Nürburgring bankrupt

gears · 17 July 12, 00:05

Quote:

The world-famous Nurburgring must therefore be sold in part or in full

http://www.rhein-zeitung.de/regional...id,453923.html

Quote:

European Union denied allowing the state of Rhineland-Palatinate giving financial aid to the crisis-shaken circuit located in the German Eifel region. Bankruptcy is thus almost unavoidable, meaning that the legendary 22.810 meters of tarmac known as the Nordschleife will probably be sold just like it’s brethren known as the Nürburgring circuit.

The owner of the track, the Nürburgring GmbH which is subsequently owned by the state of Rhineland-Palatinate, would need more than 10 million Euros to survive but because of the EU decision it’s not allowed to receive any funds from it’s owner nor is the state allowed to defer any credits the state had previously given, through state owned banks, to the Nürburgring GmbH.

http://www.racedepartment.com/2012/07/ring-bankruptcy/

So-Cal-Racing · 17 July 12, 00:14

Why doesn't Audi's Dr. Wolfgang Ullrich buy it ?

He's a multimillionaire

brabham67 · 17 July 12, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by So-Cal-Racing

Why doesn't Audi's Dr. Wolfgang Ullrich buy it ?

He's a multimillionaire

He got that way by not throwing money around.

Besides, it would take way more than 10 mil to buy the place. 10 mil is what they are short on their annual budget.

Tkrau · 17 July 12, 00:50

Oh man, that sucks! Talk about a catch 22...the people most likely to try to help, can't.

pitradio · 17 July 12, 00:55

I'm afraid this is the end of the Schleife. It's too expensive in these times. Impossible to make F1 races because of the cost of Bernie, not enough income from track days etc to pay the taxes and maintenance..

It wouldn't be too unexpected to see the site changing into a luxury housing development site for those who want to 'feel' the place where formerly the Nordschleife was..

trotter2k · 17 July 12, 00:58

the EU sucks along with the Euro, we should be saving these tracks that have a deep History to them.............RedBull should buy it, they got the A1 Ring.

Tkrau · 17 July 12, 04:41

I can't help but think that SOMEONE will step up and purchase it...there's too much motorsports history there to let it be turned into another overpriced neighborhood.

wpsracing78 · 17 July 12, 05:08

10 million??

SURELY that can be raised!!

FailbotIsFail · 17 July 12, 06:17

The track should be designated as a historic landmark and "preserved" in working condition as such. Seriously, if the Nordschleife was sold off piecemeal or otherwise liquidated it would be a massive cultural loss.

-=Prodrive=- · 17 July 12, 07:26

They effectively destroyed the Osterreichring (my other favorite circuit), so it wouldn't surprise me if the 'Ring was destroyed and turned into houses or something too.

LeSunTzu · 17 July 12, 08:59

It is rather funny to see that the Ring might be another casualty of the German way to handle public money.

pitradio · 17 July 12, 10:00

I think the EU should look at Spanish and British football teams with enormous debts. In general it's all pretty much fine in Germany. All football teams there are not allowed to be in debt, while Real Madrid are like €500 million in debt, same goes for Barcelona, United and Chelsea.

And this is just 10 million. Why are football teams allowed to receive support from the state? Why a beautiful race track isn't?

People are saying that selling the squad would make some teams fully lose their debt. But it's not a guarantee.. Messi can get an injury making him worth €1. Same goes for all other players.
Or when interest in football collapses there's no reason the player would still be worth that much. Especially there's no reason why players earn this much money like €100,000 per week.. It's ridiculous.

dodo3000 · 17 July 12, 10:19

Yes, but der Goverment of germany isn't realy intrested at the Ring, only the GOverment of Rhineland-Palatinate is intrested. The German way to hanlde public Money isn't comprehensible, because no money is spend to Buildings, Race Circuit etc., but we send a incomprehensible sum to greece.

pitradio · 17 July 12, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodo3000

Yes, but der Goverment of germany isn't realy intrested at the Ring, only the GOverment of Rhineland-Palatinate is intrested. The German way to hanlde public Money isn't comprehensible, because no money is spend to Buildings, Race Circuit etc., but we send a incomprehensible sum to greece.

