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Unread 30 September 16, 17:30   #51
TheNewBob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobwilliams View Post
Hey NewBob (my V.2 brother ),

I really appreciate your intention!

If you ever happen to stumble upon your wav files, keep em stocked in a cozy place (), since I might also need your help to recreate from a good basis the (splendid) Ferrari 360 Challenge soundtra... er, engine note.

Or... you meant you had tucked away the 360 GT wav files?
My name isn't actually Bob - username is entirely random! I'm not so sure exactly which type of 360 the sound is from, I would say its more likely to be the challenge than the GT.

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Originally Posted by bobwilliams View Post
Have you ever heard the sound a racing 360 Modena Challenge on a racetrack? Perhaps the most sublime sounds I ever heard coming from a car.
I love these berlinettas.

I'm lucky to have attended many of the italian 360 Challenge races back in the years 2001-2002! Ah, quel joye!
The Ferrari Challenge supported FIA GT at Donington in 2004, and possibly 2006 at Silverstone too. Also had a few derivatives in British GT around that time. I much preferred the 360 over the 430, but I also prefer the sheer noise of the N-GT/GT2 version of the 360 over the challenge car (on similar lines the 458 GTE sounds simply incredible - especially through the trees at Brands Hatch!)
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Unread 3 October 16, 11:13   #52
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Default A paper to learn how to enhance the Extreme Supension data in GTR2!

Thanks NewBob, all the help is appreciated!

Aaand... coming to the suspension factor, which is causing me many doubts and problems of interpretation (somehow the data shown in the GTR2 garage menu on the dampers doesn't seem to be comparable to the one made available to me by the Extreme Suspension engineer), after a bit of study, this sunday, I came to the conclusion there is no easy solution but a deep analysis of the bound/rebond effect on the suspension (dampers, I meant) and the consequences of this... Simply put, there are many areas to which light must be shed (I only hope not to end like any Robespierre ).

This basically because I am an utter ignorant on the matter of bump-rebound motion of a suspension, which always been a mistery to me; I completely ignored, in fact, how these affect the car and how these phenomena (plural of phenomena?) works, and all this until now: I can see it's time for me to uncover these 'setup misteries' if I want to translate the raw data of the Extreme Suspensions to GTR2 working settings.

That's why I promoted a brief paper! This, and also because I'm slightly insane.

After all, the good things will be a fully working 360 GT Extreme Shocks dampers and, perhaps, the knowledge of some interested nogrippers which are interested on the subject. Myself, I simply couldn't proceed with this work without a comprehensive, fully-compliant paper, which explains everything, step-by-step. Just call me 'tonto'.

Well, to make long things brief, in this very week I will seek the answers I'm looking for and constantly update the doc with the last information I found on the net (sadly my Scuola Federale CSAI racing course racedriver manual doesn't express a single word on the thing, so the internet is the only source left, I'm afraid.... unless some real racing engineers will stumble on the topic and read this)


Version 1: https://www.sendspace.com/file/cvauew

I'm off to get some data!

Last edited by bobwilliams; 4 October 16 at 08:32.
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Unread 7 October 16, 12:57   #53
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Default A suspension study: 2nd draft

Here it is the 2nd draft: https://www.sendspace.com/file/8dy5zf

My time hasn't been much these days, I can't promise the absence of typos and or major grammar disasters.
Furthermore the sources of information aren't much but the essential to know how the heck the suspension works it's there. Perhaps I might solve the Extreme Shock enigma in few weeks, let's hope so.

New researches awaits.

A big thanks to NewBob which sent a very high quality 360 Challenge engine soundfile, which will surely help me out in trying to deliver some resulsts in terms of sound fidelity. Thanks brotha.
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Unread 13 October 16, 11:01   #54
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Default Test Day #20: practical dimonstrations of the fast bump-rebump setup choices

Good afternoon to all the 'Ferraristi' (and not ),

I bring to thee some news.

First of all a brief report I've wrote yesterday night.

Ferrari 360 GT Reborn EVO shock absorber test at Magny Cours (2001 layout)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The aim of the test is fairly easy to describe: these laps were made to discover the theory applied to the fast bump and rebound stages of the suspensions.

Firstly, I proceeded by running 5-6 laps with a standard setup (fully out-of-the-garage setup just as I did until now), then, the second (very brief) stint was ran with -2 clicks both in the settings of fast bump and rebound. This just to check out if what I analyzed until now proved to be concretely true 'on track'.
This slight modification - in theory - could have allowed me a better management of the two high kerbs at located at the Chateau d'eau and Chicane corners. I was guessing that by cutting those two corners, I could've been as fast as I'd like to be being also more precise with the entrance of the very last corner before the start/finish line of the track.

RESULTS:

Impressive! By 'loosing' (imprecise term) by only two clicks (some NM actually) both the fast bump and fast rebound shock absorber settings, I discovered how can a ride be different when such values are changed 'cum grano salis' (with a grain of salt). Now the pre-modification excessively nervous behaviour shown while the car was driven on the kerbs (especially those of the two said corners!) has gone and has been replaced nicely, perhaps only by a minor body roll that affects the car while steering (body roll applied in the phases of weight latitudinal transfers), which translates into a bit less firm ride in terms of pure driving precision, but still, it is an interesting result since now those kerbs are easily managed as said. There is also a consequently major precision on the corner exit phase, just after the high kerbs are gone through.

I can confirm this is a very good result for such a specific test focused on both the FAST bump-rebound settings present in the (GTR2-Reborn) garage setup.
Of course, there is still the slow bump and rebound setting to put to test, but my time is limited, so, perhaps, it is better to focus on the current shock absorber research than running other (albeit fun) setting tests which can be delayed to a post-paper study.
This means I can declare the test-day successful and, especially, that the practice has fully confirmed the theory.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of you might observe I only 'invented the hot water' (like we say here in Italy) but at least, concede me my little victory for now I have my mind far more clearer than before, when it comes to discuss on the 'bump-rebound setup approach' subject.
This simple practical test will in fact allow me to proceed steadily into the direction of clarifying the unit of measurements/calculations applied when it comes down on the field of bump-rebound setup. One less difficulty on the path to translate our mistery.

Ah, a bit of a souvenir of that day. Almost forgot.




Perhaps the highest moment of Batti Pregliasco in the Magny Cours test.







Secondly, the very kind engineer at the EXTREME SHOX (a real company based in the north of Italy as said, formerly known as Extreme Tech - which produced the F360 GT suspensions back in the 2001-02) has offered help to translate the data he shared to the GTR2 equivalent - a thing that as many of you know it's driving me mad atm.

With all my current real-life obligations, I fear I will have to disturb him sooner than expected. (see below for more information). This although I would've really liked to fully learn the whole phenomenon (really, how many years lost sim-racing with GTR2 without any knowledge of what I now consider another fundamental pillar of car-setup! ). Well, thanks to him for his gratuitously offer of aid it's making our favourite sim better, although sadly none of the fans can still rejoice on the modifications.




Thirdly, and sadly, I am now involved in a cross-project going on between my university and a company involved in, well, a thing I like most.
To make long things short, I now have to create a video from scratch in two weeks. Luckily my master is practically over (except for the november thesis presentation) but I still have a part-time job (thanks God ), a messy house in which to shoot in few days, and a child and a wife (and, what's worst, they are both women ).

This means our JMB-Michelotto Project will be put on hold briefly. Just two weeks. Unless there is something more to do before november 25th (day in which I'll present the project I'm involved in ).




Fourthly, haven't I shared with you a video I've realised thanks to two friends of mine, didn't I?


Getcha later!
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Unread 31 October 16, 12:00   #55
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Default Back on the topic!

Hello boys,

this week-end I plan to finally come back working on the mod. I think there'll be some questions I will have to forward to our kind Extreme Shox engineer, in order to proceed straightforwardly to the next mod step: having the KONI suspensions enhanced in the car!


