Why I Like pCARS

[max attack]

Originally Posted by Grüne Hölle

I can recommend Pcars to anyone who's interested in serious sim-racing. I've been simracing for so many years now (i'm 45 btw) and i've driven nearly all the racing-sims over the years. And i can say that Pcars is one of the best. And they are still working hard to make it even better. It reminds me of the times when SimBin modded the GT-Mod for F1 Challenge 99-02. True passion! Especially "Nordschleife" is a blast. And kicking the Lotus Renault 98T around the track is frightening. Like "Hired Goon" said if you stick your nose into it, the other sims are almost forgotten.
period!

I agree with you mate. I'm glad you like it. The builds just keep getting better and better.


PS: Don't worry about the nay sayers who really have no idea about what they are talking about.

[Spinelli]

Originally Posted by max attack

I agree with you mate. I'm glad you like it. The builds just keep getting better and better.


PS: Don't worry about the nay sayers who really have no idea about what they are talking about.

Lol ya almost the entire sim community doesnt know what they are talking about, project cars' vehicle dynamics modeling is on par with Game Stock Car 2012, Netkar Pro, Iracing and ESPECIALLY rFactor 2, LOL You are honestly out of your mind and SEVERELY SEVERELY biased if you think that or you are just simply highly uneducated and or unqualified on the subject I'f you honestly think that.

Read any other thread in this or any other forum site and you will realize how wrong you are. I have no idea how you can't just figure that out for yourself from simply driving the thing but to each his own I guess Lol.

I mean even most die hard pcars' fans acknowledge that pcars' weakest area by far, especially when compared to "true" sims like the ones mentioned above is easily the physics.

[max attack]

Originally Posted by Spinelli

, LOL You are honestly out of your mind and SEVERELY SEVERELY biased if you think that or you are just simply highly uneducated and or unqualified on the subject I'f you honestly think that.
.

Have you tried pcars in the last couple of weeks? Be honest please.

Uneducated and or unqualified are those who have not tried pcars but swear its no good.

[NWRAP_Golly]

Build 296 is getting better
Like the new menu system. Mind u when I select a different car it doesnt show up in the menu.

[NWRAP_Golly]

Double post...damn smart phone

[RMi Release Group]

Originally Posted by Gollum

Build 296 is getting better
Like the new menu system. Mind u when I select a different car it doesnt show up in the menu.

add -use3dscene to your exe shortcut

[max attack]

Are you saying the car you pick ends up on the menu page if you do that?
I would be very happy if it does...

[redi]

Originally Posted by Spinelli

Lol ya almost the entire sim community doesnt know what they are talking about, project cars' vehicle dynamics modeling is on par with Game Stock Car 2012, Netkar Pro, Iracing and ESPECIALLY rFactor 2, LOL You are honestly out of your mind and SEVERELY SEVERELY biased if you think that or you are just simply highly uneducated and or unqualified on the subject I'f you honestly think that.

Read any other thread in this or any other forum site and you will realize how wrong you are. I have no idea how you can't just figure that out for yourself from simply driving the thing but to each his own I guess Lol.

I mean even most die hard pcars' fans acknowledge that pcars' weakest area by far, especially when compared to "true" sims like the ones mentioned above is easily the physics.

Could you please stay out of personal insults if you don't agree with an opinion?

For sure pCARS isn't finished in the physics and vehicle dynamics department and quite a few things need improvement, but that's because there's still a long development time ahead. There is, however, a subtle difference between a game that is not a simulation and a simulation that needs to be improved in certain areas .

The realism/hardcore/sim discussion is a never-ending story, and revolves heavily around expectations, experience, biases and preconceptions. I've read some interesting opinions on hardcore sims lately, and it seems to me that if a sim doesn't get it right (yet) and sits at the perceived 'easy' side of realism, it's arcade or simcade, while another sim that doesn't get it right either but is more difficult than reality is regarded a true or hardcore sim. That's quite an odd difference IMHO. And that's not even touching the subject of what 'realistic' is, and who decides that and based on what criteria.

[Roger]

Originally Posted by Spinelli

Lol ya almost the entire sim community doesnt know what they are talking about, project cars' vehicle dynamics modeling is on par with Game Stock Car 2012, Netkar Pro, Iracing and ESPECIALLY rFactor 2, LOL You are honestly out of your mind and SEVERELY SEVERELY biased if you think that or you are just simply highly uneducated and or unqualified on the subject I'f you honestly think that.

