Why I Like pCARS

[Micas]

I get to see how the development process in the gaming industry works. I'm a software dev in the government sector (VA), and it's quite different. It's neat to see a development life cycle that isn't strictly waterfall.

Seeing incremental improvements to the content is fun to see. Sometimes small things go unnoticed because the development of tracks and cars are gradual, so you don't see the implementation of something like 3D trees, or improvements to textures and such unless you've read the patch notes and are looking for them. The way our shop works is that we don't show anyone anything until it's done and ready for SQA.

I enjoy reading about the "why" reasoning behind decisions that are made. The vast majority of games, you don't get much of an explanation behind that process, but SMS communicates directly with the team members and answers questions related to the hows and whys.

It's fascinating to see features such as the new weather system being built from the ground up, from screenshots that sometimes don't look so great, to the improvement in subsequent iterations, to finally the implementation into the builds.

SMS encourages and asks for feedback on new systems, so they can get as broad a response as possible rather than just basing decisions on a few of their own developer's views. The hardware configurations are vast in the WMD membership.

SMS also regularly provides different solutions to problems and requests members test and provide feedback on which they prefer.

The community at WMD predominately consists of sim fans, who are committed to providing positive and constructive feedback on feature improvements. SMS integrates that feedback into the game where they can, and when it fits with the broader design goals of the game.

SMS publishes design documents prior to coding those designs in order to solicit feedback for refining those features so they can leverage the wide variety of opinions at WMD. The offline, single player experience is being refined and improved based on that feedback.

The community itself is very enjoyable, and we're coming up on the one year anniversary of WMD. I've come to know quite a few awesome, committed individuals in the WMD membership and SMS staff. The amount of reference and marketing material the membership has produced has been staggering.

SMS has given us all an open invitation to participate in the financial issues involved in making a triple A game, from determining how the game is packaged and sold, to buying toolpacks or making investments that will lead to a commensurate share of the revenue when the game is released. I anticipate much more in this area as the game is closer to shipping.

Best of all, I get to play the builds and see the results of all the hard work from the guys on SMS staff. I've never been able to test a game so far in advance of release before, and I like seeing how SMS addresses features that work, and don't work. It's great to see SMS hiring some of the best talent in the industry and letting them do their best without constraints imposed by big publishers.

That's why I think the concept of WMD is so fantastic, and why I'm a big supporter of WMD and SMS.

Did I miss anything?

[MaddmattH]

You're wrong and pCARS is arcade and SMS are liars.



Must say Nordschleife is looking sexy with the new trees. Could be the best version yet when it's finished.

[TICTOC]

What's WMD?

[Kupiter Belt]

Originally Posted by TICTOC

What's WMD?

World of Mass Development... not the other thing with Saddam and his oil.

[ermo]

Originally Posted by Micas

(...)

That's why I think the concept of WMD is so fantastic, and why I'm a big supporter of WMD and SMS.

Did I miss anything?

No, that just about covers it.

I was initially drawn in because I had some unanswered questions in the wake of the S2U post-release discussions involving Ian and Griff here @NoGrip. The questions were related to, among other things:

• The widely reported steering-lag issues (acknowledged, discussed and subsequently fixed with the threading rework)
• The FFB issues (acknowledged, discussed and continually being worked on)
• The tyre model issues, such as low speed grip (acknowledged, discussed, fixed), snappy transient grip (acknowledged, discussed and in-development)
• How the suspension is modelled (answered)
• How inertia is calculated and how car data is acquired (discussed, reference spreadsheet with calculations for Cat R500 released)

I am happy to say that most of my questions have now been answered above and beyond my expectations, so that would be my personal highlight: The degree to which SMS are open, honest and straightforward with us on the WMD forums. In my experience, if you respect the spirit of the WMD concept and ask proper questions, you'll more likely than not get a straight answer and more to boot.