(In the meanwhile, these days, I will proceed by adding two important physic factors which the present testmule currently lacks - Thanks Chronus for having underlined these little but important details! )

After having solved the 'KONI suspension phase', I'll focus on the '360 GT soundtrack' : the more I listen to the real FiA 360 GT counterpart the more I realise the Grand Am version of the 2001 had somehow different manifold because its engine tune is sooo different that its european counterpart (and I see how the original GTR2 files are good already!). Perhaps limiting my work to realise a Grand-Am (louder manifold) 360 GT version might be the better choice (I know there is no Grand Am mod around here, but perhaps this might be of ispiration to other modders ). In that case the standard GTR2 360 N-GT sound would be only slightly modified for the better (having the help of my audio engineer brother would be magnificent ).


Then, we could carry on with the graphical side of the project (thanks LeGhoul!) and wait for Chronus work on the 360 N-GT 'artificially-imperfect(ed) gearbox unit'.

But, things first things, er, not just like that. Well you got the idea.



More news next week, have an excellent week until then.
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Unread 31 October 16, 12:05   #56
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Hi Bob. This is actually the first time i've read your 'blog' on your project It's really good that you've taken the time to explain the progress and the 'not as easy as it looks' approach. Still, with patience things eventually fall into place - the light bulb moment

I still run the SBDT F1 GT2002 mod with the 360 Challenge addon, and the conversion of the 360c mod to F1 99-02 - i never found a conversion to GTR1, i seem to recall 'Xzibit' may have produced one but not sure. If it does exist and anyone has it, i would be extremly grateful for a copy. The gearing problem existed beteween the F1 2002 360c and the F1 99-02 360c conversion. Even though the gearing values were the same, the actual usage was vastly different showing a direct conversion from f1 2002 to f1 99-02 often fails possibly from the underlying physic changes of F1 2002 and F1 99-02.

It's really interesting comparing the different handling of the same vehicles used in F1 2002, F1 99-02, GTR1, and GTR2 - even though they are made by the same devs. You would think that the handling would be similar or the same, which goes to show never take game marketing at face value, but rather - as your doing - pursue your own logic.

Give me a PM if you need any further assistance with getting the AI closer to where you would like them. I'll try to help in anyway i can.

Best Regards

Barry
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Unread 31 October 16, 13:05   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
Hi Bob. This is actually the first time i've read your 'blog' on your project It's really good that you've taken the time to explain the progress and the 'not as easy as it looks' approach. Still, with patience things eventually fall into place - the light bulb moment

I still run the SBDT F1 GT2002 mod with the 360 Challenge addon, and the conversion of the 360c mod to F1 99-02 - i never found a conversion to GTR1, i seem to recall 'Xzibit' may have produced one but not sure. If it does exist and anyone has it, i would be extremly grateful for a copy. The gearing problem existed beteween the F1 2002 360c and the F1 99-02 360c conversion. Even though the gearing values were the same, the actual usage was vastly different showing a direct conversion from f1 2002 to f1 99-02 often fails possibly from the underlying physic changes of F1 2002 and F1 99-02.

It's really interesting comparing the different handling of the same vehicles used in F1 2002, F1 99-02, GTR1, and GTR2 - even though they are made by the same devs. You would think that the handling would be similar or the same, which goes to show never take game marketing at face value, but rather - as your doing - pursue your own logic.

Give me a PM if you need any further assistance with getting the AI closer to where you would like them. I'll try to help in anyway i can.

Best Regards

Barry

Thanks for this contribution, Barry! Thx a zillion!

You anticipated me fully; in my to-do-list there are custom-tailored AI files to modify and review as well! .Rcd files which will represents the different fellas which ran the JMB Ferraris in the years 2001-02! ... since I never made an AI file properly, I will probably need all the help you can spare on the subject. I suspect making an rcd files nicely doesn't get as easy as tuning some parameters mildly... I fear this might go beyond.

It's interesting to point the emphasis on the 360 Challenge/GT gearings, because it reminds me of the "old times": long story short, I can assure you it's perhaps one of the few 100% correct parameters the "M@d 69 team" made at the time, since I personally worked in the mod putting inside the team my family friend and at the time my father company sponsored 360 Challenge driver Sandro Montani (and this, all because of my lust for justice... ... my teen-ager mind simply couldn't stand to have a rival 360 Challenge Italia driver - Mr. Luigi Moccia - helping counselling on the development the car physic on his own on my favourite sim of the time!... In those times, I could felt challenged easily! An exceptionally childish attitude which did wonders to my initial approaches to sim-racing ... while perhaps not in my karting years ) which examined the physic with great attention to detail.

I must still keep a picture of me and Sandro testing the 360 half-ready mod somewhere, if I'll ever find it again...


p.s.: then, who knows, perhaps one day I might start working on my beloved 360 Challenge... (sorry but now, with all the good memories, I really felt to attach a picture of our friend 360-action of that time! )



To my ears, it sounded better than a 'Val di Fiemme-made' violin

Having said that, Barry, I heard there was indeed a sort of GTR2002 available to GTR1, but I heard it was a really contested version because this Xzibit might have made all sort of genocydes while converting it to GTR1: I can remember reading all sort of "j'accuses" related to him and his work. )

Eventually, but I may be remembering wrongly, it may have been the SBDT themselves shutting the door (lock) on the conversions of the GTR2002 mod. I can't remember very well.


Anyway, I'll let you know when the AI times cometh.


P.S.: Would you believe I'm now feeling very sorry for the stock GTR2 Porsches GT3-R of the Wildman mod?....

Last edited by bobwilliams; 31 October 16 at 13:15. Reason: Lack of concentration. :-P
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Unread 31 October 16, 15:04   #58
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Hi Bob. Yes indeed Xzibit did do various adjustments to SBDT's mods and i have a conversion he did for GTR1 which included both 2003 and 2004 seasons (I.I.R.C. Version 7 was the latest/last - which i do have - but no 360c mod). Xzibit like to have stronger engines and slippery grip with his mods. Graphically they were very good.

I know i have a copy in my loft, i'll have to see if i can locate it.

Regards Barry
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Unread 10 November 16, 13:49   #59
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Default Extreme Tech shock absorber head-to-wall phase

Howdi partners,

seems like cowboys are back to town to-day.

Jokes apart, just now I've sent to the kind engineer at the Extreme Shox some questions about the data conversion on the GTR2 platform.

The funniest thing of all is that while the Extreme Shox company (and perhaps other shocks absorbers producers) uses the values as N per mm/s, our beloved sim uses N per m/s (no typo here). Meters per seconds! Perhaps there's a mistake in how the programmers wrote the metric system in the garage menu OR that's the real metric used and, intended.

Either way, there's a slight chance the data made available by Simbin it's wrong. It may be that the Extreme Tech shock absorbers may have as well produced a Newton equal to 11.500 per mm/s with the softest (!) setting on the front bump. This while GTR2 tells that 1.500 are instead available as for the front bump on the lowest setting.

Perhaps the major factor maybe that I am seriously and deeply mistaking in calculating how the formula is. This is extremely... er, possible. Thanks to our friend at the Extreme Shox this doubt might be eradicated once and for all.

Then, there's my question regarding what is actually a '18 clicks all open/20 clicks all close'. Light will be shed in that thing as well.

If we can get concrete shock absorber data through GTR2 we could achieve a very good results, unless the physic would react producing an unrealistic mess. Might be as well.

Let's see how this thing goes.


More news as soon as I'll have some more!


Fare thee well, in the meanwhile.

p.s.: below, you can see the comparison I wrote about.

p.p.s.: Barry, I have some parts of the 360 Modena Challenge mod for F1 Challenge. It seems nearly the complete mod, although I can't seem to get the 360 on track because of a tedious crash to desktop. Perhaps you're interested?






