iRacing needs to step up and do their duty

[darock]

The whole world sees videos like this pretty much all the time.

That guy is merrily wrecking his way along, and iRacing's present system isn't doing spit. That guy isn't unique. There are hundreds of members who have shared nofault on top of nofault with innocent members until they got bored and wandered off.

That guy has racked up 355 INCs in his last 15 races. He piled up 57 INCs in the race in the video before quitting.

He's worked his road SR down to R-0.84 and his oval down to about the same. It looks like he hasn't sat out a day he wanted to 'race' since joining.

iRacing designed their Stewardship system, but that isn't the end of their responsibility. Their duty is to design one that works. They haven't done that at all.

Time they did something that works.

The membership has shared 355 INCs so far with that one guy. And there are plenty more of his type.

Videos like that on YouTube aren't going to convince the world iRacing is a sim. Members being allowed to run wild isn't going to keep other members. It really is time iRacing stepped up and did things that worked. The present system doesn't do a thing.

[brabham67]

Step up and do what?

That guy joined less than 2 weeks ago, probably on some sort of promotion, and is likely not to stick around. If all he is into is wrecking people, he'll get tired of it, or iRacing will ban him as long as some one takes the time to file a protest.

Instead of just saying things should change, why not suggest ways to make things better?

[Chronus]

Very sad. About a year ago, I said several times right here (and at the official forums as well) that there were too many wreckers. The response by several iRacers right here was to call me a "troll" for saying so.

I also said nothing was done against those individuals. More insults my way, sadly.

I remember when you posted some pics about a gang that used to wreak havoc and also line at the exit of pits and stop people from going to the track. Since then, how many of those individuals were banned?

Sadly, not enough.

Still, I hope some hard action will be taken against these individuals. Clearly, career, SR ratings, iRatings are not important for them.

[darock]

Originally Posted by brabham67

Step up and do what?

Put some backbone into their present design.

They are programmers. Use their computers to do what's needed.

It's obvious they need to have wreckers reported to NIM as he is their enforcer. So write an automated reporting system that tells NIM of situations that may suggest someone is a wrecker.

Do you think it might suggest a member is a wrecker when his SR has gone down to 0.84 in less than a month, for example. Think that a 57 INC count in one race might suggest a wrecker? How about INC counts of 57, 28, 40, and 45 in consecutive races?

You'd be surprised what a good programmer can program.

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by Chronus

Clearly, career, SR ratings, iRatings are not important for them.

The beauty of those rating systems is that it keeps those wreckers out of the higher license classes, mostly.

Wreckers bother me too, although I never saw them when I was racing. Maybe I was fortunate? who knows.

One thing in common with most of the "blatant wrecking" vids I see posted is that they are mostly from the rookie league races. If its in the higher series, it usually do to a driver loosing his cool.

It's online gaming, and they'll never be able to get rid of obnoxious players.

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by darock

Put some backbone into their present design.

They are programmers. Use their computers to do what's needed.

It's obvious they need to have wreckers reported to NIM as he is their enforcer. So write an automated reporting system that tells NIM of situations that may suggest someone is a wrecker.

Do you think it might suggest a member is a wrecker when his SR has gone down to 0.84 in less than a month, for example. Think that a 57 INC count in one race might suggest a wrecker? How about INC counts of 57, 28, 40, and 45 in consecutive races?

You'd be surprised what a good programmer can program.

Not a bad idea. They are upgrading the protest system to make it easier to file a protest. Hopefully that will help.

EDIT: I'm sure the name "Dick Piston" is a fake name, lol. you see that when iRacing runs a free trial promo. So far the best fake name I've seen was Watermellonandrea Friedchickenisha!

[Chronus]

I think the problem may not be the reporting system alone. Probably, that is the smallest part of it.

Problem is, imo, once they do get hold of videos/replays/pics proving what these people are doing, what do FIRST, or whatever authority is there, effect against them? With the amount and frequency of such events, many should have been banned by now, but in reality how many were?

[brabham67]

There has always been a call for some form of a blotter, where weekly or monthly stats are given about disciplinary actions dispensed. I'm all for that, as long as user names are not given.