And, as you outline, lots of interesting, passionate and -- dare I say it -- inspiring people with whom to engage in discussion. And before everyone assumes otherwise, yes, there is plenty of room for heated discussion as long as it is kept reasonably civil and free of ad hominem attacks.

[Dogzero1]

It sounds fantastic. Should be the best and most realistic race sim ever made.

[Micas]

Originally Posted by ermo

I am happy to say that most of my questions have now been answered above and beyond my expectations, so that would be my personal highlight: The degree to which SMS are open, honest and straightforward with us on the WMD forums. In my experience, if you respect the spirit of the WMD concept and ask proper questions, you'll more likely than not get a straight answer and more to boot.

Totally agree with that. After I posted the message, I went back over to WMD and saw that AJ had posted 4 replies to questions. I don't pretend to understand the vocabulary of the discussion, but some of it makes sense. It's neat the way many members seem to understand what he's talking about. It sounds like he's getting pretty close to having something to include in a build to test... as in maybe a month or so is the impression I got, even though he didn't explicitly give a time line.

I'm thinking there might be more feedback of weight transfer, which is something I thought could be improved. I suppose there are a lot of variables involved, how the suspension is setup, the stiffness and so on.

It's apparent he's a really smart guy.

[ermo]

Originally Posted by Dogzero1

It sounds fantastic. Should be the best and most realistic race sim ever made.

... was that the sound of my sarcasm-slash-troll detector going off or am I just imagining things?

I would like to point out that I have, as I recall it, never implied that pCARS will go on to become the most realistic race sim ever made, so I think that this is a bit of a reverse psychology straw man argument (says he...). I have merely stated that I certainly hope that pCARS will end up becoming great, and that the quality of the answers given by the developers in the WMD forums (and in the comment section of recent VirtualIR article about AutoManiax) have done little to diminish that hope. And I fear that I'm beginning to repeat myself.

I get that people have been sorely disappointed by the promises/assertions made in relation to the SHIFT titles. And I get that the progress on the 'feel' of pCARS has been so slow as to turn some people completely off because in their view, this apparent lack of progress simply validated their reason to distrust the claims made by SMS about the quality and advanced nature of their MADNESS Engine tech. And I agree that the fact that large physics subsystems are being reworked does tend to lend credence to the supposition that something was not quite right with the MADNESS Engine tech as used in SHIFT and S2U.

And that leads me back to one of the things I like about pCARS and the WMD concept: The developers don't just stick their fingers in their ears and go "NANANANANANA". No, they listen and they allocate not insignificant resources to actually investigate and fix what is wrong if people supply solid, reproducible evidence. Of course, it is their prerogative to prioritize the issues according to their experience and available manpower, and even when I don't personally agree with those priorities, I also have to trust that as seasoned professionals, they most likely know better than I do.

Having viewed and triaged more issues in open source bug tracking systems than I care to count, and having been a co-maintainer for both a Linux distribution and the S2U UCP, it should come as no great surprise that I happen to have been exposed to my fair share of good and bad bug reports. So I like to think that I have a fairly balanced view of how to prioritize issues. You may or may not agree of course.

[mov|ng-target]

Let's hope the best and give them the time they need to make it a great sim!

[pez2k]

Originally Posted by ermo

I am happy to say that most of my questions have now been answered above and beyond my expectations, so that would be my personal highlight: The degree to which SMS are open, honest and straightforward with us on the WMD forums. In my experience, if you respect the spirit of the WMD concept and ask proper questions, you'll more likely than not get a straight answer and more to boot.

SMS' interaction with the community here after Shift 2 is a large part of why I joined WMD, to be honest. If they were willing to personally spend that much time answering questions and gathering bug reports despite being bound by NDAs and not even sure if they'd be allowed to patch, then they obviously had a genuine interest in the quality of their products and their fanbase. The impression that I got was of a company that, while of course proud of what it had produced, was frustrated at the shortcomings caused by imposed restrictions from the publisher. There were genuine reasons why they'd had to implement certain strange aspects like the sloppy setups, and it seemed that the Shift SMS wanted to make would have been a lot better than the Shift EA wanted to make. For that reason, I trusted SMS could and would make a better game on their own.