(in GREY: the theoretical values for the softest shock absorbers = Extreme Tech NOT KONI)
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Unread 21 November 16, 12:03   #60
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Default Extreme Tech extremely difficult but not impossible. A light in the distance.

Hello, dear no grippers!

Good news, I could study with some dedication the last e-mail our kind technician at the Extreme Shox sent me on regard of the 'shock-absorber world'. And I must say... I'm impressed!
There's really a world out there!

Right now I'm still confused but things are getting clearer: these are the most important facts I could've... "made mine" (so to speak ):

1. My biggest problem comes from the fact our lovely sim doesn't let us acceed to the fine-tuning of the shock absorber behaviour.
Translated into engrish: GTR2 shock absorber setup tell us a slow rebound movement (for example) of the suspension can express 9200 N/mm/s. That's ok. But, Problem is, we have no chance to link the slow rebound values to the fast rebound numbers, which are fully (and so independently) modifiable.

I would need to find a way to make the sim adjust the slow/fast bump and slow/fast rebound movements together: the Extreme Tech Suspension fitted to the original 360 GT of the years 2001-2002, in fact, NEVER allowed an engineer/mechanic/driver/racefan/saint man to adjust the clicks of those two movements differently.

Chronus might know more on this, though.

Still - if there will be no chance to make 'twin clicks' of adjustement to the shock absorbers, I fear the setup adjustement fidelity will be then placed to the rigorous sim-racer, which will have to 'double click' by himself.


2. A minor problem. I only have two setting per shock absorber, both in 'full opened' (20 clicks, where the shock absorber pose no resistance at all) and 'all closed' (0 clicks, where the shock absorber is compressed to the maximum) setting. The same is true at the rear of the car (18 clicks 'full opened' and 0 clicks 'all closed'). The good thing is that I have the different energy (Newtons) expressed by the shock absorbers (not the suspension which emits its own energy, always in Newtons) at different speed (in mm per seconds).

This, translated into something very similar to our (=your ) tongue, a matter which is equally complicated, and still strange to chit-chat about, means that, with the minimum and maximum setting of the shock absorbers one can guess all the settings in the middle (the other clicks, I mean, how much energy will be released thanks to these at the different speed of the wheel).

And, there are 20 clicks in the front, and 18 on the rear. Still more than in GTR2 'page two' setup. And, I'm lucky, since some Ohlins could reach 60 clicks. In the practice, it tells the difference between bouncing with a plain stone on a glassy surface and sliding with an over-inflated balloon on a rubber mattress. Just don't try this at home!


More news next mondays. Perhaps some initial numbers.

All have an excellent day.

EDIT: a pic of my sunday night (well spent I must say!)

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Unread 21 November 16, 15:53   #61
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For the first issue, check out the Power and Glory mod. I havent figured out how they did it but in their garage menu, they have a basic setup page where you can only change 'bump'and 'rebound'
In the advanced garage, you can see both slow and fast settings but you can only change the slow setting. the fast setting automaticly changes with it then. Maybe something to look into.
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Unread 22 November 16, 11:13   #62
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Originally Posted by Apollion View Post
For the first issue, check out the Power and Glory mod. I havent figured out how they did it but in their garage menu, they have a basic setup page where you can only change 'bump'and 'rebound'
In the advanced garage, you can see both slow and fast settings but you can only change the slow setting. the fast setting automaticly changes with it then. Maybe something to look into.
Weee, Apollion my saviour!

Thanks a lot! I will look into it. As the wise grey said "this is shaping up to be a fine project!". Indeed!
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Unread 29 November 16, 10:21   #63
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Default Project evolution delayed to sunday 4th december!

Good morning fans,

sadly I have to tell you that real life obligations must take precedence before the fool..., er, good JMB-Michelotto Project!

Perhaps you can remember when I told you all about that cross-project between my university and a real company? Basically, I'm now involved in the process of creating my personal resume ex novo because the last I made makes me somehow unsatisfied of its format (hem, I discovered how the "europass format" resume, here in Europe, albeit loved by many 'youngsters' like me , isn't often well recepted by the companies themselves, because it's too impersonal and featureless, and thus doesn't help in 'getting to know with the fella') and so creating a new one from scratch has become a must.

And, I'll have to make a presentation of the thing I introduced to the company itself. Not that this make me too nervous: the good thing of such project is its simplicity (phew! ).

I think I can re-focus with our lovely waste of time this 4th december. That is the day I will focus on making the first numbers out of the Extreme Tech shock absorbers performances, as registered in the real 360 GT back in the year 2001. I repeat: we will have, a 20-clicks setting on the front, an 18-clicks setting on the rear.
Then I will proceed by consolidating the results with my friend Chronus, which was also fully taken by re-creating the 360 GT 'gearbox failures'.
After that, I will try to ask to the KONI suppliers some data about their 360 GT-personalised shock absorbers setting of that years.

I have good news, instead, about the 360 JMB-Giesse GT three-tint liveries of the years 2001-2002: expect a surprise, because my friend LeGhoul and our newest friend ChopChop agreed with me to the foo... (), er, very enthralling idea of recreating a very high fidelity version of the paint used back that years. All the merit will be theirs.

...Because, just for you to know, 360 Modenas GTs used to shimmer, back in the days. Just that bit though, so that all that glittering won't be endangering too much our masculinity.
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Unread 5 December 16, 12:38   #64
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Default Extreme Tech shock absorbers data created. Onward to the tests!

Hey-ya fellow racers,

Here's the result of a evening of bed (not bad, mind you ) study:



A Fruitful flu


And, a small correction to what I wrote last week: I wrote that these Extreme Tech shock absorbers had 20 clicks on the front, and 18 on the rear: this is false, since, as the picture above shows, 20 and 18 clicks are instead available respectively for the bump and rebound setup of the shocks.

Please note that in the table I could not reach perfect values, but opted to aproximated numbers instead: this is due to the lack of data referred to the Newtons expressed by the shock absorbers in the intermediate settings. Remember I only had the zero-click setting and the 20/18 click setting values, so all the data in the middle is fruit of my calculations.
Calculations which expresses linear values (e.g.: every click +20 Newtons), as some of you will notice... and not proportional as in real life happens (as our kind Extreme Shox engineer has informed me, only a spring can express its force linearly, while the shock absorbers express their force in a 'proportional scale' - I hope I'm being clear here... "Language divide" hazard! ).

Having done that, I tried to insert such numbers in the car .HDC file, so that Batti Pregliasco (= AI) could try the 'new solution' a bit.

This are the, um, results of a, errr, minute of testing done in the Enna Pergusa circuit, well known for its killer-kerbs (and barriers!):


Cavallino's fury unleashed... HI-HI-HI-HIIII!

...After some laughs followed, those of me and my daughter (which had lot of fun admiring how wild a Ferrari ride can be, er, at least when dad put its fingers on its shock absorbers...), I realised it was a mistake to cut off the slow bump-rebound settings on the four wheels, leaving the fast settings only.

I had initially guessed that by doing so I would have erased the independent settings of the fast/slow movements... my bad, of course that would have been a too easy solution.



Next step: investigate the Power and Glory mod - as Apollion suggested - to see if there's a solution to let the slow/fast movements of the shock absobers work together in the setting phase.
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Unread 5 December 16, 17:56   #65
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When I see your screenshots I guess why the emblem is a horse... A wild one lol
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Unread 6 December 16, 10:46   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr233 View Post
when i see your screenshots i guess why the emblem is a horse... A wild one lol


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Unread 12 December 16, 12:38   #67
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Arrow Test Day #21: One giant leap at the Enna Pergusa track.

Good afternoon to all the ferraristi and to those who are not!,

good news about the Extreme Tech shock absorbers development: just yesterday I have finally tested and deliberated on a good 75% of the suspension apparatus of the car.