Example: A driver was suspended for 1 week for wrecking(insert sporting code violated).

This would show the system "at work" to some degree.

[Chronus]

Originally Posted by brabham67

The beauty of those rating systems is that it keeps those wreckers out of the higher license classes, mostly.

[...]
One thing in common with most of the "blatant wrecking" vids I see posted is that they are mostly from the rookie league races. If its in the higher series, it usually do to a driver loosing his cool.

Yes, but...that may just send the wrong message to "casual" gamers who also happen to enjoy wrecking others. They might just think that they don't have to try THAT hard (i.e., climb the ladder) to have fun at the expense of others.

Also, a mix message to people who happen to really like simracing: we (iRacing) don't care about rookies or inexperienced people.

It's online gaming, and they'll never be able to get rid of obnoxious players.

True.

But at least software houses can give them an headache or two.

Finally, imo, a good solution would be, at the same time replays may be used as proof, they look at number of separate "wrecking events". Any iracer with a count of 3 should be banned. Permanently. Problem is, this means losing paying customers...lousy ones, by paying nonetheless.

[AllanGP]

I'm sure as part of the new protest system the sort of checks & balances Darock suggests can be done will be done. A little late but better late than never.

My experience of iRacings efforts are once they look to address an issue they do it quite well.

Of course with the membership size and the number of races run each week, combined with a minority of disgruntled customers, means we are bound to see video's like this now and more than likely in the future too.

[AllanGP]

Originally Posted by Chronus

Finally, imo, a good solution would be, at the same time replays may be used as proof, they look at number of separate "wrecking events". Any iracer with a count of 3 should be banned. Permanently. Problem is, this means losing paying customers...lousy ones, by paying nonetheless.

Don't know if you saw iRacings piece on using their CRM system to eliminate persistent offenders but the example you give is almost exactly like the one they did as an effect of using their CRM system to get rid of persistant offenders.

[darock]

Hopefully, in the future, iRacing will have improved their Stewardship to the point we will see fewer of those videos.

If they don't come up with something that works there's a good possibility it won't ever make it as a sim. They really do need a far better control than they presently have.

[darock]

Originally Posted by brabham67

Not a bad idea. They are upgrading the protest system to make it easier to file a protest. Hopefully that will help.

EDIT: I'm sure the name "Dick Piston" is a fake name, lol. you see that when iRacing runs a free trial promo. So far the best fake name I've seen was Watermellonandrea Friedchickenisha!

They've also mentioned an automated detail.

Unfortunately, they don't seem very active at the task, nor did they sound committed. Hopefully, those of us who really like the game enough to be aroused by abusers enough to speak out will raise enough outside interest they finally do respond.

Hopefully they will do more than improve filing protests. Humans really don't do that job with any enthusiasm no matter what it takes in spare time.

[Chronus]

Originally Posted by AllanGP

A little late but better late than never.

Indeed. As long as these individuals are dealt with, I think it is good progress. Some times, progress takes time, though.

Of course with the membership size and the number of races run each week, combined with a minority of disgruntled customers, means we are bound to see video's like this now and more than likely in the future too.

True...but I hope you're not right about this. A growing fanbase or customer base doesn't have to imply a higher probability of stumbling upon these wreckers. If the system works well, we'll be safe from these things.

Don't know if you saw iRacings piece on using their CRM system to eliminate persistent offenders but the example you give is almost exactly like the one they did as an effect of using their CRM system to get rid of persistant offenders.

I haven't seen it, unfortunately.

Some may feel getting rid of members over 3 or 4 offences is too harsh, but maybe that's for the better in the long run.

[Raikku]

Never saw any wrecker in iR. I think ppl overexaggerate greatly. But that's what ppl tend to do.

[AllanGP]

Originally Posted by Raikku

Never saw any wrecker in iR. I think ppl overexaggerate greatly. But that's what ppl tend to do.

A good point I have never actually seen any wreckers but unfortunately I am aware it happens.

You invariably hear the worst about any product by a vocal minority and not the fact that the vast majority are just having fun and enjoying it - membership is still building nicely, that wouldn't happen if wreckers were rife but it is an issue that does still need addressing.