I originally joined up at Senior level because that was the most that I would be happy to write off as the price of a game and the unique experience of seeing it developed. Originally I had concerns about the game direction (would it be too dry to sell on consoles?), fundamental engine issues (the infamous input lag) and the ability of a new IP with no big publisher budget to attract big licenses (the first three of Gumpert, Ariel and Palmer were nice cars, but not exactly huge names). Fortunately all three were alleviated within a few months and I upgraded further as I now have the confidence that the game will indeed be a mass-market success.

I'm even considering buying more toolpacks now, the BMW license was a major score and any more on that scale would well demonstrate that SMS are seen by potential licensees as a major player on their own name, without needing someone like EA to back them up. That sort of recognition bodes well for all aspects of production, from attracting staff to working out retail publishing deals.

[WildBill]

I don't have Pcars yet but I am intrigued by it and probably will at least become a Junior Member.

I kind of relate the Pcars methodology to Curling where SMS has thrown the rock and the yay-sayers and nay-sayers are handling the brooms and with their combined friction the rock will end up where it stops.

This is healthy and heady stuff for a sim. At the moment the negativity is a little extreme but it's still early in the development process. Graphically---I honestly have never seen anything better--with the right input and careful listening on SMS's part----this game could and should be extraordinary.

Truthfully---it can't replace what I already have---I've invested a lot of time in Rfactor and my modified GTR2 installs and they are very satisfying. They definitely include cars and series that will NEVER be modelled in Pcars but Pcars will bring new and interesting cars as well--seeing as I enjoy the older forms of racing-----30s to 60s----I really think I'm in a niche in a niche and don't really expect to be catered to---lol

DRAGON

[Micas]

WildBill, hopefully after you get a chance to try out a build with the junior toolpack, you'll like it enough to upgrade to full member. At that level, you get weekly builds and when the game is released, a free copy of the game. Basically, you're pre-ordering but get to have some fun with it now and watch the progress. The forums really are a blast as well. It's not just a forum to talk about the game or racing, but a community has developed and friendships made.

It's always nice to have new opinions as well.

[NWRAP_Golly]

Im upgrading to full when I get home on break.
Love the way it looks and feels and look forward to the mp side of things.

[Micas]

Hi Gollum,

Last I heard about MP is that the devs are internally testing it now and should have a build out to the WMD members with MP pretty soon. My guess is that it's going to be a little rough around the edges, but as in most every feature they've rolled out, they don't wait until it's completely polished before putting it out for testing. That makes sense so they can incorporate feedback into the continuing development like they're doing for the weather system.

It should be really busy as well, considering how many thousand active WMD members there are. I'm just not sure if they're going to release the dedicated server side for members to host, or if it'll only be on SMS servers. They've probably mentioned that already but I've missed it.

[NWRAP_Golly]

Building a bigger rig too...looking forward to it. I have a junior membership now just think I should upgrade now as I will buy the full game eventually so may as well join in the fun

[kenpat]

Originally Posted by WildBill

I don't have Pcars yet but I am intrigued by it and probably will at least become a Junior Member.

I kind of relate the Pcars methodology to Curling where SMS has thrown the rock and the yay-sayers and nay-sayers are handling the brooms and with their combined friction the rock will end up where it stops.

This is healthy and heady stuff for a sim. At the moment the negativity is a little extreme but it's still early in the development process. Graphically---I honestly have never seen anything better--with the right input and careful listening on SMS's part----this game could and should be extraordinary.

