, then the apex, then track out. As I hit the track out, I glance at the ispeed window and see if I have a positive speed delta. If I do, that means I took that corner better than I had taken it in my best lap. It's just instant feedback. And honestly, it's not that much different than looking at one of the black boxes, or your speedometer.

The part I mentioned that is bad for me, is that as I hit the braking point and slam on the brakes, I can see the moment the speed delta changes from green to red with my periferal vision. I'm not looking at it, but it's easily enough to notice a color change. And I caught myself sometimes waiting for that color change to let go of the brakes, which results me in braking too much. So that's something I need to address, by probably moving the window higher, out of my peripheral vision.

As far as books, I've been meaning to get the going faster dvd, but I just can't find it anywhere to rent it. I might buy the book to read one of these days.

~~Jack B~~ · 11 April 12, 00:16

Skip Barber's Going Faster is well worth the purchase. I pick it up and read chapters over and over. It never gets old. The have so many awesome charts graphs, diagrams etc. Speed Secrets is good too, but order Going Faster on Amazon. Worth 10 times it's price, IMO.

waters10 · 11 April 12, 05:03

So just had my first race at Zandy. SOF 1324.

Started 6th. T1 was ok, everybody cautious. 3rd place braked really early at the chicane. 2 guys pass him and we go side by side on the chicane and we touch. At the moment, I thought it was my fault, so I apologized, but looking at the replay, I don't think it was my fault. I was on the outside and we went side by side on the right hander. On the left hander, he kept going right when he should've been turning left already so we hit. I had to pit with wheel damage. Ended up finishing 6th. But my average lap time was actually the 2nd lowest ... Kinda frustrating that I could've finished top 3. At least I only got 1x after my pit stop, so ended up with only 5 inc and had some SR gain.

Oh and I improved my PB to 1.57.1, with 1.56.2 optimals in a practice session. I had a lap where I was 0.5s faster when I go to the chicane and I screwed up there ... I think I should be able to hit 1.56 high before the end of the week.

I'm attaching the replay of the incident. If you have a minute, see what you think. Not that I'm pissed at the guy or anything, I'm just trying to learn and see how to avoid this kind of stuff in the future.

Scalage · 11 April 12, 07:38

You're frustrated? Wait untill you see the replay of my first skip race!
How do you edit a replay anyway? Mine is 115MB but it's the entire race.

Kalifen · 11 April 12, 08:34

From memory: Move to the place you wish to start the replay, click the scissor icon, click/move the endpoint in the timeline, then save. You will then have saved a replay containing only the marked time. Your current replay will not be affected.

Waters10: Not able to look at replays on this computer, but I can make a guess. With a SOF of that kind, the guy you raced probably wasn't the best/cleanest racer in the world. It may be that the line he took was his usual line, it may also be that he lost control/was afraid of losing control, or a number of other explanations. The thing is you can't always trust these drivers. If you have had the chance to observe him for a while, you may make a qualified guess if it is safe to go side by side or not, otherwise the advice is to be very careful. If you have sufficient control in the turn, try looking left a couple of times to see where he is and what he's up to. Particularly that would be a good idea before turning in. In this case it may very well be that he was opening up on the inside again, giving you a chance to wait a bit, turn in and get a good exit on his inside. Don't know without looking at the actual replay, though.

waters10 · 11 April 12, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scalage

You're frustrated? Wait untill you see the replay of my first skip race!
How do you edit a replay anyway? Mine is 115MB but it's the entire race.

What happened? Join me a post a frustrating race report. I need the company!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalifen

From memory: Move to the place you wish to start the replay, click the scissor icon, click/move the endpoint in the timeline, then save. You will then have saved a replay containing only the marked time. Your current replay will not be affected.

Waters10: Not able to look at replays on this computer, but I can make a guess. With a SOF of that kind, the guy you raced probably wasn't the best/cleanest racer in the world. It may be that the line he took was his usual line, it may also be that he lost control/was afraid of losing control, or a number of other explanations. The thing is you can't always trust these drivers. If you have had the chance to observe him for a while, you may make a qualified guess if it is safe to go side by side or not, otherwise the advice is to be very careful. If you have sufficient control in the turn, try looking left a couple of times to see where he is and what he's up to. Particularly that would be a good idea before turning in. In this case it may very well be that he was opening up on the inside again, giving you a chance to wait a bit, turn in and get a good exit on his inside. Don't know without looking at the actual replay, though.

I've read all the general guidelines on how to avoid these incidents. But a couple of things happened on this one. We got to the chicane 5 cars bunched together. Because I didn't want to rear end anyone, I took a very inside line on the braking zone. The P3 driver, took the outside line. We both braked earlier. But as I turned in, I was slower than usual and he turned in much later. So we had very different lines and I couldn't see him until he came back to my screen, quicker than I was right next to me as I hit the first apex. That was fine, we both left space for each other. Then going to the left hander, is what I'd like to know if I was in the wrong, or at least not cautious enough. I was much slower than usual and I thought I left enough space for him, but maybe I should've left even more, or backed off a bit more. But I had a guy right in my tail and I there was a risk of slowing down more than I did.

Anyway, I guess it was a racing incident. I'm just trying to learn from it and avoid it next time.