To set up a proper test I had to work-out a compromise: after setting a non modifiable slow bump-rebound setting on each shock absorbers, I could insert the data on the fast bump-rebound setting as developed before.

These are my impressions from the yesterday test


The first test has ended. Part of the Extreme Tech shock absorbers behaviour has been recorded, both by my experience and my MOTEC.

I can say I'm very satisfied, once again, by the incredible results the simple raw applications of some parameters which strongly modified the car behaviour.

First - I got out of the box with the least hard setting for the bump/rebound on the four wheels.

The car felt definately less rigid that with the usual Simbin data, as if I had mounted a softer spring than the usual. It wasn't much a pain in the SLOW phase of bound / rebound (braking, accelerating), except perhaps for the moment in which there's work to do on the steering wheel and the body squat to the sides. In that case, too low N/mm to the rear wheels produced the exact opposite results I desired: a smooth but constant oversteer was produced, given by the suspension work on the rough tarmac after a too fast exit from a slow speed corner. The car does suffer the fast changes of directions on a rough tarmac. Incredibly, the car also left the classic wheelspin sign at the end of the corner - but everything happened smoothly, it is me who putted to stress the shocks to see what would've happened after that: and it was the said oversteer, which then became a "sudden death" after the car fully compressed the suspension one last time (the second or the third time, I can't remember, but MOTEC will surely confirms it).

On the other hand, running over the high Pergusa kerbs wasn't a menace at all: it all felt like my suspension had been replaced with something far softer (think to the butter!), as if the wheel wasn't exactly going over the otherwise unfamous killer-kerbs of the "sicilian" circuit.

The second time I decided to leave the pits - it has been with the highest compression of the shock absorbers.

The overall car behaviour was better: the steering phase gave a feedback much more similar to the standard GTR2 360 GT (Reborn, mind you!): firmer and therefore faster.
Going over the kerbs by the 'wheels columns' at the Pergusa chicanes could be felt as a robust experience: somehow sufficiently elastic, but still, fast and rigid enough to allow the fast change of directions necessary by the circuit overlay itself.

The test has been conducted leaving a stock value at the slow bound/rebound, as to mantain the realistic "shock absorber setting map" the Extreme Tech guaranteed to the real 360 JMB-Giesse engineers back that years.


To tell the truth, though, the testing isn't fully finished...
For two reasons:


1) I now have some doubts about the Extreme Tech 'PACKERS' setup.
I mean, did they had at all such setting?

To my "next-to-zero experience" a 'packer' should be a sort of valve which defines the extension possible to a suspension.
I may be very well in wrong, though...

In the Reborn GTR2 360 GT garage, the PACKERS can be, in fact, opened up to 4 cm to the front, and 6 cm to the rear. I suppose this is a parameter incredibly similar to the value that the engineer shared with me some months ago: he told me the shock absorbers are in fact capable of extending themselves up to 5 cm to the front, and 6 to the rear.
The thing is: shock absorbers extension = "packers" extension???

I fear this is one last question to forward to our highly patient EXT SHOX engineer...

Then,

2) the value I inserted yesterday to work as a static slow bump-rebound setting it's 3000 N/mm if I'm correct; and so, there's more testing to do (keep reading).

Although I have realistic values in my mind I'll proceed to insert today, I must confess all the results obtained yesterday are also fruit of a single 'fake' value.
To be extremely clear: the test has shown how the suspensions finally works realistically, but it has been a test solely focused on the fast passages over the kerbs, as the slow bump-rebound data was 'out of this world' (3000 N/m is in no way a 'slow bump-rebound' number. When a suspension emits 3000 N/m it means the car has gone over a high kerb).
This might as well describe some of the car 'strange moments' while driven. Seek the text written in blue, above.

Am i being clear?

But still, I'm confident I won't have a bouncy 360 GT if I insert lower N/mm to the slow bump-rebound movement of the car suspensions (remember, last time I had a 'cavallino pazzo', a crazy horse because I inserted the value ZERO to the slow bump-rebound movements!). Values, I repeat, which will be kept unmodifiable according to the real Extreme Tech setup (how this will mix with the KONI data, if it'll ever be available, will be a problem I'm already prone to confront with. Somehow I'm already sure the KONIs had both movements modifiable. LOL... This will get me mad... ).



I'm sorry I've been too technical and so less ... entertaining. It's just that the biggest advancements sometimes comes under the 'laboratory lenses'.

Still, "one small step"... and on you go.


p.s.: My promise for tomorrow, some pictures or better!


EDIT: What the heck, I deleted Fraps thinking of deleting the demo version - it was the registered version instead! Let me reinstaill it and see if I find some free time today.


p.p.s.: I'm off to give to the "AI Mastermind" Barry my talents, so we'll have the final version ready in sometime!

Last edited by bobwilliams; 13 December 16 at 10:00.
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Unread 13 December 16, 14:37   #68
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Here you can see some packers also known as bump stops or bump rubbers:
http://eibach.com/america/en/motorsp...ries/bumpstops

It could be the case that Extreme Tech didn't deliver those and the teams used their own or they got them from Koni. Because it is part of the damper.

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/packers.html


EDIT: Koni Bump Rubbers: http://www.koniracing.com/bumpstops.cfm



I also found this: http://www.racingbazar.com/vehicles/..._for_sale_2002

Not sure if the car is still there (1 year old advert) but maybe they can help. And it is in Italy as well!

Last edited by Flaux; 13 December 16 at 15:40.
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Unread 14 December 16, 12:49   #69
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Thumbs up Packers unboxed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaux View Post
Here you can see some packers also known as bump stops or bump rubbers:
http://eibach.com/america/en/motorsp...ries/bumpstops

It could be the case that Extreme Tech didn't deliver those and the teams used their own or they got them from Koni. Because it is part of the damper.

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/packers.html


EDIT: Koni Bump Rubbers: http://www.koniracing.com/bumpstops.cfm


I also found this: http://www.racingbazar.com/vehicles/..._for_sale_2002

Not sure if the car is still there (1 year old advert) but maybe they can help. And it is in Italy as well!
Hey Flaux!

Thanks for this precious contribution!
This is very helpful!

Both the EXT SHOX engineer answer on packers and these pages you posted helped me to recognize what a packer does. The reference to the Eau Rouge corner makes everything clearer.

Packers for Extreme Tech(s)
I guess I will leave the standard GTR2 garage menu numbers, which seems 'robust' enough. Perhaps I will proceed only making their "setting-up phase" more realistic: in fact, from what I've read from these Koni/Eibach pages on packers, these 'rubber stops' goes to 1 cm up to 5. Perhaps the best thing to do is making each click on the packer setting as a gain (/lose) of 1 cm in terms of more/less suspension travel. Up to 5 on the front, and 6 on the rear. After all they are little rubber bands, not rubber rings as GTR2 would have made us think (setting possible with steps of 0,1 CMs ? ).

Uh, and, as I promised, a little 'souvenir' from the Enna Pergusa testing. It's audio time. But the quality is low and so... only the most trained ears will recognize some of the implementations I made to the car... Keep in mind this is still 'unfinished business' !


p.s.: I'm encountering problems to download the P&G mod fully. I think I will simply send some PM to its renowned magicians, er, physicians.
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Unread 19 December 16, 12:11   #70
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Default Day #22: Extreme Tech setup completed. It's KONI time!

Good day to all the fellow NoGrippers,

the latest modifications I wanted to insert to the 360 GT suspension setup have been added this very sunday, in detail:

- A fixed Newton meter value has been added to the slow bump-rebound phase, so that only the fast bump-rebound movements will be modifiable (just like in reality, the Extreme Tech shock absorbers doesn't allow the user to discriminate the setup for the fast-slow movements of the wheel, having only the general setting modifiable). It's a realistic value, not the 3000 N/mm as before, and in fact, now, the car behave far less strangely than before (look up in the previous entry for the blue writings);

- The packers setup has been modified taking into account the precious Flux contribution; the data has been directly inserted to the garage setup of the car. Let's say our 360 GT of the years 2001-2002 will now use the correct KONI Racing bump-rubbers to set a realistic car packers setting.