Truthfully---it can't replace what I already have---I've invested a lot of time in Rfactor and my modified GTR2 installs and they are very satisfying. They definitely include cars and series that will NEVER be modelled in Pcars but Pcars will bring new and interesting cars as well--seeing as I enjoy the older forms of racing-----30s to 60s----I really think I'm in a niche in a niche and don't really expect to be catered to---lol

DRAGON

The important part of your post is about enjoyment. Sometimes think that gets overlooked in sim racing.

[ermo]

Originally Posted by pez2k

SMS' interaction with the community here after Shift 2 is a large part of why I joined WMD, to be honest. If they were willing to personally spend that much time answering questions and gathering bug reports despite being bound by NDAs and not even sure if they'd be allowed to patch, then they obviously had a genuine interest in the quality of their products and their fanbase. The impression that I got was of a company that, while of course proud of what it had produced, was frustrated at the shortcomings caused by imposed restrictions from the publisher. There were genuine reasons why they'd had to implement certain strange aspects like the sloppy setups, and it seemed that the Shift SMS wanted to make would have been a lot better than the Shift EA wanted to make. For that reason, I trusted SMS could and would make a better game on their own.

Well put. As I've written elsewhere, there is plenty of evidence that SMS were aiming for rFactor-like functionality (setups, upgrades) with the addition of AAA production values and a nice single-player career.

Originally Posted by pez2k

I originally joined up at Senior level because that was the most that I would be happy to write off as the price of a game and the unique experience of seeing it developed. Originally I had concerns about the game direction (would it be too dry to sell on consoles?), fundamental engine issues (the infamous input lag) and the ability of a new IP with no big publisher budget to attract big licenses (the first three of Gumpert, Ariel and Palmer were nice cars, but not exactly huge names). Fortunately all three were alleviated within a few months and I upgraded further as I now have the confidence that the game will indeed be a mass-market success.

I'm even considering buying more toolpacks now, the BMW license was a major score and any more on that scale would well demonstrate that SMS are seen by potential licensees as a major player on their own name, without needing someone like EA to back them up. That sort of recognition bodes well for all aspects of production, from attracting staff to working out retail publishing deals.

A good point as well. I continue to hold out hope that SMS will eventually gain a Porsche and a Ferrari license. Both brands have cars that would match up very well with what SMS are trying to do. Though it would appear that the whole Automaniax debacle has made much longer odds of a Porsche licensing agreement happening any time soon.

But either of those two licenses would be worth an expansion pack in and of itself, I should think. pCARS: Porsche Edition and pCARS: Ferrari Edition? Yes please.

Getting a VAG group license (Audi, Lamborghini, Seat, Volkswagen) would mesh with both Touring Cars (silhouette or production based), F3 as well as GT and Prototype racing. Don't know if it is possible, but one certainly hopes so.

(sorry for the OT, by the way)

[Pierre61]

Re MP: This was the answer last time I asked (DS = Dedicated Server)

"The DS will be independent. We will run at least one instance available for everyone, and anyone else with access to a public server (Linux, Windows or anything else capable of running Java) will be also able to run a DS and host games on the server for the community.

Each DS should be able to host many concurrent games (no exact estimates here yt, but it should really be limited only by the rebroadcaster's bandwidth).

From the game, you will just choose one of the running DS, connect to it and then play there (either create or join MP games hosted by the DS). Later we will add some kind of matchmaking (finding suitable games for you automatically) and more (league support, and so on)."

@ Wild Bill. It's not an either/or thing mate I'll be keeping my P&G, rF1 and GTL as well as pCars.

[pez2k]

Originally Posted by ermo

A good point as well. I continue to hold out hope that SMS will eventually gain a Porsche and a Ferrari license. Both brands have cars that would match up very well with what SMS are trying to do.

I think those two brands are probably a little too lofty for the moment, even the first-party Sony and Microsoft titles with their infinite budgets haven't managed to grab both. We can hope though!