[AllanGP]

Here is the article with the CRM bit in it;

http://www.iracing.com/inracingnews/...ystem-may-2012

[Chronus]

Originally Posted by AllanGP

You invariably hear the worst about any product by a vocal minority[...]

"A vocal minority"? Again this tired old argument?

Nothing changed...

Originally Posted by AllanGP

Here is the article with the CRM bit in it;

http://www.iracing.com/inracingnews/...ystem-may-2012

Thank you.

[Chronus]

"In 2010, for example, there were 1,945 protests filed and 3,541 filed in 2011. Those numbers only include accepted protests in which we created a “case.”"

If, out of 3510 accepted cases, we consider 5% of them as being caused by wreckers, that gives almost 180 cases. 5%, imo, is too low for what I have seen or read, but even so, that is too much. It either means a few people are free to roam around and cause wrecks with full impunity, or there are quite a few wreckers out there (if we consider they act "humanely", only performing their deeds once or twice a year).

Imo, nothing to be disregarded with a "ppl overexaggerate". [Btw, discussing is good, stirring the pot is not, I'd say.]

EDIT:

Finally, there's also something else to consider in regards to "wreckers".

There are those that get in, and they waste no time in wreaking havoc. Sometimes you hear them laughing their brains out with their ilk.

Then there are the others. I have seen several videos and replays sent to me by friends of people who have done the following:
- almost no incidents during a race. Then they spin out. For some reason, frustration or plain stupidity, they re-enter the track and don't lose any time in wrecking those that happened to be just a tad behind them.
- the guy spins out in the middle of a race. Then, bored, decides to go against the current, driving against other cars.
- a guy is passed. No contact. Just passed. In a rage, he follows the iracer that passed him and in the next corner or so, doesn't break, taking himself and the other guy (and possibly someone else) out of the race.
- a guy won a race. He waited until the very end and then wrecked the guy behind him.

There are similar cases, and many others.

During my "time" with iRacing, I have seen 3 or 4 wreckers and once a gang of them (in a V8 Supercar practice).

This pales in comparison to the number of incidents caused by people who simply cannot stand being passed or those that think others are just big piles of something-brown-and-smelly standing in their way to a win.

Is this particular to iRacing? No.

But iRacing is the one sim that prides itself of a sporting code (and justly so, I'd say) and an authority to enforce it (FIRST). With greater power (or possibilities), comes more responsibility.

Imo.

[darock]

Some of us only race once a week. Some a couple of times a week. Some race almost every day.

Some of us have decent iRatings and run top license series. Those series really aren't the target guys like the wrecker in the video shoot at.

Some of us have average iRatings and run more than once a day in whatever series suits the scheduling that's available when we get into the game.

It's human nature to think what you see is what the world is like. It often isn't what the general population sees. I greatly enjoy a D series. It's not real popular but I like the car and it was the first series out of rookie that had very clean races of the 3 or 4 series I started running. I still run a number of different series and it's still the cleanest.

I've encountered probably a wrecker every other month in all the series I run since getting out of Rookie over a year ago. A couple of weeks ago I was running my favorite car. While passing a slower car on the outside, it came up into my rear quarter panel on exit. The driver decided I'd wrecked him on purpose in spite of my having a half length on him going into the turn and a little more coming out. After repairs, he happened to exit his pit just ahead of me. He slammed on the brakes in the pit exit lane and backed up. That wasn't enough. A couple of laps later he lay back and turned into me as I came by on the straight. That wasn't enough. Two more deliberate shots pretty much the same way.

Turns out the guy's history is trash. A day after the protest I get a pm from him quoting my words from the protest. He starts trolling me in the forums trashing everything I say.

Do I think iRacing should step up to control the crowd better than they do?

This trash isn't the first who went way over the line that royally screwed something I greatly enjoy. He has combined the most into one encounter, but not by much.

There are a lot of people like me who enjoy the hell out of iRacing and appreciate the crap out of how kewl it is. But it suffers from a couple of problems and they need to be solved.

Sticking your head in the sand doesn't get it done. Being an apologist for every detail you take negatively does iRacing no favors. It's a bigger world than most of us see in our time there. But when we see warts that need to be removed, it is possible there really are warts that need to be removed and calling them removed before they have been is counter productive.

