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Unread 16 May 17, 17:20   #1
Wee Scot
 
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Default Wee Scot's "new" gaming rig, and W10/GTR2 Qs

Okay, guys! It's all running and looking good!

Here's what I've got:
  • Gigabyte Poseidon case
  • Antec Neo ECO 620C PSU (sorry I didn't get a SeaSonic, DucFreak, but at just $35 used, I couldn't resist!)
  • Intel Core i7 CPU (870 @ 2.93GHz)
  • 8 GB of DDR3 RAM
  • Radeon HD 5850 GPU (1 GB), connected by HDMI to...
  • Panasonic TH-42PZ700U (2007 42" HD plasma television, with rich sound)
  • Windows 10 Enterprise (64-bit OS, x64-based processor)
  • Western Digital WD7501AAES-75W7A0 (750 GB)
  • Maxtor 7L250S0 (250 GB)
  • PLDS DVDRWBD DH-6E2S (from the Dell Studio XPS, Blu-ray capable?)
  • NETGEAR WNA3100 N300 Wireless USB Adapter
  • Logitech G25
  • Thrustmaster TH8RS Gearbox
  • XL20 Xlerator Wheel Stand
  • IKEA Poang leather chair
  • Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse

Last night I moved a bunch of folders I had on the desktop of the old hard drive to the Windows 10 desktop generated from the new(er) hard drive. These folders contain copies of mod applications and cars/tracks I'd downloaded over the years, along with some documents I created to keep track of changes I've made to my games and general good advice. The nine folders contain a total of about 8 GB of data.

So, my first question is: Is it okay to put that much data on the desktop, or does that affect overall performance in some way, that I should move them into Documents?

Second Question: Is the i7 (870 at 2.93GHz) my son's friend gave me clearly better for gaming than the Core 2 Duo E8500 (3.16GHz, 6 MB of L2 cache) I was given four years ago?

Third Question: Should I start with the Windows Game Controllers ("Set up USB game controllers") under Devices and Printers to configure my G25 and TH8RS, or should I skip this and use either Logitech and Thrustmaster configuration applications, or applications someone(s) else created for the simracing community?

Fourth Question: Should I really go to the trouble of partitioning the 750 GB hard drive the way you suggested, DurgeDriven? Is that what you mean when you say I should "shrink" the C drive to only the space necessary to run basic processes, then create other drives? When I asked him, my son's friend said that wasn't necessary for my purposes, that he only partitions hard drives if he needs to run both Windows and Linux on the same. Right now, the WD 750 is drive C, and the Maxtor 250 is drive E (DVD is drive D). I'm not planning to put anything else on these hard drives other than games and BobsTrackBuilder Evo.

Fifth Question: Where do you suggest I put the several GTR2 installations (Original, Open Wheel, etc.--separate ones for different groups of cars), PnG, GTL, Grand Prix Legends (Original and '65, '66, '69, '67 GT Sportscars, '71 CanAm, and the new '55 mod), SBK '08, SBK2001, and Grand Prix 4?

Sixth Question: What EXACTLY should I do--in what order--to freshly install these older games? Should I start with my original discs? Then updates/patches? A guy at grandprixgames.org suggested I use an installation program for GP4 I can download that's already updated and patched.

That's about all I have time for now!
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Unread 16 May 17, 22:57   #2
DucFreak
 
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Nice! All in all, it's set.

That Antec Neo ECO 620 is a decent PSU, that was a fairly good deal.
The only two (very small) issues I see with it is, first, not being "Haswell ready" (for newest processors, C6 and C7 low-power state can be problematic) and, second, not meant for ubber hungry GPU models (needing 2x 8pin PCIE), so probably not recommended for your next computer after this one.
But then, it's nothing to worry about, at all, in this particular PC.

From what I see, maybe a better GPU could be the next "upgrade" to think about later.
That is not a cheap upgrade, though, and that HD5850 1GB can still be good for a while (just not with the latest games).

Ok, now to your questions:

Quote:
(note: the first question I left for later)

Second Question: Is the i7 (870 at 2.93GHz) my son's friend gave me clearly better for gaming than the Core 2 Duo E8500 (3.16GHz, 6 MB of L2 cache) I was given four years ago?
Compared to your older C2D E8500, it is noticeably more efficient, faster and potent all around.
That i7 870 is a great processor, and much, much better on every possible task, not just gaming.
Hard to quantify, but I'd say from 50% to 200% faster, depending on scenario and software/game.
What matters is that you'll notice the great increase in performance, surely, especially with that new Win10 64bit OS.

The only issue with that family of processors was the heat they produce (besides the high price).
Not sure your Dell motherboard support aftermarket coolers(?) but, if yours is running with the stock Intel cooler (which is very weak), I'd think about it. That processor is worth it.

