What I don't like about pCARS*

[ermo]

I hate that pCARS has bloody eye watering graphics.

I dislike that SMS work dilligently to ensure that the physics engine has microsecond accuracy which will gracefully fall back to millisecond accuracy on less powerful hardware. It displeases me greatly that this allows the core physics to run at a 600Hz tickrate on most PCs.

I abhor that the developers are listening to the input of the community instead of just going off and doing their own thing.

I find it exceedingly vile that the ghost feature is coming on nicely and I positively loathe the stunningly beautiful dynamic weather.

It drives me absolutely nuts that SMS have a bloke working full time on perfecting the AI code. Crikey.

The car and track selection? At least there are no Ferraris and Porsches, though unfortunately it will be possible to sample a wide selection of embarrasingly good looking and interesting cars and a veritable smorgasbord of famous tracks. At least they're not laser-scanned, only painstakingly reproduced by talented artists using accurate CAD data and reference photographs.

What do I think about the highly tweakable, reworked FFB subsystem? It's a right mess, that's what it is, what with the official documentation included in the community-coded FFB Tweaker tool. Pah. Having convenient tools and being able to tweak the FFB to one's liking is clearly for wankers. What a load of crock.

And for the record, it sucks that SMS plan to add excellent multiplayer features and it is terribly unfortunate that they plan to add that positively stupid dynamic track surface feature (which noone need -- nor want -- in a racing sim) and it annoys me to no end that they plan to revamp the tyre model to give a progressive feel in transient grip conditions. On the positive side, at least these features haven't landed in any public build yet. And thank god for that.

Just about the only other good thing I have to say about pCARS is that, luckily, it isn't finished yet, though it does grate that the pre-alpha builds are surprisingly playable. At least it gives me an additional 9-12 months to whinge and complain about absolutely everyting that is wrong with that horrible, detestable pile of rubbish going under the working title 'Project C.A.R.S'.

Seriously. It's ruining my appreciation for every other racing sim . A right lot of conniving bastards, that's what those SMS blokes are.


*: ...

[edubz123]

And how do I get a refund?

I would like my 10 Euro back so I can go buy a burrito and coke.

[max attack]

Gotta hate that..
Wheres ma gun. I cants takes its no more I tells ya.

[PortuguesePilot]

you know, this quasi-religious blind pCARS "followism" is rather laughable. you all sound like gullible followers like the ones Kant was referring to when he spoke of the "lesser men who'd rather follow someone else's moral law instead of forming their own" in Aufklärung. you know? the ones who serve as a counterpoint to Nietzsche's Übermensch.

this sort of people operate on blind faith and eat whatever hype their "gurus" feed them. no matter how much they claim that "this is my opinion", it actually isn't: they're just replicating whatever their "gurus" fed them. quite a pitiful sight, to be honest...

these shenanigans that, for some reason, seem to abound around these parts aren't working. first the whole Micas' "only my opinion counts. only i am right and everyone else is wrong" ordeal, then the name calling, baiting and the ruthless trolling, now the "pCARS is 189324792 times better than anything else and everything else is a clown sim" and now even "reverse psychology" posts...

you may not realize it, but this fundamentalist and infantile approach is doing to pCARS and its community what - in the long run - may well prove to be unrepairable damage.

[max attack]

We are all entitled to our opinions. I do think you are over reacting to humor though.
I'm sorry for causing you so much angst.
What Sim do you like best Pilot?

[MaddmattH]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

you know, this quasi-religious blind pCARS "followism" is rather laughable. you all sound like gullible followers like the ones Kant was referring to when he spoke of the "lesser men who'd rather follow someone else's moral law instead of forming their own" in Aufklärung. you know? the ones who serve as a counterpoint to Nietzsche's Übermensch.

You're obviously so intelligent that the humour went over your head

[ermo]

@PortuguesePilot:

You're right, I quite like that SMS decided to employ Micas as a part-time ambassador of good faith for pCARS. His people skills are quite legendary and he has brokered peace and built bridges during many a heated forum argument both here and elsewhere. All in all an excellent asset for SMS. They should clearly employ more people like him.

Project C.A.R.S: Driving Sheep

[SternRav0R]

Man if the sarcasm got any thicker in this thread I'd need a sludge hammer to scroll down.

[max attack]

Originally Posted by SternRav0R

Man if the sarcasm got any thicker in this thread I'd need a sludge hammer to scroll down.

