This really sucks!!

[wombat666]

Quote:A legal inquiry from Porsche has forced Enduracers to call of the public release of their much anticipated Porsche GT3 Cup Series mod for rFactor.

The team released a short statement, confirming that the release has been cancelled due to legal reasons:

"EnduRacers Modding Team is sorry to announce that after having been contacted by Porsche AG, the Porsche GT3 Cup Series mod project will not be released to the public. We thank you for your support during the development."

Possible legal trouble has always been looming over the modding community and it has been feared by many that big companies might take down mods for copyright infringement and in this case, it seems to have happened.

This is the first time a major automaker has gone after modders since Ferrari came cracking down on Batracer all the way back in 2009.

This is a real shame for the sim community as Enduracers are known to deliver top quality work that would have done Porsche’s excellent vehicle justice, sadly the rFactor community has now been robbed of what could have been the last big mod release for the simulation.Unquote

[max attack]

We will think twice about buying a porsche. Disgraceful behavior indeed.
I'm not even going to use a capital when spelling it any more.

[Copyright]

Well that sucks. The previews looked so good.

Don't blame Porsche, blame their legal team.

[GTR Dude]

I wouldn't be a damned bit surprised if Porsche even knows about this. This was probably bought-on by some Dipstick Lawyer who is on retainer from Porsche.

I hope this isn't true, because I've already started painting cars for this mod. If I have to flush what I've already done..... I'll probably piss on the next Porsche I see.

Hopefully someone with some common sense at Porsche will see how good this mod is and allow it to continue......

Then I can put it back in my pants.

[max attack]

Originally Posted by Copyright

Well that sucks.

Don't blame Porsche, blame their legal team.

Sadly, I can't agree. The legal team are directly employed by porsche. porsche still make poorsche decisions.
Unless you know something I don't. and its highly likely that you do.

[max attack]

Originally Posted by GTR Dude

I wouldn't be a damned bit surprised if Porsche even knows about this. This was probably bought-on by some Dipstick Lawyer who is on retainer from Porsche.

I hope this isn't true, because I've already started painting cars for this mod. If I have to flush what I've already done..... I'll probably piss on the next Porsche I see.

Hopefully someone with some common sense at Porsche will see how good this mod is and allow it to continue......

Then I can put it back in my pants.

Surely legal teams don't make decisions like this with out telling the client/boss's? I must be naive.

Who do they think they are? Ferrari

[Copyright]

Well it's not uncommon for companies to be unaware when their lawyers go after small-scale copyright infringement. I recall this happening a lot with McDonalds etc. I'm sure the CEO isn't informed everytime a cease-and-desist notice is sent to a highschool media student making using the wrong soundtrack on their Youtube uploads for instance.

[max attack]

Alrighty then, that makes sense to me. You turned me.

[Copyright]

Originally Posted by max attack

Alrighty then, that makes sense to me. You turned me.

Despite what my username might suggest, I am far from an expert

[GTR Dude]

Originally Posted by max attack

Surely legal teams don't make decisions like this with out telling the client/boss's? I must be naive.

Who do they think they are? Ferrari

I'm a Moderator at another site. One time we recieved a Cease and Desist order from a Lawyer because of a certain Company logo we had in our down-load section.
Many moons ago I used to be a Fabricator in Nascar, so I still have some contacts in the sport. After talking to some people, it turns out the people in that Company didn't have a clue what that Lawyer had done.

Hell, I remember when Cease and Desist orders were flying like crazy when First (Now iRacing) bought the rights from Papus for N2003. Those were some crazy times.

[tiptop]

You guys are late:
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=297867

[trotter2k]

that really sucks, just shows porsche can't use there marketing heads right.

[GTR Dude]

Originally Posted by trotter2k

that really sucks, just shows porsche can't use there marketing heads right.

That all depends on which head they are using at the moment.

[LeSunTzu]

Porsche sued shoe makers for the use of the name Cayman. They would have sued Barbara Carrera if they could, especially when she stole the show in that memorable Condorman movie despite Porsche's effort with a handful of badass 930s and 935.

As stupid as Porsche is with copyrights, Automaniax is probably behind that one.

[fisheracing]

Originally Posted by LeSunTzu

Porsche sued shoe makers for the use of the name Cayman.

Maybe Porsche will go after the Cayman Islands next...

[renard]

Originally Posted by fisheracing

Maybe Porsche will go after the Cayman Islands next...

[maeckie]

how can a company sue someone if no money is earned from it ?
this is just a mod made by enthusiastics .. idontgetit...

it gives porsche and other companies just bad reputation.....

to hell with real cars, long live sim-racing !!!!!

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by maeckie

how can a company sue someone if no money is earned from it ?