I gotta say, I'm loving Zandvoort! From the 5 iracing tracks I've raced on, this is my favorite by far! Love the banking in some of the corners, how part of track is very narrow, like the hairpin, then it opens up to be very wide at T8 and T9.

Scalage · 11 April 12, 12:41

Here's the replay. There's absolutely nothing I could've done to avoid this.
Moreover I could've been seriously injured if this happened in real life

Domey · 11 April 12, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by waters10

So just had my first race at Zandy. SOF 1324.

Started 6th. T1 was ok, everybody cautious. 3rd place braked really early at the chicane. 2 guys pass him and we go side by side on the chicane and we touch. At the moment, I thought it was my fault, so I apologized, but looking at the replay, I don't think it was my fault. I was on the outside and we went side by side on the right hander. On the left hander, he kept going right when he should've been turning left already so we hit. I had to pit with wheel damage. Ended up finishing 6th. But my average lap time was actually the 2nd lowest ... Kinda frustrating that I could've finished top 3. At least I only got 1x after my pit stop, so ended up with only 5 inc and had some SR gain.

Oh and I improved my PB to 1.57.1, with 1.56.2 optimals in a practice session. I had a lap where I was 0.5s faster when I go to the chicane and I screwed up there ... I think I should be able to hit 1.56 high before the end of the week.

I'm attaching the replay of the incident. If you have a minute, see what you think. Not that I'm pissed at the guy or anything, I'm just trying to learn and see how to avoid this kind of stuff in the future.

I think the incident was either a racing incident or slightly your fault. Because he was ahead of you and inside of you. You should have backed-off and tried to get by him later. That's just opinion, and please take it with a grain of salt because I'm no great racer by any means. I'm quite sure that if either of you filed a protest for this incident it would be ruled a "racing incident".

Kalifen is right about trusting the other drivers. Don't! I'd say most of us with IR<2,000 should be expected to make some mistakes so it's probably better to give us a little extra room. At least until you "know" us a little better. You'll see a lot of the same guys in practice sessions as you do in races, notice what they're doing there too. If they've been struggling with a corner in practice sessions, don't get risky with them on that corner. A better strategy would be pressuring them from behind going into their "nemesis" corner, then backing off a bit. It may cause them to go in a bit faster than they probably should and bad things often happen then. Just keep from being collected yourself.

This replay looks like typical "first turn winning" or "first lap winning" that you see all too often in lower splits (where I usually am). You probably would have been better off qualifying. You posted times in this post that would have placed you in a better starting position if they were qualifying times. That may have gotten you through all this with only a fleeting glimpse of it in your rear-view mirror.

All in all, I'd say you're doing great!

Better than some of us who've been here a little longer.

waters10 · 11 April 12, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domey

I think the incident was either a racing incident or slightly your fault. Because he was ahead of you and inside of you. You should have backed-off and tried to get by him later. That's just opinion, and please take it with a grain of salt because I'm no great racer by any means. I'm quite sure that if either of you filed a protest for this incident it would be ruled a "racing incident".

Kalifen is right about trusting the other drivers. Don't! I'd say most of us with IR<2,000 should be expected to make some mistakes so it's probably better to give us a little extra room. At least until you "know" us a little better. You'll see a lot of the same guys in practice sessions as you do in races, notice what they're doing there too. If they've been struggling with a corner in practice sessions, don't get risky with them on that corner. A better strategy would be pressuring them from behind going into their "nemesis" corner, then backing off a bit. It may cause them to go in a bit faster than they probably should and bad things often happen then. Just keep from being collected yourself.

This replay looks like typical "first turn winning" or "first lap winning" that you see all too often in lower splits (where I usually am). You probably would have been better off qualifying. You posted times in this post that would have placed you in a better starting position if they were qualifying times. That may have gotten you through all this with only a fleeting glimpse of it in your rear-view mirror.

All in all, I'd say you're doing great!

Better than some of us who've been here a little longer.

I could've backed off more, but I thought I did that enough and left him room. I was pretty slow at this point and I didn't want to slow down more because I didn't want the guy behind me hitting me. I'd never protest this and I don't expect him to protest either. I do feel that he should've started turning left earlier than he did. To me, it's part of the learning curve. I'm glad I apologized either way.

But you're right, I should've qualified yesterday. I thought about it, but I'm not comfortable starting towards the front. I've had a bad experience on the rookie series, where I braked a bit earlier and got rear ended, so I tend to prefer start at the back of the field. I'll qualify today and try again!

Domey · 11 April 12, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scalage

Here's the replay. There's absolutely nothing I could've done to avoid this.
Moreover I could've been seriously injured if this happened in real life

Yeah, it happens sometimes. Looks like he got some of that nice "snap" the Skippy loves to hand out. Not much really for the other guy to do either. Other than lock up his brakes at first tap with the car in front of him, but I can't fault him for trying to make the save there. And once he tried to make the save it looks like it just snapped back on him. I just hate to be in a bunch like that at the first turn. It's a breeding ground for trouble because if a mistake is made, pretty much by anyone in the bunch, there's not much wiggle room before contact occurs. And even if you see the guy in front of you and to your right start to have an issue, and adjust what you're doing to keep clear of him, the guy behind you and to your left has no idea anything is going on at all so he's not adjusting. You don't get away with much tapping between Skippies so that's probably not going to end well.