Damn right iRacing needs to step up. Step up the quality of their race stewardship first off.

[Domey]

I encountered a wrecker in May of 2011 and filed a protest. They had 3 more races that day and have been gone ever since. I think a far bigger problem than the wreckers, whom I've never encountered again, are those who don't file proper protests after being victimized. It's like the lottery, one must play to win. One must also protest for this system to work at it's optimum. Not all protests will result in bans but no protest ensures no punishment. We all have our duty to perform if we expect the system to work properly.

[darock]

Originally Posted by Domey

I encountered a wrecker in May of 2011 and filed a protest. They had 3 more races that day and have been gone ever since. I think a far bigger problem than the wreckers, whom I've never encountered again, are those who don't file proper protests after being victimized. It's like the lottery, one must play to win. One must also protest for this system to work at it's optimum. Not all protests will result in bans but no protest ensures no punishment. We all have our duty to perform if we expect the system to work properly.

And we've got 3 or 4 years of history that show how that has worked.

We've also got a number of videos on YouTube over the years.

We've also got 3 or 4 years of apologists saying the system won't work unless everyone protests. That hasn't made it work either, has it.

[Chronus]

Group A says: "never seen a wrecker".

Group B says: "only seen 1 or 2 but I admit there's a problem".

Group C says: "there may be wreckers, but people have to file protests to get rid of wreckers".

Fact is, there are wreckers.

Another fact, some people are not the classic "wreckers" (those that login, choose a session, drive and have fun by destroying other cars), but don't know how to properly race and, again and again, cause serious incidents in most sessions they enrol in.

So, those that think like Group C above believe that all this is due to lack of action on the part of the "victims".

I don't think that is the case.

[Kalifen]

Originally Posted by darock

Turns out the guy's history is trash. A day after the protest I get a pm from him quoting my words from the protest. He starts trolling me in the forums trashing everything I say.

Which is something that admittedly scares me from protesting. Not that there have been much to protest, but I did consider it a couple of times. Guess I have generally been rather lucky, cause I haven't seen much malicious driving. (EDIT: Stupid, yes, but not malicious - and quite often stupid can be spotted "a mile away")

Hopefully the automated system will help a lot. Limiting to X incs before being black flagged in a race will probably be quite helpful - and I assume happenings like that will rack up on that driver's account, so he can't go on creating havoc until incident X forever.


Btw, it also seems they are stricter now, after punishing that V8 gang after a practice. Also it is a good thing that they can "grade" the punishment, like blocking access to official races, but allow hosted for example. And remove forum rights.

[darock]

Originally Posted by Kalifen

Hopefully the automated system will help a lot. Limiting to X incs before being black flagged in a race will probably be quite helpful - and I assume happenings like that will rack up on that driver's account, so he can't go on creating havoc until incident X forever.


Btw, it also seems they are stricter now, after punishing that V8 gang after a practice. Also it is a good thing that they can "grade" the punishment, like blocking access to official races, but allow hosted for example. And remove forum rights.

Hopefully whatever they make of the automated system will help.

I hope they will actually flag whatever they choose to flag so that NIM sees who needs watching. Automatically black flagging may or may not save other members something, but the real savings will come when NIM gets notification of impending trash before those members turn into trash.

Good they worked out a punishment they will enforce. Hope they are stricter and stay that way.

The real value of a Steward comes when he corrects the direction some members take early on. Hope the system helps him do that.

[Domey]

Originally Posted by Chronus

Group A says: "never seen a wrecker".

Group B says: "only seen 1 or 2 but I admit there's a problem".

Group C says: "there may be wreckers, but people have to file protests to get rid of wreckers".

Fact is, there are wreckers.

Another fact, some people are not the classic "wreckers" (those that login, choose a session, drive and have fun by destroying other cars), but don't know how to properly race and, again and again, cause serious incidents in most sessions they enrol in.

So, those that think like Group C above believe that all this is due to lack of action on the part of the "victims".

I don't think that is the case.

Don't forget Group D says:"Wreckers wreck me, but I can't be bothered filing a protest because it won't do any good anyway."