Don't forget Spain which will 'give' the sum of money to their football teams so the unpaid tax bills from these football teams are being 'paid' by the Germans, French, Finnish and Dutch.

dodo3000 · 17 July 12, 12:00

It looks like that there will be no 24h Race in 2013......

spin_doctor · 17 July 12, 12:14

According to at least one comment on the Racedepartment post:
__________________________________________________ _______________
Martin Bird · Nürburg
This is entirely untrue, the translation from the German is incorrect. The Nurburgring circuits are owned by the government and are currently leased to a private company for them to operate. The private company are in the process of removing themselves from the contract.
There is some uncertainty as to who will operate the tracks in the future, it may be that the government will operate it directly again, as happened in the past.
There is no serious threat, just a lot of politics. The media really need to stop reporting what they think is happening and just see the track opening as usual. If there is any damage being done at the moment it seems it's mostly the media causing it.
__________________________________________________ _______________

The state is the owner of the properties and leases rights to a private company. There are investigations going on into whether the company leasing the tracks and fairground has managed it correctly or has essentially looted the franchise.
Whatever the legal findings of the investigations may be there is a huge debt to be settled. It seems unlikely that the track as a whole would be sold or broken up since the principle debt holder is actually the state.

dodo3000 · 17 July 12, 12:46

The Ring is now managed by an insolvency and there is big problems with contracts (F1,ADAC etc.).
Be sure I can understand this text, I'm from germany

skiffle · 17 July 12, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodo3000

Yes, but der Goverment of germany isn't realy intrested at the Ring, only the GOverment of Rhineland-Palatinate is intrested. The German way to hanlde public Money isn't comprehensible, because no money is spend to Buildings, Race Circuit etc., but we send a incomprehensible sum to greece.

It should be noted, though, that a large chunk of that state aid will be going straight back to the German armaments industry, as the Greek military is almost entirely equipped with German (and French) equipment.
Incidentally, the one area that Greece has been told it cannot make any cutbacks in spending in is the defence sector - so Germany's loans are being indirectly used to support its own manufacturing sector via the Greek government.

shadow explorer · 17 July 12, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiffle

It should be noted, though, that a large chunk of that state aid will be going straight back to the German armaments industry, as the Greek military is almost entirely equipped with German (and French) equipment.
Incidentally, the one area that Greece has been told it cannot make any cutbacks in spending in is the defence sector - so Germany's loans are being indirectly used to support its own manufacturing sector via the Greek government.

I completely agree with you skiffle.but it is definitely not "aid".
Most of the money given to Greece,other than what you described,wich is 100% correct, are going to be used for earlier debts
So they just transfer money from one pocket to the other and seek for interest as well.

With that said,I hope the ring will continue to operate normally,as it is such an iconic circuit.

kennyken · 17 July 12, 17:10

Not to mention a popular testing ground manufacturers. How much is that rollercoaster they got worth, maybe sell that to someone.

Not Available · 18 July 12, 02:02

I saw the same article pop up on my work FB feed since I competed in a F1-related high school competition. (Post was in German though...)
I just don't want it to go. It's one of those few tracks with a long track config that is just challenging. (I still haven't completed a lap without wrecking a few times)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyken

Not to mention a popular testing ground manufacturers. How much is that rollercoaster they got worth, maybe sell that to someone.

First thing to come to mind is the BMW M series..

jostheboss · 18 July 12, 09:57

Nurburgring GMBH bankrupt !

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...-11823964.html

Raikku · 18 July 12, 10:12

Those sums would be childs play to some billionaire. There are plenty of them in the world, so now we just have to show this problem to someone who can solve it.

xanaxkamikaze · 18 July 12, 10:20

Screw football ; save The Ring

mrpowcz · 18 July 12, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by xanaxkamikaze

Screw football ; save The Ring

xanaxkamikaze · 18 July 12, 10:57

Chains of Debt are the new way of enslaving all of us. Chains of Iron were the visible form of enslavement. Now we have debt to give us the invisible prison of invisible money that mostly only exist as an entry on a computer file.

