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Unread 10 March 17, 17:56   #1
KJVELO
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Please help! Suddenly CTD on all tracks

First, thanks for any ideas you all may have.

After driving GTR 2 for many,many years with no problems at all, suddenly all my (120) tracks CTD.
I installed 3 tracks yesterday
Londrina
Saltzbergring 2009
Road One Int.

The CTD on all tracks started after installing Road One. I deleted all 3 tracks but the CTD still occurs for all tracks. I have no idea why.

Can anyone suggest solutions to fix this?

Should I do a new GTR2 install?

If I do a new install, can I cut and paste my tracks one by one from the old folder into the new tracks folder?

I'm ok with computers but I know you all know tons more.

Thanks
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Unread 10 March 17, 21:05   #2
DurgeDriven
 
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Not sure I just tested all 3 in a fresh folder and they worked fine.

Check your Shared folder Road One puts a file there

Quote:
Should I do a new GTR2 install?
Always do a Fresh Install then archive it for future use

Yes you can copy and paste your tracks anywhere

Some other tracks may have files in Shared as well though



edit: doh...run a trace

Right-click your GTR2 shortcut and add -trace=1000 to the target line

eg: If Target Line was C:\GTR2\GTR2.exe change to C:\GTR2\GTR2.exe -trace=1000

Run GTR2 after CTD go to UserData\LOG\trace.txt

If you ran RunAFF like me trace would look like this:

Last edited by DurgeDriven; 11 March 17 at 01:01.
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Unread 11 March 17, 13:23   #3
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Thanks very much
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Unread 12 March 17, 17:35   #4
pistoncup
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try Manually delete all the hat files. Userdata/Log/Hat. Then start the game .
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Unread 18 March 17, 01:05   #5
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see if u had silverstone79... that track cause an error...
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Unread 29 March 17, 02:40   #6
KJVELO
 
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Thanks to all. I did a reinstall. Glad I did.
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Unread 14 April 17, 15:52   #7
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HELP!

I'm experiencing stuttering, freezes, and/or CTD on any track I try after only a minute or two of racing, and this occurs in ALL my Simbin games: GTR2 (and P&G), rFactor, and GTL. Never had this problem before.

What's changed for me?

A couple of days ago, I reinstalled Crammond's Grand Prix 4 (2002), applying the official patch and replacing the original GP4.exe with the No CD version. It runs well enough and I'm really enjoying driving from the T-cam perspective, though it does sometimes freeze when I press ESC. The last step of the installation from the CD was the "requirement" to install DirectX 8.1. Is THIS possibly what's screwed up my Simbin games? And if so, how do I fix this??? Can I simply re-install a more recent version of Direct X (a version of 9.0?) on my computer without affecting GP4? And is it important WHERE on the hard drive the Direct X file(s) are installed?

I'm having no trouble running old favorites Grand Prix Legends and SBK2001. My gaming computer OS is Windows XP Professional, and the specs are:

Intel Pentium D (3 GHz)
NVidia 7800 GTX (256 MB)
RAM: 3.25 GB

Not very robust by today's standards, I know, but it plays the games I want to play. Some day I hope to be able to afford a whole new system so I can enjoy Assetto Corsa and iRacing or what comes next, but right now I'm barely covering the bills! So please let me know if you deduce from my description above the solution to my Simbin crisis!

Last edited by Wee Scot; 14 April 17 at 17:24.
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Unread 14 April 17, 15:53   #8
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Sorry, DurgeDriven. I'll go run a trace now and post the results...

OK, as expected, half way around a lap at Spa, the screen froze, with sound and FFB continuing for about 10 seconds, then it went quiet for 5 seconds, then the game resumed for about 10 seconds before the screen froze again, again producing sound and FFB tremble for about 5 seconds, before the screen went black, sound and FFB tremble stopped. About 10 seconds later, I got a No Signal message on my monitor.

My computer did not respond to CTRL-ALT-DEL, so I did a hard shutdown and started it up again.

When it came up, I had a Microsoft "The system has recovered from a serious error" message:
Error signature
BCCode: ea BCP1: 896EF020 BCP2: 8A337B28 BCP3: 89C7D298
BCP4: 00000001 OSVer: 5_1_2600 SP: 3_0 Product: 256_1
The Error Report Contents:
The following files will be included in this error report:

C:\DOCUME~1\John\LOCALS~1\Temp\WERe967.dir00\Mini0 41417-01.dmp
C:\DOCUME~1\John\LOCALS~1\Temp\WERe967.dir00\sysda ta.xml
The trace log:

TRACE LEVEL = 1000
netcomm.cpp 7902: NetComm checking command line: "-trace=1000"
game.cpp 633: Entered Game::Enter()
osman.cpp 469: Entered OSMan::Enter()
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC

(lots more of these lines...)

setup.cpp 1194: Could not find BMW_E46_M3.HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find BMW_E46_M3.CAS
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find BMW_E46_M3.AUD
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find BMW_E46_M3.HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find BMW_E46_M3.CAS
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find BMW_E46_M3.AUD
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find BMW_E46_M3.HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find BMW_E46_M3.CAS
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find BMW_E46_M3.AUD
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC

(LOTS more of these lines!)

setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORD_GT3.HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.CAS
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.AUD
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORD_GT3.HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.CAS
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.AUD
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORD_GT3.HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.CAS
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.AUD
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORD_GT3.HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.CAS
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.AUD
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORD_GT3.HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.CAS
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.AUD
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORD_GT3.HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.CAS
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.AUD
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORD_GT3.HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.CAS
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find FORDGT3.AUD
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC

(LOTS more...)

setup.cpp 1194: Could not find 1988_HEADPHYSICS.HED
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find 1988_HEADPHYSICS.HED
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find 1988_HEADPHYSICS.HED
setup.cpp 1194: Could not find .HDC

(Etc.)

vidman.cpp 1011: Entered VidMan::Enter()
specialfx.cp 3577: Entered SpecialFX::Enter()
dynman.cpp 597: Entered DynMan::Enter()
plrfile.cpp 3783: Entered PlayerFile::Enter()
sound.cpp 700: Entered Sound::Enter()
hwinput.cpp 6527: Entered HWInput::Enter()
onscreen.cpp 3155: Entered OnScreen::Enter()
game.cpp 726: Entered Game::Setup()
hwinput.cpp 6541: Entered HWInput::Setup()
options.cpp 1657: Entered Options::Setup()
tire_manager 1171: Non-existent tire brand ""
tire_manager 1171: Non-existent tire brand ""
tire_manager 1171: Non-existent tire brand ""
tire_manager 1171: Non-existent tire brand ""
specialfx.cp 3583: Entered SpecialFX::Setup()
steward.cpp 4718: Entered Steward::Setup()
dynman.cpp 609: Entered DynMan::Setup()
sound.cpp 723: Entered Sound::Setup()
onscreen.cpp 3161: Entered OnScreen::Setup()
vidman.cpp 1152: Entered VidMan::Setup()
plrfile.cpp 3793: Entered PlayerFile::Setup()
plrfile.cpp 2936: Attempting to save to USERDATA\Jackie Stewart\Jackie Stewart.TMP
plrfile.cpp 2959: Retcode: 0 for renaming to USERDATA\Jackie Stewart\Jackie Stewart.PLR
game.cpp 770: Entered Game::Init()
vidman.cpp 1205: Entered VidMan::Init()
ai_db.cpp 2215: Entered AIDatabase::Init()
steward.cpp 4856: Entered Steward::Init()
hwinput.cpp 6584: Entered HWInput::Init()
specialfx.cp 3694: Entered SpecialFX::Init()
dynman.cpp 639: Entered DynMan::Init()
slot.cpp 284: Entered Slot::Init()
vehgfx.cpp 2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\TRACKVEHICLES\SAF ETYCAR\SAFETYCAR.CAS)
slot.cpp 284: Entered Slot::Init()
pitmod.cpp 197: Entered PitAction::Init
vehgfx.cpp 2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\NGT\PORSCHE 996 GT3 RSR TEAMS\BINFORD-RACING\..\PORSCHE_996GT3RSR.CAS)
slot.cpp 284: Entered Slot::Init()
vehgfx.cpp 2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\NGT\PORSCHE 996 GT3 RSR TEAMS\MONTECITO RACING\..\PORSCHE_996GT3RSR.CAS)
slot.cpp 284: Entered Slot::Init()
vehgfx.cpp 2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\NGT\PORSCHE 996 GT3 RSR TEAMS\WILD PINK\..\PORSCHE_996GT3RSR.CAS)
slot.cpp 284: Entered Slot::Init()
vehgfx.cpp 2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\NGT\PORSCHE 996 GT3 RSR TEAMS\TEAM MILKA\..\PORSCHE_996GT3RSR_NEW.CAS)
slot.cpp 284: Entered Slot::Init()
vehgfx.cpp 2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\NGT\PORSCHE 996 GT3 RSR TEAMS\SHELL DUNLOP\..\PORSCHE_996GT3RSR_NEW.CAS)
slot.cpp 284: Entered Slot::Init()
vehgfx.cpp 2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\NGT\PORSCHE 996 GT3 RSR TEAMS\FLYING LIZARD MOTORSPORT\..\PORSCHE_996GT3RSR.CAS)
slot.cpp 284: Entered Slot::Init()
vehgfx.cpp 2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\NGT\PORSCHE 996 GT3 RSR TEAMS\HAWAIIAN TROPIC\..\PORSCHE_996GT3RSR.CAS)
slot.cpp 284: Entered Slot::Init()
vehgfx.cpp 2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\NGT\PORSCHE 996 GT3 RSR TEAMS\FREISINGER\..\PORSCHE_996GT3RSR.CAS)
slot.cpp 284: Entered Slot::Init()
vehgfx.cpp 2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\NGT\PORSCHE 996 GT3 RSR TEAMS\WAGNER MOTORSPORT\..\PORSCHE_996GT3RSR.CAS)
slot.cpp 284: Entered Slot::Init()
vehgfx.cpp 2587: Entered VehGraphics::Init(GAMEDATA\TEAMS\NGT\PORSCHE 996 GT3 RSR TEAMS\FREISINGER\..\PORSCHE_996GT3RSR.CAS)
LensFlare.cp 55: Entered LensFlare::Init()
camera.cpp 4189: Entered CamMan::Init()
sound.cpp 728: Entered Sound::Init()
render.cpp 274: Entered Render::Init()
onscreen.cpp 3167: Entered OnScreen::Init()
game.cpp 905: Entered Game::Restart()
sound.cpp 735: Entered Sound::Restart()
steward.cpp 4978: Entered Steward::Restart()
specialfx.cp 4186: Entered SpecialFX::Restart()
hwinput.cpp 6595: Entered HWInput::Restart()
dynman.cpp 770: Entered DynMan::Restart()
driver.cpp 628: Race Ability: 4.086001 CorneringAdd: 1.456999
driver.cpp 628: Race Ability: 2.874932 CorneringAdd: 0.712534
driver.cpp 628: Race Ability: 5.769707 CorneringAdd: 0.615146
driver.cpp 628: Race Ability: 4.101504 CorneringAdd: 1.449248
driver.cpp 628: Race Ability: 4.938993 CorneringAdd: 1.030503
driver.cpp 628: Race Ability: 4.690634 CorneringAdd: 1.154683
driver.cpp 628: Race Ability: 4.565020 CorneringAdd: 1.217490
driver.cpp 628: Race Ability: 5.380047 CorneringAdd: 0.809977
driver.cpp 628: Race Ability: 1.336512 CorneringAdd: 1.581744
driver.cpp 628: Race Ability: 3.989364 CorneringAdd: 0.855318
driver.cpp 628: Race Ability: 3.168473 CorneringAdd: 1.640764
camera.cpp 4215: Entered CamMan::Restart()
render.cpp 290: Entered Render::Restart()
onscreen.cpp 3187: Entered OnScreen::Restart()
vidman.cpp 1423: Entered VidMan::Restart()
plrfile.cpp 3830: Entered PlayerFile::Restart()