[darock]

Originally Posted by Domey

Don't forget Group D says:"Wreckers wreck me, but I can't be bothered filing a protest because it won't do any good anyway."

And that's 4 groups of humans who DO NOT FILE PROTESTs. The system requires protests to work. It doesn't get them. It doesn't work. iRacing hasn't seemed to notice until now. That shows a real lack of understanding... interest... caring???

Want something that works or not?

Relying on humans to protest is a cop out. iRacing and FIRST are the ones who Sanction the racing and have provided what? a steward system that saves them time and effort and costs them practically nothing. While it does practically nothing.

Hopefully, their new effort isn't just hot air.

[Derek Speare]

Did anyone write Nim about the abusive member in the original post? If not, I'm curious as to why.

d

[HKanaya]

What if iRacing raised their monthly subscription price BUT let clean rookies take part in the Pay to Play program and increase the credits earned for higher license iRacers in the program. They can work the math so that with Pay to Play, their monthly/annual cost doesn't go up. They can also allow clean Rookie iRacers to participate, using some form of safety rating threshold of say 3.0? If you maintain a SR north of 3.5 for the 4 week season, you get credits to your account. This way, the wreckers end up paying the higher fee, have no chance of earning credits and will quickly realize there are better things to do with their money (or perhaps the higher fee will deter them from ever joining).

This could be a problem with iRacers that mostly participate in leagues and hosted sessions vs. the racing series.

I have not seen very many blatant wreckers (knock on wood) in the past 6 months or so, but HAVE seen many iRacers entering races in their first week, any in some cases their first day of membership. In these cases, it is not their intent to wreck, they just are not accustomed to the sim and spin or dive bomb corners or hit others from behind. Perhaps a requirement that new Rookies run a certain number of clean time trials before they enter their first race could help this? Let them run ghost sessions all they want so to whet their appetite, but make sure they can run semi-clean before getting on track in an official race.

Sorry this post transitioned midway through from wreckers to new comers, but as the title states, "just brainstorming."

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by HKanaya

What if iRacing raised their monthly subscription price BUT let clean rookies take part in the Pay to Play program and increase the credits earned for higher license iRacers in the program. They can work the math so that with Pay to Play, their monthly/annual cost doesn't go up. They can also allow clean Rookie iRacers to participate, using some form of safety rating threshold of say 3.0? If you maintain a SR north of 3.5 for the 4 week season, you get credits to your account. This way, the wreckers end up paying the higher fee, have no chance of earning credits and will quickly realize there are better things to do with their money (or perhaps the higher fee will deter them from ever joining).

This could be a problem with iRacers that mostly participate in leagues and hosted sessions vs. the racing series.

I have not seen very many blatant wreckers (knock on wood) in the past 6 months or so, but HAVE seen many iRacers entering races in their first week, any in some cases their first day of membership. In these cases, it is not their intent to wreck, they just are not accustomed to the sim and spin or dive bomb corners or hit others from behind. Perhaps a requirement that new Rookies run a certain number of clean time trials before they enter their first race could help this? Let them run ghost sessions all they want so to whet their appetite, but make sure they can run semi-clean before getting on track in an official race.

Sorry this post transitioned midway through from wreckers to new comers, but as the title states, "just brainstorming."

I wouldn't want to see iRacing raise it's subscription prices, imo. However, I would like to see them increase the minimum participation requirements to upgrade license levels, and maybe even remove the option to Fasttrack for rookies only.

As it is it's pretty easy to get an A license. Making it a bit harder to get would weed out most of the troublesome bunch in the beginning, and might make having a higher license something to cherish and maintain.

[AllanGP]

http://www.iracing.com/inracingnews/...a-guide-part-i

[darock]

Originally Posted by Derek Speare

Did anyone write Nim about the abusive member in the original post? If not, I'm curious as to why.

d

The guy who wrecked 5 or 6 people on one lap and racked up a huge INC count?

The video originally appeared in another forum and then over at iRacing. Since the thread with the video @ iRacing was recently removed, one would guess that Nim was notified at least about the video.

What he's going to do about the original wrecker is anybody's guess.

[Chronus]

What he's going to do about the original wrecker is anybody's guess.

Aren't we then back to what some of us have asked?

