Nürburgring bankrupt - Page 2

Tkrau · 22 July 12, 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kupiter Belt

...it's not "safe" enough to race on by modern standards...

It is kind of narrow out in the back half.

Kupiter Belt · 22 July 12, 05:35

I put safe in the ""s to try to avoid the whole "motor-racing has always been dangerous" vs "safety is important" debate, since it's already been done to death.

Pun unintended.

Cham3leon · 26 July 12, 21:25

Even if touristenfahrt (I possibly mispelled it) was losing money, the amount of drivers that go and drive there itself must be worth something. Advertising, anyone?

But yeah, not likely that they hadn't had that idea as well. And you're right, it doesn't look good. The track is too long to be converted into anything that satisfies the safety standards of modern day racing, and if track days don't reel the money in, what else can they do with a huge ringroad in the middle of the forest? The size of that thing probably just ups the maintenance costs skyward.

Tkrau · 27 July 12, 15:45

It'll never happen, but I'd like to see a F1 race there as part of the schedule.

mrpowcz · 27 July 12, 19:49

Meh actually F1 races wouldn't be that great, there would be absolutely no overtaking ever, with todays levels of downforce it is a bad track for openwheelers.
Endurance, with all LMPs and GTs on the other hand..

Tkrau · 27 July 12, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrpowcz

...there would be absolutely no overtaking ever...

...like the massive pass-fest that the rest of today's tracks offer? And the LMPs aren't exactly lacking for downforce either.

mrpowcz · 27 July 12, 21:50

It would be even worse I think since the track is narrower than most other.
LMP itself would be boring too but multiclass WITH GTs would be cool.

Tkrau · 27 July 12, 23:03

Truth on the narrow part, as I mentioned earlier...I think that that's part of the track's problem in general. And as other have mentioned earlier, bringing the whole thing up to current standards that would support F1, LMP etc would most likely be impractical-or-worse in this economy.

The facility in general may realistically be past its prime...unfortunately. I do like the idea of Mercedes or VW/Porsche/Audi (or both) purchasing it but, again, I doubt it'll happen.

skiffle · 28 July 12, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kupiter Belt

I'm sure I read somewhere that the track-days were actually losing them money because of the amount they were having to spend on maintenance and marshaling now that every man and his dog go there to hoon around it and buy a decal to stick on their car like a badge of honour.

The sad truth is that the track is a relic of a bygone era; it's not "safe" enough to race on by modern standards and would cost too much to alter and is probably too long to ever host many tv-format races, so there's not many ways of actually turning a profit.

I suspect it will fall into disrepair until a developer buys it and turns it into a shopping centre or housing estate. It won't be the first track this has ever happened to, France is pretty much littered with them, it's just the most famous.

Even in its day the Nurburgring was considered unsafe - the 1970 Grand Prix had to be moved to Hockenheim after the drivers refused to race there, and there was regular criticism of the state of the track and the lack of marshals right up until Lauda's accident in 1976, which brought things to a head.

aspirin · 28 July 12, 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cham3leon

...what else can they do with a huge ringroad in the middle of the forest?...

...in the middle of nowhere would be more appropriate. The nearest town is Mayen with a population, lower than 20.000, half an hour ride to the Ring, when there is no big event.

In my eyes, the problem is not the racetrack itself, but the idea to take a giant amount of money (loaned from banks) and build a congress center an amusement park and a large hotel in Nowhereland. What kind of congress should be held there? The annual meeting of fishermen or the a fundraising event of the friends of the squirrel? Düsseldorf, Cologne and Frankfurt offer enough possibilities for congresses and meetings, and these cities all have international airports as well as a nightlife. All I can say is bye-bye Nordschleife although I am hoping fore someone to buy-buy Nordschleife. Cheers, rainer

edubz123 · 28 July 12, 08:35

There could be a surprising happy ending.

So now banks and other bondholders take over and sell to highest bidder. I think there's a lot of interest in the track, so maybe some enthusiasts come together to preserve just the track (forget the hotels, rides and other stupidity). "Enthusiast" could be even like Oracle CEO --he just recently bought 90% of one of the Hawaiian islands.

I think somehow there will be racing on Nordschleife in 2013, could be a lot of Oracle banners or something funny like that however.

aspirin · 28 July 12, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by edubz123

...maybe some enthusiasts come together to preserve just the track...

Good idea. How about the "German" drivers, who live abroad and don't pay any taxes in this country, while stupid fans still buy fan merchandise, thus making them even richer

.Cheers, rainer

DurgeDriven · 29 July 12, 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by edubz123

(forget the hotels, rides and other stupidity)

It is not stupid idea.

No one said make it into a amusement park either.

( gessus )

It is pretty simple concept, you sell state and private land you build a community, community need jobs , a Motel is one Job

Some money from the property sales goes towards a road repair levy.
It gets policed with point to point speed cameras.

You take taxes and the road levy and fines and you have enough to upkeep your Nords properly.

Kupiter Belt · 29 July 12, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DurgeDriven

It is not stupid idea.

No one said make it into a amusement park either.

( gessus )

It is pretty simple concept, you sell state and private land you build a community, community need jobs , a Motel is one Job

Some money from the property sales goes towards a road repair levy.
It gets policed with point to point speed cameras.

You take taxes and the road levy and fines and you have enough to upkeep your Nords properly.

All this you do in the middle of nowhere and just assume people will come? Seems like a way of losing more money to me. It's for that reason that the theme park and hotel which are already there aren't making them any money.