$ = Suffering

They come to take your circus away (The Ring), then your home, then your children, then they have it all...

All these money problems are largely fictional (exist on a computer, you need faith to believe in debt). The Ring is real (in the flesh, you can see it to believe it)

Ball and Chain economics - the invisible prison

Now go ahead and sue me for "being off topic"

mrpowcz · 18 July 12, 11:39

I don't think its offtopic, however it doesnt really matter if the money are "real" paper ones or a bunch of 1s and 0s on some server, its money with the same value.. in the form of 1s and 0s it saves more money because you dont have to print them..

What really bothers me that I read that there isn't really any financial crisis, at least not comparable to 1920s, that the western world enslaves itself by thinking there is crisis which in turn does create real crisis because people and markets dont trust each other

Raikku · 18 July 12, 13:56

It's quite obvious that EU and its financially strong countries should stop wasting their money to backup countries who had caused their problems by themselves, and give that money to more important projects instead, like this case.

Tkrau · 18 July 12, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by xanaxkamikaze

screw football ; save the ring

Word!!!

webfoot · 18 July 12, 19:55

This must be a candidate for World Heritage Site. I wonder how people go about getting such status for places of historic importance?

aspirin · 18 July 12, 23:06

I remember a thread about plans for a copy of the Nordschleife in the United States. In this thread, I stated that the Nürburgring GmbH will need nobody to destroy the Ring, because they will do it by themselves. I have to admit, they were faster than I expected.

One word about German money, sent to Greece: Yes German money goes to Greece, only to be returned to five gloabal banks, one of them Deutsche Bank or the German industry. Neither the German nor the Greek people will see one single cent.

Cheers, rainer

LeSunTzu · 18 July 12, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by webfoot

This must be a candidate for World Heritage Site. I wonder how people go about getting such status for places of historic importance?

It takes several years. Being a historic place for a sport is not sufficient to get it, you must show that it has had a social or political importance beyond sports. It would not "save it" for motorsports.

pepa1 · 19 July 12, 08:31

Some other source of information about the Ring bankruptcy:

http://mikefrison.com/1666

MadNitroBooster · 19 July 12, 14:56

Tkrau · 19 July 12, 19:16

Jeez...what a mess. I knew before this thread that the Ring was in some financial difficulty, but had no idea it was/is THAT convoluted.

mrpowcz · 20 July 12, 23:10

gears · 20 July 12, 23:31

I've been thinking about some "historic" stadiums in the US that have been saved by corporate sponsorship.

How would you guys feel about "The Quicken Loans Nordschleife" or "The Nordschleife, Presented by Tostitos"?

mrpowcz · 21 July 12, 00:25

Sure why not, but currently the debt is 420M euro or 520M $. Thats some serious money. Hard to say why anyone would be interested
I think that turning a stadium into profit from debts is easier than large racing track.

pitradio · 21 July 12, 01:22

Indeed. In stadiums you can host concerts, they need not as much maintenance. Nordschleife = asphalt + guardrails + vegetation etc etc

You can make a stadium interesting for specific audiences. It's harder to do this to a racetrack. They have Rock am Ring but I don't see how such an event can save a whole racetrack..

gears · 21 July 12, 01:59

No you don't understand. It isn't about the profitability, it's about the exposure. These stadiums were not making money either and/or needed major renovations. But they hosted a Major League Baseball or Football team that had lots of TV coverage.

Corporate sponsors make billion dollar deals to have their names on the stadiums for a given number of years. Not just on the Stadium, but in the name of the stadium. That money keeps the stadium going and/or gives them the money to make necessary renovations.

In some cases, the sponsors build those teams entire new stadiums in exchange for the corporate brand in the name of the stadium. Like Heinz Field (Heinz Ketchup Company), the Pittsburgh Steelers stadium.