Is the current system THE problem, or rather the absence of any action taken against these individuals? Other than the V8 gang, which gained gigantic notoriety and thus forced them to action, how many actions have been taken against these individuals? How many have been banned?

I know they received enough reports to ban idiots. People have taken the time to report these events. But, results?

[vondutch51]

Part of the problem is that people expect a business to police it's customers. If you step back and think about it logically very few people will ever get banned or serious infractions due to the fact that those who are causing trouble are subscribers just like everyone else, and iRacing seem loathe to take any serious action against them as it will cost iRacing for doing so. Short sighted? Yes but like any endevour that tries to please everyone and not offend anyone things like this happen. Perhaps if enough subscribers voiced their displeasure with iRacing's self policing efforts, they would implement a more effective system. Until then I imagine it'll be more of the status quo.

[Chronus]

Originally Posted by vondutch51

Part of the problem is that people expect a business to police it's customers. If you step back and think about it logically very few people will ever get banned or serious infractions due to the fact that those who are causing trouble are subscribers just like everyone else, and iRacing seem loathe to take any serious action against them as it will cost iRacing for doing so. Short sighted? Yes but like any endevour that tries to please everyone and not offend anyone things like this happen. Perhaps if enough subscribers voiced their displeasure with iRacing's self policing efforts, they would implement a more effective system. Until then I imagine it'll be more of the status quo.

Bingo.

[AllanGP]

Originally Posted by vondutch51

Part of the problem is that people expect a business to police it's customers. If you step back and think about it logically very few people will ever get banned or serious infractions due to the fact that those who are causing trouble are subscribers just like everyone else, and iRacing seem loathe to take any serious action against them as it will cost iRacing for doing so. Short sighted? Yes but like any endevour that tries to please everyone and not offend anyone things like this happen. Perhaps if enough subscribers voiced their displeasure with iRacing's self policing efforts, they would implement a more effective system. Until then I imagine it'll be more of the status quo.

True but since I don't see this issue as rife, and reading the Forum's not every topic is on this I think when you have limited resources you will have to be careful where you deploy them.

They have already announced they are working on a better system, from my experience, that is sufficient in relation to any problems, when you compare that to all the things we would like to see being worked upon.

[Chronus]

That does not seem to be the case. As vondutch pointed out, it MAY BE, as I also suspect, a matter of "business" management. Some will ask themselves, "what do we stand to gain by banning serious, repetitive infractors? Not much."

It is also probable they misrepresent the problem or pretend it does not exist, or simply look at the numbers and decide that two or three hundred malicious idiots are not THAT big of a problem in a universe of almost 30 000 paying customers.

Then, if they follow that line of thought, they also take advantage of the "Spreading Of The gospel according to Vicarious hyper-fans" who try to convince the blind that they haven't seen a wrecker EVER.

Anyway, a good sim, a good enough system, an excellent service, but still a business. Policing its customers and enforcing the rules might just not be that simple as it seems.

And then...

Then there is also this:

when you compare that to all the things we would like to see being worked upon.

They might not have the resources to implement a new system and better policing its customers. On top of that, there is a multitude of things we all also want to see in iRacing - and sometimes, for many people, ASAP.

[brabham67]

The changes iRacing are making to the protest system should make it easier to file a protest. That was the number one complaint about the protest system. It takes too much work!!

Maybe that was their intent. Make it a difficult proposition to file a clearly outlined protest, and that might weed out a few of the heat of the moment ZOMG THAT GUY WRECKED ME ON PURPOSE!!, when it was most likely a racing incident.

The problem is that it is just that difficulty that keeps most people away from using the protest system. Saving a replay, finding the appropriate portion of the SC that the player violated, ect.. Maybe the changes will help, only time will tell.

In the end it really does come down to money. A subscriber, even one that has no skill or doesn't intend on playing fairly, is money in the hand.

[darock]

Originally Posted by brabham67

In the end it really does come down to money. A subscriber, even one that has no skill or doesn't intend on playing fairly, is money in the hand.

Money in hand? As are all the subscribers.

So how much money does that wrecker promise iRacing?

He is a brand new subscriber. He signed up most probably on a promotional deal. iRacing really hasn't made anything on the dude so far. He has purchased not one car and very probably not a single track.

