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16 May 12, 22:34
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#1 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Upgrade PC or start all over?
I know most of you will tell me to start all over, but I have a lot of other expensese right now (just bought a house), so thats an option I'm not crazy about at the moment. Here is my current PC Specs:
Motherboard- GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R LGA 775 Intel P45 Processor- Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Hard Drives - 2x WD HDD's RAM- Kingston HyperX 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Video card- HIS Ice-Q H487QT512P Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Sound card- Creative Labs Audigy Power supply- CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W Now, I can currently play most racing sims on really high to max settings but my FPS aren't super high on some sims and with a bunch of new sims about to be released I feel I may need to upgrade soon. My question is would it be dumb to upgrade my graphics card with this system? Am I just throwing money away? Is there another option that won't cost me a lot but will breathe more life into my current system? Thanks! Last edited by jeff323; 16 May 12 at 23:13. |
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16 May 12, 23:19
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#2 |
Join Date: Jan 2011
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For rFactor2 , pCARS and anything else coming aka AC I recommend a build.
You want a gruntier video card and a Processor to push it harder then the E8500 will. I would keep soundcard and Power Supply ( hardrive/s only if needed ) and replace with Realtek HD onboard, single 5000GB drive and a 500watt PSU ......and sell the lot. That should make the whole upgrade process less painful. SandyBridge 2500K / Mid range Z77 motherboard / 8GB DDR3- 1600MHz plus best video card you can afford. If you put a faster Processor you only going to raise a few fps. If you put a faster card the E8500 will not push it hard enough reducing the bang for buck. |
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17 May 12, 02:29
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#3 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Thanks for the reply "DurgeDriven". If I do end up building a new one, is the Sandy Bridge i5 really enough for today and into tomorrow? I kinda thought i7 was taking over from the i5? I just don't want to be outdated in a year that's all.
And why do you suggest getting rid of my 750w power supply for a 500w, and one of my HDD's? Just to put some money in my pocket towards the new system? Music is my other hobby so hense the 2 HDD's. And my current motherboard actually has Realtek HD audio onboard, but I didn't like it, so I kept my old SB board. I was getting a buzzing noise regardless of what drivers I used so I gave up on it. Even by today's standards the Audigy card sounds real nice. Thanks again for the input... It gives me some food for thought! |
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17 May 12, 02:35
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#4 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Well the 2500K will run pCARS and rF2 and AC ( I assume ) as fast as your video card allows you too.
No you do not need a i7 for sims, extra $100 on Processor gives little if any bang for buck. If you get a Z77 motherboard you will upgrade to IvyBridge processor later. |
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17 May 12, 06:50
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#5 |
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bognor Regis, UK
Age: 35
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As DurgeDriven said the 2500K is a good choice, but you'll need a newer graphics card.
I went from a Core 2 Duo E6400 to my 2500K and went from 4GB DDR2 to 8GB DDR3, but my ATi Radeon 4870 512mb is holding it back with pCars and rF2!! It's gr8 for rF1, GTR2 and iRacing etc, but the next gen racers that will make use of DX11 will bring the 4870 to it's knees. My system ran pCars ok until they started using their new lighting model and now my 512mb of onboard ram on the 4870 can't get it moving  .
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17 May 12, 08:13
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#6 |
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Donated
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Melbourne
Age: 47
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Start from scratch and go AMD, its better value for money. Intel is over priced right now.
Spend the savings on a PCI-SSD or a better GPU. AMD's Trinity is going to wipe the floor with Intel's Ivy Bridge. 
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17 May 12, 09:03
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#7 |
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Age: 59
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Generally, if the base system is at least four years old retire it to backup status and start over because you're going to end up replacing everything anyway.
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17 May 12, 11:29
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#8 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Quote:
I just dont know where to start. So buy a AMD + SSD is going to be better bang for buck then a 2500K@4.5Ghz In what world. ? Wipe the floor in ya dreams. lol 
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17 May 12, 11:54
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#9 |
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Donated
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: United Kingdom
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As if,That 'Bulldozer' still taking scalps is it??