This is what I hate
Winning

[redi]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

you know, this quasi-religious blind pCARS "followism" is rather laughable. you all sound like gullible followers like the ones Kant was referring to when he spoke of the "lesser men who'd rather follow someone else's moral law instead of forming their own" in Aufklärung. you know? the ones who serve as a counterpoint to Nietzsche's Übermensch.

this sort of people operate on blind faith and eat whatever hype their "gurus" feed them. no matter how much they claim that "this is my opinion", it actually isn't: they're just replicating whatever their "gurus" fed them. quite a pitiful sight, to be honest...

these shenanigans that, for some reason, seem to abound around these parts aren't working. first the whole Micas' "only my opinion counts. only i am right and everyone else is wrong" ordeal, then the name calling, baiting and the ruthless trolling, now the "pCARS is 189324792 times better than anything else and everything else is a clown sim" and now even "reverse psychology" posts...

you may not realize it, but this fundamentalist and infantile approach is doing to pCARS and its community what - in the long run - may well prove to be unrepairable damage.

And the same argument goes for those who have slandered the project from the very beginning because a) the developers previously made a game that didn't match their hardcore requirements so they absolutely cannot be able to produce a real sim, b) the game will be multi-platform, so per definition it's not a hardcore sim despite the devs stating that their aim is a full-on sim and c) anything positive that people who like the game will post is per definition dismissed as fanboyism.

Really, it's bit-by-bit the exact blind fanaticism that you are accusing people of, with the big difference that the OP here is a tongue-in-cheek posting while the hardcore fanatics are dead serious and hence an order of magnitude worse.

The preposterous hardcore hating in several forums may well prove - in the long run - to have done unrepairable damage to the simracing community. It's really a pitiful sight how this small group of hardcore haters are just replicating what their gurus are feeding them.

[KittX]

oh, another "believe or die" topic

[redi]

Originally Posted by KittX

oh, another "believe or die" topic

Standard process with this game, every topic is turned into it within 14 postings

[Chronus]

The preposterous hardcore hating in several forums may well prove - in the long run - to have done unrepairable damage to the simracing community. It's really a pitiful sight how this small group of hardcore haters are just replicating what their gurus are feeding them.

This is...unbelievable.

[ermo]

Originally Posted by KittX

oh, another "believe or die" topic

Share the love!


Meanwhile, in the real world, a lot of people understand that Project C.A.R.S. is competing in a marketplace saturated with other excellent racing titles and is certainly driving competition to the benefit of simmers everywhere.

Are SMS looking at the other sims? Definitely. Are the other sims looking at pCARS? More likely than not.

Do I think pCARS is the one and true sim? Of course not. That would be silly in the extreme. In fact, I think we're being spoiled for choice these days.

I liked S2U, for instance, because of its immersion, not necessarily for its driving feel (far from it, in fact). I recently fiddled with HistoriX (slippery!), the Caterham mod (nice and progressive handling) and DRM for rFactor and it struck me how it appears that S2U was meant to be on par with rF in the tuning/tweaking department (even if slightly dumbed down to avoid turning away less technically minded customers). Unfortunately, the tuning/tweaking feature didn't work out too well in S2U for whatever reason. And I definitely like the rFactor (RealFeel+G27) handling feel better than S2U. But the presentation in S2U is pretty decent and certainly managed to draw me into the career.

If pCARS can match (or exceed) rF on the technical front, match (or exceed) LFS on the FFB/handling 'feel' front and include some of the production values that made S2U a nice experience from a game point of view, I think it will be well positioned in the marketplace. Of course, I expect that SMS will want to do better than that, but we'll just have to wait and see how it develops.

Will rF2, Assetto Corsa and iRacing be better than pCARS at various things? I'd be surprised if they weren't, to be perfectly honest. And I'm cool with that. SMS are clearly not the only developers on the planet who know how to develop top notch racing simulator games targeted at commercial gaming platforms.

But what really bothers me is when someone equates Micas with SMS. Micas is Micas and SMS is SMS. Don't ever confuse the two. SMS is no more under Micas' control than you are under mine. If you tend to conflate the two, I strongly suggest that you re-examine your position. There's a good reason SMS are insisting on keeping 100% creative control of their creative work.

@PortuguesePilot:

So yeah, I'm clearly a sheep and have to rely on other people's opinions instead of forming my own.

And just to make myself perfectly clear: I have no beef with you. Like you, I think it is important to take a balanced view and form my own (mostly) balanced opinion of the world in general, not just racing simulation games.

Peace.

[Monsoon]

Beetches please, the only true sim is GTR2. Unless your head is in the Nirvana (much like 50% of my AI after a 2h race at Le Mans)

It's all about quantity, where's that Le Mans, ALMS, LMS, WEC, FIA-GT, DTM, WTCC, STCC, ABS, TC, WTF, RGB, PC, AMD and F1 1980 - 2012 uber mod!!??