Originally Posted by ermo

Getting a VAG group license (Audi, Lamborghini, Seat, Volkswagen) would mesh with both Touring Cars (silhouette or production based), F3 as well as GT and Prototype racing. Don't know if it is possible, but one certainly hopes so.

This is more the level I meant, securing even just an Audi license alone means that both of the existing Asano models can be made accurate, plus there's the R8 LMS to rival the Z4 GT3, and the Rob Austin A4 to go up against the 320si hybrid and Focus ST. Knowing SMS, we'd also probably end up with some great heritage model like one of the Auto Union Grand Prix racers, and an oddity like the Trans-Am 200.

[MaddmattH]

Porsche and Ferrari... I don't see it happening. Maybe RUF and something like that non-branded Ferrari that Simbin and Kunos managed to license.

Anyway I'm more interested in Audi and Aston Martin. McLaren and Mercedes would be awesome too but I imagine they're very expensive brands.

[Micas]

The licensing stuff really is frustrating. I'd love to see Porsche, Audi, Lamborghini, Ferrari, etc. Sometimes things just can't be done due to exclusive rights contracts and budget issues.

I think the game will be fun with the cars they do have, and if they can manage to snag a couple of those big names licenses, that would be a bonus. Hopefully they can get RUF though. I don't think SMS is done with car licensing yet, so we'll see what happens.

The BMW license is a big deal IMO, and it's going to be nice to see those cars in the game. I'm especially looking forward to the GT car.

[WildBill]

Thanks Pierre61 and believe me----it won't be either or---every title is selective in it's variety and range.

One thing I do hope is that whatever the modelling direction, I really hope the cars can work together and not a hodgepodge of cars like in Forza 4 or even to a lesser extent things like HistoricX which I consider to be excellent except certain cars are more like prima donnas where only a single make race will suffice.
Groupings of historical cars that ran together in period would be what I would like to see.

My bias IS for older cars and that's what I drive and have helped to create but modern is fine if it sparks my interest.

[edubz123]

+1 for a good variety and competitive match ups. While single makes are competitive, it's good to have some car variety on the podium. This has been raised to SMS, lets see how they respond.

[Dogzero1]

Originally Posted by MaddmattH

Porsche and Ferrari... I don't see it happening. Maybe RUF and something like that non-branded Ferrari that Simbin and Kunos managed to license.

Anyway I'm more interested in Audi and Aston Martin. McLaren and Mercedes would be awesome too but I imagine they're very expensive brands.

How about some Vauxhalls? Or Skoda's? In race car guise of course.

[alex291190]

Originally Posted by MaddmattH

Porsche and Ferrari... I don't see it happening. Maybe RUF and something like that non-branded Ferrari that Simbin and Kunos managed to license.

Anyway I'm more interested in Audi and Aston Martin. McLaren and Mercedes would be awesome too but I imagine they're very expensive brands.

Which non branded Ferrari, out of interest?

[redi]

Originally Posted by Dogzero1

How about some Vauxhalls? Or Skoda's? In race car guise of course.

Don't those race in the BTCC or something?

[pez2k]

The old S2000 Vauxhall Vectra still runs with an NGTC engine, and Thorney are having a rather troubled run in their new NGTC Insignia. A Skoda Octavia on the other hand was planned by one team but didn't pan out.

Originally Posted by alex291190

Which non branded Ferrari, out of interest?

The Pininfarina P4/5 Competizione commissioned and owned by James Glickenhaus. His original P4/5 is a retro body on an Enzo, whereas the Comp. is based on an F430 roadcar upgraded to GT2 or GT3 spec, running in the E1-XP class of the VLN.