Read any other thread in this or any other forum site and you will realize how wrong you are. I have no idea how you can't just figure that out for yourself from simply driving the thing but to each his own I guess Lol.

I mean even most die hard pcars' fans acknowledge that pcars' weakest area by far, especially when compared to "true" sims like the ones mentioned above is easily the physics.

Have a read of the special rules for this section please. This post does nothing constructive.

[RMi Release Group]

Originally Posted by max attack

Are you saying the car you pick ends up on the menu page if you do that?
I would be very happy if it does...

yes

[zaril]

Originally Posted by Spinelli

LOL ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Whatever you're smoking, I want some.

Uno spinello .... trollone!!!

[Spinelli]

Originally Posted by max attack

Have you tried pcars in the last couple of weeks? Be honest please.

Uneducated and or unqualified are those who have not tried pcars but swear its no good.

Yes I have tried it physics feel overly simplified, overly forgiving, overly un-sensitive to user inputs, throttle techniques, brake technique, steering technique, adjusting a cars balance during the different phases of a corner with regards to your brake, throttle and wheel inputs, car doing weird slight side to aide gliding stuff that goes back to Shift 1 physics, I can go on and on.

Some person on another website said it best, he (or maybe she) said that instead of the base project cars physics feeling like a true sim, but just one that needs work and is un-finished (like how different builds and versions of Netkar Pro, rFactor 2 and probably the different internal builds of assetto corsa felt/feel like), it instead feels like an arcade or simcade based game where the developers are editing the numbers in the physics parameters and other files and try to transform it into a sim, and that is a HUGE difference from using a proper engine from the beginning as your softwares base code/base engine.

[maeckie]

why i like pcars ?

the tracks ,,, the tracks !!

was away from it for half a year and it gives a great perspective on the development, i think.
they´re doing a great job !

coming from gtl, their bathurst is a dream, the nordschleife is growing and growing (yes they´re making it !!) , as are many other famous tracks. i like +1 !

[yetisaj]

Originally Posted by maeckie

the tracks ,,, the tracks !!

their bathurst is a dream, the nordschleife is growing and growing (yes they´re making it !!) , as are many other famous tracks. i like +1 !

Their tracks do look great in their render engine but their Le Mans is still a mess in my opinion. So much of the track is wrong.

[Kazumi]

Originally Posted by Spinelli

Some person on another website said it best, he (or maybe she) said that instead of the base project cars physics feeling like a true sim, but just one that needs work and is un-finished (like how different builds and versions of Netkar Pro, rFactor 2 and probably the different internal builds of assetto corsa felt/feel like), it instead feels like an arcade or simcade based game where the developers are editing the numbers in the physics parameters and other files and try to transform it into a sim, and that is a HUGE difference from using a proper engine from the beginning as your softwares base code/base engine.

Feeling can be wrong though as (at least in the first builds) it's completely the opposite

Of course all fudging feels (performs) wrong from a purely physical point of view, that's just the nature of things.

[Kazumi]

Originally Posted by yetisaj

Their tracks do look great in their render engine (...)

Yes...

[David Wright]

It is so sad that fans of some sims feel the need to attack other sims. Religion wars as Kunos puts it.

Please grow up guys.

[Chronus]

There never were "religion wars" in simracing - that's an absurd idea that tries to compartmentalize people in shades (this sim, that sim, that other sim).

All that is happening is all that ever happened: people discover Sim A and say it's the best and all others are pork poo. Then, the same people move on and discover Sim D, and suddenly this sim is better than all others (including Sim A). Then, the same people happen to stumble upon this other Sim F, all very well served with its hype-machine, and suddenly believe that sim is the best and all others are dog poo (including previous passions Sim A and Sim D).

Never was about religion. Human beings tend to stay with a religious faith/belief for a very long time. Only a crisis makes them turn away from that religion and dive into another.

With sims, it is only a matter of following a mass of people. Then peer pressure and the need to belong to that mass do the rest. When that mass discovers something new, its members follow it blindly. Then, asserting one's choices becomes key in attacking others and their choices.