[BLeeKii]

I read the first post early this morning & it gave me my first good laugh of the day, well written with a good healthy dose of sarcasm!
Unfortunately, my system isn't up to running PCars/rF2 or several other of the new sims coming out/in development at the moment.
I got into sim-racing because I can build tracks of roads I know & love.
Im not sure if any of the new sims will allow me to do this besides rF2 & from what I understand, even that is well over my head.
I haven't tried these sims & doubt I will anytime soon so I can't really comment on them besides some of the pic's I've seen posted & all of them look GREAT & leave me envious of the skills any of these builders have!
I just wish I didn't have to filter through, at times, such vehement posts to see some of those pic's.
Maybe if more folks could engage their humour, whether it be sarcasm or otherwise, than their anger when posting their opinions more people might be willing to chat & debate about the Pro's & Con's of these new games.
After all, aren't we supposedly in this for the fun?

[wombat666]

Originally Posted by BLeeKii

I read the first post early this morning & it gave me my first good laugh of the day, well written with a good healthy dose of sarcasm!
Maybe if more folks could engage their humor, whether it be sarcasm or otherwise, than their anger when posting their opinions more people might be willing to chat & debate about the Pro's & Con's of these new games.
After all, aren't we supposedly in this for the fun?

+110%

[gears]

Originally Posted by redi

The preposterous hardcore hating in several forums may well prove - in the long run - to have done unrepairable damage to the simracing community. It's really a pitiful sight how this small group of hardcore haters are just replicating what their gurus are feeding them.

I was going to stay far far away from this thread, but that ^ is hilarious.

Where do I get one of these gurus??

[SternRav0R]

Originally Posted by gears

I was going to stay far far away from this thread, but that ^ is hilarious.

Where do I get one of these gurus??

Oh you can usually find them hanging out on an Oval in iRacing somewhere.

[gears]

Originally Posted by SternRav0R

Oh you can usually find them hanging out on an Oval in iRacing somewhere.

Ahhh I should have known. These gurus cost money

[maeckie]

imoho, this belongs on the wmd forums not here, thx for your attention.

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by MaddmattH

You're obviously so intelligent that the humour went over your head

i'm intelligent enough to understand the supposed humour (not that refined, after all) but i am also intelligent enough to understand the underlying message and to disagree with it.

apparently you're obviously so intelligent that you couldn't understand that...

Originally Posted by max attack

This is what I hate

*bunch of pictures*

yes, we got it already. you're a graphics dude. graphics take the precedence over everything else for you. we get it.

Originally Posted by redi

And the same argument goes for those who have slandered the project from the very beginning because a) the developers previously made a game that didn't match their hardcore requirements so they absolutely cannot be able to produce a real sim, b) the game will be multi-platform, so per definition it's not a hardcore sim despite the devs stating that their aim is a full-on sim and c) anything positive that people who like the game will post is per definition dismissed as fanboyism.

in a way, yes. sure. but if that was directed towards me, then i want you to point to were have i said those things. if you have read all of my comments regarding pCARS with care you'd understand that i mainly criticize these facts:

a) it's not really being made with the "community assistance". as i've explained elsewhere, there's a difference between what's a community and what's the community. so, the whole initial idea described by Ian Bell that i was so fond of (written in that thread that got mysteriously deleted) was distorted down the line (mainly after the arrival of the big investors that started to count more than you in a "whomever screams loudest is right" kind of (i)logic). this situation renders the whole project and even the game's nomenclature as a misnomer.

b) the whole religious-like buffs who, after a while, started to appear around here, with what looked like a cart blanch for them to do what they pleased, including trolling, baiting and name calling. these people started to impose their view on pCARS and to belittle everything else and to treat unjustifiably harshly everyone who happened to think differently.

c) i never invested because i don't like to pay for beta testing, even with the promise of having some profit down the line (it always strikes me as odd why you get a share of the revenue but not a copy of the game? odd...) but i have tried the game in several places and at least three different versions of pCARS and they never felt right. you know, we usually see stunning pics of pCARS posted everywhere... but they're static. in the PCs i tried the game, the owners had to tone down the graphics for it to have a flowing FPS value and to be any playable. the graphical "dumbing down" required made the game look less than attractive with things like objects popping and wired glows and shadows everywhere. the physics were quite sub-standard when compared with other sims, even older ones, i have explained elsewhere why i think that (tyres, grip, suspension, feel, FFB, etc).

d) the announced (you're part of SMS, you know what i'm talking about. don't pretend you don't) inability to mod the game.

e) the predicted (by me. let's see if i'm actually wrong or not) iRacing-like milking strategy being considered for pCARS.

f) the necessity to have, at all times, an autolog to an active internet connection, even if you just want to go for a lone cruise on some track.

now some people say that maybe some of these (namely points d, e and f) are not as i say they are, but i reserve myself the right to wait and see. i have that right, have i not?

so, in conclusion: i speak with knowledge of cause. i have tried pCARS (even if it wasn't the latest beta). i have read the comments and reacted to them. i have been named called, baited and trolled... i know of what i speak. so, again, i want you (or anyone else, for that matter) to point up to any opinion or comment of mine that isn't sustained by actual hands-on knowledge of cause.

thank you.