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17 May 12, 21:32
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#10 | |
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Donated
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Melbourne
Age: 47
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Quote:
This world is the real world. 
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17 May 12, 21:34
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#11 |
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Donated
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Melbourne
Age: 47
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Floor wipping http://phys.org/news/2012-05-amd-tri...intel-ivy.html
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17 May 12, 22:40
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#12 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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They rival IvyBridge in APU
and if you are a simmer who cares about that ? It does not mention raw speed anywhere...........more bulldozer BS hype. |
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17 May 12, 22:42
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#13 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Quote:
Your point being. ? P.S. I recommend FM1 for HTPC though. |
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17 May 12, 22:52
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#14 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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2500K + ASRock Z77 PRO3 Motherboard = $344
actually your setup at my shop is 139 + 195 (990x Sabre) = $ 334 Were you get for $310 ? Good price even at $310 the Sandy is still better bang for buck. |
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17 May 12, 23:52
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Damn guys! Didn't mean to start a pissing contest!
 I'll have to start thinking about upgrading I guess. Even if I just use my current video card to hold me over or something for a few months. At least that way then I'll have a better system than now and won't feel like I am throwing money away when I do get a new card. |
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18 May 12, 01:12
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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No contest, 2500K is the bang for buck setup
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18 May 12, 08:47
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#17 |
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Donated
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Melbourne
Age: 47
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She's all good jeff. I think the intel lovers are that way because it wasn't long ago that intel where in the lead but very expensive but not necessarily better bang for buck. I think at the end of the day any new system is going to be better than 1 that is a few years old.
AMD or Intel not much difference in bang compared to buck. Durge probably thinks Holdens are better than fords too but he would be wrong on that too. He has poor taste but good humor. Disclaimer: coments about Durge are made in good humor and do not reflect any serious opinions made by this poster. AMD is better than Intel like I am better than all any silly cycilist from NSW. |
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18 May 12, 12:24
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#18 | |
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: leicester uk
Age: 58
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Quote:
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18 May 12, 16:20
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#19 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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It is a simple fact not fanboyism ? ........and the more you overclock the Sandy the bigger difference is. !
I for one hope AMD pull their finger out because if they don't Intel will start limiting its processor performance aka they have nothing to beat. |
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22 July 12, 00:10
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#20 |
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central Otago. New Zealand
Age: 58
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I'm also looking at a new build for rf2
So this thread is of interest to me. I was thinking i5 but wasn't sure which one. So the 2500k is the way to go. Would that be the 3.3 or 3.4 GHz. Now regarding the mobo, always a hard one for me with so many to choose from. If LGA Z77 is the way to go, then that narrows down the search a lot. |
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22 July 12, 02:41
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#21 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Quote:
i5 right again imo best bang for budget i5-2500K 3.3GHz ( 3.7GHz Turbo ) If you not going to buy Decent Air or Liquid Cooling at this time the i5-3570K is worth considering for a few dollars more. 3.4GHz ( 3.8GHz Turbo ) Clock for clock it is slightly faster then the i5-2500K Intel4000 It uses a little less power |
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22 July 12, 03:26
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#22 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central Otago. New Zealand
Age: 58
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Thank you for that.
Re the mobo, you suggest ASRock Z77 PRO3. Thats not a high spec board if this is the one you mean http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157297 |
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22 July 12, 05:42
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#24 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central Otago. New Zealand
Age: 58
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oh, you guys always go for the big engines.
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22 July 12, 05:49
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#25 |
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central California
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Ain't no power like HORSEpower...
Seriously tho, I do my upgrades with some thought to the future as I can't afford to swap everything out every year. Go big now w/the CPU and your favorite motherboard builder's 2nd best board and you can be set for two, maybe three years. Especially since the curve starts to flatten out rather significantly as you get towards the top of the arc. Then the following year, get your fave GPU builder's 2nd best card. Rinse and repeat every other year. And stuff as much RAM in as you can afford. - edit - is that your Mustang? |
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22 July 12, 06:21
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#26 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central Otago. New Zealand
Age: 58
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Hey thats good advice & I am limited to a budget too.