WHAT'S NEXT:

I'm sending straightaway a mail to the Koni racing support, last time I haven't had answers because of the support crew being on holidays.

After that, I don't think I will send e-mails to the KONI support anymore, this is the 3rd try, I don't like to be annoying: it's just that I prefer to reason with a straight NO answer.

If no word from KONI will be, I fear we will have to resort to a far more difficult method: check the 'net' for a very kind technician which effectively worked with the KONI shock absorbers on a real 360 GT.................. a FAR more difficult (and time consuming) path.
Still, if I won't find any data on these shock absorbers in a reasonable amount of time, the last choice will be merging the Simbin original values with the new Extreme Tech settings. A solution I'd love to avoid...


p.s.: I should remember to make available to the people at the Ferrari club of which I wrote about entries ago the real data I received on the official Extreme Tech setup for the 360 GT of 2002. As (free) time goes by... one might sing!


I will let you know how things will goes.

Last edited by bobwilliams; 20 December 16 at 12:01.
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Unread 21 December 16, 11:16   #71
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Talking √ KONI shock absorbers data

Good news!

We're lucky enough to have got in touch with the kindest engineers of earth, probably - we've a technician at KONI who answered fully to my request and has also kept the door open to dissolve any of my doubts I might have on the data he shared with me.

This is most excellent and an unexpected outcome!

More news this friday!
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Unread 21 December 16, 11:55   #72
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Fantastic!
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Unread 23 December 16, 14:00   #73
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Arrow Day #23: Koni shock absorbers data

Dear No-Grippers!

As said in my last post, here are the latest news:







I'm sorry if the picture it's not perfectly cut - it's just that I'm currently at work (last day before Xmas and things are too quiet around here ) and my mouse must have a resolution of three-four DPI, no more, for its huge imprecision. Hence the badly cut grill.

Now, some "words of advice":

1. The data available does not fully represent the original shock absorber made available to the JMB-Giesse team in the years 2001-2002. The reason is that the dampers themselves have been originally supplied by a local (french?) KONI shop. I felt important to take contact with the official KONI racing support at KONI.com, and so a kind engineer educated me on that and shared (fully gratuitously! Wonderful) what was the most similar solution to the original used by the french team. After all, fifteen years have passed since then. But - his words - this is what comes closest to the original shock absorbers setup of the car. And yes, same shock absorbers at the front and the rear.

2. The data I made here available hasn't been tested. At all. I will proceed accordingly once I'm back from a quick Xmas holiday in the "Terrae Apuliae" (this is difficult to an englishman - to get what it is ).
It would be especially interesting knowing how this shock absorber will compare to the Extreme Tech one.... Very intriguing (this one has a stronger bump value than the Extreme Tech ones. And, a lesser rebound value. I hope comparing these two will be revealed as a very interesting practice ).

3. Problems! ... How to harmonise the current KONI shock absorber values with the Extreme Tech ones!

I was going to think to realise two different HDCs files per shock absorber type, so that the player could swap them simply typing its name in the CAR file of the car... but that would have been very unpleasant to the GTR novice.

I fear, in the end, I will resurge, er, refer to a simple approximation of numbers available, in terms of clicks available in the garage menu: this would be equally troublesome. How to harmonise so different shock absorber values? It will bring us one step farther from realism. Sadly GTR2 can't allow fully configurable shock absorbers clicks: I mean, you can set how many clicks per damper, how much the N force will be increased with each click and the maximum setting on the wheel. No more (except the starting damper setting enclosed with the default setup).

It's not the ideal, but... I fear there's no way out of the engine physic limitation.

One last path might be programming a quick exe which can easily swap .HDC files before launching GTR2 and racing with the 360 GT (always '01-'02 spec of course), lile: "what kind of shock absorbers would you like to ride on, today?" with a subsequent choice between:
-Extreme Tech (left click and the 360GT_Extreme Tech.hdc is applied to the '01-'02 360 GTs);
-Koni (left click and the 360GT_Koni.hdc is applied to the '01-'02 360 GTs).

But this is programming, and I have 0-knowledge on programming.

Still, if anybody has a better solution...

Otherwise, if no better solution will be available, I'm afraid standardized values will be.


I wish to all of you a wonderful Christmas full of joy!


Franchesko (yes they called me like that in England, more or less, sixteen years ago )
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Unread 23 December 16, 14:18   #74
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Well I am not a specialist of that championship but I guess that not all 360 use exactly the same parts : my 2 cents that some use koni whereas others use Extrem tech... So make 2 hdc files and random cars with either koni or Extrem tech specs. Maybe decals on painting could indicate which one is used by the team.
It is quite the same in fia gt with brake parts (brembo or ap racing) and tire manufacturers (Dunlop, Michelin, Pirelli).
It would be boring if all cars had the same driving style : nothing resembles a 360c more than another 360c

Merry christmas to you too

Last edited by GTR233; 23 December 16 at 14:46.
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Unread 27 December 16, 12:14   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR233 View Post
Well I am not a specialist of that championship but I guess that not all 360 use exactly the same parts : my 2 cents that some use koni whereas others use Extrem tech... So make 2 hdc files and random cars with either koni or Extrem tech specs. Maybe decals on painting could indicate which one is used by the team.
It is quite the same in fia gt with brake parts (brembo or ap racing) and tire manufacturers (Dunlop, Michelin, Pirelli).
It would be boring if all cars had the same driving style : nothing resembles a 360c more than another 360c

Merry christmas to you too
Thanks GTR233,

you are partly right. As I wrote somewhere (older post) de facto the JMB-Giesse used the Extreme Tech shock absorbers - this for the tracks with the roughest tarmac and high kerbs (fact confirmed by the then JMB-Giesse driver Christian Pescatori himself).

So we might provide to the white and black 2001 360 GTs the KONI shock absorbers and to the green-white-red 360 GTs the Extreme Tech ones; since these cars took part to the FiA GT rounds hosted in the "bumpiest circuits" (Zolder, Jarama, Hungaroring?, Estoril).

But...

Sadly the white and black 360 GTs only took part to the starting races of that year, hence, doing so would be not only unrealistic, but performance-killing: Last thing you'd love doing is racing at Silvertone with the Extreme Tech .. If variety (that's a good thing I agree with you) kills performance and realism, I fear the cons overwhelms the pros.

Perhaps this only require some field tests. Just ten laps per FiA GT circuit of that year with the Extreme Techs and then, KONIs. Compare the driving feeling and the Motec data. I might do it, though it will require time: it's not a sunday's work! ... But that would be the ideal solution.
This might as well confirm your solution, GTR233.

On the matter, all of your advices are verrry welcome.

But before that, this friday/saturday I will test throughly the car with the italian and german damping solutions.
Hometown track, of course: Vallelunga (the real one is an excellent circuit due to its peculiar corners: know that it has been the official test-track to Audi in preparation of the Le Mans in the years 2002-2003 ... the GTR2 version, well, it lacks some important details... but still it's home ).
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Unread 29 December 16, 11:30   #76
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Exclamation Tests delayed due to real life obligations!

Dear No-Grippers,

I'm sorry but I won't be able to proceed further with the test this friday/weekend: my wife is now at the hospital (nothing worrisome) for an annoying sciatica, I fear I will be passing this end of the year very far from our 'joyful waste of time'.

See you in 2017, then!
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Unread 30 December 16, 07:01   #77
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Take good care of your woman!
We give you the best wishes!!
Have a happy new year!!!
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Unread 30 December 16, 11:31   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmagas View Post
take good care of your woman!
We give you the best wishes!!
Have a happy new year!!!
+1
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Unread 2 January 17, 12:21   #79
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Thanks for your kindness, and have an excellent 2017!