Originally Posted by redi

The preposterous hardcore hating in several forums may well prove - in the long run - to have done unrepairable damage to the simracing community. It's really a pitiful sight how this small group of hardcore haters are just replicating what their gurus are feeding them.

are you for real? please explain this a bit better... i'm not sure i got it right (or at least i hope i haven't).

sorry for the somewhat long post, but i think it's better to condense all my replies into one post instead of posting 3 or 4 posts in a row.

[redi]

Originally Posted by Chronus

This is...unbelievable.

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

are you for real? please explain this a bit better... i'm not sure i got it right (or at least i hope i haven't).

Of course that comment was put there in jest, to counter PortuguesePilot's melodramatic judgement of the supposed 'pCARS fanboys' ' fanaticism in public forums .
Am I an avid sim racer? Yes. Am I emotionally involved in the whole sim vs simcade vs arcade hoo-ha? Nope, unless people are stating fantasy for facts and get personal (and ugly) in their rants.

However, I do agree with what someone posted about all this recently (not sure here or on another forum) that this war waged by a small group of self-declared hardcore simracers about what is sim and what is not is looking totally ridiculous to the outside world, and the fanaticism going into it is making the sim racing community look like a bunch of idiots if you'd assume their behaviour representative for the whole sim racing community.

The reactions in this thread to the first posting and the ensuing same-old 'discussion' are a prime example of it, some people seem to have missed the tongue-in-cheek and light-hearted intentions of it completely, and start lashing out calling people fanboys, fanatics and whatnot. Are you for real?

We're talking about computer games here, not about people banging on your door to kill your family. Passion is one thing, overdoing it is another. What's wrong with saying 'game A doesn't do it for me, I'll stick to game B', or 'I'll wait until final release to see if game X is worth my time' and leave it at that? Why all the venomous hate and personal attacks, disguised and excused as 'just my opinion'?

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by redi

(...) However, I do agree with what someone posted about all this recently (not sure here or on another forum) that this war waged by a small group of self-declared hardcore simracers about what is sim and what is not is looking totally ridiculous to the outside world (...)

a war being waged? wasn't aware of that. maybe Micas did try to wage a war against all the "infidels", but i haven't seen anyone else wage any kind of belligerence. people talk. and sometimes they talk stuff that you don't agree with. that's where discussions arise from and i think that's what a forum is about: discussing things. is that waging a war for you? if it is, then i'm sorry to burst your bubble, but you're looking at it wrong.

oh, and BTW: wasn't that "other place" you mentioned the WMD forums? probably. because the real outside world couldn't care less about what either group argues about. only the two groups do.

Originally Posted by redi

The reactions in this thread to the first posting and the ensuing same-old 'discussion' are a prime example of it, some people seem to have missed the tongue-in-cheek and light-hearted intentions of it completely, and start lashing out calling people fanboys, fanatics and whatnot.

so, if i'm reading this correctly, people are not allowed to discern the subliminal message of a post if it was written in a joyful, humorous way? i can condone the holocaust and slavery in a joyful, humours way if i want... will that make them acceptable and - more- irrefutable? nice logic there...

Originally Posted by redi

We're talking about computer games here, not about people banging on your door to kill your family. Passion is one thing, overdoing it is another. What's wrong with saying 'game A doesn't do it for me, I'll stick to game B', or 'I'll wait until final release to see if game X is worth my time' and leave it at that? Why all the venomous hate and personal attacks, disguised and excused as 'just my opinion'?

sure. one thing still bugs me, though... why didn't you told that to Micas and his several minions when they clearly overdid it?

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by redi

We're talking about computer games here, not about people banging on your door to kill your family. Passion is one thing, overdoing it is another. What's wrong with saying 'game A doesn't do it for me, I'll stick to game B', or 'I'll wait until final release to see if game X is worth my time' and leave it at that? Why all the venomous hate and personal attacks, disguised and excused as 'just my opinion'?

This. Redi, you know as well as I do that this is the era of "scorched earth" opinions. It isn't enough to just say you don't like something anymore. In order to feel you've made your point you must destroy everything in your path. It's pathetic in the real world, politics for example, and an order of magnitude more pathetic in the gaming world.

[xanaxkamikaze]

What I don't like about pCARS* ...

Threads and discussions like this! I haven't even seen or played this game, but this constant bickering about it is a big TURN OFF.

[edubz123]

forget the bickering and just pay the 10 Euro and try it out.

This bickering will continue ad nauseum, but the software IMO is pretty good already and getting better each day. That's really all you really need to know.

[xanaxkamikaze]

Originally Posted by edubz123

forget the bickering and just pay the 10 Euro and try it out.

This bickering will continue ad nauseum, but the software IMO is pretty good already and getting better each day. That's really all you really need to know.