While there are newer and much better processors today, there is really no game (even recent ones), that i7 870 can not run decently.
Meaning, you'll be safe in the processor performance aspect for quite a while yet.

Quote:
Third Question: Should I start with the Windows Game Controllers ("Set up USB game controllers") under Devices and Printers to configure my G25 and TH8RS, or should I skip this and use either Logitech and Thrustmaster configuration applications, or applications someone(s) else created for the simracing community?
I'm not an expert with Win10 and so now it could be totally different but, at least with Win7, I usually prefer the device's own driver settings over what Windows has for that.
That is, as long as the drivers/software is compatible with the operating system, of course.

Quote:
Fourth Question: Should I really go to the trouble of partitioning the 750 GB hard drive the way you suggested, DurgeDriven? Is that what you mean when you say I should "shrink" the C drive to only the space necessary to run basic processes, then create other drives? When I asked him, my son's friend said that wasn't necessary for my purposes, that he only partitions hard drives if he needs to run both Windows and Linux on the same. Right now, the WD 750 is drive C, and the Maxtor 250 is drive E (DVD is drive D). I'm not planning to put anything else on these hard drives other than games and BobsTrackBuilder Evo.
That WD 750 is a good 7200RPM HDD, and should be a bit faster than that older Maxtor 250.

In your specific case (having those two HDD), I'd use the faster HDD for Operating System, and games as well, as it will load things faster and run much better.

If the older and slower HDD is still working fine enough to trust it as a "library", then use that mainly for archives and downloads.

I would agree that, although not really necessary, it's much better to have a separate partition just for the Operating System.

For that newer WD 750 HDD (again, not necessary, but) maybe consider having a separate partition just for the Operating System (about 80GB is enough).
And then, along with that, another separate partition for games and some other archives (which could be the rest of the disc, or that big remaining space divided into other two partitions, as you wish).

The reason for going for such procedure has mainly to do with efficiency (so not just organization), with the speed of access and fragmentation of files in the HDD.
The more files you put in one partition, copy/paste, delete, on and on, the more it will fragment files along in the disc space. Which, in time, then becomes slower.
And if you've ever defragged an HDD partition you know it can be a PITA to wait for that to finish (the bigger the partition, the more time it takes to defrag too).

So, having a (smaller) partition just for the OS, with less files and less chance to become fragmented, can be more efficient.
Not to mention that there's less files to become damaged, in case that partition goes "boink".

Quote:
So, my first question is: Is it okay to put that much data on the desktop, or does that affect overall performance in some way, that I should move them into Documents?
I left this one for later, as it is related with the fourth question (previously answered).

While the desktop is, in itself, just another folder under Windows, having items on your desktop does in fact have an impact on the overall performance of the computer.
You'd be also filling the partition used for the operating system, unnecessarily, with such files.

A more "organized" way to do the same thing would be to create a folder in the partition meant for archives ("D:" drive, whatever it's called), and then create a desktop shortcut for that folder, if the main issue is simply quick access(?).

Quote:
Fifth Question: Where do you suggest I put the several GTR2 installations (Original, Open Wheel, etc.--separate ones for different groups of cars), PnG, GTL, Grand Prix Legends (Original and '65, '66, '69, '67 GT Sportscars, '71 CanAm, and the new '55 mod), SBK '08, SBK2001, and Grand Prix 4?
Already answered - games installed preferentially on the faster HDD.

Quote:
Sixth Question: What EXACTLY should I do--in what order--to freshly install these older games? Should I start with my original discs? Then updates/patches? A guy at grandprixgames.org suggested I use an installation program for GP4 I can download that's already updated and patched.

That's about all I have time for now!
It depends.

Some games have an older and infamous version of StarForce, the protection used on the respective disc copy, which is extremely(!) harmfull to modern versions of Windows (Vista/7/8/8.1/10).
These should NOT be installed in any modern operating system, never, ever, or it can totally frak up things, very quickly.

One notorious example is GT-Legends, and also GTR (aka GTR1, not to confuse with its sequel, GTR2).

If you want to install GT-Legends on your new PC, then follow this thread:

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=344840

Same procedure can be used for GTR1.

GTR2 can be installed from the CD/DVD (it uses Securom, and a version which is OK with newer OSs).
But it can also be installed with same procedure (from Steam) as mentioned for GT-Legends and GTR1.


With that said, there is one curious (usually undiscussed) detail that may help you though.
All SIMBIN games of last decade (GTR2, GT-Legends, GTR1, Race07, GTREvo) can be copied directly from another HDD, and usually still work fine like that.

For example, if you have an installation of GTR2 with a heap of mods in an older HDD (even if from other computer), which require a lot of work to recreate again, you can copy that big game installation folder directly into your new HDD (otherwise, over a brand new game installation).