What I find interesting is that I wasn't using ANY of those car files at the top of the log at the time of the CTD. I was racing a Porsche 996 GT3 RSR against 9 other Porsche RSRs.

What does this portend???

Last edited by Wee Scot; 14 April 17 at 17:19.
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Unread 14 April 17, 21:36   #9
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Well, DAMN!

It's printed right on the GTR2 installation CDs: "DirectX 8.1 compatible"
So installing DirectX 8.1 from the Grand Prix 4 CD shouldn't have messed up my Simbin games!?

I'm hoping the key to my CTDs reveals itself in that trace log...

Anybody?
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Unread 15 April 17, 04:12   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
Well, DAMN!

It's printed right on the GTR2 installation CDs: "DirectX 8.1 compatible"
So installing DirectX 8.1 from the Grand Prix 4 CD shouldn't have messed up my Simbin games!?

I'm hoping the key to my CTDs reveals itself in that trace log...

Anybody?
You should have ignored the DX setup in GP4 I think

XP and 7800GTX are both full DirectX 9 support

If you ever have a game wants to install DX just cancel or untick the box

Download DirectX 9.0c (June 10)

http://filehippo.com/download_directx/

Delete Sysinfo.txt and Config.ini
Redo your GTR/GTL config exe


If that does not work try removing the entire player folder to temp, do config.exe and test

Look here answer by Duc for user with similar trace log
http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=3995
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Unread 15 April 17, 15:06   #11
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OK, thanks!

Patience, please. I know just enough about the inner workings of these beasts to be dangerous (to myself).

So, to be clear:

1) I should download DirectX 9.0c from the link you provided.
Now, when I download it, will it be an executable file that, when I click on it, will know where to put itself and what to delete/overwrite? Or will it be a simple file that I have to put in the right location? And, if the latter, what is that location? And will I need to manually delete a DirectX 8.1 file???

2) I should delete sysinfo.txt and config.ini
These should be deleted from where? From my GTR2 (and P&G, and GTL, and rFactor) root directories? And will the game recreate these files as soon as I start them the next time?

3) I should redo my GTR/GTL config exe
What does this mean, exactly? Are there config.exe files in each Simbin game's root directory that, when double-clicked, will open a dialog box giving me the option to select the version of DirectX I'm using?

A helpful bloke at grandprixgames.org suggested I uninstall Grand Prix 4, see if THAT eliminates my Simbin CTDs, and, if so, then re-install a mediafire version of GP4 that already contains the update and patches, and hopefully won't cause whatever problems using my original game CD presumably caused. Or is it your opinion that the two were unrelated, that installing GP4 again for the first time in 10 years was simply coincidental with my Simbin CTD issues? Seems unlikely to me they were just coincidental, since I'd never experienced Simbin CTDs before, but...

Oh, and what about the conclusion that the guy DucFreak advised was having trouble from the game's movie files? Should I just try deleting those folders before taking ANY of the steps outlined above?????

Thanks in advance for providing the clarifying info this Old Geezer requests!
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Unread 16 April 17, 00:47   #12
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1. Just download and click the exe it will overwrite any DX8.1 with same names

At least I never remember having to use a cleaner for DX maybe old video drivers in the day

2. Yes

Delete both files will force config to run
DON'T run GTR2.exe
Run GTR2config.exe manually ( it will remake both files )
Then start GTR2.exe


3. Yes and Yes all GMotor have selection for DX9/8/7

You pick DX9 as you have a DX9 card

GTR2 folder - GTR2config.exe
PnG folder - GTR2config.exe
GTL folder - GTLconfig.exe
rFactor folder - rF Config.exe


Yes remove the Movie folder to a Temp see if it helps


cough cough lol

I use NoGrip community GTL and GTR2 Essentials of course which has mods you 1 click
to disable the Intro ( Movies ) and Soundtrack or add your own soundtracks

I also have private PnG and rFactor Essentials that do the same thing.