Do you think the Grand Am series could survive without "Rolex" in the title? I wonder?

markspeed · 21 July 12, 02:11

Why don't the three major German auto manufacturers VAG, Mercedes and BMW pool some cash together and own it as there personal test track. Each of these companies spends more than 10 million dollars are year that is just thrown at adds which don't translate to car sales. And by that I mean there's 10 million dollars spent by each out of the total of their ads budget that is not represented in sales numbers I suspect. Their profits may sure exceed their ad budget, but not all of their ad budget accounts for sales. Take a portion of that, and own the Ring.

Then they can test their all they want and when they want. They can recoup some of the cost with track days and promotional events. And they can except the loss of the rest, cause their already losing it. It's 10 million a year right? Chump change for the number 2 auto maker in the world VAG, that last I read on them. They could do this on their own, but it should be all three. Teamwork on this sort of thing would be politically smart I think.

mrpowcz · 21 July 12, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by gears

No you don't understand. It isn't about the profitability, it's about the exposure. These stadiums were not making money either and/or needed major renovations. But they hosted a Major League Baseball or Football team that had lots of TV coverage.

Corporate sponsors make billion dollar deals to have their names on the stadiums for a given number of years. Not just on the Stadium, but in the name of the stadium. That money keeps the stadium going and/or gives them the money to make necessary renovations.

In some cases, the sponsors build those teams entire new stadiums in exchange for the corporate brand in the name of the stadium. Like Heinz Field (Heinz Ketchup Company), the Pittsburgh Steelers stadium.

Do you think the Grand Am series could survive without "Rolex" in the title? I wonder?

And that is exactly the problem. International series can't take place at nordschleife because there's no way to make the track comply international safety blabla, except few more billion euro. Only some german series with german coverage like VLN can take place there. Which wouldn't be enough imo.
I'm no economist (yet) but that's what I read. Looks real bad.

LeSunTzu · 21 July 12, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by markspeed

Why don't the three major German auto manufacturers VAG, Mercedes and BMW pool some cash together and own it as there personal test track. Each of these companies spends more than 10 million dollars are year that is just thrown at adds which don't translate to car sales. And by that I mean there's 10 million dollars spent by each out of the total of their ads budget that is not represented in sales numbers I suspect. Their profits may sure exceed their ad budget, but not all of their ad budget accounts for sales. Take a portion of that, and own the Ring.

Then they can test their all they want and when they want. They can recoup some of the cost with track days and promotional events. And they can except the loss of the rest, cause their already losing it. It's 10 million a year right? Chump change for the number 2 auto maker in the world VAG, that last I read on them. They could do this on their own, but it should be all three. Teamwork on this sort of thing would be politically smart I think.

You are naive about the policy of the automotive industry in general and the German one in particular. They are only driven by profit. They will move their ads to another race tracks and call it a day. They will make sure that they are very visible in the museum that will sooner or later open there, if the old fahrerlager is not destroyed. A few of their fat cats will be annoyed for a moment that the old Schleife is not there anymore to impress a young and charming associate from day to day in their big powerful car. They will find other ways to satisfy their midlife fantasies and forget about the place.

mrpowcz · 21 July 12, 15:45

Yeah. If there's high chance they would lose 1% of their money, they won't try to save it.

mrpowcz · 21 July 12, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by gears

No you don't understand. It isn't about the profitability, it's about the exposure.
...

Btw I'm not sure what you mean by "exposure". It's always about profitability. Nobody says it has to make profit since day 1.
If they knew it could turn into profit in 2030 they would invest - but even that's not certain.

DurgeDriven · 21 July 12, 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by webfoot

This must be a candidate for World Heritage Site. I wonder how people go about getting such status for places of historic importance?

Does not meet any of the criteria unfortunately.

Why can't they turn some parcels of land into prestige housing and build tunnels and bridges for access into these areas.

Got to make more money then track day ever would.

Petrolmania · 21 July 12, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DurgeDriven

Does not meet any of the criteria unfortunately.

Why can't they turn some parcels of land into prestige housing and build tunnels and bridges for access into these areas.

Got to make more money then track day ever would.

The home owners would then complain about the noise like idiots who move next to airports, etc and have it closed down permanently.