One important thing is to make sure these games are made to run compatible with Win10.

In the case of SIMBIN games, this means that, for the game executable and also the config.exe, to make sure administrator rights are set.

If not sure how to do this, for each of these two files, right-mouse click and select "Properties", and then, in the "Compatibility" tab, look for "Run this program as administrator" and put a check on it. Click "Apply" to save the changes.

It should not be necessary, but some do report that running these files also with "Windows XP SP3 compability mode" help as well, so you may wish to try that too.
This is found in the same area where you put administrator rights.

. . .
Not really sure what to do in the case of GPL.
In my case, I went through the trouble of reinstalling the whole thing again, meaning, GPL 1965 and 1967, plus tracks and many updates/improvements.
Took me a while, unfortunately, but at least it's running clean as a whistle.

. . .
I'm not sure SBK2001 runs ok with any OS released after XP, but it's worth a try.
That old dog is irreplaceable, but I'd suggest SBK-X or SBK Legends (for WSBK sim) and also MotoGP 2013 or MotoGP'08 (for MotoGP sim), as these will run good on that system.

. . .
Can't talk about GP4, as I never gave it propper attention.
If there are communities for that game, I'd suggest looking for their answers for that, as there may be updated/corrected/patched installers around (made by the community) for newer operating systems.


Last edited by DucFreak; 17 May 17 at 06:28. Reason: ...added more info (ooops... the wall of text!)
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Unread 16 May 17, 23:47   #3
Wee Scot
 
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Thanks so much for carefully considering each of my questions! I hope you know how much it means to me that you would spend so much time helping "a perfect stranger."



Quote:
Originally Posted by DucFreak View Post
The only issue with that family of processors was the heat they produced (besides the high price, as usual with Intel).
The heat issues are something that newer Intel models have (also) vastly improved in following architectures.
Not sure your Dell motherboard support aftermarket coolers(?) but, if yours is running with the stock Intel cooler (which is very weak), I'd think about it.
Xavier's comment, when I asked him about installing the Cooler Master Hyper 48 CPU cooler (92 mm fan and "copper stacking fins with with four heat pipes...") I got along with the Core 2 Duo CPU and Radeon 5850 a few years ago from my friend in Baltimore, was that, running at only 2.93 GHz, my i7 CPU shouldn't need additional cooling. But if he's mistaken, I'll explain it to him and ask him to install it!

......

Third Question: Should I start with the Windows Game Controllers ("Set up USB game controllers") under Devices and Printers to configure my G25 and TH8RS, or should I skip this and use either Logitech and Thrustmaster configuration applications, or applications someone(s) else created for the simracing community?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DucFreak View Post
I'm not an expert with Win10 and so now it could be totally different but, at least with Win7, I usually prefer the device's own driver settings over what Windows has for that.
That is, as long as the software is compatible with the operating system, of course.
ARE there any issues with using the G25 or TH8RS with W10? Anyone???

EDIT: The Logitech website offers Gaming Controller software version 5.10.127 for 32-bit or 64-bit. I assume I need the 64-bit, correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DucFreak View Post
If the older and slower HDD is still working fine enough to trust it as a "library", then use that mainly for archives and downloads.
Sounds like a good plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DucFreak View Post
For that newer WD 750 HDD, I would agree that, although not necessary, it's better to have a separate partition just for the Operating System (90GB is enough).
And then another separate partition for games and some other archives.
And how do I do that, exactly?

In a May 2 post in the "gtr2 and Power & Glory not working with Windows 10" topic in GTR2 forum, DurgeDriven wrote:
Say if your new PC has a 1TB drive and is all C:\ drive
Before you get too much on it in Disk Management you can shrink C:\Drive just big enough to support your Operating system and Main Apps, say 100GB to be on the safe side.

Then create D:\ to 800GB+ drive with the free space
or D:\ E:\ 400GB each, whatever you like

The more programs you can isolate from C:\ drive the less defragmentation the faster it will boot and do other stuff.
But just how do I "shrink" the C drive and "create" additional drives? Can you walk me through that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DucFreak View Post
While the desktop is, in itself, just another folder under Windows, having items on your desktop DOES in fact have an impact on the overall performance of the computer.
You'd be also filling the partition used for the operating system (C, unnecessarily.

A more "organized" way to do the same thing would be to create a folder for archives in the "D:" drive, and then create a desktop shortcut for that folder if the issue is simple quick access (?).
Actually, I'll create the Archives folder on my drive E (the old HDD), and then create desktop shortcuts. Thanks for explaining that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DucFreak View Post
All SIMBIN games of last decade (GTR2, GT-Legends, GTR1) can be copied from another HDD, and usually still work fine like that.