What do you figure he's going to spend now that he's gained his 15 minutes of fame? More importantly, what does iRacing figure he's going to spend.

Look at his value to iRacing from iRacing's perspective. He's produced some really awesomely valuable advertising that showcases iRacing AND Cadillac. I'm sure Cadillac is pleased with it, and tickled pink it's getting lots of internet coverage.

On the chance that iRacing cares about the wrecker's impact on the membership, there is a probability they consider if that crap keeps up it could run off members who might have purchased tracks and cars and kept up a decent number of subscriptions over time. They are who turn a profit for iRacing, aren't they.

Business decision? I hope to heaven that wrecker's future is just that. And iRacing considers it as such.

So far, the wrecker hasn't run again since his video made the bigtime. Something to ponder..........

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by darock

Money in hand? As are all the subscribers.

So how much money does that wrecker promise iRacing?

He is a brand new subscriber. He signed up most probably on a promotional deal. iRacing really hasn't made anything on the dude so far. He has purchased not one car and very probably not a single track.

What do you figure he's going to spend now that he's gained his 15 minutes of fame? More importantly, what does iRacing figure he's going to spend.

Look at his value to iRacing from iRacing's perspective. He's produced some really awesomely valuable advertising that showcases iRacing AND Cadillac. I'm sure Cadillac is pleased with it, and tickled pink it's getting lots of internet coverage.

On the chance that iRacing cares about the wrecker's impact on the membership, there is a probability they consider if that crap keeps up it could run off members who might have purchased tracks and cars and kept up a decent number of subscriptions over time. They are who turn a profit for iRacing, aren't they.

Business decision? I hope to heaven that wrecker's future is just that. And iRacing considers it as such.

So far, the wrecker hasn't run again since his video made the bigtime. Something to ponder..........

Well put.

[wpsracing78]

I certainly saw these kind of videos before I bought it - and it didn't bother me at all.

and the people you want in iRacing are people like me... if I don't say so myself - as soon as I got a wheel I got iRacing almost the same day - I didn't even make a decision, I had bought it before I made my mind up - and I go in there to race because I love it, and motorsport is my life! I can avoid morons, and if I get hit by a moron, I go, "Are you serious dude!?!????" on chat, then quit, fume in my house for 30 mins - then stop caring

besides, if you are in a race with someone like that, it's your fault for being in a low classed, unsplit race - or for not qualifying, or for not identifying him as a risk.

I don't want thousands and thousands of members who are in there after they budgeted and "decided to try it" or whatever - at that point, in my mind, you don't want it and I don't want to race you because you mightn't take your racing seriously as me.

[darock]

Originally Posted by wpsracing78

besides, if you are in a race with someone like that, it's your fault for being in a low classed, unsplit race - or for not qualifying, or for not identifying him as a risk.

Being in a bottom split race would be your punishment if all races split. A lot of iRacing's diverse series don't turn out car counts large enough to split.

The OP really wasn't about the talent you find at the back of the grid. It's worth talking about, but the OP was about the inability iRacing seems to show at stopping the blatant wreckers.

Did you notice how DPiston overtook and wrecked another member every turn? It really isn't hard to identify someone who isn't braking for the turns, who is in fact cutting them enough he's getting the, "they say you cut the turn. Slow down and...." warning as he merrily slams his way into car after car.

iRacing really does need something that identifies members who for whatever reason have gone off and are ruining other members races.

[Chronus]

Originally Posted by darock

Did you notice how DPiston overtook and wrecked another member every turn? It really isn't hard to identify someone who isn't braking for the turns, who is in fact cutting them enough he's getting the, "they say you cut the turn. Slow down and...." warning as he merrily slams his way into car after car.

iRacing really does need something that identifies members who for whatever reason have gone off and are ruining other members races.

Business matters aside...

Allan referred us to an article explaining the (new) system. Quite interesting read.

If someone wanted to take it even further...via, say, a very special trigger: if a member "collects" more than X incs in a fixed amount of time (say a week), then that member could be suspended from active racing.

If that member went on to practices and still collected more than a "normal" amount of incs, then that member should be suspended from races AND practices. He would be left with TTs and private tests.