YB0b · 30 July 12, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeSunTzu

It is rather funny to see that the Ring might be another casualty of the German way to handle public money.

pls enlighten us

wombat666 · 2 August 12, 10:16

The Government of China will probably buy it!
They're after everything else.

smoglessbutton4 · 2 August 12, 11:52

If the Nurburgring does fall into disuse, it may wake up Bernie Eccelstone and tell him that his race-hosting fees are ludicrous!!

Copyright · 2 August 12, 12:43

The day Bernie dies is the day Bernie stops charging outrageous fees

I've a question for any Germans here, are there any historical site laws relating to the castle Nurburg that apply to the surrounding area?

smoglessbutton4 · 3 August 12, 13:27

Eh up, good news

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101699

mrpowcz · 3 August 12, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copyright

The day Bernie dies is the day Bernie stops charging outrageous fees

...Only to be replaced by somebody just as money thirsty...
It's the same as with non democratic countries where always people cheer when their terrible dictator dies and there is so called "revolution", only to be replaced by someone even more merciless..

edubz123 · 3 August 12, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoglessbutton4

Eh up, good news

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101699

yaaa! more debt, but same guys at the top.

Dunno who said it but the saying goes like this:

"Do not trust those that created the mess to also clean it up."

^From US banking crisis days ~2009

YB0b · 3 August 12, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by edubz123

yaaa! more debt, but same guys at the top.

Dunno who said it but the saying goes like this:

"Do not trust those that created the mess to also clean it up."

^From US banking crisis days ~2009

you're right! the owners of NB GMBH are morons with no idea about motorsport.

BLeeKii · 3 August 12, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrpowcz

It's the same as with non democratic countries where always people cheer when their terrible dictator dies and there is so called "revolution", only to be replaced by someone even more merciless..

The same could be said of democratic countries when the "other" party gets voted in

Those that forget the past are doomed to relive it....

Perhaps after 40-odd years this is the final death throws, although many of us would hope not....
But since when has the wish of many outweighed the want of a few?
Particularly when politicians & big money been involved!

Quote:

Originally Posted by wombat666

The Government of China will probably buy it!
They're after everything else.

Only if they can grow food on it or dig minerals out from under it....
Either way it would still mean the 'rings demise!

SmokinJoe347 · 7 August 12, 13:39

Pssssttt, anyone got Branson's number, he's a gazillionaire?

22 July 12, 05:35	#52
Kupiter Belt Uploader Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom Age: 26	I put safe in the ""s to try to avoid the whole "motor-racing has always been dangerous" vs "safety is important" debate, since it's already been done to death. Pun unintended.

26 July 12, 21:25	#53
Cham3leon Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Croatia	Even if touristenfahrt (I possibly mispelled it) was losing money, the amount of drivers that go and drive there itself must be worth something. Advertising, anyone? But yeah, not likely that they hadn't had that idea as well. And you're right, it doesn't look good. The track is too long to be converted into anything that satisfies the safety standards of modern day racing, and if track days don't reel the money in, what else can they do with a huge ringroad in the middle of the forest? The size of that thing probably just ups the maintenance costs skyward.

27 July 12, 15:45	#54
Tkrau Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Central California	It'll never happen, but I'd like to see a F1 race there as part of the schedule.

27 July 12, 19:49	#55
mrpowcz Join Date: Feb 2010 Age: 23	Meh actually F1 races wouldn't be that great, there would be absolutely no overtaking ever, with todays levels of downforce it is a bad track for openwheelers. Endurance, with all LMPs and GTs on the other hand..

27 July 12, 21:50	#57
mrpowcz Join Date: Feb 2010 Age: 23	It would be even worse I think since the track is narrower than most other. LMP itself would be boring too but multiclass WITH GTs would be cool.

27 July 12, 23:03	#58
Tkrau Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Central California	Truth on the narrow part, as I mentioned earlier...I think that that's part of the track's problem in general. And as other have mentioned earlier, bringing the whole thing up to current standards that would support F1, LMP etc would most likely be impractical-or-worse in this economy. The facility in general may realistically be past its prime...unfortunately. I do like the idea of Mercedes or VW/Porsche/Audi (or both) purchasing it but, again, I doubt it'll happen.

28 July 12, 08:35	#61
edubz123 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Chicago USA	There could be a surprising happy ending. So now banks and other bondholders take over and sell to highest bidder. I think there's a lot of interest in the track, so maybe some enthusiasts come together to preserve just the track (forget the hotels, rides and other stupidity). "Enthusiast" could be even like Oracle CEO --he just recently bought 90% of one of the Hawaiian islands. I think somehow there will be racing on Nordschleife in 2013, could be a lot of Oracle banners or something funny like that however.

2 August 12, 10:16	#66
wombat666 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Great Southern Land	The Government of China will probably buy it! They're after everything else.

2 August 12, 11:52	#67
smoglessbutton4 Join Date: Jun 2012	If the Nurburgring does fall into disuse, it may wake up Bernie Eccelstone and tell him that his race-hosting fees are ludicrous!!

2 August 12, 12:43	#68
Copyright Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Victoria	The day Bernie dies is the day Bernie stops charging outrageous fees I've a question for any Germans here, are there any historical site laws relating to the castle Nurburg that apply to the surrounding area?

3 August 12, 13:27	#69
smoglessbutton4 Join Date: Jun 2012	Eh up, good news http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101699

7 August 12, 13:39	#74
SmokinJoe347 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Shropshire, England. Age: 51	Pssssttt, anyone got Branson's number, he's a gazillionaire?