For example, if you have an installation of GTR2 with a heap of mods in an older HDD (even if from other computer), which require a lot of work to recreate again, you can copy that big installation folder into your new GTR2 installation.

One important thing is to make sure they are made to run compatible with Win10.

For the game executable and also the config.exe, make sure administrator rights are set.

If not sure how to do this, for each of these three files, right-mouse click and select "Properties", and then, in the "Compatibility" tab, look for "Run this program as administrator" and put a check on it. Click "Apply" to save the changes.

It should not be necessary, but some do report that running these files also with "Windows XP SP3 compability mode" help as well, so you may wish to try that too.
This is found in the same area where you put administrator rights.
Thanks. Actually, kunc described doing a fresh install of GTR2 ("to satisfy the registry"), then replacing all of the folders below the root directory with his old GTR2 folders. Is this what you mean?

Last edited by Wee Scot; 17 May 17 at 00:16.
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Unread 17 May 17, 00:57   #4
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Wee Scot,
You may have seen this thread, but if not, it might be relevant. I did encounter the "Configuration Loop" when I tried to add additional GTR2 folders from my previous system.

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=367866

As I recall, once I had a "fresh" installation of GTR2 on my Windows 10 system, I was able to copy over my additional GTR2 folders "GTR2_OpenWheel", "GTR2_Power&Glory", "GTR2_GTL" etc. into my "D:\RacingSims" folder. I then sent the GTR2.exe from each to the desktop, changed its properties (Run as Admin, and Compatibility to XP SP3) and ran it from there. Note that the GTR2.exe is the no-cd version.

Additionally, I applied the 4 GB Patch and the Processor Affinity Program to each. There has been some back and forth as to whether or not those are needed, but I can report that it greatly improved performance for me. I'm certainly not an expert on this, and I'm only going by memory. I'm sure you get it worked out and you'll be happy you made the upgrade.
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Unread 17 May 17, 01:52   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
Thanks so much for carefully considering each of my questions! I hope you know how much it means to me that you would spend so much time helping "a perfect stranger."
It's ok mate.
Perhaps, at some point, you too get interested by this stuff, enough to not just understand and do it all yourself from here on, but to assist others sometimes as well.

Quote:
Xavier's comment, when I asked him about installing the Cooler Master Hyper 48 CPU cooler (92 mm fan and "copper stacking fins with with four heat pipes...") I got along with the Core 2 Duo CPU and Radeon 5850 a few years ago from my friend in Baltimore, was that, running at only 2.93 GHz, my i7 CPU shouldn't need additional cooling. But if he's mistaken, I'll explain it to him and ask him to install it!
This is complicated to be really exact, because there's a lot of variables. From temps in room, to PC case, general usage, and so on.

That i7 870 processor is 95W TDP, and it can draw up to ~180W from the wall socket on full load.
Surely not as bad as the i7 920 (130W TDP) I had around here once (good as heater on winter! lol), but still pretty "hot".

The games you're currently using (for now) are old, single-core based, less than 2.5 GB of RAM consumption (at most), graphics not really overwhelming for that GPU. Overall, not extraordinary demanding for that hardware on your new system.

It's all good for those.
And your friend is correct in the sense that, at stock speeds, the stock cooler should be just fine.

Untill it isn't.

The problem is when you get into more demanding, heavier and more complex software/games, using more cores in the processor (some now can even push all the logical cores), and put your graphics-card at 99% of usage, especially the 64-bit based ones, which can push a LOT more RAM (upwards of 4GB just for the game itself). Enough to justify that power and start stressing components there.

That is a scenario where a lot of heat will be building inside your case, in the components (motherboard included), on and on, sometimes for hours of gaming.
Heat is bad for both the reliability (mid/long term) and the performance of components (throttling).
The Gigabyte Poseidon was a very decent case, but it's not really well ventilated.

You should consider an aftermarket CPU cooler, if not just for the peace of mind, certainly for the added reliability on a gaming system. What you first need to know is if your Dell motherboard can support an aftermarket cooler (I'm almost sure it does, but...).

I'm not so sure that CM Hyper48 will fit.
EDIT: It's rated for 68W TDP. Regardless of fitting, it's too weak for the i7 870 (95W TDP). Unlikely to be better than stock Intel cooler.

If you can install an aftermarket cooler on that motherboard, and confused on what to get under a tight budget, then any of the following coolers are pretty good (rated for 150W TDP) and very affordable (20 bucks), they're LGA1156 compatible and will surely fit that case (they're not too tall, 92mm fan).
Best to worse, from top to bottom:

One last note of curiosity..... the i7 870 stock speed of 2.93Ghz is without turbo. When the turbo kicks in, it can go upto 3.60GHz. That's freakin excelent.
More over, with the right cooling and motherboard, it can overclock (hot-rodding stuff!) to a fixed clock speed of over 4.20Ghz(!), but I digress. lol
Anyway, that i7 870 is a hot little beast that deserves the better cooling, IMO.