Den.

pitradio · 22 July 12, 01:07

I guess I have to make a lap this or next month just to be sure to have driven there once.. Afaik the touristenfahrten are going through as that's a way to make a bit of money at the moment and that's just good for its value..

DurgeDriven · 22 July 12, 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petrolmania

The home owners would then complain about the noise like idiots who move next to airports, etc and have it closed down permanently.

Den.

I am only talking about being able to retain it for the 24Hour race, the rest would have to go.

The buyers would have to be motor-sports fans for the 24hr, stipulate it in their contracts.

You build a community you need more police for the track ( revenue :p ) schools, hospitals, shopping malls, entertainment which would boost employment in area.

Throw in a world class resort and golf course and you get to keep your race.

Kupiter Belt · 22 July 12, 05:19

I'm sure I read somewhere that the track-days were actually losing them money because of the amount they were having to spend on maintenance and marshaling now that every man and his dog go there to hoon around it and buy a decal to stick on their car like a badge of honour.

The sad truth is that the track is a relic of a bygone era; it's not "safe" enough to race on by modern standards and would cost too much to alter and is probably too long to ever host many tv-format races, so there's not many ways of actually turning a profit.

I suspect it will fall into disrepair until a developer buys it and turns it into a shopping centre or housing estate. It won't be the first track this has ever happened to, France is pretty much littered with them, it's just the most famous.

17 July 12, 06:17	#9
FailbotIsFail Join Date: Mar 2010	The track should be designated as a historic landmark and "preserved" in working condition as such. Seriously, if the Nordschleife was sold off piecemeal or otherwise liquidated it would be a massive cultural loss. Last edited by FailbotIsFail; 17 July 12 at 06:18. Reason: spelling

17 July 12, 12:14	#16
spin_doctor Join Date: Dec 2005	The situation may not be so black and white. According to at least one comment on the Racedepartment post: __________________________________________________ _______________ Martin Bird · Nürburg This is entirely untrue, the translation from the German is incorrect. The Nurburgring circuits are owned by the government and are currently leased to a private company for them to operate. The private company are in the process of removing themselves from the contract. There is some uncertainty as to who will operate the tracks in the future, it may be that the government will operate it directly again, as happened in the past. There is no serious threat, just a lot of politics. The media really need to stop reporting what they think is happening and just see the track opening as usual. If there is any damage being done at the moment it seems it's mostly the media causing it. __________________________________________________ _______________ The state is the owner of the properties and leases rights to a private company. There are investigations going on into whether the company leasing the tracks and fairground has managed it correctly or has essentially looted the franchise. Whatever the legal findings of the investigations may be there is a huge debt to be settled. It seems unlikely that the track as a whole would be sold or broken up since the principle debt holder is actually the state. Last edited by spin_doctor; 17 July 12 at 12:44.

22 July 12, 05:19	#50
Kupiter Belt Uploader Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom Age: 26	I'm sure I read somewhere that the track-days were actually losing them money because of the amount they were having to spend on maintenance and marshaling now that every man and his dog go there to hoon around it and buy a decal to stick on their car like a badge of honour. The sad truth is that the track is a relic of a bygone era; it's not "safe" enough to race on by modern standards and would cost too much to alter and is probably too long to ever host many tv-format races, so there's not many ways of actually turning a profit. I suspect it will fall into disrepair until a developer buys it and turns it into a shopping centre or housing estate. It won't be the first track this has ever happened to, France is pretty much littered with them, it's just the most famous. Last edited by Kupiter Belt; 22 July 12 at 05:37.

17 July 12, 00:14	#2
So-Cal-Racing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North Carolina	Why doesn't Audi's Dr. Wolfgang Ullrich buy it ? He's a multimillionaire

17 July 12, 00:50	#4
Tkrau Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Central California	Oh man, that sucks! Talk about a catch 22...the people most likely to try to help, can't.

17 July 12, 00:55	#5
pitradio Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Near TT Assen	I'm afraid this is the end of the Schleife. It's too expensive in these times. Impossible to make F1 races because of the cost of Bernie, not enough income from track days etc to pay the taxes and maintenance.. It wouldn't be too unexpected to see the site changing into a luxury housing development site for those who want to 'feel' the place where formerly the Nordschleife was..