As far as real life is concerned, I don't know about you, but I could never drive anywhere near as fast as this in real life! I would be leaking fluids and solids, and I'm not talking about the car. I would be dead many times over as would some others who've been unfortunate enough to get into accidents along with me. It's different when there is flesh, blood, and bone involved. Here, I can never get hurt and don't even have to pay to fix the car (other than penalties). If they ever incorporate something like dog's shock collars for iRacing, and you get shocks when incidents occur, I will be so much slower it will be ridiculous! Like, say you got a small shock for a 1X, like having a rubber band around your wrist and having it snapped. Maybe for a 2X you'd get a shock about like a fly biting you and a 4X shocked you hard, like a bee sting. That would slow me down, I'm sure of that!

At any rate, don't let it get you down. It just happens sometimes. As Farmer Fran says in the movie "The Waterboy": "We lih ta play a nuh day."

Scalage · 11 April 12, 18:21

These incidents only get me more eager to improve my laptimes so I can be ahead of this mess right at the start.
As for real life, I've never raced but I do ride a motorcycle (which is bloody scary sometimes!) and I've been in the passenger seat quite a few times at Zandvoort in several cars. So I know the track and I'm not scared of g-forces anymore.

Kalifen · 12 April 12, 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scalage

These incidents only get me more eager to improve my laptimes so I can be ahead of this mess right at the start.
As for real life, I've never raced but I do ride a motorcycle (which is bloody scary sometimes!) and I've been in the passenger seat quite a few times at Zandvoort in several cars. So I know the track and I'm not scared of g-forces anymore.

If you have easy access to Zandvoort, I recommend Bleekemolen's Race Planet - they let you drive fast cars fast for a reasonable price. Examples:
http://www.raceplanet.com/zandvoort/prices

In other news, I had a nice race yesterday. Started on pole, but during the race I didn't feel particularly faster than the bunch behind - only I had a small gap from lap 1, and they were a total of 5 drivers that took turns fighting for 2nd place. They lost time, of course, and eventually there were some casualties, handing me an easy victory. It occurred to me that it possibly would have been more fun, and a race to remember, if I had actually been in that fight, but then again, before every race I kind of always wish for it go like this - get an early gap and not be threatened afterwards... Still, all my best memories are from hard fights.

Scalage · 12 April 12, 11:27

You're right about raceplanet, but there is a slight problem. I don't have a lot of money and I don't have a driver's license for a car

waters10 · 12 April 12, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalifen

If you have easy access to Zandvoort, I recommend Bleekemolen's Race Planet - they let you drive fast cars fast for a reasonable price. Examples:
http://www.raceplanet.com/zandvoort/prices

In other news, I had a nice race yesterday. Started on pole, but during the race I didn't feel particularly faster than the bunch behind - only I had a small gap from lap 1, and they were a total of 5 drivers that took turns fighting for 2nd place. They lost time, of course, and eventually there were some casualties, handing me an easy victory. It occurred to me that it possibly would have been more fun, and a race to remember, if I had actually been in that fight, but then again, before every race I kind of always wish for it go like this - get an early gap and not be threatened afterwards... Still, all my best memories are from hard fights.

Congratz on another win!

I had another disaster last night ... I qualified before the race and posted my PB at 1:57.0! So I was pretty happy with that. There were only 8 drivers for the 11:45pm EST race. During warmup, there was a guy blazing fast on my tail, so I let him go and he opened up a gap really quickly. Come grid time, I'm on pole and this guy is P2. We get side by side to T1, I let him go. P3 almost went by as well, but I managed to hold that. Then I stupidly lost at T2, that kink before hairpin ...

I was furious! Not only I lost control in a turn I never lose control, it's a turn where there's wall all around ... So used the tow, which took 2:30 minutes! Posted my new PB by a few hundreds at my first lap out of the pits. Ended up P5 out of 8. SOF was 14xx.

Looking at the results, I would be battling the guys that took P1 and P2, cause they were posting very similar times to mine. The guy that was flying was posting 1.55 laps, but blew up his engine and finished P3 or P4, can't remember.

Pretty obvious this is a mental issue. I'm pretty safe at this track and quicker than I was at Suzuka. Not really fast, but against some of the same guys in Suzuka, I'm quicker here than there relatively. But I keep screwing up when it matters ...

Scalage · 12 April 12, 16:53

Don't worry, you'll get there eventually. You have the laptimes, now you just need the consistency.
Over here it's quite the opposite, I'm pretty consistent but not that fast at all.

AllanGP · 12 April 12, 22:12

Got twenty laps in;

http://members.iracing.com/membersit...5&custid=37971

a bit more to come I think, we will see.

Kalifen · 13 April 12, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by waters10

Pretty obvious this is a mental issue. I'm pretty safe at this track and quicker than I was at Suzuka. Not really fast, but against some of the same guys in Suzuka, I'm quicker here than there relatively. But I keep screwing up when it matters ...