One other thing. Never was about "fans of some sims", because right from the very beginning we have seen waves of people joining the cause of a sim and attack other people just because they see things differently. pCARS is as much victim of other racing sim fans as rF/GTR2/Race07/NKP/iRacing are victims of other racing sim fans.

My 2 cents.

[Hired Goon]

Build 296 is a turning point for FFB. A good time to try it out. Still isn't perfect but it's come a long way, and it's only getting better.

[max attack]

Originally Posted by Hired Goon

Build 296 is a turning point for FFB. A good time to try it out. Still isn't perfect but it's come a long way, and it's only getting better.

I agree.

[MaddmattH]

Originally Posted by Spinelli

Lol ya almost the entire sim community doesnt know what they are talking about, project cars' vehicle dynamics modeling is on par with Game Stock Car 2012, Netkar Pro, Iracing and ESPECIALLY rFactor 2, LOL You are honestly out of your mind and SEVERELY SEVERELY biased if you think that or you are just simply highly uneducated and or unqualified on the subject I'f you honestly think that.

Read any other thread in this or any other forum site and you will realize how wrong you are. I have no idea how you can't just figure that out for yourself from simply driving the thing but to each his own I guess Lol.

I mean even most die hard pcars' fans acknowledge that pcars' weakest area by far, especially when compared to "true" sims like the ones mentioned above is easily the physics.

Dude, it's not finished, give the guys a break. They're doing a whole new physics model so it's pointless being so harsh on the physics at the moment.

Current tyre model has issues with grip-slip transitions that can only be worked around with methods that cause other issues. New one is being internally tested and will be rolled out when ready.

[max attack]

I did a few laps at Cali raceway today. I was just having fun drifting in all corners and got it a bit too aggressive at times. Its now a ghost (@#2). I would hate to follow that ghost..

[Headsoup]

Originally Posted by Chronus

There never were "religion wars" in simracing - that's an absurd idea that tries to compartmentalize people in shades (this sim, that sim, that other sim).

All that is happening is all that ever happened: people discover Sim A and say it's the best and all others are pork poo. Then, the same people move on and discover Sim D, and suddenly this sim is better than all others (including Sim A). Then, the same people happen to stumble upon this other Sim F, all very well served with its hype-machine, and suddenly believe that sim is the best and all others are dog poo (including previous passions Sim A and Sim D).

Never was about religion. Human beings tend to stay with a religious faith/belief for a very long time. Only a crisis makes them turn away from that religion and dive into another.

With sims, it is only a matter of following a mass of people. Then peer pressure and the need to belong to that mass do the rest. When that mass discovers something new, its members follow it blindly. Then, asserting one's choices becomes key in attacking others and their choices.

One other thing. Never was about "fans of some sims", because right from the very beginning we have seen waves of people joining the cause of a sim and attack other people just because they see things differently. pCARS is as much victim of other racing sim fans as rF/GTR2/Race07/NKP/iRacing are victims of other racing sim fans.

My 2 cents.

Spinelli did all that in one post (#50): mentions the 'true sims' of NKPro/rF1 etc and then says he can't go back to them now because rF2 is better, with AC coming to rule them all (OK paraphrased a bit)

It really does seem though that for the most part, the FFB changes in b296 have been a huge step forward in general, with some tweaks to work on still.

Maybe we need more 'do you like X change' polls over there, because we need to see how the 'silent majority' are finding these changes, not just the most vocal posters...

[redi]

Originally Posted by Chronus

There never were "religion wars" in simracing - that's an absurd idea that tries to compartmentalize people in shades (this sim, that sim, that other sim).

All that is happening is all that ever happened: people discover Sim A and say it's the best and all others are pork poo. Then, the same people move on and discover Sim D, and suddenly this sim is better than all others (including Sim A). Then, the same people happen to stumble upon this other Sim F, all very well served with its hype-machine, and suddenly believe that sim is the best and all others are dog poo (including previous passions Sim A and Sim D).

I'm not completely following you there. First you say that it's bad to compartmentalize people in shades, but then you state that people basically have always been doing this compartmentalizing by themselves by joining 'sim X is best and the rest is poo' groups. The fact that some people may switch groups doesn't make it less of a beliefs battle to me.

(Personally I think that the term 'religion' is a bit of an ugly term in all of this, 'belief' at least to me sounds more neutral and avoids the link with life philosophy stuff.)