Yep and it's a WIP... don't you all understand this?
All of these opinions are worthless, not worth reading, not worth paying attention to because this game isn't finished and any opinion is premature and a waste of time.

Save your opinions for when the game is "finished"

[zeymatis]

I joined 25 euros on the first day of beta and have to say that the game is now 1000% better ,,, just pay the money and look forward to christmas every Friday for gods sake !!!

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by xanaxkamikaze

Save your opinions for when the game is "finished"

but, supposedly, this is a "community assisted" product. how do you give your input into the development if you stay quiet?

people should have the option to give their personal input for something that goes as far as calling itself "project Community Assisted Racing Simulator"... but you have to pay to have (do you ever really have it?) that privilege. thus, by this logic, whomever doesn't buy into pCARS (literally) isn't a part of the so called community. so it's not assisted by the community (everyone who's into driving sims) but driven by a community (the people who bought into pCARS and, understandably, want to see it succeed and thus will laud their product beyond anything else, even if it's not quite accurate to do so...)

this is where most of the fuss comes from. this and the odd anti-social approach some influential members have adopted around here in the past and that made every non-pCARS-afiliate free-thinker frown upon. it was, as i have already said so before, a huge PR and marketing mistake...

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by xanaxkamikaze

Yep and it's a WIP... don't you all understand this?
All of these opinions are worthless, not worth reading, not worth paying attention to because this game isn't finished and any opinion is premature and a waste of time.

Save your opinions for when the game is "finished"

We do understand that it's a WIP/preALPHA/BETA ect..

The fascinating part is watching it mature through the development process. Something rather unique in this genre.

[maeckie]

i have no feelings for or against pCars. i want a 'perfect' game, no matter who develops/publishes it.

Originally Posted by redi

What's wrong with saying 'game A doesn't do it for me, I'll stick to game B', or 'I'll wait until final release to see if game X is worth my time' and leave it at that?

exactly saying just that gave reason to SMS to rip me off my money i put down to support pCars.

they called it trolling.

immediatly banned and no refund given. ( allthough i was kindly offered a personal refund by you redi and i respect that highly )


i want to read interesting reports about the development of the games that are in the pipeline these days.

simracers are a small specialized gaming community. we don´t need to get splitted in smaller parties. let the companies fight their battle for our attention, and not bash ourselves in their name.

i want real physics and they are out there. how can i tell a developer what is real and what is not ? whether they are capable of completing the task or fail is up to their skills.
what tracks and cars i want as content , is secondary to acquire the necessary licences.
community development is a big word and a great idea, sure. when you can´t please everyone you will have people going into opposition. it´s natural.

when we can´t have one game that unites us all, we can still have this website to get the job done !

[Dogzero1]

Portugese Pilot; some excellent and well thought out posts there. And I agree with you 100%. The trouble is that most forums seem to be moderated by people who have connections with SMS/WMD or are investors. There could never be a fair and balanced discussion due to that fact. It takes barely minutes before you are mugged not just by the fanboy's (I hate that description) but also by moderators in the faint belief that they are moderating fairly and in the good interests of the sim community.

I want to carry on discussing the game I really do, but it's pointless. If you point something out it's pre alpha and you'd better shut up you troll.

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by Dogzero1

Portugese Pilot; some excellent and well thought out posts there. And I agree with you 100%. The trouble is that most forums seem to be moderated by people who have connections with SMS/WMD or are investors. There could never be a fair and balanced discussion due to that fact. It takes barely minutes before you are mugged not just by the fanboy's (I hate that description) but also by moderators in the faint belief that they are moderating fairly and in the good interests of the sim community.

I want to carry on discussing the game I really do, but it's pointless. If you point something out it's pre alpha and you'd better shut up you troll.

you're right. i have reached this very conclusion several times before as well, but each time a burst of new pCARS fanaticism arises, a need to express my opinion grows to a point where i can't keep my mouth shut (or fingers still).

i am conscious that i'm walking over a very thin layer of ice. it is very probable that i will, one day, be banned just for speaking out my opinion...

[Dogzero1]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

i am conscious that i'm walking over a very thin layer of ice. it is very probable that i will, one day, be banned just for speaking out my opinion...

Oh you can have an opinion mate. Just make sure it is in line with theirs. Simple rule. You should have realized. As for the OP in this thread, well if that isn't blatant trolling in order to bait then I'll show my bum in Trafalgar Square. I understood the underlying message ok.

I think I made my mind up about Pcars (although I am still hoping) when they decided that they would allow modding, hinted that you would need constant internet and finally when Bell stated that their aims were to compete with other simcade console games, Forza and GT. I knew the chance of a great PC physics driven simulator was finished then. Yes the eye candy is spectacular and would be ideal to demo to your mate and neighbour when they pop around but I crave real simulation and real simulation community formed thereafter.

We can live in hope.