P.S. After you install DX9.0c try GP4 menu/ config would not surprise me it runs okay
DX for the larger part is backwards compat.
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Unread 16 April 17, 03:18   #13
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Thanks for taking the time to answer all of my questions thoroughly and in order, so even EYE can't misunderstand what I need to do! It'll probably be another 24 hours before I can get around to taking these steps, though, since the wife and I are going to Charlottesville in about 8 hours to spend Easter with our youngest daughter. I'll post again when I've completed the suggested operations.

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Unread 16 April 17, 08:32   #14
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Default afterthought........

Also remember GP4 is 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 max default I believe

So if you use widescreen and/or a bigger resolution edit " f1graphics.cfg" with Notepad
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Unread 17 April 17, 16:04   #15
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Well, I'm afraid I'm screwed...

About an hour ago, I uninstalled GP4, then tried GTR2 again to see if just removing GP4 might have removed a "conflict" causing GTR2 to crash. It hadn't. Only, this time, GTR2 didn't first freeze an image on screen; it went straight to black! Then my computer appeared to be trying to reboot itself: the CD and DVD drive lights lit up in sequence, then the light for hard drive activity started flickering. But within about a minute all apparent "activity" stopped and I got a No Signal message on screen.

After a hard shutdown, I tried again, only this time, GTR2 went to a black screen before I'd even left the starting grid! The next time, I didn't even get through the menus before I got the black screen.

Next I wanted to try replacing whatever version of DirectX was active on my computer with the 9.0c you pointed me to, hoping desperately that that might fix whatever was shutting me down. But I couldn't even get my computer to display my Desktop long enough to select the DirectX 9.0c executable file. It went black before I had a chance to double click on the icon!

The next time I restarted the computer, I pressed F12, looking for a "Safe Mode" startup option, but didn't find what I was looking for. Instead, I selected Hard Drive Diagnostics (I think that's what it's called) and performed tests for "unexpected shutdowns" and "frequent reboots", both of which tested and found my cooling fan to be in good working order. Then I tested the hard drive, and it reported back that it was functioning properly (I think). Then I selected "video diagnostics" or whatever it was called, and was happily clicking 'Y' through screen after screen of patterns and colors when, suddenly the screen went black and the power button on the front of my computer started flashing amber!

Now I can't get it to boot up at all. When I push the power button, all I get is a flashing amber. Is it possibly "just" my power unit that was failing and finally failed??? Would brief interruptions or drops in power cause a game to lock and then crash, followed by a seeming attempt by the computer to reboot itself???

What next???

BTW, I don't think my problem was ever really CTDs. I seem to remember one or two CTDs with GP4, but I think all of my GTR2 problems involved freezes, followed by brief game resumptions, followed by black screens.

Last edited by Wee Scot; 17 April 17 at 16:20.
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Unread 17 April 17, 20:26   #16
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@Wee Scot: It does seem to be a more serious problem than software (faulty drivers and etc) contrary to initial suspicions.
Your description makes it sound like a hardware problem (most likely the power supply unit failure?) causing the troubles, but then we can't know for sure.

GP4 is much lighter on resources than GTR2, so perhaps as the problem was getting worse, it was not imediately noticed with GP4, and it became so with GTR2.

Since noone can confirm what the problem is without diagnosing, I'd sugest to take that PC to somewhere you can trust service, explain in detail what happened, and what you think it is (giving good clues, same time that you show that you know enough not to be fooled with a heap of expensive new parts).
If it's just a PSU replacement, then expect at least 50 dollars for a decent replacement.

Quote:
I'm having no trouble running old favorites Grand Prix Legends and SBK2001. My gaming computer OS is Windows XP Professional, and the specs are:

Intel Pentium D (3 GHz)
NVidia 7800 GTX (256 MB)
RAM: 3.25 GB
That's a pretty old system good only for older games. If that's all you're interested in and happy with it, keep it running. But we could put up a nice list of parts for a budget system for you, once you feel ready to pull the trigger for it.
.

Last edited by DucFreak; 17 April 17 at 20:37.
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Unread 17 April 17, 20:43   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post

What next???
First thing to do is disconnect the HDDs and CD

If it has on-board video use that and remove the graphics card
and any other cards as well.

Try a boot see if you can get it too bios to check settings


P.S.

I don't think new PC is on the cards...
Quote:
Some day I hope to be able to afford a whole new system so I can enjoy Assetto Corsa and iRacing or what comes next, but right now I'm barely covering the bills!
Anyone have hand-me-downs they can post Wee Scot

Last edited by DurgeDriven; 17 April 17 at 21:45.
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Unread 17 April 17, 22:50   #18
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Thanks, guys. Actually, I think I'm in a much better situation than I thought I was this morning!

After about 15 minutes of total, mind-numbing, zombie-like despair, my mind cleared and I remembered that I've already got "hand-me-downs" I can use to build a much better gaming machine than I've been using!!!