17 July 12, 00:58	#6
trotter2k Uploader Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: United Kingdom Age: 34	the EU sucks along with the Euro, we should be saving these tracks that have a deep History to them.............RedBull should buy it, they got the A1 Ring.

17 July 12, 04:41	#7
Tkrau Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Central California	I can't help but think that SOMEONE will step up and purchase it...there's too much motorsports history there to let it be turned into another overpriced neighborhood.

17 July 12, 05:08	#8
wpsracing78 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Adelaide, Australia Age: 23	10 million?? SURELY that can be raised!!

17 July 12, 07:26	#10
-=Prodrive=- Uploader Join Date: May 2006 Location: London, UK Age: 32	They effectively destroyed the Osterreichring (my other favorite circuit), so it wouldn't surprise me if the 'Ring was destroyed and turned into houses or something too.

17 July 12, 08:59	#11
LeSunTzu Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Paris	It is rather funny to see that the Ring might be another casualty of the German way to handle public money.

17 July 12, 10:00	#12
pitradio Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Near TT Assen	I think the EU should look at Spanish and British football teams with enormous debts. In general it's all pretty much fine in Germany. All football teams there are not allowed to be in debt, while Real Madrid are like €500 million in debt, same goes for Barcelona, United and Chelsea. And this is just 10 million. Why are football teams allowed to receive support from the state? Why a beautiful race track isn't? People are saying that selling the squad would make some teams fully lose their debt. But it's not a guarantee.. Messi can get an injury making him worth €1. Same goes for all other players. Or when interest in football collapses there's no reason the player would still be worth that much. Especially there's no reason why players earn this much money like €100,000 per week.. It's ridiculous.

17 July 12, 10:19	#13
dodo3000 Alcoholic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: near Cologne	Yes, but der Goverment of germany isn't realy intrested at the Ring, only the GOverment of Rhineland-Palatinate is intrested. The German way to hanlde public Money isn't comprehensible, because no money is spend to Buildings, Race Circuit etc., but we send a incomprehensible sum to greece.

17 July 12, 12:00	#15
dodo3000 Alcoholic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: near Cologne	It looks like that there will be no 24h Race in 2013......

17 July 12, 12:46	#17
dodo3000 Alcoholic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: near Cologne	The Ring is now managed by an insolvency and there is big problems with contracts (F1,ADAC etc.). Be sure I can understand this text, I'm from germany

17 July 12, 17:10	#20
kennyken Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Age: 25	Not to mention a popular testing ground manufacturers. How much is that rollercoaster they got worth, maybe sell that to someone.

18 July 12, 09:57	#22
jostheboss Uploader Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Betuwe, Holland Age: 38	Nurburgring GMBH bankrupt ! http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...-11823964.html

18 July 12, 10:12	#23
Raikku Donated Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Finland	Those sums would be childs play to some billionaire. There are plenty of them in the world, so now we just have to show this problem to someone who can solve it.

18 July 12, 10:20	#24
xanaxkamikaze Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Atlantis	Screw football ; save The Ring

18 July 12, 10:57	#26
xanaxkamikaze Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Atlantis	Chains of Debt are the new way of enslaving all of us. Chains of Iron were the visible form of enslavement. Now we have debt to give us the invisible prison of invisible money that mostly only exist as an entry on a computer file. $ = Suffering They come to take your circus away (The Ring), then your home, then your children, then they have it all... All these money problems are largely fictional (exist on a computer, you need faith to believe in debt). The Ring is real (in the flesh, you can see it to believe it) Ball and Chain economics - the invisible prison Now go ahead and sue me for "being off topic"

18 July 12, 11:39	#27
mrpowcz Join Date: Feb 2010 Age: 23	I don't think its offtopic, however it doesnt really matter if the money are "real" paper ones or a bunch of 1s and 0s on some server, its money with the same value.. in the form of 1s and 0s it saves more money because you dont have to print them.. What really bothers me that I read that there isn't really any financial crisis, at least not comparable to 1920s, that the western world enslaves itself by thinking there is crisis which in turn does create real crisis because people and markets dont trust each other

18 July 12, 13:56	#28
Raikku Donated Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Finland	It's quite obvious that EU and its financially strong countries should stop wasting their money to backup countries who had caused their problems by themselves, and give that money to more important projects instead, like this case.