Tomorrow will be test-time

(...And I'm more and more convinced GTR233 is right on how to manage the cars hdcs...)
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Unread 4 January 17, 13:27   #80
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Arrow Day #24: shock absorbers comparison. Future plans.

Good morning everbody!

I present you some memories from the yesterday tests.


---------------------------------------------------------------


Test results: Extreme Tech vs KONI; a shock absorbers comparison at the Vallelunga track ("International" layout)


Extreme Tech shock absorbers @ Vallelunga - Ferrari 360 GT #63 2001 - Reborn physic + JMB-Michelotto Project modifications (intermediate shock absorbers setting, warm track temp.)


COMMENTS:

Good. Although I had some problem with the throttle that wasn't outputting full power to the wheels, and the fact I was returning from some different driving experiences (a Porsche 996 Biturbo GT2, with which I tried to race a real 24 hours of Spa - bad experience this one and an Italtecnica Ferrari 550 GT), I could unmistakebly recognize how nervous the car was over the Vallelunga kerbs. Only crossing the kerbs at high speed helped to ride through them without actually losing too much speed and, with ease of control.
It may be me, but driving with them in the track proved a more difficult task than I thought: the car proved fairly nervous at low speed with an annoying rebounding that can be erased with a less forgiving setting (one has simply to click for the highest values to achieve the least 'bouncy' setup). A shock absorber advised for twisty circuits with high kerbs (I think it gives its best meddling with the different ground heights present on some tracks), just as said by Pescatori: a quick test on the Estoril track proved this to be the truth when riding over the twisty T3 part of the circuit. I think this shock absorbers would be best suited to the Estoril and Zolder tracks. To be avoid like the plague over Monza.




KONI shock absorbers @ Vallelunga - Ferrari 360 GT #62 - Reborn physic + JMB-Michelotto Project modifications (intermediate shock absorbers setting, warmer tarmac temp.)


COMMENTS:

Wow! And I thought the Extreme Tech were already a good results!

It's difficult to describe the KONI shock absorber behaviour in deep, having tested this solution only for six laps. But I will try.
I can say I was immediately faster. What blown me away was the suspension control in the 75-80%% of the driving time: the firmer control of the chassis gifted the driving with a very enjoying solid drive: there wasn't any car uncertainty or unwanted body roll at the entrance of the most linear corners. The ride was smooth, plain, the car attached to the ground. Wow - it was like the car had been lowered to the ground so that I could have had more grip - but it wasn't! Even in the fast corners with height changes the car reacted more precisely, although putting a wheel on a kerb at high speed it's inadvisable, due to the excessive oscillations produced than riding through it with the Extreme Techs. This is probably due to the fact we have the same values (in terms of N/mm/s) applied at the front and the rear wheels.
Still, low speed cornering over the kerbs wasn't as stressing as with the Extreme Tech shock absorbers: the more controlled body roll helped to ride through them, and correcting any driving mistake in terms of trajectories was easier than with the italian counterpart shock absorbers. Bring it on with it at Monza and Brno. Not in Zolder...




--------------------------------------------------------


Now, some graphs!




Different speeds says it all: in BLACK the Extreme Tech shock absorbers; in RED the KONI solution




See if you can spot which shock absorber bounce back slower; the milder the better: in BLACK the Extreme Tech shock absorbers; in RED the KONI solution




While at hi-speed the italians move faster, the german looks more controlled: in BLACK the Extreme Tech shock absorbers; in COLOUR the KONI solution




Mind that higher tires temperatures were also been made possible thanks to a warmer track: in BLACK the tires fitted with the Extreme Tech shock absorbers; in COLOUR the tires fitted with the KONI solution



-------------------------


...Some souvenirs of the "day".








I hope you enjoyed the ride (I did. ).

---------------------------------

What's next:


1. Make a final decision on the 2001 cars - is it good to apply the KONI to the white&black 360 GTs, while the coloured ones will benefit from the Extreme Tech?

2. Make from scratch the black and white liveries with its own logo to add (example1). I'm not a good painter but I will try!

3. Apply the correct rear wing to the 2001 cars (example1 & example 2). Modifying and applying the Viper SRT Coupe rear wing might be an idea. I never modeled before but... I will try.

4. Sounds... heh, I will think to these at the end.

5. Install the new dash and steering wheel!



That's all friends, catch you next week.

Last edited by bobwilliams; 4 January 17 at 13:52.
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Unread 4 January 17, 15:07   #81
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Great work, looks really good
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Unread 4 January 17, 18:58   #82
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Nice work!
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Unread 10 January 17, 12:03   #83
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Default Et voilà: 3D objects unmovable!

Thanks guys for your kind comment. Please remember the graphics updates you saw were made by LeGhoul.

I am now trying to extrapolate the 360 GT .gmt files from its .GTR archive. I can't seem to do that: my GTR editor doesn't seem to have the option to export the 3D materials which is normally present (it's greyed out). My question: have these been 'locked down' by the Simbins?

I don't see a way to work on the 360 GT rear wing without having the much necessary starting resource (the clay ).

Next step: manually activate my student license for 3DS Max... no internet at home!

Thanks!

P.s.: I could put my hands on the hi-res version logos for the black/white 360 GTs. Time for a nice restyiling in due time.

Last edited by bobwilliams; 10 January 17 at 12:24.
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Unread 10 January 17, 12:41   #84
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If the export button is greyed out, import any dds file first, then you can export any file in the GTR file. Seems to be a bug in the editor.
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Unread 11 January 17, 08:26   #85
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+1

Alternatively, you can also open any gtr file with geditor or just launch geditor, then click on "options" > "gtr2files" > choose a .GTR file > choose path/folder where you wanna extract files
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Unread 11 January 17, 10:50   #86
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Talking

Thanks Apollion and GTR233!

I will start hijacking the 360 GT GTR files right this evening.






EDIT: ...Every new adventure always begin with a cup o' tea, a huge pea and a fatty doughnut...


Art. Still life made... funky.




A big 'thank you' to Verde for his advice on choosing 3DS Max!


Due to a serious lack of free time my first steps in 3D are postponed to the next monday. See you next week fellow sim-racers!







EDIT #2: This is an interesting piece of sim-racing history, it dates back to the development of the Ferrari Challenge MOD for the glorious GTR 2002 MOD realised for the EA Sports F1 2002 platform (phew...).



That's exactly fifteen years before my decay would start.




The guy standing it's me in my late sixteen, the fellow embracing the mighty Logitech MOMO Force it's the Ferrari Challenge (Trofeo Pirelli) driver of the yellow 360 you saw some posts above: Sandro Montani. He was there to try the car, suggest the next steps of development, and enlighten me on the kind of set-up we had to apply to the Ferrari 360 Challenge car. Wonderful times (I have chance to relive thanks to this Berlinetta project ... I only miss my friend and racing mentor Sandro, and yes, the real races!).
It was a team project, and I still remember how stunned I was for the artistic touch of the 3D artist "M@d69", which realised the 360 Challenge body. Heh, the pioneers!

Thanks goes to daddy for having made eternal that moment.

Last edited by bobwilliams; 12 January 17 at 13:49. Reason: Three polygonal objects demanded to be visible.
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Unread 16 January 17, 19:18   #87
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The reason for editing your last post made me laugh

I have played with f360 sounds (based on stock gtr2) so I will release this little sound mod this week : you can use them or not in your project
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Unread 17 January 17, 12:00   #88
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Lightbulb Day #25: a "Nitemare 3-D" made easy.

Hello to all the berlinetta fans!

First and foremost: thank you GTR233 for your precious contribution. It seems it might be unnecessary to argue with my soundwave editor!
I can't wait to test these once at home.
Of course if I'll use your sounds in the 'final product' (it will be likely ) I'll also ask you right to add some other effects I made from scratch to the 'car compilation'. It's so important to enjoy a full soundtrack in a Ferrari 360 GT experience!