Four years ago, you might remember, a very generous simracer who lives just a few hours away gave me his old Logitech G25! I was enraptured from the first time I used it, and it's still going strong! But he ALSO gave me some of his old components, including:
  • Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 (3.16 GHz, 6 MB of L2 cache)
  • ATI Radeon HD 5850 (DirectX 11, 1 GB of GDDR5)
  • Antec 500 watt power supply
  • Cooler Master Hyper 48 CPU cooler (92 mm fan and "copper stacking fins with with four heat pipes...")
  • Gigabyte Poseidon tower
I hadn't done anything with these, yet, because I was still comfortable with my old rig and, frankly, I didn't relish the thought of paying someone else to put the "new" stuff together (I don't have the skills) and then maybe finding something not to my liking!

But NOW!

And there they all were, right in the box I put them in.

SO!

Now my questions are:
  • What will I have to pay for a motherboard (with onboard sound?) and how much of what kind of RAM should I buy to get the most out of GTR2 with the rest of these components?
  • What OS should I get?
  • Will I be able to use the hard drive I had in my old Dell XPS 400 (assuming it's not compromised), or will I have to have it mirrored and transfer all the data files (tracks, cars, etc.) to a new hard drive, since I won't be using Windows XP any longer?

I'm assuming I'll have to re-install all my games, but I'm hoping I won't have to re-install all of the tracks and cars I've accumulated over the years!

Please feel free to ALSO help me with any questions I've forgotten to ask!

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Unread 17 April 17, 23:50   #19
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Search Ebay ...Google " Intel Core 2 Duo Motherboard Ebay " ......there is a good selection.
They have decent onboard sound and should not be too dear.

The memory in your Pentium D should work I think ( don't quote me )

Both use up to DDR2-800MHz or 1066MHz

OS I would use W7 Home Premium, you can burn it to a 4/8GB thumb drive.


Hardrive depends if it is IDE or Sata

Some motherboards may have have both IDE and Sata some have just Sata

To keep anything safe on your old Hardrive ( especially if it is C drive only you need/want to back it up )
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Unread 18 April 17, 00:23   #20
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@Wee Scot:

Good base there, I think.
That'll actually provide a noticeable improvement in performance! And should provide a fun build process ahead for you.

If you're looking for a motherboard for that Intel C2D E8500 processor, then a P45 chipset motherboard is, by far, your better bet.
One very important note is that some P45 motherboards support DDR2 memory sticks, and some others support DDR3 memory sticks. You need to choose one accordingly.


DDR2 memory sticks have been out of production for years now (hard to find in stores these days), but I'm sure Ebay will have heaps of them available.
P45 motherboards that support DDR2 will usually accept sticks of DDR2 667, 800, or 1066.

DDR3 memory sticks, although slowly being phased out, are still available brand new, but these days only the highest speeds get to be available (1600, 1866, 2000 and 2133).
Be aware that the P45 motherboards that support DDR3 were designed for DDR3 800, 1066 or 1333.


The P45 motherboards themselves were usually great (no matter what RAM), but are no longer sold.
Still, and again, I'm sure you'll find heaps in places like Ebay. Even brand new in sealed box.

The problem with hardware that is close to a decade old now (this is 2008/2009 stuff) is that it has been discontinued for a bit, and so some arseholes go into price gouging mode.
So, be careful with high prices from greedy sellers.


I think some reading on a few P45 motherboard comparos is a good idea, just for your to get to know what may be your next system motherboard:



I recall some years back, when the AMD 4800 and 5800 GPUs were combined with those C2D E8XXX processors, and 4 or 8 GB of RAM to make good gaming rigs. This stuff sold like hotcakes.
I remember these P45 mobos being very popular here:


Next, the hard disc drive.
I don't see any problem in using your current HDD with the new system. AFAIK all these motherboards support both ATA and SATA for the HDDs. Still, you'd be better with a new HDD.

For the HDD, I'd recommend the WD Blue 1TB WD10EZEX. This specific model is top because it's affordable, fast, reliable, and big enough. (I've used them inumerous times in new systems, and have one myself)
Don't worry about getting a SATA3 HDD, as it'll work just fine in a SATA2 motherboard (backwards compatibility with older motherboards).


As for the OS, I'm partial towards Windows 7 64-bit (Professional), but I guess Windows 10 64-bit is what most are going for now, and easiest to get (may be found at less than 30 bucks now).

You can get an Win10 OEM key for ~10 bucks on Ebay, or Win10 OEM key for ~25 bucks on Kinguin.


PS: may be better to open up a new thread in the Computech section here at NG, so we can follow you better on the specific matter.
.

Last edited by DucFreak; 18 April 17 at 01:49.
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Unread 18 April 17, 02:00   #21
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Wow! Thanks for all the great advice!

Since my last post I also contacted a good friend of my son who enjoys building systems from hand-me-downs. He's fixed problems with my son's computers over the years and is coming to see me Wednesday evening, bringing his own computer and some other components, to see what he can put together at NO cost to me! But tomorrow I'll also give HIM the benefit of your advice on motherboards, memory, hard drives, and operating systems, so he knows what my friends are recommending! And as you suggested, DucFreak, I'll start a new topic in the Computech section.