18 July 12, 19:55	#30
webfoot Join Date: Oct 2008	This must be a candidate for World Heritage Site. I wonder how people go about getting such status for places of historic importance?

18 July 12, 23:06	#31
aspirin Donated Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Germany Age: 52	I remember a thread about plans for a copy of the Nordschleife in the United States. In this thread, I stated that the Nürburgring GmbH will need nobody to destroy the Ring, because they will do it by themselves. I have to admit, they were faster than I expected. One word about German money, sent to Greece: Yes German money goes to Greece, only to be returned to five gloabal banks, one of them Deutsche Bank or the German industry. Neither the German nor the Greek people will see one single cent. Cheers, rainer

19 July 12, 08:31	#33
pepa1 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Czech republic Age: 41	Some other source of information about the Ring bankruptcy: http://mikefrison.com/1666

19 July 12, 14:56	#34
MadNitroBooster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Finland Age: 26

19 July 12, 19:16	#35
Tkrau Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Central California	Jeez...what a mess. I knew before this thread that the Ring was in some financial difficulty, but had no idea it was/is THAT convoluted.

20 July 12, 23:31	#37
gears Donated Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Higgs Boson Age: 45	I've been thinking about some "historic" stadiums in the US that have been saved by corporate sponsorship. How would you guys feel about "The Quicken Loans Nordschleife" or "The Nordschleife, Presented by Tostitos"?

21 July 12, 00:25	#38
mrpowcz Join Date: Feb 2010 Age: 23	Sure why not, but currently the debt is 420M euro or 520M $. Thats some serious money. Hard to say why anyone would be interested I think that turning a stadium into profit from debts is easier than large racing track.

21 July 12, 01:22	#39
pitradio Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Near TT Assen	Indeed. In stadiums you can host concerts, they need not as much maintenance. Nordschleife = asphalt + guardrails + vegetation etc etc You can make a stadium interesting for specific audiences. It's harder to do this to a racetrack. They have Rock am Ring but I don't see how such an event can save a whole racetrack..

21 July 12, 01:59	#40
gears Donated Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Higgs Boson Age: 45	No you don't understand. It isn't about the profitability, it's about the exposure. These stadiums were not making money either and/or needed major renovations. But they hosted a Major League Baseball or Football team that had lots of TV coverage. Corporate sponsors make billion dollar deals to have their names on the stadiums for a given number of years. Not just on the Stadium, but in the name of the stadium. That money keeps the stadium going and/or gives them the money to make necessary renovations. In some cases, the sponsors build those teams entire new stadiums in exchange for the corporate brand in the name of the stadium. Like Heinz Field (Heinz Ketchup Company), the Pittsburgh Steelers stadium. Do you think the Grand Am series could survive without "Rolex" in the title? I wonder?

21 July 12, 02:11	#41
markspeed Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego, California Age: 39	Why don't the three major German auto manufacturers VAG, Mercedes and BMW pool some cash together and own it as there personal test track. Each of these companies spends more than 10 million dollars are year that is just thrown at adds which don't translate to car sales. And by that I mean there's 10 million dollars spent by each out of the total of their ads budget that is not represented in sales numbers I suspect. Their profits may sure exceed their ad budget, but not all of their ad budget accounts for sales. Take a portion of that, and own the Ring. Then they can test their all they want and when they want. They can recoup some of the cost with track days and promotional events. And they can except the loss of the rest, cause their already losing it. It's 10 million a year right? Chump change for the number 2 auto maker in the world VAG, that last I read on them. They could do this on their own, but it should be all three. Teamwork on this sort of thing would be politically smart I think.

21 July 12, 15:45	#44
mrpowcz Join Date: Feb 2010 Age: 23	Yeah. If there's high chance they would lose 1% of their money, they won't try to save it.