[edubz123]

AJ (SMS' Tyre modeler) commenting on LFS' FFB/tyre model:

I would agree with that to an extent, and have posted as such a while back on LFS forums. Their model has the most self-consistent feel through the whole behavior regime amongst the 'sims' that I've played...including nKp, rF2, and iR. However, in that low slip angle range where 'bite' (on asphalt) tends to live, and where "smooth and tidy" race driving spends most of the time, LFS feels too spongy and even rF1 feels better. So for immersion and overall qualitative purposes, and showing off to new people what a sim can do, I like LFS best so far. But for 'practice', 'staying sharp', and 'serious league' purposes, I like LFS almost least (and probably rF2 best -- although to be honest, rF1 w/ realfeel, with the right mods, is still pretty close so long as you stay in the smooth-and-tidy regime). LFS is just too spongy and forgiving of mistakes still within "smooth and mostly tidy", even though LFS handles the transient grip problem the best (so far as I can tell, LFS does not have the transient grip problem).

This is what makes me confident pCARS will be a serious contender in the Tyres+Physics+FFB category in the end. They know and respect the current and historical competition and are aiming to be best-of-the-best.

[NWRAP_Golly]

Just upgraded to Full Member... woot!
Now if only I can play in 1920 x 1080 I would be wrapped, for some reason its choosing my 19inch res of 1440 x 900 as max settings, but doesnt recognise the 42inch.

[triskele10]

st

Originally Posted by Gollum

Just upgraded to Full Member... woot!
Now if only I can play in 1920 x 1080 I would be wrapped, for some reason its choosing my 19inch res of 1440 x 900 as max settings, but doesnt recognise the 42inch.

You have to set the 42" as the first and the 19" as the second monitor in the driver settings.

[NWRAP_Golly]

Ingame ? As every other game I have I can set it up as windowed and put it on my large screen. My displays are set up correctly, just the game wont let me choose it for some reason.. weird

[edubz123]

no, I think he means in the Nvidia/AMD driver (not in game).

I think in Windows when you click on "Identify Monitors" you should see a big "1" on your 42" monitor and the other one should display a large "2"

[NWRAP_Golly]

Got it, yeah other games it doesnt require it to put it on the 42, but this does. Thanks for that edubz. Now in full glory... woot!!

[KXracer]

Originally Posted by TICTOC

What's WMD?

WMD

[max attack]

Love the weekly updates, Can't wait for the the week that brings us some dirt or gravel.

[SternRav0R]

Originally Posted by max attack

Love the weekly updates, Can't wait for the the week that brings us some dirt or gravel.

By dirt or gravel you mean off road tracks for say... Rally. Well those will not be in pCARS initial release. That aspect of pCARS was shelved for later. Probably an expansion pack(DLC).... maaaaybe.

[max attack]

Originally Posted by SternRav0R

By dirt or gravel you mean off road tracks for say... Rally. Well those will not be in pCARS initial release. That aspect of pCARS was shelved for later. Probably an expansion pack(DLC).... maaaaybe.

That would be a DLC I would be very happy to pay for.

[Andy81]

Originally Posted by edubz123

AJ (SMS' Tyre modeler) commenting on LFS' FFB/tyre model:

I would agree with that to an extent, and have posted as such a while back on LFS forums. Their model has the most self-consistent feel through the whole behavior regime amongst the 'sims' that I've played...including nKp, rF2, and iR. However, in that low slip angle range where 'bite' (on asphalt) tends to live, and where "smooth and tidy" race driving spends most of the time, LFS feels too spongy and even rF1 feels better. So for immersion and overall qualitative purposes, and showing off to new people what a sim can do, I like LFS best so far. But for 'practice', 'staying sharp', and 'serious league' purposes, I like LFS almost least (and probably rF2 best -- although to be honest, rF1 w/ realfeel, with the right mods, is still pretty close so long as you stay in the smooth-and-tidy regime). LFS is just too spongy and forgiving of mistakes still within "smooth and mostly tidy", even though LFS handles the transient grip problem the best (so far as I can tell, LFS does not have the transient grip problem).

This is what makes me confident pCARS will be a serious contender in the Tyres+Physics+FFB category in the end. They know and respect the current and historical competition and are aiming to be best-of-the-best.