Originally Posted by Chronus

Never was about religion. Human beings tend to stay with a religious faith/belief for a very long time. Only a crisis makes them turn away from that religion and dive into another.

With sims, it is only a matter of following a mass of people. Then peer pressure and the need to belong to that mass do the rest. When that mass discovers something new, its members follow it blindly. Then, asserting one's choices becomes key in attacking others and their choices.

One other thing. Never was about "fans of some sims", because right from the very beginning we have seen waves of people joining the cause of a sim and attack other people just because they see things differently. pCARS is as much victim of other racing sim fans as rF/GTR2/Race07/NKP/iRacing are victims of other racing sim fans.

My 2 cents.

I don't think that you can dismiss the comparison to religious fanaticism just because people tend to switch race sims more easily. There still are people who stick with their favourite race sim no matter what, so it certainly applies to them.

Furthermore, the fact that people defend their own peer group and castigate people from other groups, revere the maker(s) of their fav race sim and venture into personal attacks and libel of other sims' makers and of people not sharing their belief in what is the best race sim has all the tell-tale signs of of religious fanaticism. The only difference is that the personal attacks are not physical since we're talking about internet forums. But I bet that people would be burned at the stakes if given the chance

Of course all of that is not exclusive to religious faith but to just about any group-defining element. Recently it was shown that just dividing a group of colleagues into two groups by giving them differently coloured t-shirts already gave rise to rivalry and us-against-them sentiments. It's part of human nature and undoubtedly can be explained in a evolutionary context

And as stated previously, I prefer the term 'belief' instead of 'religion' in all of this.

[Chronus]

Never said compartmentalizing simracers is bad. I did say it is absurd.

It would be valid if those fighting these ridiculous "wars" were attached to one sim only - this is not the case, though.

Waves of people going from Sim A to Sim B doesn't mean ALL people, it does not compartmentalize people into Sim A or sim B either, because, as I explained, some of the people who so loudly voice their rage against this or that sim and their support for this or that sim have done so with multiple sims before.

I know many people like that in RD, here and at SimHQ.

That's the reason why I dismiss the "religion" approach. Religious beliefs are fundamentally more stable than "simracing beliefs". It is actually funny to see some people (not so few as that) posting the same kind of nonsense (almost copy&paste) year after year - the only thing that changes for them is the colour of the sim (er...I mean, the sim).

By viewing people as being for Sim A, or people as being for Sim B or people as being for Sim C, several clues as to why people react as they do are being disregarded.

There is, however, something that perhaps we should not overlook. These absurd wars are often promoted by developers themselves - the reasons are obvious.

[redi]

Originally Posted by Chronus

Never said compartmentalizing simracers is bad. I did say it is absurd.

It would be valid if those fighting these ridiculous "wars" were attached to one sim only - this is not the case, though.

Waves of people going from Sim A to Sim B doesn't mean ALL people, it does not compartmentalize people into Sim A or sim B either, because, as I explained, some of the people who so loudly voice their rage against this or that sim and their support for this or that sim have done so with multiple sims before.

I know many people like that in RD, here and at SimHQ.

That's the reason why I dismiss the "religion" approach. Religious beliefs are fundamentally more stable than "simracing beliefs". It is actually funny to see some people (not so few as that) posting the same kind of nonsense (almost copy&paste) year after year - the only thing that changes for them is the colour of the sim (er...I mean, the sim).

By viewing people as being for Sim A, or people as being for Sim B or people as being for Sim C, several clues as to why people react as they do are being disregarded.

Yes I got all that from your previous posting. I did respond to that that qualifying sim racer forum behaviour as 'religious' has many more sides to it than just the length of time spent in one camp and therefore could justify using the term. But apparently this temporal thing is the main defining element for you in the term 'religious'. That's fine of course, it's your opinion about the subject and may result in you finding this compartmentalizing an absurd idea.

To me, however, this temporal aspect is largely irrelevant and it's the behaviour towards other groups that is defining. And again, calling it 'religious' isn't that vital for me as that's equivalent to 'group think' to me anyway. You could call it 'hooliganistic' just as well.

Originally Posted by Chronus

There is, however, something that perhaps we should not overlook. These absurd wars are often promoted by developers themselves - the reasons are obvious.

Hmmm I'm not so sure about that. Of course a developer or publisher will promote his product by advertising its strengths, but that's not the same as 'promoting beliefs wars'. I have never seen a dev or publisher state "our sim is better than sim X" or "you're stupid if you play sim X instead of ours".