[AzRiM]

I post rarely and I never posted in pCARS threads (I think ) but I only can say 10 Euro is not much , you spend that amount each day, lets say on snacks but I still regret spending it on pCARS ,so disappointing is the state of the physics till now (FOR ME, MY OPINION),
but I hope it gets better so that it can do justice to the look and eye candy of the game.

[edubz123]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

but each time a burst of new pCARS fanaticism arises, a need to express my opinion grows to a point where i can't keep my mouth shut (or fingers still).

You seem to be oddly attracted to this "pCARS fanaticism". WWNS? (What Would Nietzsche Say?)

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by edubz123

You seem to be oddly attracted to this "pCARS fanaticism". WWNS? (What Would Nietzsche Say?)

who knows? who cares? i know what i'd say: whenever i see things posted as "absolute truths" - and i, for whatever reason, know they aren't such - i always like to present the other side of things. hence why i keep coming back here to voice out my opinion.

i don't think Nietzsche would care much about such mundane subjects, but your post brought forth in my mind the words of someone else: Timothy Radcliffe. he said: "claiming that you have got the truth wrapped up does breed violence and intolerance."

coincidently, this is what's happening here. all the pCARS affiliates act as some religious buffs do - that their opinion is fact and everything else is wrong. i merely try to show that there are different perspectives, opinions and ideas. nothing more.

i also don't like to see incoherence, lies, injustice, defamation and other things of the like and i will always vociferate against them.

as i said before: it may well prove to be my own undoing around here, but i cannot, want not and will not deny myself of being who i really am: a man who thinks with his own head and speaks up what he thinks in the most correct way he knows how, even if said words may well give him a fate similar to that of Giordano Bruno.

but weren't we discussing pCARS? why the need to focus on me now?

[redi]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

... why the need to focus on me now?

Um, because you're calling someone who posts his personal positive opinion about this computer game a fanatic religious fanboy?

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by redi

Um, because you're calling someone who posts his personal positive opinion about this computer game a fanatic religious fanboy?

i thought you could see further than that. my mistake, then. i thought i had made myself clear but apparently i hadn't. please, allow me to elucidate who i meant to call fanatic religious-like fanboys: those who swear total and absolute loyalty to pCARS and only pCARS and, in the process, choose to spite everything else. so it's not the fact that someone posts a positive opinion of pCARS... it's the fact that they hail it as the ONLY thing worthy of praise and the smear they put onto everything else. though much less profound and less reverberating, it's still basically the same principle that lies under the phrase "my god is the only true god and all the other infidels must die".

this thread is just one of many, many others each with seemingly countless posts that follow that exact way of "reasoning" (for the lack of a better word).

if you do want to disprove me, disprove my ideas and my words, not PortuguesePilot, the person. can you understand the difference? where have i ever called people any names? i have, though, qualified some of their attitudes, yes. and you're all free to do the same about my attitudes if you present valid argument that i accept as true. as i have said so in the past: i speak. i discuss. but if people show me that i am mistaken, i will retract myself and change my opinion. that's the difference between a balanced free thinker and a fundamentalist.

[gears]

Originally Posted by AzRiM

I post rarely and I never posted in pCARS threads (I think ) but I only can say 10 Euro is not much , you spend that amount each day, lets say on snacks but I still regret spending it on pCARS ,so disappointing is the state of the physics till now (FOR ME, MY OPINION),
but I hope it gets better so that it can do justice to the look and eye candy of the game.

The physics are so disappointing, you regret even spending snack money on it

[redi]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

i thought you could see further than that. my mistake, then. i thought i had made myself clear but apparently i hadn't. please, allow me to elucidate who i meant to call fanatic religious-like fanboys: those who swear total and absolute loyalty to pCARS and only pCARS and, in the process, choose to spite everything else. so it's not the fact that someone posts a positive opinion of pCARS... it's the fact that they hail it as the ONLY thing worthy of praise and the smear they put onto everything else. though much less profound and less reverberating, it's still basically the same principle that lies under the phrase "my god is the only true god and all the other infidels must die".

this thread is just one of many, many others each with seemingly countless posts that follow that exact way of "reasoning" (for the lack of a better word).

if you do want to disprove me, disprove my ideas and my words, not PortuguesePilot, the person. can you understand the difference? where have i ever called people any names? i have, though, qualified some of their attitudes, yes. and you're all free to do the same about my attitudes if you present valid argument that i accept as true. as i have said so in the past: i speak. i discuss. but if people show me that i am mistaken, i will retract myself and change my opinion. that's the difference between a balanced free thinker and a fundamentalist.

Please spare me the derogatory comments. Your eloquent use of English disguises your black-and-white thinking of calling people here or anywhere else fanatic religious fanboys because they happen to like a game. But I haven't seen any of those fanatic religious fanboys here. Is see people very enthousiastic, yes, but I see that happening for every race game/sim out there. Yet you choose to only call people who like pCARS "fanatic religious fanboys", and you're blowing things out of proportion in a way I never have seen before, and I've been around for a while. Is that what you call a "balanced free thinker"?