Easy to understand the reasoning. How many incs do we collect when we are in foul mood, in a terribly bad week? Say that under those circumstances we collected 80 incs during the course of the week. Say that iRacing analyses the statistics and averages out 70 incs per week. Anyone with anything above, say, 100 incs is not there to race or practice. It must be there to wreck others. That someone could easily kicked out.

And the same goes for what I believe is the serious problem:
1- those that race with complete disregard towards others
2- those that, due to lack of talent or experience, are however allowed to race with others who are much faster then they are. This, from what I have seen and from videos posted at Youtube and elsewhere, is cause for much frustration for a lot of rookies and/or untalented drivers.

Imo.

[darock]

Members like that do have quite a demoralizing effect on other members.

iRacing would have to put some thought into whatever they do and some study on how it works when implemented.

They may even have to change some of their present attitudes, especially the conflicting ones. For example, they basically ignore the SR in official Practice sessions. There are many hundreds of members who rack up 50-100 INCs each Practice sessions. It's somewhat confusing to new members who encounter wreckfests in those sessions. Most of them are probably Rookies whose iRating is hidden from them for unknown reasons. SR is sacred yet ignored sometimes, while iRating must not mean anything yet is hugely important for a couple of things. Amazing...

No wonder members have a hard time figuring out the system when they're new to it.

[DurgeDriven]

Observation.


iRacing fast guy I know says your nothing but a bunch of whiners.


Seems the majority are mature enough to take the good with the bad and get on with life.

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by DurgeDriven

Observation.


iRacing fast guy I know says your nothing but a bunch of whiners.


Seems the majority are mature enough to take the good with the bad and get on with life.

Retort.

Not surprising your "Fast iRacing Friend" would say something like that. iRacing forums are 2nd only to 4chan for trolling.

No body is whining here. Just voicing concerns over the quality of iRaicngs service.

[darock]

Concerns and considerations for improvement.

Interest in improving something good to make it better really isn't whining. Those fast guys sound like a flock of sheep. Take what they're given. Keep quiet and be glad nobody asks them to spell out any big words. Good thing they got a spokesman. And one with a really mature super hero icon.

[darock]

Originally Posted by vondutch51

Part of the problem is that people expect a business to police it's customers. If you step back and think about it logically very few people will ever get banned or serious infractions due to the fact that those who are causing trouble are subscribers just like everyone else, and iRacing seem loathe to take any serious action against them as it will cost iRacing for doing so. Short sighted? Yes

Businesses policing customers? You are absolutely right.

Ever shop lifted? Just about every store I was in today had video cameras. A month ago one evening I watched WalMart security take a runner down in the parking lot and "hold" him for the police. They REALLY held that dude good. A few weeks ago a convenience store owner shot a "customer" who said he was going to kill the owner.

Actually, a lot of businesses police customers quite a lot.

[Chronus]

Retort.

Not surprising your "Fast iRacing Friend" would say something like that. iRacing forums are 2nd only to 4chan for trolling.

No body is whining here. Just voicing concerns over the quality of iRaicngs service.

Agreed.

Funny thing is - using an "intermediary" to post that unwarranted nonsense? Remote-lings and intermediary-lings with a common interest: trolling an interesting discussion.

Strange urges from the badly driven...

[vondutch51]

Originally Posted by darock

Businesses policing customers? You are absolutely right.

Ever shop lifted? Just about every store I was in today had video cameras. A month ago one evening I watched WalMart security take a runner down in the parking lot and "hold" him for the police. They REALLY held that dude good. A few weeks ago a convenience store owner shot a "customer" who said he was going to kill the owner.

Actually, a lot of businesses police customers quite a lot.

Not trying to be pedantic but your in your example those aren't customers. They are criminals trying to steal from or rob a business. Not the same. Most businesses are not going to be too keen on punishing or penalizing a paying customer that is disregarding the businesses rules. They will make allowances. They are going to try and be as lenient as they can, or let the situation go on for as long as possible, until it costs them more money to not take action than it does to do so. Not ripping iRacing just stating the rather obvious (to me at least). If I were in their shoes I would do the same thing.