The holder of a trademark is obligated to go after anyone who infringes on that trademark. Even relatively benign infringement. If they don't, they risk loosing future cases against bigger and more malicious infringement. Remember the Ford vs. Ferrari thing? I have a feeling that the guys in Ford's legal department didn't like having to move against Ferrari, knowing it wouldn't look to good for them. But, in the end they had too.

One other thing to remember. Patents and Trademarks are only as strong as the holders ability to fight off infringement. I personally know people that have patented good ideas, only to loose them in protracted legal battles with bigger companies. Pretty messed up all around, imo.

[Jochem Hraback]

This company is disgusting

The mod is FREE. What is the problem ?!?!? Ahhh the customers like EA had to pay for the license...As fans have realized games much better that all these ****in shit of video game companies...The world moves along and comes much more very disgusting...

[M1GHTY M4VS]

Originally Posted by Jochem Hraback

This company is disgusting

The mod is FREE. What is the problem ?!?!?

nah don't blame the whole company, it is actual law enforcement from their department, it seems they protected the actual shape and could sue because they sold licences to various gaming companies. They probably didn't care if one of the respective companies told tales to them and forced them to do so. It wasn't a problem because it wasn't there market in the past. This changed unfortunately. But seeing that GSMF has the same cars out still feels weird. I hope Enduracers can come through with it tho. Just need a slip in the law papers. It may not be now but I would even love it if it comes out 2015.

[jgf]

This is typical of Porsche, they are quite draconian about licensing. Back in the eighties Revell was licensed to produce a specific model of a Porsche; when Porsche released a new, higher performance, version of that car, Revell retooled and released a model of the new car ...Porsche immediately hit them with a "cease and desist" order, stating their contract did not include the upgraded version.

[OhioSpeed]

Originally Posted by maeckie

how can a company sue someone if no money is earned from it ?
this is just a mod made by enthusiastics .. idontgetit...

it gives porsche and other companies just bad reputation.....

to hell with real cars, long live sim-racing !!!!!

I agree. It's being distributed freely. Nobody is making money off this. Where were there lawyers when the 956-962 released in the Prototype C mod which is was and will be alot more popular than this mod could have been.

[Capi]

This smells really bad.. Anyone else than me seeing a connection here?
Let me explain:


- Fanatec shows off some of their hardware in a video. In the video, they are using (confirmed by Fanatec) a game that has not yet been announced. The car is a Porsche Supercup-car, driving on Hockenheim.

- A new video shows up, now showing the GUI of the game. VirtualR does some research and posts this:

Originally Posted by VirtualR

The url on the GUI takes us to Automaniax, a website that offers little more than the possibility to leave an email-adress and a pretty Porsche background right now, along with the intriguing promise “Real Cars. Real Tracks.Real Motorsports.”.

After a bit of research, I stumbled across the following posted in the Rage3D forums:

Unfortunately, this is where the trail of info ends right now but that should be more than enough to get excited about the upcoming Automaniax title…..

(whole article: http://www.virtualr.net/automaniax-p...w-title-coming )


So it seems that Porsche has hired someone to make a game for them, including the cars from the Porsche Supercup.

- After a while, VirtualR then posts this up - seems the game is using the SMS pCARS-engine:

Originally Posted by VirtualR

After quite a while of silence, there have been plenty of news on the project today, most of it being of the rather worrying kind.

Earlier today, Automaniax released a first video trailer of their Porsche Online racing title. The trailer quickly caused a stir in the World of Mass Development forums as Slightly Mad Studios’ distinct graphical quality is easily visible from watching the trailer.

The release of the video did not just irritate the members but stunned the studio staff themselves as Automaniax Porsche Online is using the studios work without their permission as Ian Bell confirmed in the WMD members forum:

“We were in negotiations with Automaniax and the head of Porsche marketing some time back with a view to us creating a product for them. We delivered some work to them. The contracts were not signed, the agreed funds were not received and we stopped the work”, Ian Bell commented. “We’re stunned here to see our work appear there.”

As clearly visible in the trailer, Automaniax is using Slightly Mad Studios’ Madness engine and assets created by the studio to run and/or promote their product without proper contracts and permission in place.

This isn’t the first sign of problems over at Automaniax as VirtualR received a mail from people close to the project a while ago, suggesting that the whole effort is in financial trouble and might not see the light of day.

Has this led to the questionable decision of using the assets without proper permission in place, a decision that would be even more significant by the fact that Automaniax’s product is sporting the trusted Porsche name to attract customers – A proven name that auto and sim racing enthusiasts around the world put their trust into without thinking twice?

(whole article: http://www.virtualr.net/automaniax-p...-legal-trouble )

-Automaniax then shows up at the F1 German Grand Prix at Hockenheim, with a couple of rigs playing the Hockenheim-track and the Porsche Supercup-car.
Though it's supposed to be work by SMS being used illegally, it's using rFactor as a base at this point.
Automaniax denies in a brief statement that it's work done by SMS, and SMS says it is their work and that they are going to take legal advice.
Full article about all that here: http://www.virtualr.net/automaniax-p...sy-new-details

-Then, after a while of silence on the SMS/Automaniax war, Enduracers is forced by Porsche to drop their Porsche Cup Series mod.......