Yep, that was my Mustang. Unfortunately I had to sell it. My health was deteriating & I could no longer offer it the care it deserved. I do feel privilaged though, to have owned a slice of American history. |
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22 July 12, 15:47
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#27 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central California
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Oh, that's a shame...looks like it was a nice one, as best as I can tell from a tiny pic. What engine?
Advice-wise, the absolute best'est I can offer (and if you aren't already doing so) is to learn to do your own builds...labor is a BIG part of any upgrade cost. Also, go bigger than what you need right now on your power supply and that should set you up for awhile as well, as long as the overall power spec doesn't change significantly. Note that the Noctua cooler I linked to is adaptable in the mounting config, which is one reason why I got mine...more future-proofing. |
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22 July 12, 19:48
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#28 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central Otago. New Zealand
Age: 58
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I must appologise to jeff323 for hijacking his thread, but I guess this info could be helpful to him.
The old horse. 65 A Code 289 auto. Drum brake, armstrong steering. Original unrestored condition. Imported from California. |
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22 July 12, 22:36
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#29 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central California
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23 July 12, 03:39
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#30 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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wheels Budget okay. i5-2500K - $220 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115072 Not budget but will keep you gaming for next 2 years That board I outlined was in the context of building a 2500K for the same price as a AMD. ( I use MSi ) MOTHERBOARD - $95 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157297 The PRO3 is budget gaming board 4th cheapest Z77 at NewEgg I think It has all the features you need with a few drawbacks. It has 4+1 Phase power only which will in most circumstances limit overclocking and it does not have 8x8x lanes for dual cards not that will bother you most likely .... If you want to get budget cooling like Artic Pro or CM Hyper and overclock to 4.2GHz it will be fine. If you want to overclock 4.5Ghz+ I recommend better Cooler ( like Corsair Hydro or Noctua ) and better ( dearer ) Phase Motherboard RAM - 8GB 1600MHz - $45 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231546 COOLER - $40 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835186039 $400 do me Overclock to 4.2-4.5GHz depending on ambient temps The more you can spend above that ( $400) on the Motherboard and Cooler the better. |
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23 July 12, 16:24
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#31 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central California
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I'd also suggest that the absolute LAST thing to think about is SLI/Crossfire. I still am not all that impressed with the cost vs performance factor a dual card rig delivers.
A good case, however, is a good investment IMO. Learn to re-time your RAM...the default settings will work (obviously), but there's usually a bit of flex available as well which adds a bit of free performance upping and can, in some instances, make the overall system a little more stable as well. |
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23 July 12, 20:41
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#32 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central Otago. New Zealand
Age: 58
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Looks like the CPU is going to be the bigger expence for me.
I already have a GTX560Ti. I'm not in a hurry so will keep watching for a good deal. The i5-3570 may suit me better. Won't be overclocking, so will go with a stock cooler for a start |
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23 July 12, 21:26
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#33 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central California
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I'd still suggest that you at least consider aftermarket cooling...factory coolers don't always consider the loads that gaming can put on the CPU, or the particular climate conditions in your area. Here in the San Joaquin Valley and right at this moment (just after 2 PM), the outside air temp is about 102/F which is normal for this time of year (remember, it's summer up here now). Sure, my house has A/C but that's set to 79/F to keep the power bill from being too outrageous since it runs 12, 14, sometimes 16 hours a day. But my point here is that before I installed my Noctua cooler (the same one I linked to earlier), my factory-cooled CPU (Intel E6750, o/c'd 5%...yes, I too need to upgrade) would hit 68-70/C (both cores) under load this time of year, which is pushing the upper limits of safe operations, and note that it's only slightly o/c'd. Now, it'll hit maybe 52-55/C loaded big-time and right now is idling @ 35/C (both cores). And this is also without huge amounts of fan noise from it either...bonus.