You seem to be seeing things beyond the written word there. The guys talking about grip levels of other games. But didn't mention C.A.R.S. once. I don't see how you can make statements on C.A.R.S. when the guy is talking about what he sees with other games.
Unless of course there's some context i'm missing, and that you havn't posted?

[redi]

Originally Posted by Andy81

You seem to be seeing things beyond the written word there. The guys talking about grip levels of other games. But didn't mention C.A.R.S. once. I don't see how you can make statements on C.A.R.S. when the guy is talking about what he sees with other games.
Unless of course there's some context i'm missing, and that you havn't posted?

AJ's quote was in the context of discussing pCARS's tyre model and how it should behave, there's a whole thread about it that this quote was taken out of. The quoted examples of other sims were serving as examples of what and what not to aim for in pCARS

[SwiftyOne]

Nice to see a thread about pCARS that has not ended in a slagging match Nice one Micas.. Oh! and I can't put into words why I like pCARS, all of the above really, can't add or subtract, well, maybe add that, It's sooo ***King good for Pre-Alpha, were else for £8.00 (10euro) can you get this much fun?

[Kazumi]

Originally Posted by Andy81

You seem to be seeing things beyond the written word there. The guys talking about grip levels of other games. But didn't mention C.A.R.S. once. I don't see how you can make statements on C.A.R.S. when the guy is talking about what he sees with other games.
Unless of course there's some context i'm missing, and that you havn't posted?

- True. He don't and can't know most (if any) other programs code. It's also hard to describe in how something feels. Ones spongy is another ones rubber. In the end a lot of grip / tire feel depends on the vehicle itself, not to mention the drivers driving style

Still of course researching racing sims can be valuable, even just by driving.

- He most likely mentioned pCars in some of his other posts though, as he works for SMS.

[Headsoup]

I like that for all the issues, changes, ups and down this ambitious model of development is actually working.

There are going to be people to whom the game just doesn't 'click,' people who find it doesn't live up to their expectations, people who just lose interest along the way etc, but for all of this the project is looking to be a success and I hope it encourages other developers to give this model a go.

It's refreshing to see the staff be involved and direct, and especially, also being themselves. Sure they might get pissed off on occasion and sometimes even say the wrong thing, but they're not marketing execs, they say what they believe (whether it ends up going that way or not) and you can see their passion in making this project work.

I hope no one wishes this project fails. Regardless of whether the game itself fits everyone's tastes or expectations, the success of the project can only be a good thing for game development going forward, and will send a warning to the publishers that they don't necessarily have to run the show

Plus those involved get to share the spoils at the end.

Yeah this post is full of positivity, but I think we sometimes need to forget our feelings about the content itself and realise what this project is doing and what the success of it means for us consumers.

[edubz123]

I appreciate that Ian/SMS are sticking to their vision as best they can. Gears raised some quotes from Ian about some great ideas but then reality kicked in and some feel we may be short on some of those original aspirations but I think the guy/team is trying their best to stick to the spirit of those conversations from over a year ago. Sure we don't own "shares" or whatever but there's still a "return" we can speak of as notInvestors.

In finance there's something called The Law of One Price.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_one_price

Basically it means that you can have 2 securities with different names or whatever but as long as they produce the same CASHFLOW, they will be priced identically. So in this WMD project we don't own "shares" but we are still signed up to receive some cashflows from sales revenue. So due to the Law of One Price we can think of these "SMS bucks" (or whatever you will) as virtual-shares. I think the legal stuff got in the way but Ian is trying his best to stick to the vision. I don't feel like he/they pulled a fast one on me in any way, we're all figuring it out as we go along this new path together. The risks are shared as are the rewards and there's a collective decision making. I'm very happy to be a part of this ground-breaking model. The old model (customer-->publisher-->developer) wasn't working for me.