Quote:
And how do I do that, exactly?

In a May 2 post in the "gtr2 and Power & Glory not working with Windows 10" topic in GTR2 forum, DurgeDriven wrote:
Say if your new PC has a 1TB drive and is all C:\ drive
Before you get too much on it in Disk Management you can shrink C:\Drive just big enough to support your Operating system and Main Apps, say 100GB to be on the safe side.

Then create D:\ to 800GB+ drive with the free space
or D:\ E:\ 400GB each, whatever you like

The more programs you can isolate from C:\ drive the less defragmentation the faster it will boot and do other stuff.
But just how do I "shrink" the C drive and "create" additional drives? Can you walk me through that?
Well, that is the problem. You'd have to reformat the HDD to create the partitions.
Meaning, go through the whole process of reinstalling and configuring every single thing again in that disc (Windows and etc).

Right now, you seem to have all things already set to go (the honeymoon phase lol), and so I suspect it's unlikely for you to go through that trouble all over again.
If so, maybe leave that option/idea in your head, to consider and perhaps do at some point later on.

Right now, if you don't want to bother with this, and having just one partition for that big WD 750GB HDD (which is "C:", I guess), then what I'd recommend is to create folders in that single partition on the disk, according to type of files, and be very strict about that organization.
I.e, one folder just for games to be installed, a folder just for archives to be placed on, another just for your modding/editing stuff, maybe other for music, and other for pics (etc, etc), each with its own related sub-folders (surely you get the idea).

I strongly suggest to get Defraggler: https://www.piriform.com/defraggler

The free version is good enough, and the stock settings are "ready to go" after installation (no real need to mess with settings). It can do quick defrag or thorough defrag, all depending on your time/needs.
After installation and reboot, when you right click on any folder, you have an option "Defraggler", which then itself has two choices:
  • see level of fragmentation
  • defragment
Meaning, you can do defragment on separate and individual folders, whenever you need. For example, after installing one huge game in the HDD, it's good to defrag the entire directory (if not possible/wanted to do whole partition).
So, with it, although it's still good idea to periodically defrag one entire partition at once (the whole disc, in your case), there's less need to do it as frequently.

Quote:
Thanks. Actually, kunc described doing a fresh install of GTR2 ("to satisfy the registry"), then replacing all of the folders below the root directory with his old GTR2 folders. Is this what you mean?
Correct.

Win10 is different in this aspect of registry, it seems.
Win7 is not "bothered" about having the game reinstalled or not (you could just copy the whole installation folder from some other computer and it would work presto!). But, as Kunc says, Win10 is different and picky with that, and so you should first reinstall the game, yes.

EDIT: Kunc has replied above, with added details.


Last edited by DucFreak; 18 May 17 at 12:29. Reason: ...more info, more wall of text!
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Unread 17 May 17, 02:35   #6
Wee Scot
 
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Thanks again for this conversation. I have to get some sleep now, but I'll pick this up again tomorrow!

One more thing for you to consider, though, before I log out:

I tried to install the Logitech Gaming Controller software version 5.10.127 (64-bit). It downloaded fine, but when I installed it and plugged my G25 into a USB port in response to the software prompt, the Logitech program didn't "see" it. I also immediately experienced problems with both my Logitech mouse and Logitech keyboard (both wireless). The mouse would freeze, then jump on screen, and the keyboard was almost unusable, as keystrokes wouldn't appear on screen until many seconds late. Unable to benefit from the Gaming Controller software, and thinking maybe it was the source of my mouse and keyboard problems, I uninstalled it, but then realized that it was having the G25 plugged into a case-front USB port that was so dramatically affecting performance of the mouse and keyboard, the receivers for both of which are in USB ports at the rear of the case. Any idea why having the G25 plugged in affects the mouse and keyboard performance? Am I experiencing a "conflict" between the case-front USB ports and the case-rear USB ports?

This is really depressing, because this was the first time I'd actually tried to play GTR2 and PnG--which are on the "old" HDD--by right-clicking on the EXE files in the game folders and selecting "Troubleshoot compatibility". This led to W10 choosing--as I expected--"XP SP3" compatibility, but, while I was able to go into the Control settings and recalibrate the steering, accelerator and brakes on the X and Y axes so I could drive the cars, I couldn't get force feedback to work, and the mouse cursor would freeze and jerk across the menu screens.

Tomorrow I'll finally try a fresh install of GTR2 on the newer HDD and see if I experience these same problems...
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Unread 17 May 17, 03:27   #7
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Could be many things:

- Driver conflicts
- Wrong drivers used
- PowerSupply issues
- Motherboard issues

....but this if painting a bad scenario.