Thanks again to both of you! It's great to be part of such a friendly, supportive community!
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Unread 20 April 17, 10:42   #22
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I Googled -
Error signature
BCCode: ea BCP1: 896EF020 BCP2: 8A337B28 BCP3: 89C7D298
BCP4: 00000001 OSVer: 5_1_2600 SP: 3_0 Product: 256_1

and found a graphics card error. I think it means death .

This issue occurs if the graphics adapter is caught in an infinite loop while it waits for the video hardware to become idle. This can indicate that there is a problem with the video hardware, or that the graphics adapter cannot program the hardware correctly.
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Unread 21 April 17, 02:18   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pistoncup View Post
I Googled -
Error signature
BCCode: ea BCP1: 896EF020 BCP2: 8A337B28 BCP3: 89C7D298
BCP4: 00000001 OSVer: 5_1_2600 SP: 3_0 Product: 256_1

and found a graphics card error. I think it means death .

This issue occurs if the graphics adapter is caught in an infinite loop while it waits for the video hardware to become idle. This can indicate that there is a problem with the video hardware, or that the graphics adapter cannot program the hardware correctly.


Before I believed any error messages especially running XP
I would do a fresh clean format and OS, preferably on a spare HDD.

Then for mine best test you can do for his specs is install and run 3dmark2001 BEFORE you install anything else

If that falls over on a fresh OS you have issue

If it completes even one full loop of the tests I would say looking good

https://www.techpowerup.com/download...k-3dmark-2001/
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Unread 21 April 17, 15:47   #24
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Thanks guys.

I was going to start a new topic in Computech, but I think my woes are soon to come to an end! This update and one final post in a few days (or a couple of weeks, at the most) should wrap it up.

@pistoncup: Thanks for that information on the graphics card failure.

The friend of my son spent a couple of hours with me last night. He didn't have the chance to test my NVidia graphics card, because he said he found a point of failure on my motherboard. The GOOD news is that I'm moving on to better components. He brought with him an i7 CPU he's giving me, and also has a hard drive he'll install to either replace or be an addition to the old Maxtor 500 GB one that contains all of my game files.

The only really disappointing news of the night was that the nice 500-watt modular power supply I was given a few years ago does not work anymore. I'll need to buy a similar one (with two six-pin connectors) in order to use the Radeon HD 5850 GPU, so we couldn't complete the project last night. And since I don't even have $50 in disposable income right now to spend on a new power unit, it'll have to wait until my next payday!

But when I DO, this is what I'll have:

Gigabyte Poseidon case
500-watt power supply
Cooler Master Hyper 48 with 92mm fan and "PWM and Thermal Control Function"
Intel i7 CPU
Motherboard from the Dell XPS 8100 (compatible)
DDR2 RAM (8 GB, I think, but could be more, just can't remember)
Windows 10
Radeon HD 5850 GPU
CD-ROM
BluRay/DVD drive
2 hard drives!

Then life will be even sweeter than before!

Last edited by Wee Scot; 21 April 17 at 16:08.
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Unread 21 April 17, 18:37   #25
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@ WeeScott: Those are really great news, and at least you've got yourself trusty assistance in the process. I think that new system will be even better in the end than you already antecipate!

First, what may be a bit of good news. The Dell XPS 8100 motherboards were H57 chipset (AFAIK), which means that it will be using DDR3 ram (not DDR2), which is faster and easier to upgrade (if ever needed), and the CPU that system may be using could very well be an Intel i7-860 (was quite a powerhouse, still good today).


Now, regarding the PSU, excuse me if I extend too much with the following advice.

Please consider a 600W PSU, and not a 500W one.
I say this because the PSU bare minimum recommendation for the HD5850 is 500W, and 40 Amps available on the +12 volts rails.
Considering that you'll be using an Intel i7 Lynnfield CPU (to fit the Dell XPS 8100 mobo) which will consume about 180W on load, then placing it together with that HD5850 (some 160W on load), plus all the remaining hardware and peripherals, then it'll certainly be much better spending just a few dollars more for a 600W PSU, simply to invest in safety (by giving it some headroom).

Get one that is at least 80+Bronze rated, and avoid the cheaper models to avoid regrets later.
(if curious, here and here are two places where you can see some sort of quality rating for most PSUs in the market)

Maybe not needed but, in anycase, I'll list three PSUs that are my personal "go to" options, for best quality 600W PSUs at the lowest price:


PS: the links to Newegg are just to show specific model, specs and price for North America.
These three are very popular PSUs and should be available in most respectable PC shops.
.

Last edited by DucFreak; 22 April 17 at 01:01.
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Unread 23 April 17, 07:23   #26
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@DucFreak
Thanks again for such helpful advice! I will indeed get one of the 600 watt power units you recommend. Do all three of the ones you linked from newegg have the two "six-pin connectors" I need to use the Radeon 5850? If so, I'll probably go for the SeaSonic M12II 620 80+ Bronze, since my son's friend advised me to get a modular one.

And that's great news about the motherboard he's giving me packing DDR3 RAM, too. I must have misunderstood him. While I'm thinking about it, how much RAM do you think would be useful for the games you know I play? And will my "new" system be capable of running Assetto Corsa at a decent frame rate? How much RAM would I need for that?