Not sure if I can offer any other advice than... keep trying? Get used to pressure. Mostly through racing, but possibly also through qualifying (do the full 20 minutes). You may also add some time trials to the mix. People also recommend online practicing - haven't done much of that myself, but I guess it can help getting used to concentrating on your own driving even with others around. Hosted races also function, if you want to race with no ratings at stake.

Btw, when you say the tow took 2:30, that is of course correct, and feels like eons when you simply sit there, but remember that from the point you crashed, there was perhaps 1:40 remaining of the lap? So the real loss is more like 0:50 + getting out of pits and up to speed. Still sucks, though. But at least the car gets fixed, in higher levels you may have to wait even more for repairs that don't bring the car back to 100%, or you wait through the entire tow just to hear "too much damage, we're done".

waters10 · 14 April 12, 02:08

Yeah, no advice will trully help me. It's just keep trying and getting better.

One thing I'm hating this week, is how a lot of the races are not splitting! Seems like participation is quite low this week. Apparently not a lot of people own Zandvoort ...

Regarding the tow, the car gets fixed, but it takes time. They jack up the front and then the back to fix it. I can't remember how long that takes. But you're right! At least I was able to get back to the race, still get ahead of a few guys and gain some SR.

waters10 · 14 April 12, 04:46

Had my best race so far. 14 drivers, SOF 1382.

Started P2 (guess a lot of people don't qualify!). Before the end of Lap 1, I fell to 5th. Had a good battle for 4th place that lasted a few laps. Got passed twice and passed twice, but then I lost control at the hairpin and he t-bone me ... Somehow my car didn't get too damage so I continued, but he had to pit. I felt so bad for the guy .... Specially cause I recognize his name now, from at least 3 other races. Remained on 4th until the last lap, where I lost focus and went off track, lost control again stupidly and got hit by 5th place. At least I didn't ruin his race and he gained my position.

An ok race really, but better than what I was having before.

Domey · 14 April 12, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by waters10

Yeah, no advice will trully help me. It's just keep trying and getting better.

One thing I'm hating this week, is how a lot of the races are not splitting! Seems like participation is quite low this week. Apparently not a lot of people own Zandvoort ...

Regarding the tow, the car gets fixed, but it takes time. They jack up the front and then the back to fix it. I can't remember how long that takes. But you're right! At least I was able to get back to the race, still get ahead of a few guys and gain some SR.

They jack up the car for new tires, not to repair the car. When you get a tow make sure to go to F4 and F5 and deselect the tires and added fuel before the tow timer finishes. You probably don't need the tires and almost certainly don't need a full tank of fuel. It sounds like you're getting them during your pit stop as well and they add a lot of pit time. I try to remember to always deselect them after being gridded, before the green flag.

AllanGP · 14 April 12, 12:59

That is why I've suggested we get Pit Strategy built into the set up file (as I keep forgetting to do this!).

http://members.iracing.com/jforum/po...t/1664765.page

waters10 · 14 April 12, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domey

They jack up the car for new tires, not to repair the car. When you get a tow make sure to go to F4 and F5 and deselect the tires and added fuel before the tow timer finishes. You probably don't need the tires and almost certainly don't need a full tank of fuel. It sounds like you're getting them during your pit stop as well and they add a lot of pit time. I try to remember to always deselect them after being gridded, before the green flag.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanGP

That is why I've suggested we get Pit Strategy built into the set up file (as I keep forgetting to do this!).

Wait, I unchecked all that before. So you have to do that for every race??

AllanGP · 14 April 12, 13:36

Resets when you leave the Pits or go to Grid.

waters10 · 14 April 12, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanGP

Resets when you leave the Pits or go to Grid.

Wow. That's just dumb ... Another thing I'd hope they change for race starts, is that if you register for a race, there's the option to test car on track. I wish you could do that, and when the race is about to start, it would take you there automatically, without having to quit and reload the whole thing. The track is the same and is already loaded in memory!

AllanGP · 14 April 12, 14:24

Yes, exactly and have a 5 min warning if you are in a Practice session for the next race coming up, on by default with the ability to toggle off.

AllanGP · 14 April 12, 14:54

Into the 56's but 2.5 sec of the really fast guy's

;

http://members.iracing.com/membersit...4&custid=37971

waters10 · 14 April 12, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanGP

Yes, exactly and have a 5 min warning if you are in a Practice session for the next race coming up, on by default with the ability to toggle off.

I get a warning if I enroll for a race and hit test a car. It keeps flashing on my screen. But you still have to quit and join the race ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanGP

Into the 56's but 2.5 sec of the really fast guy's

;

http://members.iracing.com/membersit...4&custid=37971

I know what you mean. I got to 1.56.9x yesterday. First time lower than 57. Guys averaging 55 for the race just amaze me!

Gutshot · 14 April 12, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scalage

I'm locking the brakes a little at the last chicane maybe. I don't feel anything at all when braking, the nixim mod should fix that.

One nice thing about the Skippy is that you can actually see if youve locked up any wheel and learn to back off on the brake to get it turning again. (I know you cant see the rear wheels, but if the fronts are still rotating and the rears lock, you will know it as you spin out

)

Dont go by tire squeal or look in the mirror for smoke, just look straight ahead and watch the front tires.