And if you're saying that you're not calling names by calling people "fanatic religious fanboys" as a response to someone's posting, then you apparently don't understand that by not calling explicit names, you can still call names. Saying that you didn't refer to anyone in particular is a rather poor excuse to hide behind.

"I like oranges."
"I think that people who like oranges are idiotic morons."
"???"
"Why are you looking at me like that, I didn't call you names, did I? I only qualified a certain attitude of a certain group of people."


You're also making a fundamental mistake about the burden of proof. If you call people names and accuse them of certain behaviour, it's your burden to prove your statements with solid arguments and factual information.

those who swear total and absolute loyalty to pCARS and only pCARS and, in the process, choose to spite everything else. so it's not the fact that someone posts a positive opinion of pCARS... it's the fact that they hail it as the ONLY thing worthy of praise and the smear they put onto everything else. though much less profound and less reverberating, it's still basically the same principle that lies under the phrase "my god is the only true god and all the other infidels must die".

This is the statement, or rather the preposterous accusation, you make, now add some proper argumentation to it. Prove that what you wrote there has actually happened somewhere. That's your burden, it isn't mine (or anyone else's) to disprove your accusations. You accuse, you prove.

[Chronus]

Originally Posted by redi

Of course that comment was put there in jest, to counter PortuguesePilot's melodramatic judgement of the supposed 'pCARS fanboys' ' fanaticism in public forums .
Am I an avid sim racer? Yes. Am I emotionally involved in the whole sim vs simcade vs arcade hoo-ha? Nope, unless people are stating fantasy for facts and get personal (and ugly) in their rants.

redi,

you talk about "personal", "ugly" and "rants". And always towards the group some of you call "pCARS haters".

Ok, what do you call this?

The preposterous hardcore hating in several forums may well prove - in the long run - to have done unrepairable damage to the simracing community. It's really a pitiful sight how this small group of hardcore haters are just replicating what their gurus are feeding them.

I can't find anything in the above that shows care and respect for "hardcore" simracers.

As I said, UNBELIEVABLE. It is not joe-poster posting the above, it is someone with great responsibilities in this community and someone most of us respect and admired - you.

As for hate: my posts towards pCARS, AJ, Doug and Ian are both respectful and full of hope. Maybe there was some disappointment several months ago, but that has gone and died away.

Now, how do we read your posts? It seems you profoundly dislike -to say the least- the (small) community which has been working in bringing the rest of you/us great modifications to original racing sims. Why do you? That is a good question. A big one.

Are there trolls? Yes, from both sides.

Are there inflexible people? Yes, from both sides.

Are there rude people? Yes, oh, yes, from both sides.

But...instead of systematically reacting defensively to questions and comments (such as "it is a matter of principle, I will not buy pCARS", as someone else said) and shoot unbelievable comments such as the one I quoted above, maybe some distance from all this is required?

Passion is one thing, overdoing it is another.

The EXACT same thing can be said about some of those supporting pCARS or, worse yet, representing it or the company behind it.

I doubt, I firmly doubt that Ian B. views such reactions as positive or that these reactions can have a positive effect on pCARS.

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by redi

Please spare me the derogatory comments. Your eloquent use of English disguises your black-and-white thinking

so now i'm a black-and-white thinker? what would that make Micas? yet i never saw you do anything about that nor did i ever saw you point a post towards him to warn him about his "black-and-white" ways. honest question: are there double standards, redi?

Originally Posted by redi

Is see people very enthousiastic, yes, but I see that happening for every race game/sim out there.

simply being enthusiastic isn't bad in itself. it's actually kinda good. but to dismiss everything else as "clown sims", as merely and example, is not as good, is it?

Originally Posted by redi

Is that what you call a "balanced free thinker"?

i consider someone a free thinker when said someone thinks with his own head, using his own reasoning and not buying into hype or pressure from the numerous "just pay the measly 10€ for the pCARS beta a see for yourself how unearthly good it is" posts.

Originally Posted by redi

This is the statement, or rather the preposterous accusation, you make, now add some proper argumentation to it. Prove that what you wrote there has actually happened somewhere. That's your burden, it isn't mine (or anyone else's) to disprove your accusations. You accuse, you prove.

i was expecting this for a while now. it finally came to happen. now i'm forced to tell you, redi, that the proof that you so much claim was present in that thread that went missing after the whole Micas ordeal. i've read that they're not really deleted but stored somewhere "out of sight". if that is the case, you can go there and see for yourself.
but then, i have a sneaking suspicion that even if if the thread wasn't deleted and i was able to link to it, you'd still disprove my words with the now typical phrase "that's Micas opinion and not fact. don't forget, Micas ≠ SMD". but we weren't talking about Micas and his opinions, were we? we were speaking about people claiming pCARS as the greatest sim ever in the world and name calling, baiting and trolling anyone who didn't agree and hence my equation of it to fundamentalism, right?

in short: the pCARS community bought the grudge when they took the path of the name calling, baiting and trolling. that was very ugly, unfair and uncalled for. i just won't forget what they did to me and to some of the other members who just happened to be dissatisfied with the way things were going with pCARS. i'm aware that this is mere politics and that it transcends the game itself, but - in the rock bottom of it all -lies the fact that i once had the audacity to say something less favourable about pCARS.