Finally, does the Dell XPS 8100 motherboard have on-board sound, or will I need to get a soundcard? My son's friend didn't say anything about that.

Last edited by Wee Scot; 23 April 17 at 07:34.
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Unread 23 April 17, 08:16   #27
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I would think the 5850 would run AC with low settings at okay FPS, depends on the resolution

Personally I would rather run GTR2 GTL etc in full glory and use the AC money on the PC

Minimum requirements is a AMD6450 which would not pull the skin off a rice pudding so the 5850 should do okay


This should give you an idea ( I just googled Assetto Corsa AMD 5850 )

And your i7 is faster then a Phenom, should allow you to run more cars, looked like he ran 12 cars



If you pause the utube you may be able to see settings he selected, too blurry a video for my eyes lool

Major limit to you would be 1GB of Vram

Motherboard has Realtek 5.1 will sound "okay" with decent speakers or headphone

Assetto Corsa minimum is 2GB of Ram ............4GB should be fine, 8GB would be nice

Last edited by DurgeDriven; 23 April 17 at 08:27.
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Unread 23 April 17, 15:03   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
@DucFreak
Thanks again for such helpful advice! I will indeed get one of the 600 watt power units you recommend. Do all three of the ones you linked from newegg have the two "six-pin connectors" I need to use the Radeon 5850? If so, I'll probably go for the SeaSonic M12II 620 80+ Bronze, since my son's friend advised me to get a modular one.
No problem. Glad if it can help.

Yes, any of those three PSUs listed are prepared for any modern system, and any graphics-card.
Which means that you'll probably be also able to re-use it again in another system after this one.

In the case of the Seasonic M12II 620, these are the connections you'll see in it:
  • 1 x 24-pin Main Connector
  • 1 x 8-pin CPU
  • 4 x 6+2-pin PCIE
  • 8 x SATA
  • 5 x Molex
  • 1 x FDD
It doesn't just have two 6+2 connectors for the PCIE. It has FOUR of them! lol

The Seasonic M12II 620 is great (like any Seasonic PSU, should be said), as good as it gets for the price.

BTW, I just noticed that Seasonic has made a small update to the M12II 620, now having an "EVO" label (see here). I believe the only difference is longer cables aimed at the latest stylish PC cases (for improved cable arrangement for these), otherwise it's the very same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
And that's great news about the motherboard he's giving me packing DDR3 RAM, too. I must have misunderstood him. While I'm thinking about it, how much RAM do you think would be useful for the games you know I play? How much RAM would I need?
I took a quick look at the motherboard for the Dell XPS 8100, and (AFAIK) there have been at least two versions (the T568R and the G3HR7), which are very identical.
Looking at them, and for whichever of the two motherboards, we can conclude a number of things for the RAM to be used:

1. that it has four slots for the RAM, for a maximum of 16GB total (so, each stick having 4GB at most).
2. that it supports DDR3 at 1066 MHz or 1333 MHz speeds.
3. that Dual-Channel seems to be the better option, which means, having memory in pairs of two (i.e, two or four sticks).

Regarding the total ammount of RAM to use, for that system I'd say to get 8GB.
16GB will be a tad overkill for that system, and expensive. On the opposite direction, 4GB will be too little, it'll become a bottleneck for sure (been there, done that).
So, 8GB is the perfect balanced ammount for that system. And it's not too expensive.
For about 50 bucks you can get very good 8GB kits (2x 4GB) of DDR3, and it's totally worth it.

Regarding the RAM memory speed, DDR3 1333 seems to be the best you can feed into that system motherboard. You can, however and as last resort, get faster DDR3 (say, 1600 MHz), as it'll also be able to run at slower speeds of 1333 Mhz.

I'd say that any 8GB kit (2x 4GB, for a total of 8GB) of DDR3 1333 should do just fine.
I'm not too sure about the low voltage DDR3 models (1,35v for the voltage, made for more modern systems), but I'm sure the ones with 1.5v or 1.6v will be perfect.

Just for examples, specification and price wise, here's a couple of good 8GB DDR3 1333 kits:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
Finally, does the Dell XPS 8100 motherboard have on-board sound, or will I need to get a soundcard? My son's friend didn't say anything about that.
As said above, the Dell XPS 8100 had at least two identical versions of motherboards (the T568R and the G3HR7). Just by looking at the rear panel ports of any of the two versions, one can see that they were packed with features. (heck, even had Firewire support!)
Whichever version of motherboard, it has onboard sound. The audio slots in the rear panel ports show that it's ready for any analog speaker system, up to 7.1 surround inclusively.

The Dell XPS 8100 was sold also as a gaming system, so be sure that it is ready for that, sound wise.
I'm not sure if you have access to the motherboard drivers, which do include the drivers for the onboard soundcard, but I suspect even the generic ones from Windows 7/8/10 will be ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
And will my "new" system be capable of running Assetto Corsa at a decent frame rate?
I left this one for last.

Not to be a party pooper but, from experience, I don't think you'll be capable of running Assetto Corsa with the HD5850 1GB at a consistent, decent framerate.
I mean, you can run it, sure. But it won't be smooth and pretty like it's intended to.