Last edited by Tkrau; 23 July 12 at 21:37. |
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23 July 12, 21:39
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#34 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central Otago. New Zealand
Age: 58
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He looks up his temp conversion chart.
Ok its currently 32 outside. I'm hiding the office with a little fan heater at about 50. In summer we get 70 - 80 |
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23 July 12, 22:52
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#35 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central California
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70 - 80/F, right? Otherwise...lordy...
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23 July 12, 23:22
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#36 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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I have to agree with Tkrau
Even at 20C ambient at the very least I would get a Hyper212, well worth the extra $20 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103065 |
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23 July 12, 23:30
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#37 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central California
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That looks like a decent little cooler, and for $20 it's a no-brainer. I'd swap the sleeved fan for a better bearing system at some point, but still...
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24 July 12, 00:00
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#38 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Quote:
Can't dismiss the bang for buck factor, you pay $360 to improve performance whats another $20 for 5-10% gain. With Hyper212+ I overclocked 2500K to 4.5GHz in decent ambient temperatures and ran Prime @ 5GHz So you will run overclocked at lower temperature for $20. 4.2GHz would be its sweet spot anything less is just a waste. 3DMARK2006 2500K - GTX460 (815/4000) 22,802-W7 (3.3GHZ) 25,800-W7 (4.2GHz) 26,847-W7 (4.5GHz) 27,657-W7 (4.8GHz) 28,432-W7 (5.0GHz) |
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24 July 12, 00:15
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#39 | |
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Donated
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: United Kingdom
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24 July 12, 00:23
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#40 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central California
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2 August 12, 02:00
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#41 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
Age: 51
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pCars runs bad like SMS does. SLI is a waste. Your fine!
Durge just waves his flags a bit more than most.
He's a good kid. I appreciate his passion. But here comes straight shootin' advice from an old vet. Be at peace with what you have, the future is long ahead. I love to read between the lines. Jeff the OP is pretty happy with what he has now. I read that as GTR2 and rFactor1 even with heavy mods fly along without a care. GTL is odd at Targia, FPS hits. But I will fix that for you. Race 07, the whole gMotor 2 lot are fine. NFS Shift 1 (not a true sim) run a bit worse but still good enough, Shift 2 is the worst running POS I have ever tried. Uninstalled. If you run mostly these old gMotor2 programs like I do Do this... (Expecting Durge to come objecting like...well...crazy) Run them on Windows XP 32bit. Now listen. These old programs are a 32 bit .exe and have absolutely NO BENEFIT when run on a 64bit OS. Hell, they dont even recognize dual core CPU properly. Love watching CPU usage in GTR2 at default. 100% Core0, 0% Core1. They also have NO BENEFIT running more than XP's limit of 3.5GB RAM. The programs were not even designed to calculate anything more than it's original OS limit. Yadda, Win7 and that silly 4gb patch. Set infinity, yadda. I dual boot and sim hard. WinXP32bit and W7 Ultimate 64bit. My current system specs are similar to Jeff's Socket 775 -Wolfdales are the best you can do with it. Start clocking CPU but stay stable. I have an E8200 clocked to 3120mhz 8gb PC DDR3 PC1600 (rare to find board with skt 775 and DDR3) Galaxy 560ti 1GB- Your card is short on VRAM Gmotor2 will use near 1GB max modded and yadda, yadda... Run CTL+F for the frame counter in your gMotor2 stuff. Watch minimum FPS in particular, and try to induce from FPS hits by loading up big tracks and large grids. I like GT Legends at massive Targa to prove my point. What I like is that my one install runs from both OS. I am a good 20% or more better FPS on XP. All around. Min or max, way fewer FPS hits. Allows higher settings! Drivers, yadda...this is native kernel support power all the way. Runs so much better. You worry about future sims, so do I. But I am extremely happy now with what I have. I am now the biggest refresh rate prick. V-Synch stays on-60fps MINIMUM. The smoothness and immersiveness improve dramatically. Gmotor2 serves me well in that regard. That being said; God does SMS suck. Shift 2 was the worst thing in a long time. At normal 1080p res, needed SLI or XFire and 2 high end cards AND foresaid i2500K to even get close to 60FPS min, probably won't! And thanks to AFR rendering SLI and Xfire runs bad Lets not talk microstutter. 