Scalage · 14 April 12, 20:42

But when I lock up it's sort of too late isn't it? The point is that it's hard to know by muscle memory how hard I can brake and that a harder, more progressive pedal will make sure I can nail it every single time (or at least not screw up every lap

).

darock · 14 April 12, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scalage

But when I lock up it's sort of too late isn't it? The point is that it's hard to know by muscle memory how hard I can brake and that a harder, more progressive pedal will make sure I can nail it every single time (or at least not screw up every lap

).

That's an interesting idea.

You know of course that muscle memory is exactly how braking is done in the real world. You judge the feel of the brake pedal with your muscle memory to control your braking.

About the only thing we don't have for braking is the seat of our pants feel. We can compare that to what our muscle memory tells us the brake pedal is doing to decide whether or not the brakes are fading.

If a more progressive pedal worked better in the game, you can bet your life that real world teams would have rheostats in F1 cars before the sun rose again.

darock · 14 April 12, 22:52

In our iRacing, they've said in a couple of different places that they provide the tire squeel for a couple of different uses, and even mention the uses aren't exactly realistic. Honest for sure when it comes to identifying brake lockup...

Scalage · 15 April 12, 09:43

I know it's not ideal, but I simply don't have the money for a load cell so this is the best I can do. And maybe the progressivity will not help me but for sure the increased stifness will.

Gutshot · 15 April 12, 17:23

Ive had the Nixim for a few months and I really like the feel for the price. Convinced me to order a load cell this week for my G25 pedals. More brake pedal resistance also makes it easier to be more accurate on heel/toe/blip downshifting braking.

I use the tire squeal sound to help gauge my tire traction in tight turns, since iRacing cannot simulate lateral g forces.

I am also sure braking is mostly muscle memory but with open wheel you certainly get to use your eyes and its not too hard. (When I trained in the real Skippy they had us do braking exercises the first day and told us to watch the front tires and to modulate (let up) on the pedal if a lockup was about to happen. It took me a while, and a flat spotted left front, before I could do it right. Under heavy braking, the wheels actually begin to turn more slowly than "correct" while still in full road contact and before starting to slide. This is before locking up and losing adhesion.)

I believe that the Skip Barber book also mentions this. The F1 drivers seem to be really good at this. Sometimes its easier than others, especially if there is a tire logo on the inside of the tire for reference.

AllanGP · 16 April 12, 08:57

Low 56's now, might do a Skippy race later to try and get my $5

;

http://members.iracing.com/membersit...0&custid=37971

Kalifen · 16 April 12, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gutshot

I use the tire squeal sound to help gauge my tire traction in tight turns, since iRacing cannot simulate lateral g forces.

Well, when one day we find ourselves owning lots and lots of money, we could buy a g-seat, like UltraForce. Nice quote here:
http://members.iracing.com/jforum/po...4.page#4315322
"You can really tell when the car is planted on the road or if the weight is still transferring. I was really surprised by how much it helped me with my braking. I don't think I have locked the brakes once since sitting down in the GS-4."

In other news, while Zandvoort is one of my favourite tracks, I have had the flu the last few days and haven't really felt up to driving. Still not, actually. Some weeks ago I did try entering a race while being sick (a lot more, though), and even though the result was still good, I remember getting extremely exhausted. During the race, I believe the heart rate was higher than during normal races, and it took several hours to actually feel relaxed and feeling some energy in the body again after the race. So, lesson learned: Don't race while being sick...

Anyhow, this leaves only one track left for me this season: Jefferson reverse. This could be a challenge in traffic... Probably will be some backmarkers to avoid. Although, it will be the shortest race of the season, and lowest fuel is enough. Biggest challenge for me will be the turn 4/5 right hander, which is kind of like turn 1 at Suzuka, only tighter and with no run-off. Either I will lose some time there, or I need to go "against my religion" and left foot brake - probably will lose some time due to not having any practice with that, but maybe less. At least, I guess I need the left foot ready for saving screw ups from time to time. In the MX5 during a week 13, I had lots of success jumping super quickly between brake and gas in that turn, but somehow I doubt that's gonna work in the Skippy

EDIT: Will not be able to participate in any high SOF races anyhow, so I guess it's up to the other participants to decide where I end up in the championship - fingers crossed for a top 25 overall

Hotsocks · 16 April 12, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanGP

Low 56's now, might do a Skippy race later to try and get my $5

;

http://members.iracing.com/membersit...0&custid=37971

I think you should be able to go quicker than that Allan. I can do 1.55.5 without any discernable skill or risk taking- just driving lines. (pb 1.54.8)

I've only seen sections of these books like Speed Secrets and Going Faster on the net. and generally feel what I've read hinders rather than helps in iRacing because the physics doesn't work like that. It's much too slippery.

The skid sound is a massive shortcoming in iRacing; no squeal etc. I know ear-plugs and crash helmets would muffle it in RL, but externally it's not there either, just a whooshing noise. And you need all the help you can get in a sim to know what's going on. It'd would be a worth while compromise because without enough information, we end up driving less realistically because of it. It's like the transmission; you don't know what to do with it so it encourages unrealistic practices. Maybe informative tiren noise would reduce the feeling of sliding around all the time if you knew when it was actually meant to be happening. As it is, there are constant disputes about the very fact of who's doing it to be fast. I've no idea whatsoever when I'm sliding. That's crap, it must be. It'd also do massive amounts for immersion to have some decent sounds.