So yeah, all in all, it seems that Porsche wanted a game, containing the Porsche Supercup series, everything got messed up and now they are taking it out on the community Maybe they will eventually get this game made, and they fear that Enduracers mod will be much better - therefore getting it out of the way by using a copyright claim?

sorry for the slightly long post :p

[Jochem Hraback]

In all cases, the mod should be so good that the company believes that competition was useless! The best we can hope for the EnduRacers team is that they continue in this way!

[David Wright]

Originally Posted by Capi

This smells really bad.. Anyone else than me seeing a connection here?
.....

So yeah, all in all, it seems that Porsche wanted a game, containing the Porsche Supercup series, everything got messed up and now they are taking it out on the community Maybe they will eventually get this game made, and they fear that Enduracers mod will be much better - therefore getting it out of the way by using a copyright claim?

The connection with Automaniax has been made more than once, not least by Enduracers.

Car manufacturers do not usually decide they want to make a computer game. The usual scenario is a game developer (or their publisher) approaches a car manufacturer for a license.

The most likely scenario is that Automaniax, having obtained the Porsche license, saw the Enduracers mod as a commercial threat and asked Porsche to enforce their license agreement.

[Capi]

Originally Posted by David Wright

The connection with Automaniax has been made more than once, not least by Enduracers.

Car manufacturers do not usually decide they want to make a computer game. The usual scenario is a game developer (or their publisher) approaches a car manufacturer for a license.

The most likely scenario is that Automaniax, having obtained the Porsche license, saw the Enduracers mod as a commercial threat and asked Porsche to enforce their license agreement.

You are absolutely right David, apologies for getting it turned around.
I wrote it while being pretty tired hehe.


(off-topic: you still racing in leagues? or am i confusing you with someone else?)

[David Wright]

Originally Posted by Capi

(off-topic: you still racing in leagues? or am i confusing you with someone else?)

You are confusing me with someone else David Wright is a common name - at school I was once in a class with another David Wright.

[dartguy]

Originally Posted by OhioSpeed

I agree. It's being distributed freely. Nobody is making money off this. Where were there lawyers when the 956-962 released in the Prototype C mod which is was and will be alot more popular than this mod could have been.

Nobody is makng money off this, is correct. But porsche could lose money if the free mod is better than the automaniass game, which we know is very likely.

With that said, I bet that any money that porsche could make from a licensed game would be much less than they would make from the thousands of young men groing up driving their cars in sims and faling in love with them. Eventially these young men will have the income to buy their dream cars.

Hopefully their dream cars are not porsches anymore.

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by dartguy

Hopefully their dream cars are not porsches anymore.

This would never stop me from owning or buying a Porsche, if I had the money to do so of course.

While I agree that it sucks, Porsche is doing what they are obligated to do, protecting their trademark. If they don't, then this particular incident would set a nasty precedent for them in future trademark infringement cases.

[LeSunTzu]

Originally Posted by dartguy

Nobody is makng money off this, is correct. But porsche could lose money if the free mod is better than the automaniass game, which we know is very likely.

With that said, I bet that any money that porsche could make from a licensed game would be much less than they would make from the thousands of young men groing up driving their cars in sims and faling in love with them. Eventially these young men will have the income to buy their dream cars.

Hopefully their dream cars are not porsches anymore.

I doubt very much racing games is a big factor in a buy decision for a street car. There are plenty of other reasons why guys buy street Porsches than racing fame, including the most notorious one.

[David Wright]

Originally Posted by dartguy

Nobody is makng money off this, is correct. But porsche could lose money if the free mod is better than the automaniass game, which we know is very likely.

With that said, I bet that any money that porsche could make from a licensed game would be much less than they would make from the thousands of young men groing up driving their cars in sims and faling in love with them. Eventially these young men will have the income to buy their dream cars.

Hopefully their dream cars are not porsches anymore.

Licenses are usually a fixed price - Porsche will not lose any money if the game bombs.

And they don't have to worry about the thousands of young men who might miss out on the Enduracers mod - there are millions of young men driving their cars in Need For Speed and Forza. If they really saw computer games as a marketing tool they would put them in Gran Turismo too which also sells by the million.

While mods are huge in our little world here at NoGrip, in the real world they don't register. I'm pretty sure that's why Codies have not asked Bernie and Co. to take any action against F1 mods. I can only assume Automaniax are making a PC only game which is why the mod was seen as some kind of commercial threat.

[Spike]

Kind of a stupid decision as it would've been free advertising for them. Isn't the first time a manufacturer or race team has threatened legal action against racing sim modders and probably won't be the last.