60FPS appearing like 30. I'm angry enough now. They have no clue of letting up. Tell me what rig can run pCars now at 1080p, 60fps minimum. I'll tell you. Nothing. But lies, of course. Do not trust their FFB skills, or lack thereof. Proven junk. I wont go into their incorrect car physics models. Let JDougNY here at NoGrip enlighten you. They have no clue. Stay far away. And sad to say, rF2 runs like dog too right now. Right here at no Grip! rF2 is DX9! http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=277554 It almost supports my claim of 3D software being designed to make customers upgrade hardware. Hell, if they made a great sim that ran perfect on everybody's rig Nobody would but new video cards or CPU's! Just ask SMS! I am praying for GTR3 to be the saviour. So much is unknown. So, just get back out on the track. You're just fine, and I made you downgrade and run better. If you must spend, be wise and cheap. Have fun clocking that CPU, Gig boards are easy and good for that. Find a slightly faster 1GB card used. Sell yours to flip the money. Then run the old school stuff on XP like this old schooler And watch it fly. Start crazy modding hi-rez tracks and cars it's free! Enjoy the best sim in the world. And do not let the hardware upgrade addiction consume you. Because that is what SMS wants. Last edited by craigstys; 9 August 12 at 18:01. |
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2 August 12, 14:17
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#42 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lisboa, Portugal www.gtlw.co.uk
Age: 38
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Sorry for the off-topic.
Quote:
It's true that by default they don't take use of it, they are older gen and 32-bit coded software but, FYI, you do take advantage of things such as 64-bit OS, +4GB ram mem and multi-core processors with Gmotor2 based games such as GTR2, GTL and Rfactor1. You just need to take a couple of steps and adapt a few things for that. The performance increase is quite noticeable in my own experience (others will confirm their own experience). In this regard, I'm not sure if there's something newer/different but what I've seen recomended - and can vouch for- are these: 1) RunAff to set the CPU cores (all or not, as you wish) to the game executable: http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=204589 2) If you have +2 GB ram, it might be a good idea to "patch" these old game executables with CFF-Explorer, to take full advantage of the bigger amount of ram mem (GTL and GTR2 executables originally limit usage to 1.7 GB ram AFAIK, not sure on rFactor1): http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1534091&postcount=4 This is even more usefull for those with +4 GB ram and 64-bit OS, because these newer systems do not have the tight mem usage limitation of 32-bit OS (limited to 3.75 GB max, AFAIK). EDIT: don't forget to use the NO_CD patch for GTR2 if using 64-bit OS. EDIT-2: the "more than 2GB ram usage" in executables is already a gaming-industry standard. BTW, both these two "adaptions" will have to be done only once per installation, as the functions will be recorded and used the next time you run the game. Believe me, there are only advantages with these games on a 64-Bit OS and +4GB ram mem, so long as you follow the steps for it. ...don't believe me? ...try for yourself!
Last edited by DucFreak; 2 August 12 at 16:34. |
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2 August 12, 15:17
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#43 | |
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: California
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Quote:
If you absolutely cannot afford to change all the big dollar components now, I'd recommend this... Go with the 2GB version of the GTX560Ti. A CoolerMaster H212+. An SSD drive for Win7-64 install. Overclock the E8400 to at least 3.6GHz. They seem to run very stable there with a good fan. That'll get you a really nice bump in performance. I have a friend who just did the exact same thing...with that exact processor. He's getting 35-40 fps in RF2 @ 1600x1200 all setting to medium except shadows...those are set to low. He doesn't have Pcars, so I don't know how that'll run. Best of all, when the money becomes available to upgrade the CPU and M/B, you can move everything you've bought for this temporary 'bump' to the new system. Last edited by DoubleT; 2 August 12 at 15:33. |
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2 August 12, 15:36
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#44 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central California
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Verifying that both GTL and GTR2 (only titles I own) do benefit from a 64-bit/4+ Gb RAM system - I use a large-address-aware patch and have run the task manager's performance window on my side monitor while in both games (and with minimal background tasks running); I have seen my RAM usage go well into the 3 gig area regularly.