[edubz123]

Originally Posted by gears

The physics are so disappointing, you regret even spending snack money on it

Your opinion. And I'm glad I haven't spent any time/money on that other graphical eye-sore you seem to adore. See what just happened?

I think SMS can catch up to Kunos/ISI on FFB & physics faster than ISI will catch SMS on graphics. I doubt those other titles will even graphically rival Shift1 circa 2009 but I hope I'm proven wrong. More games for me.

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by edubz123

(...) I think SMS can catch up to Kunos/ISI on FFB & physics faster than ISI will catch SMS on graphics. I doubt those other titles will even graphically rival Shift1 circa 2009 but I hope I'm proven wrong. More games for me.

there it is again! this strange fascination and almost obsession with graphics so prevalent in the pCARS community.

my opinion: i couldn't care less about them. graphics are merely complementary. give me a great physics engine down to life-like gravity and inertia, realistic tyre and suspension models, accurate surface emulation and FFB, etc and it can come with untextured vector graphics for all i care...

am i alone in this? does this make me an eccentric? honest question. i really wanna know. please give your input.

[Siggs]

graphics certainly help realism to a certain extent. And in several ways Pcars makes use of them to aid in it's immersion. It's very subjective, but there you go.

for the most part I'm just a observer...

[AzRiM]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

there it is again! this strange fascination and almost obsession with graphics so prevalent in the pCARS community.

my opinion: i couldn't care less about them. graphics are merely complementary. give me a great physics engine down to life-like gravity and inertia, realistic tyre and suspension models, accurate surface emulation and FFB, etc and it can come with untextured vector graphics for all i care...

am i alone in this? does this make me an eccentric? honest question. i really wanna know. please give your input.

Am with you, and you are not an eccentric, I always had that opinion, I even prefer good sounds to a 50K poly model (and I model cars for 10 plus years now) and other graphic eye candy.
Ill take P&G v3 we are working on as an example. All the model modifications I personally did and few of the cars new cars I made for the mod would be meaningless for me without the physics and sounds that will come with P&G v3. I simply would not have joined the team if those two areas were not good as they are....

So I'll always take physics over graphics......

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

there it is again! this strange fascination and almost obsession with graphics so prevalent in the pCARS community.

my opinion: i couldn't care less about them. graphics are merely complementary. give me a great physics engine down to life-like gravity and inertia, realistic tyre and suspension models, accurate surface emulation and FFB, etc and it can come with untextured vector graphics for all i care...

am i alone in this? does this make me an eccentric? honest question. i really wanna know. please give your input.

No, you're not alone in that feeling. But after playing gmotor2 based sims for so long, it is nice to see someone pushing the envelope in the looks department, while still providing a "sim" experience. pCARS does that. While it is still in development, I do believe that it will be, and to some degree already is, superior to the current crop of gmotor2 sims, just my own opinion.

For disclosure, I only dabble in pCARS, occasionally playing new builds. I have spent 100 euros for a Senior membership. I spend most of my available time sim racing in iRacing, where I have invested a substantially higher amount in subscription and content(over $700 as of last week).

[Chronus]

Originally Posted by PortuguesePilot

there it is again! this strange fascination and almost obsession with graphics so prevalent in the pCARS community.

I am going to disagree with you there.

There are some in the pCARS community who very much want a great simulator from the physics engine standpoint - probably as feverishly as some of us "hardcore".

But then there are others who couldn't care less of what AJ has to say, other than acknowledging that they (AJ and the rest) are working on its physics.

For these people, as long as it has graphics to die for, it is enough.

So, I say, let them.

At least, some within pCARS think differently. Some are banging their heads to bring us a great simulation with a fine, solid physics engine. That is enough for me.

am i alone in this? does this make me an eccentric? honest question. i really wanna know. please give your input.

No, you're not.

But you are in the minority and as such those in the majority feel the need to ridicule you.

Let them throw their stones and ridicule you and others. They're probably incapable of performing 2 digits multiplications without the aid of a calculator (and a Windows-based, at that), let alone figure out what those symbols in books (by Pacejka, the Millikens, Katz, etc) mean.

Don't play their game.

Then, buy or don't buy pCARS. I have and I will, you choose as you see fit.