Just for a test, get to the former state, i.e, uninstall the Logitech drivers, reboot, see how it goes with the (default) drivers from Windows.

If no go, then try the very latest Logitech Gaming software (choose 64-bit version), which is also for Win10 and (AFAIK) also supports all recent past Logitech products, and see how it goes:

http://support.logitech.com/en_us/software/lgs


You should always try to connect your wheel/pedals to its own USB slot in the back panel of your motherboard.
Avoid using controller devices (keyboards, mouses, gamepads, wheels, etc) on the case front USBs or with any USB HUBs, as that can also cause issues.

In theory, even the budget cheapest motherboards are ready for the 500mA requirement for USB in every single slot. But the truth is that there's usually additional voltage drop over the cables that run to the front USBs, causing inumerous issues.
That's not counting with possible issues motherboards sometimes have when all USBs slots are busy, regardless of PSU capabilities.

In the case of devices like the G25 wheel/pedals/shifter combo, even if it also has its own PSU drawing power from the wall socket, sometimes it can draw more than 500mA, so could be as to why the front USBs don't work so well. And why the rear USBs usually work better.
.

Last edited by DucFreak; 17 May 17 at 03:52.
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Unread 17 May 17, 03:34   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot;1940095

And how do I do that, exactly?

In a May 2 post in the "gtr2 and Power & Glory not working with Windows 10" topic in GTR2 forum, DurgeDriven wrote:[INDENT
Say if your new PC has a 1TB drive and is all C:\ drive
Before you get too much on it in Disk Management you can shrink C:\Drive just big enough to support your Operating system and Main Apps, say 100GB to be on the safe side.

Then create D:\ to 800GB+ drive with the free space
or D:\ E:\ 400GB each, whatever you like

The more programs you can isolate from C:\ drive the less defragmentation the faster it will boot and do other stuff.
[/INDENT]But just how do I "shrink" the C drive and "create" additional drives? Can you walk me through that?

Yeah I was using a fresh empty HD as the example, soz

( as Duc explained you would have to physically remove everything from the drives )

1TB as that would fit everything you have was my thinking

New 1TB Sata will be faster then your other 2 drives
and fit everything on it making your other 2 drives storage

Check a big file transfer between your 2 existing drives, my guess would be about 60mbs sustained where a new Sata will do up to 130mbs or 100% faster

Meaning you get more stuff done in same time period

In that scenario you would:

1. Install W10 on 1TB a partition of your need and allow for good free space
2. Partition rest of 1TB how you see fit
3. Connect old drives up
4. Copy everything you want to 1TB
5. W10 disk management partition/ format the 2 old drives

6. Optional: Anything you want a full backup off the 1TB copy back to the fresh old drives

At that point if you had no need for the archive space better to disconnect
the power leads on the old drives till you need the storage and/or backups
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Unread 17 May 17, 06:05   #9
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it's the 2 logitech drivers conflicting. I get the problem with a new windows install when installing Logitech G15 keyboard and G25 gaming drivers . I think it's Logitech naming issue. One wipes out the other.

I haven't reinstalled windows for a while but I'm thinking from memory you have to install the drivers in order this way, - install G25 drivers first before the keyboard drivers , restart PC, get the G25 working , you may have to replug the G25 usb cable, then install the keyboard drivers 2nd .

Last edited by pistoncup; 17 May 17 at 06:37.
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Unread 17 May 17, 11:17   #10
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Thanks, guys. All helpful information, and when I NEXT have 4 or 8 hours of free time, I'll try your suggestions!

Goddamnit, this is why I was in no hurry to give up XP and my Pentium D(inosaur), with which I had all my racing games so satisfyingly tweeked. I suppose it's too late now to pull it apart and just use the old hard drive running XP.

Also, I've ALWAYS used case-front USB ports to connect my driving wheel(s) and gear shifters, and never experienced a problem. Didn't want to keep them plugged in all the time (needed to store the wheels and pedals stand in a closet when not in use), and nothing's more annoying than having to drag the computer tower out from under the table holding the monitor every time I want to connect!

Geez....

This is TWICE now in less than a week that I've gone from elation to despair! Don't know how much more my heart can take!