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2 August 12, 18:17
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#45 |
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Great Southern Land
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Well.......I decided it was time for a serious rebuild and pretty much started from ground zero.
And TBH I had a few bucks from the sale of one of my bikes, so a serving of wretched excess was in order. Mobo: Gigabyte G-1 Sniper 3. Chip: Intel i7 377K @ 3.5Ghz, no O/C just yet but it's early days. RAM: G.Skill 16GB DDR3 PC17000 RipjawsZ (4x4GB) Graphics: 2x XFX 7970 Black XXX 3GB in SLI. Drives: 2xOCZ Vertex 3 SSD 240GB + 2xWestern Digital 1TB VelociRaptor SATA-III + LaCie d2 Blu-ray Drive. Case: Cooler Master Cosmos II. PSU: Corsair AX-1200 1200W ATX 100% Modular Cabling. CPU Cooling: Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H100. Way over the top but better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!!!  And at least I've kept my Benq XL2420T 24 Inch 120hz Gaming Monitor and my Win 7 Ultimate OS!!! It should handle most of the sims I prefer: pCARS, rFactor, NFS2 and even FSX. Next step will be a pair of Gainward Geforce GTX690 4096MB GDDR graphic cards, but I'll be selling off my Moto Guzzi first! 
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2 August 12, 18:33
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#46 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lisboa, Portugal www.gtlw.co.uk
Age: 38
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LOLA little(!) overkill but you won't need to upgrade in the next coming years. PS: ...sure hope that Guzzi isn't one of the old Le Mans series.
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2 August 12, 18:55
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#47 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chicago USA
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I was also approaching the end of my line on this AMD955/5770 machine so I had to start over.
Here's what I'm building (* = still to be purchased) CPU: i5-3570K (found one at Micro Center for USD$189, only ten minute drive from my house. will pickup this week likely. edit: done) Cooler: CM Hyper Evo Mobo: Biostar Z77 RAM: 2x4GB GSkill 1600 PSU: Corsair 80+ Silver 850W *Case: Rosewill Thor V2 white (USD$112 on newegg right now, in my shopping cart) GPU: purchased "gently used" 2x GTX580s 1.5GB for USD$500 total (will move up to 2x 670 late 2013) SSD: Samsung 830 128GB on sale today for USD$99 @newegg Should be enough to crush anything. Intel socket1155 is where dreams begin! Last edited by edubz123; 5 August 12 at 04:44. |
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2 August 12, 22:56
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#48 |
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Portugal
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<- this was my reaction when i saw your pc specs here are mine: Pentium 4 1 Gb ram nvida 6600 256 mb AMD athlon 2400+ 2 2000 Mhz And you still think you need an upgrade? I run GTR2 and GTL on the lowest possibly definitions and i still try to tweak it so i cant get a slight decrease on FPS and somewhat big increase in quality whenever i load le mans 70's and 25 cars i have to wait half an hour for the CPU to stop freezing every 5 seconds still i have alot of fun |
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2 August 12, 23:17
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#49 |
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Donated
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: United Kingdom
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"PS: ...sure hope that Guzzi isn't one of the old Le Mans series"
That's what I was thinking!
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3 August 12, 07:17
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#50 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Great Southern Land
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The Guzzi is pretty much modified into an 'almost' LM version!
Nice handling and great for nipping up inside the bigger Japanese bikes in corners. [At a track day of course!] I've slipped a photo into the Members Cars [Why no bikes Mods?] gallery FYI. The bike I parted with recently was a 350 Morini, sweet little scratcher but I'm needing to thin out the collection.
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