The problem is that, while Assetto Corsa is not as graphically demanding as Project CARS, it still is a demanding game.
While your Intel i7 processor will be fine, that game needs at least 2GB of VRAM in the graphics card, and a lot more performance than what an HD5850 1GB can deliver.
Unfortunately, it's like that for most modern games launched in the last three years or so.
You can, of course, try it with reduced graphics settings, see if it's ok.

One thing is certain - with that new system, all the games you're used to play, plus hundreds of others you never tried (or couldn't run untill now), will perform in ways you could only dream of untill now.
.

Last edited by DucFreak; 23 April 17 at 21:33. Reason: spelling...(?)
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Unread 23 April 17, 18:29   #29
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Thanks again to both of you for taking the time to walk me through this "traumatic" but ultimately "game-enhancing" transition! As you know, I'm still quite content driving 2006 and older racing sims (and their subsequent wonderful mods and facelifts). There's a lot more enjoyment in store for me in my GTR2, PnG, GPL, and even GP4 and SBK2001/2008! I'll check in again one more time after I finally have Xavier back over to put it all together for (with?) me!
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Unread 23 April 17, 23:15   #30
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I can't understand how 4GB is a bottleneck when I used full detail on all the old sims he runs for years and years

I think the 5850 will run AC as I said lowest settings and just okay
I ran early AC on GTX460 it has 1GB vram and ran very well

5850 after all is faster then 6850 and the stutter Duc could have been related to anything if it was ages ago ....build, drivers , optimization, etc

But it is a risk spending the money thats why I said spend the $30+ AC will cost on headphones or something else
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Unread 24 April 17, 00:31   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DurgeDriven View Post
I can't understand how 4GB is a bottleneck when I used full detail on all the old sims he runs for years and years

I think the 5850 will run AC as I said lowest settings and just okay
I ran early AC on GTX460 it has 1GB vram and ran very well

5850 after all is faster then 6850 and the stutter Duc could have been related to anything if it was ages ago ....build, drivers , optimization, etc

But it is a risk spending the money thats why I said spend the $30+ AC will cost on headphones or something else
No. Just... no.
Hear me out with the following:

1. On the 4GB as total of RAM (which is not enough).

The thing with 4GB RAM is what happens when you try a game that consumes more RAM than expected, as in "more than what was usual for the time that ammount of mem was OK" (some 7 or 8 years ago).
Unless you're sticking with old racing sims forever (and also avoiding the beloved LAA patch, which helps a lot also with plenty old games), you know it will be a bottleneck, and then crave for those 8GB you did not went for.

Heck, I too was using 4GB of RAM for a good while by force (bad overclocking, excess voltage fried motherboard and one of the sticks of RAM was also cooked in the process).
It was awful.
Once one gets past the old games and tries something newer and heavier, that RAM consumption can easily overwhelm that 4GB ceiling. When that happens, it feeds from the page file, and for games that isn't a smooth affair.

As you know, the OS itself consumes half of that on average (~2GB), and every newer version of all the popular AVs now also consume more RAM.
At a certain point, one is doing all sorts of gimnastiques with background processes and system services, just to free enough RAM so that the game you're about to run can devour what is left. And that is if you're a computer savvy guy. If not, "tough luck".

Say what you will, sticking with 4GB instead of 8GB is delaying a necessary upgrade that you will regret not doing earlier.
Just go for 8GB and enjoy that system with peace of mind, with that headroom space, and all the other benefits that come with that. That's why PC upgrades are done and enjoyed for.


2. On the 1GB AMD GPU and Assetto Corsa (which will bottleneck).

I had a HD6870 1GB (XFX Black Edition, and thoroughly OC'ed). Quite a bit faster than an HD6850, and also faster than an HD5850 1GB (quick comparo of specifications here if needed).

Durge, you did not experience bigger issues with your GTX460 because that's Nvidia.
AC, like most newer sims of recent years, loves Nvidia and does not enjoy AMD GPUs (and CPUs).
That can make a HUGE difference. Lucky you not experiencing all that (now common) BS.
I've spent ages trying to tweak that stupid game for better performance. Wasted time.

With 1GB of VRAM in the GPU, AC will be certainly exceeding that (I remember seeing over 1.5GB being pulled) and then, as it hits over the VRAM limit of the GPU, start feeding the rest from the RAM (and again, back to the problem in 1.).
Maybe you had 8GB of good memory at the time you ran AC with the GTX460, Durge?

Of course, if one tries to play with all texture details down, and shader effects low or off, no shadows and no AA, and low screen resolution (sub-HD), then 1GB will do. But then it'll look absolutely horrible.

I fully agree that spending the cash on AC is wasted (get other game, or some gaming accessory, etc). But then I say that for reasons that go well beyond the problems which that system would have with it.
Automobilista by Reiza will be a much better option than AC, for that system (and any other, IMO ).
Older games, like GTR2, GTL, Race07 and Rfactor1, at high or max details, with various updates and mods, can still look, feel and sound really good, and that system will take them, "no sweat".
.

Last edited by DucFreak; 24 April 17 at 02:06. Reason: spelling...(?)
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Unread 24 April 17, 02:28   #32
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Yeah I did have 8GB of ram + GTX460

I agree no reflections shadows hi res mirrors AC look worse then cartoon rF2 they talk about lol
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