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Unread 17 May 17, 12:19   #11
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@pistoncup: Thanks, I'll try that later this morning. Do I have to manually delete ALL Logitech drivers first? I didn't consciously install any drivers when I connected the wireless keyboard and wireless mouse. I just put the receivers in USB ports and let Microsoft identify the "new devices". Same with the G25: when I got it three years ago, I just plugged it in and used the Microsoft Game Controllers dialog boxes to calibrate it and it worked fine, fully functional with strong FFB. I even used it to make changes in the lock-to-lock degrees of steering. What do I need to use now???
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Unread 17 May 17, 14:32   #12
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You need to install dx9 . W10 has dx9 but not all of it. You should at least install the logitech gaming software for your wheel. Windows will just install generic drivers for the G25/27.
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Unread 17 May 17, 15:24   #13
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But wait, doesn't W10 come with DirectX 11? Now you're telling me I need to go back to DirectX 9 in order to use the G25??? And do I need to UN-install DX11 first, or after, or will installing DirectX 9 automatically remove DX11, or can the two "live together" on my hard drive???

If I were any more confused and frustrated, I'd be in a mental hospital!
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Unread 17 May 17, 16:24   #14
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@DurgeDriven: Just downloaded your massive GTR2 Essentials, but haven't unpacked it yet. To what location do you recommend I extract/install this all-encompassing tool?

From my quick read of what you wrote on the Download page, Essentials makes it easy to pick and choose from myriad tweaks and mods just by checking them to select, and unchecking them to deselect. Correct?

If I'm using Essentials, will I still have a use for Vince Klortho's Car Selector tool, which I used every day for years?

I'm assuming Essentials supports multiple installs of GTR2. Will I "point" Essentials to each of my versions of GTR2?

I confess I hadn't noticed Essentials until I went looking for it after you mentioned it in a recent post! It looks like it will make making adjustments to GTR2 (and PnG) as easy as could be imagined!
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Unread 17 May 17, 18:08   #15
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EUREKA!!!!!

About an hour ago I did a fresh install of GTR2 to my "newer"
hard drive, applying the 1.1 patch, then replacing GTR2.exe with the No CD version, then right-clicking on both that and the Config application to set the game to run as administrator.

Next, I removed the receivers for the Logitech wireless mouse and keyboard from the back-panel USB ports, replacing them with my old Dell wired mouse and keyboard.

Then, after a few deep breaths, I went to my Downloads and double-clicked on the Logitech Gaming software application that failed to install properly yesterday.

This time it installed FLAWLESSLY, recognized my G25 immediately, and a few minutes later I was playing GTR2 with full FFB in full 1920 x 1080 glory!!!
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Unread 17 May 17, 19:38   #16
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I've always had trouble with wireless keyboards and mouse devices. Good for office work, but not for gaming. Just my two cents worth.
Sounds like you've got it sorted ... Good for you Wee Scot!
Now to the next challenge: Grand Prix Legends!!!
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Unread 17 May 17, 20:35   #17
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Nothing to add here other than a hello. Good to see another old guy still at it.
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Unread 17 May 17, 21:52   #18
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GEORGE! Good to hear from you. Yes, I'm finally putting some of the REST of those great hand-me-downs to good--no, GREAT--use!
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Unread 18 May 17, 06:30   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
But wait, doesn't W10 come with DirectX 11? Now you're telling me I need to go back to DirectX 9 in order to use the G25??? And do I need to UN-install DX11 first, or after, or will installing DirectX 9 automatically remove DX11, or can the two "live together" on my hard drive???

If I were any more confused and frustrated, I'd be in a mental hospital!
your over thinking.
you need dx9 to run GTR2, installing dx9 has nothing to do with the wheel or dx10 or 11 .

DX9 will be installed now with your new GTR2 install. That would be why you have GTR2 running properly now.
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Unread 18 May 17, 11:10   #20
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OK, thanks.
And all these years I just assumed that the next version of DirectX replaced and superseded the previous.
Amazing how much I DON'T know about this stuff!



@DucFreak: Thanks for the CPU cooling recommendations. I'll try to get that done next week.

@DurgeDriven: I understand now, but now that I have GTR2 and the G25 working so well, the LAST thing I want to do is pull everything apart and start over! Would it help keep drive C cleaner if I created a Simracing folder under C and installed all my games at that level?

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Unread 19 May 17, 05:45   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post

@DurgeDriven: I understand now, but now that I have GTR2 and the G25 working so well, the LAST thing I want to do is pull everything apart and start over! Would it help keep drive C cleaner if I created a Simracing folder under C and installed all my games at that level?


Personally I like to have at least enough space to backup everything I have if need be, that's all ( so if I had 2 older drives to 1TB I would buy a new 1TB any which way )

You mean as opposed to leaving them in program files on the same drive ? ( will make no difference ) or moving from the other drive ?

I would run defrag on both drives then check transfer rates.

Whichever was faster is where I would put my main sim/s
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Unread 19 May 17, 06:22   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
@DurgeDriven: Just downloaded your massive GTR2 Essentials, but haven't unpacked it yet. To what location do you recommend I extract/install this all-encompassing tool?