I might have mentioned sound before

...

AllanGP · 16 April 12, 14:26

Yes I might get to 55's with more practice;

http://members.iracing.com/membersit...4&custid=37971

Had a fun race (let's hope I did the 500 millionth lap

), forgot how much fun Skippy races can be even with a slightly wonky rear wheel;

http://members.iracing.com/membersit...9&custid=37971

Funnily enough I was just thinking how good the tyre sounds are to me and how helpful they are. I'm only using some cheap headphones but tyre noise sounds good to me.

waters10 · 16 April 12, 14:38

Shoot, I forgot about the 500 million lap deal ... Crazy weekend and I had no time to even drive a few laps. Plus I reinstalled new mobo/cpu yesterday and computer is still open. Is the deal today, till midnight GMT? Or was it yesterday and done?

I loved Zandvoort. I'm hoping that next season, when this track comes up again, I can hit 1.56 consistently and maybe even dip into 55s.

I'll start practicing Jefferson Reverse tonight.

AllanGP · 16 April 12, 15:12

Well it is on the day the 500 millionth lap gets driven could be today, yesterday or tomorrow, nobody (except iRacing) could know.

Hotsocks · 16 April 12, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanGP

Funnily enough I was just thinking how good the tyre sounds are to me and how helpful they are. I'm only using some cheap headphones but tyre noise sounds good to me.

I'm lost for words. If you can hear realistic tire squeal it must be added by your headphones or something. I give up.

AllanGP · 16 April 12, 18:04

Have you got FMOD on or off? Honestly the tyre sounds that I hear are pretty good and quite informative.

I've never fiddled with any of the settings it is just how they were when I installed iRacing, I never bothered with the FMOD stuff.

Here is a link to the headset I have (my second one as when the first was accidentally broken by my son I knew it was good and it was fairly cheap, in case you don't already know I'm Scottish!).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000P5VR1...hvptwo=&hvqmt=

Hotsocks · 16 April 12, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanGP

Have you got FMOD on or off? Honestly the tyre sounds that I hear are pretty good and quite informative.

I've never fiddled with any of the settings it is just how they were when I installed iRacing, I never bothered with the FMOD stuff.

Here is a link to the headset I have (my second one as when the first was accidentally broken by my son I knew it was good and it was fairly cheap, in case you don't already know I'm Scottish!).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000P5VR1...hvptwo=&hvqmt=

LOL.

No, doesn't matter whether it's my £150 Sennheisers, or the laptop speaker and youtube.

That said...
FMOD: Now I had it on, with tires turned up high relative to everything else. I remembered it made the engine sound marginally better. But I've just tried it off, and the tire noise is much more pronounced and indeed does have a bit of screech to it. Just a bit, it's still more whoosh than squeal and not the imersive sounds I want. But should definitely be more informative.

Thanks for that!

AllanGP · 16 April 12, 20:39

No worries, anyway I like loud Rock music so after 50 years my ears are probably shot at !!

waters10 · 17 April 12, 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalifen

Biggest challenge for me will be the turn 4/5 right hander, which is kind of like turn 1 at Suzuka, only tighter and with no run-off.

You're so right. Those turns remind me of T1 Suzuka. I used to lose a ton of time on that turn in Suzuka. At least here on Jefferson reverse, I didn't go off track that much.

Summit Point - Jefferson is so weird. I feel like I'm racing in one my local parks here. I could almost imagine kids playing around next the track!

Anyway, this seems like it'll be a handful for a whole race. No run-offs will make me go much slower come race time ... After 40 laps or so, got my PB down to 55.25, with optimals of 55.10. Never had PB so close to optimals.

AllanGP · 17 April 12, 10:59

Jeffereson Reverse is like driving in your back garden (well maybe not mine!);

http://members.iracing.com/membersit...8&custid=37971

You can see 53's are possible, not by me though

Kalifen · 17 April 12, 11:21

Best time I have seen so far is a 53.2, so there's a chance we will see high 52s. Funny, though, how big the differences are on such a short little track.

AllanGP · 17 April 12, 11:57

Well I was doing 55's and another guy was doing 54's which I thought was too quick. Along comes someone else and does 53's and suddenly you think, actually I must be able to go quicker. They guy that was doing 54's did 53's and I went from 55's to 54's, sometimes you just need someone else to show you what is possible and it makes you re-assess your own performance.

waters10 · 17 April 12, 12:25

The thing with this track is that the no run off area in any of the turns means I'll probably be slower in the race than in practice.

I watched a few replays to see where I could improve and I think I can get to high 54s. But that's where I think I'll settle. Will probably still do high 55s in the races though ... I want to check some of the race results later, to see what people are posting as far as race average.

AllanGP · 17 April 12, 15:46

Went a touch quicker;

http://members.iracing.com/membersit...8&custid=37971

Scalage · 17 April 12, 18:17

I don't know about you but I'm pretty much always slower in a race than in a practise?

14 April 12, 12:59	#121
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	That is why I've suggested we get Pit Strategy built into the set up file (as I keep forgetting to do this!). http://members.iracing.com/jforum/po...t/1664765.page Last edited by AllanGP; 14 April 12 at 13:32.