Even if pCARS comes out only half-way-decent the project will be deemed a success because we're really trying to validate the model, for me the actual software is secondary to all this. You get the model right and the magic happens much easier on the next round.

[Hired Goon]

It's an amazing project and I'm just happy to be a small part of it. It's entertaining to simply observe the design process exposed on the WMD forums, and to see the devs take the feedback from users to shape and refine the game. Like others, I so look forward to the Friday updates.

I love GTR2 and pretty much all of Simbin's work but I hardly ever fire it up since PCARS has evolved so nicely.

I'm confident that whatever weak areas the title may have will be improved upon as you can clearly see how passionate these guys are about building the game.

My personal wish is to have the licenses include as many of the ALMS cars as possible. Love F1 but often find it hard to stay awake for a full race. ALMS is bloody riveting from start to finish.

[MaddmattH]

BMW Z4 GT3 should be in next week

Early, unfinished, but we'll be able to drive it.

[max attack]

Originally Posted by MaddmattH

BMW Z4 GT3 should be in next week

Early, unfinished, but we'll be able to drive it.

Are you teasing us...

[CorvusCorax]

I was most happy to hear about the Ginetta license deal as they fit in quite nicely with the announced but not yet developed/shown MSV tracks (also they are made near here so anything which boosts the brand can only be good for the local economy ).

The BMWs and Fords are also nice, expecially the BTCC cars

[Grüne Hölle]

I can recommend Pcars to anyone who's interested in serious sim-racing. I've been simracing for so many years now (i'm 45 btw) and i've driven nearly all the racing-sims over the years. And i can say that Pcars is one of the best. And they are still working hard to make it even better. It reminds me of the times when SimBin modded the GT-Mod for F1 Challenge 99-02. True passion! Especially "Nordschleife" is a blast. And kicking the Lotus Renault 98T around the track is frightening. Like "Hired Goon" said if you stick your nose into it, the other sims are almost forgotten.
period!

[renard]

One of the things I like about pCARS is the AI, I just did a FFord race at Donington National and going into the final lap the guy in P2 was hassling me for the lead, so going into Redgate I braked a little later than I had been doing and the guy behind went in too quick and had a little "gravel moment" leaving me to win by 3 seconds. Pure coincidence? Perhaps but it made me chuckle.

I usually tweak the AI to the settings someone suggested on the forum but this build I left them at the default ('cos I'm lazy!). I tried a Kart race and the AI were mental, but in the FFords and the R500s they rock!

[Spinelli]

Originally Posted by Grüne Hölle

I can recommend Pcars to anyone who's interested in serious sim-racing. I've been simracing for so many years now (i'm 45 btw) and i've driven nearly all the racing-sims over the years. And i can say that Pcars is one of the best.

LOL ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Whatever you're smoking, I want some.

Project cars at the moment is fun for casual racers or for people who like car racing video games and want something with some semi-realistic qualities instead of overly crazy arcade, and NOT for people who want the most realistic, hardcore experience they can get with regards to driving a racing car in a high performance environment, or if they do some racing in real life and want to keep sharp and use the sim as a training tool.

For anyone into "serious sim-racing" as you say, the ones that simulate chassis, tyre and overal vehicle dynamics BY FAR in the most complex and overal realistic manner are:

- Game Stock Car 2012
- Netkar Pro
- RFactor 1 (certain extremely technically detailed mods for it)

and for the future:

- RFactor 2 (after playing rFactor 2 even in current alpha or beta or whatever it is state, I cant even go back to any of my above 3 mentioned games or iracing which I was a subscriber of, but not anymore)
- Assetto Corsa

Project cars in terms of pure driving dynamics doesnt even come CLOSE to the above, not even close, and I am pretty sure that fact is widely regarded in the community as that.

Perhaps you have a difficult time analysing and/or "feeling" chassis behaviour and overall vehicle dynamics physics for you to come to such a conclusion.

Dont get me wrong, for a "semi realistic racing video game" its pretty damn good.