Secondly; I finally could unlock my 'student version' of 3DS Max... (really, when I firstly d'loaded the packet, it was months ago, and I was a learner at a university, no jokes ).

After the first two hours of (sunday) panic, other two hours of joy followed (monday).

Here is what I messed with in my free time (remember I'm using the Simbin 3d model of the Viper Coupe rear wing as base):




Version one: came after my first knick-knacking with 3DS Max





Version two: yesterday's work. It's been fun.



--------------Just a bit of offtopic-----------


... I never modeled before, really. The most similar work I've done to this was putting 'Wildman' (the renown author of the BPR '94-'96 mod) into trouble because I couldn't figure how to skin properly a Porsche livery (badly drawn lines, etc.). So he had to do the thing by himself.

This is as an encouragement to anybody which is now only dreaming of recreating step after step its favourite car: it is possible!
You only need patience: at the beginning, and during the creating process. At the beginning because, after viewing the tutorial videos, you suddenly realise you're smashed onto a wall made "of things never seen before" ( ).
Then, during your "creativity flow", patience is the best teacher because it becomes essential discovering, piece after piece, the program capabilities (so that the program owner can get better at the game ).

Having said that, I'm sure I can finish this project in three years, otherwise in 2020 my 'student license' will cease to exist. I think I can figure to complete the 3D of this project before the date.


----------------


Anyway, back to the rear wing modeling: I think I will start anew, reverting back to the original Simbin model. There are a pair of polygons which are currently quite driving me mad (it's because I still can't use 90% of the program options ) and I think these might be too visible once inside GTR2.

Heck, I still haven't even planned how to appy the wing to the car body. Having lowered the wing arms, I think I will need to get the 3d model lower to the chassis. I don't want to end up with a detached 3D object over the 360 GT rear parts.


Take care, more news next week.

p.s.: if you guess how come I used the strange title, it's just an old windows 95 game which I used to play in my first PC years. Ah, newlearners...

Last edited by bobwilliams; 17 January 17 at 12:11.
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Unread 17 January 17, 16:27   #89
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I can't help you with 3d... But you can ask help to zumlee if you are stuck : he is busy because he has lot of projects but he will be glad to help you (if it is just the wing to modify) I am sure
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Unread 18 January 17, 12:38   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR233 View Post
I can't help you with 3d... But you can ask help to zumlee if you are stuck : he is busy because he has lot of projects but he will be glad to help you (if it is just the wing to modify) I am sure
Thanks GTR233,

I'm off to check the Verde's creations threads: I will probably find the info there.

I will let you know anyway should I miss the ring of the link, er, whatever.
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Unread 21 January 17, 11:45   #91
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nice work there, looking forward to the result!
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Unread 23 January 17, 12:47   #92
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Arrow Conversion, formats and PiñaCOLADA

Good evening boys (early morning to some of you ),

I took contact with the famous modeler 'Verde_MSK' and it seems I have to get this 3DS Max plugin, namely OpenCOLLADA (Looks like the substitute of a piña colada ), to export back the 3DS Max model (.3ds) into a .gmt model: that's the format recognised by GTR2.
At the moment there is no way to enhance 3DS Max nor the other GTR gmt object editor (can't remember the name... 3D SimEd?) to convert a file back into the original format.

More news as soon as the situation is clearer. I still don't know how to... allocate the rear wing on a "physical space" of the car: it seems I cannot bend this learning curve as easily as I can with 3DS Max tools...

EDIT: I think this will require a very deep research... this is a short debrief of my yesterday... 'experiments' (I wrote everything asap so I could not forget a thing ) :


25/01/17
--------

My work continued finally into defining the new 3D model of the rear wing. I now have 3DS Max and I fully modified the viper coupe rear spoiler according to my liking (e.g.: real 2001-2002 360 GT rear spoiler). Problem is... although I have downloaded the OpenCOLLADA plugin for 3DS Max 2015 - which allow me to make the .3ds file into an .obj file - I cannot seem to load the helluva .obj file into SimED to convert it into a .GMT file! The SimED simply crash every time I load my .obj model. I think I will have to ask to NoGrip modding forum, or... I hope internet will be friendly enough. :-S

Moreover, if I open a .3ds file straight, SimED doesn't show anything at all, and, lastly, if I'll ever open a .DAE file the program will say 'OUT OF MEMORY' everytime. It's a nice rebus packed inside a mistery (Churchill dixit)...



And I've done some reseach: per se, it seems 3DS MAX 2015 doesn't have a plugin (= functionality) to convert its files into a .GMT object (the standard GTR2 and rF 3d format). I will let you know how my reseach is going: sadly there aren't many 3d artists with newer 3DS Max and older sims like GTR2. Except Verde perhaps (though I don't think his 3DS Max license it's still working) and zumlee (as suggested by GTR233, IF he has one of the latest 3DS MAX)... Perhaps the rFactor forums might helps.

Last edited by bobwilliams; 26 January 17 at 13:59. Reason: An update on the latest news
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Unread 26 January 17, 15:41   #93
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Ferrari F360 GT video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s61tj3KLu0s


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Unread 30 January 17, 12:55   #94
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Thanks alexmezza, a nice piece of history there.

Just an update on the file-format 'piéce' (in the "every time it seems a drama"-sense ): it seems I'll have to convert my .3ds wing object into another format: not the (opencollada).dae but the .FBX OR (3DS MAX).dae.

I really hope choosing a different output format will finally fix the problem and get the rear wing successfully in 3D SimEd and in-game (with the obvious adjustments... ).

Let's hope so! Otherwise... mail to the 3D masters!

See you soon.


EDIT: Yes! I finally managed to get the 3d model inside the 3d Sim Ed. I simply had to export the model as .3ds formato and then, import it in 3dSE. The easiest of solutions which I didn't follow at first; instead I opted to the most difficult path for having read terrible stories of uncompatibility between the 3dS Max 2015 and the older sim formats.

Now, the problem is I cannot seem to convert the .3ds file read by 3D Sim Ed into a .GMT file. I guess it's probably because I never used 3D Sim Ed fully, but to give a peak to the models only, so I think I should run the program in 'compatibilty mode'. It's dated back in 2007...
I will let you know if this will get the model in-game, my bigger challenges with the new rear wing will then be making possible corrections to the model and arrange the proper textures to it.

More news this week.


EDIT #2: Whoa, I'm super-busy with my job at this time, plus, my daughter has caught a virus and she's just come back home.

Tonight I have some free time I will use to check the said problem (see above "EDIT") on 3D Sim Ed.

Yesterday my 32th birthday, no super-dinner nor cake; but an hopping baby it's rewarding enough!

P.s.: please, know that progresses will be slower these months. My fault: I have to find a new job after all: 31th may, it will be my last day at "my place".
In case you're wondering: I'm happy of that, I couldn't stand to be an IT technician anymore. Time to find something more suiting to my passions (and thence, entertaining ).

Until the next time... stay tuned

p.s.#2: What the-- will GTR3 be out in due time?

Last edited by bobwilliams; 3 February 17 at 12:38.
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Unread 6 February 17, 11:48   #95
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Arrow The pesky laws of GTR2 modeling.

Goodmorning boys,

just a little update, I just sent a PM to the renowned 3d artist Verde; with some luck we might have the new rear wing in-game in few weeks (the GMT file is ready, [perhaps it will only need a new texturing]), I only asked him how to make the new wing appear on the car, since not the wing nor the car currently shows in GTR2.

I'm confident that having climbed this 'little mountain' things will then get easier from then on (no, that doesn't translate into "the Project will be finished soon" ).

What else? An italian proverb: "Se son rose fioriranno!"