From my quick read of what you wrote on the Download page, Essentials makes it easy to pick and choose from myriad tweaks and mods just by checking them to select, and unchecking them to deselect. Correct?
Doh

Sorry mate

If you want to use Basic Method you only use the MODS folder and MODS numbered from #01 NO INTRO and up to #60 XD v2.1.16 as well all "TRACKS" mods in MODS folder only

You can ignore all other folders in the pack they are for Advanced setups
However I like dropping MODS INFO into every GTR2 Essentials folder as handy reference


So drop the MODS folder into a GTR2 root folder, click on JSGME and Bob's ya uncle


The only exception is XD and Map plugin MODS which requires edits to player folder whether you install them manually or with JSGME

I have simplified it by combining 2 mods into 3 combos, just needs your moniker (player name)

Check the Tutorial see Page 5 "GTR2 ESSENTIALS BASIC"


All MODS used have permission directly from all authors and to repack the way I see fit to work the best.

Next MOD will be #61 AL RAIN FIX v1.3 by ArmedLightning in 7 MODS, how many combos .......don't ask me. lol

---------------
P.S.

#_00 to #_06 MODS are for Advanced setup

I did say in tutorial #_00 to #_10 to allow for other advanced mods in next vesions

Last edited by DurgeDriven; 19 May 17 at 06:36.
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Unread 19 May 17, 14:48   #23
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Thanks! I only just saw this AFTER asking my questions in the Downloads thread.
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Unread 28 May 17, 04:16   #24
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Hey, I'm having a great time playing GTR2 with my "new" computer. I downloaded and installed the free version of FRAPS, and I'm getting CRAZY HIGH FPS in the middle of 60 cars in a driving rainstorm on Spa 2003!

After hours of this fun (including more than an hour when all I did was test and compare the different rain models available through the JSGME mods ("HQ Rain" and the half dozen "AL Rain FX" styles) thanks to DurgeDriven's GTR2 ESSENTIALS), I decided to see if I could successfully copy one of my all-time favorite mods--GPC79--from the GTR2 game folders on my old hard drive into the most recent installation of GTR2 on my newer, faster hard drive that I've been playing using Windows 7 compatibility mode.

I carefully went through all the folders in my old GTR2, starting in the root folder, to find all of the files and subfolders related to GPC79, and copied them over, one at a time (including the Goodyear and Michelin tyre files that Nigave adapted from another game and that provide just enough grip to make GPC79 enjoyable). When I started up the new GTR2, there were all of the Early and Late cars, and I was soon James Hunt in the Wolf-Ford, swooping through the modern Eau Rouge.

Then i noticed a problem: no front wheels! No problem, really, I thought to myself, since I remembered how, years ago, I'd been directed to the "Wheels Visible In Cockpit" line in my PLR file in UserData.

But there WAS a problem. When I right-clicked on the PLR file, I wasn't immediately presented with the option to open it with NotePad, as I'd expected. Instead, the dialog box invited me to "Look for an App in the Store", with "More Apps" and an arrow below that. Well, I knew I didn't need to "buy" another app to open the PLR file! So instead, I changed the file extension from PLR to txt, opened it up with NotePad, found the "Wheels Visible In Cockpit" line, changed the value to "1", saved it (as a txt), then changed the extension back to PLR! Easy enough! (I thought). Then I noticed that, even though the file NAME was "John McDaniel.PLR", the file TYPE was listed as "Text Document." Hmmm

Expectantly, I started GTR2 and... was given the opportunity to create a new player!
...and set up all my control options and buttons and preferences all over again! What a pain. And when I finished THAT and selected the Wolf-Ford again for some racing, the wheels still (again) were not visible!

I exited the game and went back into File Explorer and saw that I'd created a whole new player file. No wonder my "Wheels Visible in Cockpit" change hadn't taken effect!

This time, I right-clicked on the new player file, selected "Open With", and clicked on the "More Apps" line only to discover that NotePad had been there all along, but out of immediate view! This time, I made the needed change from "0" to "1", saved the file, and it REMAINED a (the active) PLR file!

Now I've finally got wonderful front wheels to watch as I race my beloved GPC79, but it still took a lot more time and caused a lot more irritation than it needed to if Microsoft just hadn't had to be so CLEVER about the way they presented (hid) the information I needed!

Oh well, tomorrow (no, wait! TODAY, as it's now after midnight...) will be another day in simracing Paradise! And I've got the Monaco GP and Indy 500 to watch, as well!!!

Life is Good (?)
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Unread 29 May 17, 04:41   #25
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sounds like the new PC is running well. If you like the old school cars don't forget Power and Glory Mod . pm if you need some car set up help in PnG .
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Unread 31 May 17, 15:40   #26
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Thanks! I do love P&G, but right now I have other simracing (and track building: BTB Evo for GTR2!) issues I need to work through first! I'll keep you posted.
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