10 April 12, 18:02	#101
waters10 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canton, MI Age: 36	I'm not actively looking at ispeed while I'm driving. I'm playing on a 96" x 54" (110")projector screen, but windowed mode resized to only 96"x25". So I have more than the top half of my screen free. What I do is I put that extra info up there. I'm not looking at it the whole time, but for example I'm about to get to a turn. I'm looking at the track, searching for my braking point, then the apex, then track out. As I hit the track out, I glance at the ispeed window and see if I have a positive speed delta. If I do, that means I took that corner better than I had taken it in my best lap. It's just instant feedback. And honestly, it's not that much different than looking at one of the black boxes, or your speedometer. The part I mentioned that is bad for me, is that as I hit the braking point and slam on the brakes, I can see the moment the speed delta changes from green to red with my periferal vision. I'm not looking at it, but it's easily enough to notice a color change. And I caught myself sometimes waiting for that color change to let go of the brakes, which results me in braking too much. So that's something I need to address, by probably moving the window higher, out of my peripheral vision. As far as books, I've been meaning to get the going faster dvd, but I just can't find it anywhere to rent it. I might buy the book to read one of these days.

11 April 12, 00:16	#102
~~Jack B~~ Banned Join Date: May 2008 Age: 55	Skip Barber's Going Faster is well worth the purchase. I pick it up and read chapters over and over. It never gets old. The have so many awesome charts graphs, diagrams etc. Speed Secrets is good too, but order Going Faster on Amazon. Worth 10 times it's price, IMO.

11 April 12, 07:38	#104
Scalage Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Vlaardingen, Holland Age: 23	You're frustrated? Wait untill you see the replay of my first skip race! How do you edit a replay anyway? Mine is 115MB but it's the entire race.

11 April 12, 08:34	#105
Kalifen Join Date: Aug 2010	From memory: Move to the place you wish to start the replay, click the scissor icon, click/move the endpoint in the timeline, then save. You will then have saved a replay containing only the marked time. Your current replay will not be affected. Waters10: Not able to look at replays on this computer, but I can make a guess. With a SOF of that kind, the guy you raced probably wasn't the best/cleanest racer in the world. It may be that the line he took was his usual line, it may also be that he lost control/was afraid of losing control, or a number of other explanations. The thing is you can't always trust these drivers. If you have had the chance to observe him for a while, you may make a qualified guess if it is safe to go side by side or not, otherwise the advice is to be very careful. If you have sufficient control in the turn, try looking left a couple of times to see where he is and what he's up to. Particularly that would be a good idea before turning in. In this case it may very well be that he was opening up on the inside again, giving you a chance to wait a bit, turn in and get a good exit on his inside. Don't know without looking at the actual replay, though.

11 April 12, 18:21	#111
Scalage Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Vlaardingen, Holland Age: 23	These incidents only get me more eager to improve my laptimes so I can be ahead of this mess right at the start. As for real life, I've never raced but I do ride a motorcycle (which is bloody scary sometimes!) and I've been in the passenger seat quite a few times at Zandvoort in several cars. So I know the track and I'm not scared of g-forces anymore.

12 April 12, 11:27	#113
Scalage Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Vlaardingen, Holland Age: 23	You're right about raceplanet, but there is a slight problem. I don't have a lot of money and I don't have a driver's license for a car

12 April 12, 16:53	#115
Scalage Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Vlaardingen, Holland Age: 23	Don't worry, you'll get there eventually. You have the laptimes, now you just need the consistency. Over here it's quite the opposite, I'm pretty consistent but not that fast at all.

12 April 12, 22:12	#116
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	Got twenty laps in; http://members.iracing.com/membersit...5&custid=37971 a bit more to come I think, we will see.

14 April 12, 02:08	#118
waters10 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canton, MI Age: 36	Yeah, no advice will trully help me. It's just keep trying and getting better. One thing I'm hating this week, is how a lot of the races are not splitting! Seems like participation is quite low this week. Apparently not a lot of people own Zandvoort ... Regarding the tow, the car gets fixed, but it takes time. They jack up the front and then the back to fix it. I can't remember how long that takes. But you're right! At least I was able to get back to the race, still get ahead of a few guys and gain some SR.

14 April 12, 04:46	#119
waters10 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canton, MI Age: 36	Had my best race so far. 14 drivers, SOF 1382. Started P2 (guess a lot of people don't qualify!). Before the end of Lap 1, I fell to 5th. Had a good battle for 4th place that lasted a few laps. Got passed twice and passed twice, but then I lost control at the hairpin and he t-bone me ... Somehow my car didn't get too damage so I continued, but he had to pit. I felt so bad for the guy .... Specially cause I recognize his name now, from at least 3 other races. Remained on 4th until the last lap, where I lost focus and went off track, lost control again stupidly and got hit by 5th place. At least I didn't ruin his race and he gained my position. An ok race really, but better than what I was having before.

14 April 12, 13:36	#123
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	Resets when you leave the Pits or go to Grid.

14 April 12, 14:24	#125
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	Yes, exactly and have a 5 min warning if you are in a Practice session for the next race coming up, on by default with the ability to toggle off.