(meaning? Internet is your friend... )


EDIT: Whoa, finally I could get my trace file working!

This is how it looks. I'll investigate in the next days


Code:
TRACE LEVEL = 1000
netcomm.cpp  7902: NetComm checking command line: "-trace=1000"
game.cpp      633: Entered Game::Enter()
osman.cpp     469: Entered OSMan::Enter()
setup.cpp    1194: Could not find .HDC
[...]
setup.cpp    1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp    1194: Could not find BMW_E90.HDC
setup.cpp    1194: Could not find BMW_E90.CAS
setup.cpp    1194: Could not find BMW_E90.AUD
setup.cpp    1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp    1194: Could not find BMW_E90.HDC
setup.cpp    1194: Could not find BMW_E90.CAS
setup.cpp    1194: Could not find BMW_E90.AUD
vidman.cpp   1011: Entered VidMan::Enter()
specialfx.cp 3577: Entered SpecialFX::Enter()
dynman.cpp    597: Entered DynMan::Enter()
plrfile.cpp  3783: Entered PlayerFile::Enter()
sound.cpp     700: Entered Sound::Enter()
hwinput.cpp  6527: Entered HWInput::Enter()
onscreen.cpp 3155: Entered OnScreen::Enter()
game.cpp      726: Entered Game::Setup()
hwinput.cpp  6541: Entered HWInput::Setup()
options.cpp  1657: Entered Options::Setup()
tire_manager 1171: Non-existent tire brand ""
tire_manager 1171: Non-existent tire brand ""
tire_manager 1171: Non-existent tire brand ""
tire_manager 1171: Non-existent tire brand ""
O_BaseGz.cpp 8759: CUBE error loading scene file USERDATA\tmpvehicle.scn: Error loading global material WC_TE023
O_BaseGz.cpp 8759: CUBE error loading scene file USERDATA\tmpvehicle.scn: Error loading global material WC_TE023
O_BaseGz.cpp 8759: CUBE error loading scene file USERDATA\tmpvehicle.scn: Error loading global material WC_TE023
O_BaseGz.cpp 8759: CUBE error loading scene file USERDATA\tmpvehicle.scn: Error loading global material WC_TE023
O_BaseGz.cpp 8759: CUBE error loading scene file USERDATA\tmpvehicle.scn: Error loading global material WC_TE023
O_BaseGz.cpp 8759: CUBE error loading scene file USERDATA\tmpvehicle.scn: Error loading global material WC_TE023
O_BaseGz.cpp 8759: CUBE error loading scene file USERDATA\tmpvehicle.scn: Error loading global material WC_TE023
O_BaseGz.cpp 8759: CUBE error loading scene file USERDATA\tmpvehicle.scn: Error loading global material WC_TE023
O_BaseGz.cpp 8759: CUBE error loading scene file USERDATA\tmpvehicle.scn: Error loading global material WC_TE023
O_BaseGz.cpp 8759: CUBE error loading scene file USERDATA\tmpvehicle.scn: Error loading global material WC_TE023
specialfx.cp 3583: Entered SpecialFX::Setup()
steward.cpp  4718: Entered Steward::Setup()
dynman.cpp    609: Entered DynMan::Setup()
sound.cpp     723: Entered Sound::Setup()
onscreen.cpp 3161: Entered OnScreen::Setup()
vidman.cpp   1152: Entered VidMan::Setup()
plrfile.cpp  3793: Entered PlayerFile::Setup()
plrfile.cpp  2936: Attempting to save to USERDATA\Francesco Sabatini\Francesco Sabatini.TMP
plrfile.cpp  2959: Retcode: 0 for renaming to USERDATA\Francesco Sabatini\Francesco Sabatini.PLR
game.cpp      770: Entered Game::Init()
vidman.cpp   1205: Entered VidMan::Init()
ai_db.cpp    2215: Entered AIDatabase::Init()
steward.cpp  4856: Entered Steward::Init()
hwinput.cpp  6584: Entered HWInput::Init()
specialfx.cp 3694: Entered SpecialFX::Init()
dynman.cpp    639: Entered DynMan::Init()
slot.cpp      284: Entered Slot::Init()
vehgfx.cpp   2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\TRACKVEHICLES\SAFETYCAR\SAFETYCAR.CAS)
slot.cpp      284: Entered Slot::Init()
pitmod.cpp    197: Entered PitAction::Init
vehgfx.cpp   2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\FIAGT_00_02\FERRARI 360 TEAMS\2001_JMB COMPETITION\..\FERRARI_360.CAS)
vehgfx.cpp   2631: Unable to read USERDATA\LOG\vehgen.scn: Error loading global material WC_TE023
vehgfx.cpp   2684: Could not find instance "SLOT000"
... I will let you know if I can solve the problem without too much hassle.


Until then, have a nice weekend.

Last edited by bobwilliams; 10 February 17 at 18:35.
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Unread 12 February 17, 01:31   #96
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Ive been following this with interest ever since I joined nogrip recently and this is one of the first threads I clicked on in the forum. Love the attention to detail and the effort you go to. Can't wait to see the final product whenever that is, half the fun is the journey itself.
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Unread 12 February 17, 05:25   #97
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@bobwilliams: I've just looked at your trace.txt file and it says that it cannot find bmw e90 mod apparently
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Unread 13 February 17, 06:34   #98
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For sale : http://www.fchgt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=223

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Unread 13 February 17, 11:44   #99
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Nice set of pics alexmezza
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Unread 13 February 17, 15:00   #100
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Arrow Update #1 on rear wing issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR233 View Post
@bobwilliams: I've just looked at your trace.txt file and it says that it cannot find bmw e90 mod apparently
Hey GTR233,

thanks for giving to the trace 'a peek', I fear the very big problem regarding my CTD is in the lines:

Code:
vehgfx.cpp   2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\FIAGT_00_02\FERRARI 360 TEAMS\2001_JMB COMPETITION\..\FERRARI_360.CAS)
vehgfx.cpp   2631: Unable to read USERDATA\LOG\vehgen.scn: Error loading global material WC_TE023
vehgfx.cpp   2684: Could not find instance "SLOT000"
It seems there's something wrong for a global material that's badly (?) loaded, for a "SLOT000" not found . . . I think I'll have to check the .CAS file of the 360 GT, comparing it with the one of the Viper Competition Coupe which 'donated' the base model of the rear wing which I subsequently modified. It seems there could be something more to do, in terms of ... pure typing? (I'd love if this would suffice, though it seems Verde_MSK has confirmed me such analysis in his last PM sent to me).

Thanks alexmezza for the pictures. Always appreciated.

I will let you know of my progresses; sadly my job research has literally ate my time 'dediquée' to the Project away, but I promise that as soon as I will find a new one (that's very difficult in Italy, you know ... unless you have the unfamous and sometimes anti-meritocratic 'conoscenze' ) the work will continue as usual!

Take care,

BW



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



EDIT: What the - Ferrari - FXXK!!!

It looks like I completely forgot to assign the proper genstring to the new rear wing!...


Hey thanks for your patience!

[...] so I ask you: is it the GTR2 .MAS file the one responsible of the management of the 3d objects? Perhaps I can change the object name and such in that file accessible with the Notepad editor? And, one last question... There's no way to import a model to a car if it's missing its texture in-game? I planned to realise a proper texture in a second time, after I had seen the 3d plain object in-game... De facto I have to enable the texture or it's a no-go?
[...]

Francesco



Hi
Sorry, [...]
gtr2 mas?..
.mas is rfactor1 format...
.cas file is the file where are you write all about file hierarchy
[...]
but don't forget <number> after file name in .cas file means genstring number in .car file!
if texture is missing...just put one with same name I always make it



More tests and analysis this week, a HUGE thanks to Verde_MSK for his patience and dedication on answering all of my questions.

Last edited by bobwilliams; 13 February 17 at 15:14.
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