[Chronus]

The fundamental aspect is not time. The fundamental aspect is conviction. Time is the by-product of that.

Your opinion, yes, but saying the main element of what I said is "time" is little more than an attempt at weakening it. If you believe the term "religion" applies irrespective of these elements (conviction and time) then you miss the point (and as you stated, you "got all that" from my previous posting, so no point in repeating it).

Some of those "who so loudly voice their rage against this or that sim and their support for this or that sim" do it not on conviction, but as a reaction towards others convictions or preferences. Never was and never will be Sim A vs Sim B, but merely opinions about something against opinions about something.

I see we could be here discussing what is religion, what is conviction and probably other things sims related, but we will never see eye to eye on this matter.

In regards to developers: never said I read a developer state "you're stupid if you play sim X instead of ours". I don't see your need to take this to the extreme case - other than to try and prove "ah, as that is not the case and no developer said that, you're position is devoid of real substance".

Also, not all developers follow this "practice".

Promoting bad behaviour or these "wars" need not be done explicitly. Developers (again, some, not all) often perform comparisons between their products and products by other developers. Often, they will even engage on comparisons to past works they themselves produced/executed. Unfortunately, comparisons are not always just or based on truths - as long as they point out what is good about one's products and what is not so good or outright bad about other people's products, then it does the job and that is all that matters.

If the fans engage on deriding comments against other sims or fans of other sims, developers ought to diffuse the situation by asking people to focus on objective facts or preferably on the sim of their liking. However, what we see is (some) developers allowing that behaviour or, worse, participate in the fiesta with "well timed" articles/interviews/posts - after all, herd mentality can work in their favour by protecting them against "unfair" comparisons", "fair" comparisons", unwanted criticism or even bad reviews.

But hey, my opinion, for sure, no less valid than yours.

[kenpat]

Like yourself Chronus I remember many sim wars from the past, but I don't think any of them have involved theological and metaphysical debate, before Pcars came along.-

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by kenpat

Like yourself Chronus I remember many sim wars from the past, but I don't think any of them have involved theological and metaphysical debate, before Pcars came along.-

I've only been sim racing since 2007, but it may have to do with a relatively "new" generation of sim fans, like my self, that are more willing to delve into the abstract when debating which title is "best."

I am a bit frustrated at the moment. I have the latest build, but due to work and family obligations, I have not yet been able to test it out.

[edubz123]

"due to work and family obligations, I have not yet been able to test it out"

^we should start a club. I actually blew dust off my G27 2 days ago, haven't touched it since. Maybe tonight if God's on my side....ah who am I kidding?

[Chronus]

Originally Posted by kenpat

Like yourself Chronus I remember many sim wars from the past, but I don't think any of them have involved theological and metaphysical debate, before Pcars came along.-

Ah. LOL

You're spot on.

It seems pCARS is therefore very special in more ways than one.

--

In seriousness, many (I am one) are simply tired of these "sim wars" (I thought we had enough "wars" already: INTEL vs AMD, IE vs Firefox, Yahoo vs Google, Windows vs Linux). As it seems, people seem quite content with, out of the blue, just going on a rampage against other simracers and racing sims.

Me? As long as there're no insults, lies and defamation campaigns going on, I am all for good debates.

[Dogzero1]

Originally Posted by Chronus

The fundamental aspect is not time. The fundamental aspect is conviction. Time is the by-product of that.

Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalks us all our lives.

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by edubz123

"due to work and family obligations, I have not yet been able to test it out"

^we should start a club. I actually blew dust off my G27 2 days ago, haven't touched it since. Maybe tonight if God's on my side....ah who am I kidding?

HAHA!! Too true. My wheel stays clamped to my desk, slid off to one side but still plugged in. By time I get home I don't even have the motivation to move it 12 inches to the right to race! LMAO!!

[Chronus]

Originally Posted by brabham67

HAHA!! Too true. My wheel stays clamped to my desk, slid off to one side but still plugged in. By time I get home I don't even have the motivation to move it 12 inches to the right to race! LMAO!!

Would this be a better solution (as in motivational)?

Take whole setup to the lawn. You won't even have to enter the house.

Like this:



PS: don't forget the monitor and rig.