14 April 12, 14:54	#126
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	Into the 56's but 2.5 sec of the really fast guy's ; http://members.iracing.com/membersit...4&custid=37971

14 April 12, 20:42	#129
Scalage Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Vlaardingen, Holland Age: 23	But when I lock up it's sort of too late isn't it? The point is that it's hard to know by muscle memory how hard I can brake and that a harder, more progressive pedal will make sure I can nail it every single time (or at least not screw up every lap ).

14 April 12, 22:52	#131
darock Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North Carolina	In our iRacing, they've said in a couple of different places that they provide the tire squeel for a couple of different uses, and even mention the uses aren't exactly realistic. Honest for sure when it comes to identifying brake lockup...

15 April 12, 09:43	#132
Scalage Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Vlaardingen, Holland Age: 23	I know it's not ideal, but I simply don't have the money for a load cell so this is the best I can do. And maybe the progressivity will not help me but for sure the increased stifness will.

15 April 12, 17:23	#133
Gutshot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alaska Interior	Ive had the Nixim for a few months and I really like the feel for the price. Convinced me to order a load cell this week for my G25 pedals. More brake pedal resistance also makes it easier to be more accurate on heel/toe/blip downshifting braking. I use the tire squeal sound to help gauge my tire traction in tight turns, since iRacing cannot simulate lateral g forces. I am also sure braking is mostly muscle memory but with open wheel you certainly get to use your eyes and its not too hard. (When I trained in the real Skippy they had us do braking exercises the first day and told us to watch the front tires and to modulate (let up) on the pedal if a lockup was about to happen. It took me a while, and a flat spotted left front, before I could do it right. Under heavy braking, the wheels actually begin to turn more slowly than "correct" while still in full road contact and before starting to slide. This is before locking up and losing adhesion.) I believe that the Skip Barber book also mentions this. The F1 drivers seem to be really good at this. Sometimes its easier than others, especially if there is a tire logo on the inside of the tire for reference.

16 April 12, 08:57	#134
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	Low 56's now, might do a Skippy race later to try and get my $5 ; http://members.iracing.com/membersit...0&custid=37971

16 April 12, 14:26	#137
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	Yes I might get to 55's with more practice; http://members.iracing.com/membersit...4&custid=37971 Had a fun race (let's hope I did the 500 millionth lap ), forgot how much fun Skippy races can be even with a slightly wonky rear wheel; http://members.iracing.com/membersit...9&custid=37971 Funnily enough I was just thinking how good the tyre sounds are to me and how helpful they are. I'm only using some cheap headphones but tyre noise sounds good to me.

16 April 12, 14:38	#138
waters10 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canton, MI Age: 36	Shoot, I forgot about the 500 million lap deal ... Crazy weekend and I had no time to even drive a few laps. Plus I reinstalled new mobo/cpu yesterday and computer is still open. Is the deal today, till midnight GMT? Or was it yesterday and done? I loved Zandvoort. I'm hoping that next season, when this track comes up again, I can hit 1.56 consistently and maybe even dip into 55s. I'll start practicing Jefferson Reverse tonight.

16 April 12, 15:12	#139
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	Well it is on the day the 500 millionth lap gets driven could be today, yesterday or tomorrow, nobody (except iRacing) could know.

16 April 12, 18:04	#141
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	Have you got FMOD on or off? Honestly the tyre sounds that I hear are pretty good and quite informative. I've never fiddled with any of the settings it is just how they were when I installed iRacing, I never bothered with the FMOD stuff. Here is a link to the headset I have (my second one as when the first was accidentally broken by my son I knew it was good and it was fairly cheap, in case you don't already know I'm Scottish!). http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000P5VR1...hvptwo=&hvqmt=

16 April 12, 20:39	#143
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	No worries, anyway I like loud Rock music so after 50 years my ears are probably shot at !!

17 April 12, 10:59	#145
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	Jeffereson Reverse is like driving in your back garden (well maybe not mine!); http://members.iracing.com/membersit...8&custid=37971 You can see 53's are possible, not by me though

17 April 12, 11:21	#146
Kalifen Join Date: Aug 2010	Best time I have seen so far is a 53.2, so there's a chance we will see high 52s. Funny, though, how big the differences are on such a short little track.

17 April 12, 11:57	#147
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	Well I was doing 55's and another guy was doing 54's which I thought was too quick. Along comes someone else and does 53's and suddenly you think, actually I must be able to go quicker. They guy that was doing 54's did 53's and I went from 55's to 54's, sometimes you just need someone else to show you what is possible and it makes you re-assess your own performance.

17 April 12, 12:25	#148
waters10 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canton, MI Age: 36	The thing with this track is that the no run off area in any of the turns means I'll probably be slower in the race than in practice. I watched a few replays to see where I could improve and I think I can get to high 54s. But that's where I think I'll settle. Will probably still do high 55s in the races though ... I want to check some of the race results later, to see what people are posting as far as race average.

17 April 12, 15:46	#149
AllanGP Donated Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, 25 mins from Oulton Park Age: 51	Went a touch quicker; http://members.iracing.com/membersit...8&custid=37971

17 April 12, 18:17	#150
Scalage Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Vlaardingen, Holland Age: 23	I don't know about you but I'm pretty much always slower in a race than in a practise?