[brabham67]

Chronus, I have a pretty decent setup, desk based, but planning a "sim seat" to be constructed later in the fall. 3 screens and all. Maybe that will help.

Self employed, part time dad, no serious relationship at the moment, and still no time or motivation!!!

[Chronus]

Geez, brabham67, the last sentence seems taken out of a "single man looks for elegant lady" ad.

Seriously, though, I know what you mean (at the end of the day, at times there's little energy even for simracing). But that setup is a good idea, me thinks.

[edubz123]

early Xmas again today. Looks like they finally killed the Timer bug so everyone's lap times are the same regardless of CPU or overclocking etc.

[SwiftyOne]

Originally Posted by edubz123

early Xmas again today. Looks like they finally killed the Timer bug so everyone's lap times are the same regardless of CPU or overclocking etc.

Yep! which means I'm back in 1st with the ZondaR @ Harrison pike


Great stuff...Love this Sim to bits

Swifty

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by Chronus

Geez, brabham67, the last sentence seems taken out of a "single man looks for elegant lady" ad.

Never a bad moment for self promotion!!

[edubz123]

Originally Posted by SwiftyOne

Yep! which means I'm back in 1st with the ZondaR @ Harrison pike

Challenge accepted!

[Leper Messiah]

Originally Posted by Chronus

In seriousness, many (I am one) are simply tired of these "sim wars" (I thought we had enough "wars" already: INTEL vs AMD, IE vs Firefox, Yahoo vs Google, Windows vs Linux).

Don't forget the console wars SEGA v Nintendo, XBOX v Playstation.


And I can remember Commodore 64 v Spectrum 48k (ah the dear old speccie!) and Atari ST v Commodore Amiga.

[Chronus]

Indeed.

lol The dear old speccie was cause for much discussion in high school. Invariably, the spectrum 48k crowd always won (I wonder why...).

The nastiest "wars" were between inteliots and amd-zealots, especially at sharkyforums, almost a decade ago. Really really nasty there, with guys working for INTEL and guys working for AMD (and everybody else yahoowing or googling cpu architecture stuff, eh) spewing venom post after post...Good'ol times...

Maybe pCARS can help pacify things within simracingdom.

[SwiftyOne]

Originally Posted by edubz123

Challenge accepted!

GO,GO,GO,...IF you can
What user name?


Swifty

[edubz123]

"Umer Ahmad"

Man, just when I thought this game couldn't get any better looking, they boost the vehicle IBL and now the "Clear5" weather screenshots look about 20% better than anything we've seen so far.

[max attack]

"Clear5" you say. Can't wait to check that out edubz. Thanks for the heads up.

[SwiftyOne]

HaHa "Umer Ahmad"? No way ...Well Hi

[Sabbath]

Build 296 of pCARS is looking better and better. The ai are still mess up tho. I play it with a logitech g27 the sweet spot for me is my D of R is 380 to 390. Win it is don it is going to be one cool sim.

[edubz123]

You should keep DofR = 900 (both in game and in Logi Profiler) and use the Steering Ratio slider to adjust the steering speed. This slider is in the setup menu for each car.

Also, best to keep Steering Sensitivity = 50 (100% linear) in the Controller setup menu.

Also, they are making some progress in the AI department. Here's the note from today:

"We've got a first pass in now of route changes based on avoidance and passing. What this means is the AI can see ahead of where its planning to drive and if there is a point in space where it's going to intersect with another vehicle, player or AI, it will adjust its path according to rules..."

[Sabbath]

Originally Posted by edubz123

You should keep DofR = 900 (both in game and in Logi Profiler) and use the Steering Ratio slider to adjust the steering speed. This slider is in the setup menu for each car.

Also, best to keep Steering Sensitivity = 50 (100% linear) in the Controller setup menu.

Also, they are making some progress in the AI department. Here's the note from today:

"We've got a first pass in now of route changes based on avoidance and passing. What this means is the AI can see ahead of where its planning to drive and if there is a point in space where it's going to intersect with another vehicle, player or AI, it will adjust its path according to rules..."

Good stuff i well try that thanks.

[jucke]

Why i like Pcars? Because of M1 And latest builds ffb & physics begin finally to be at quite good shape. Still needs lots of work of course but for pre-alpha, it's not bad at all. Actually i play only Pn'G more than this nowadays...