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Unread 16 June 17, 10:37   #101
erwin greven
 
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maybe it won't.
Still too many problems.
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Unread 16 June 17, 11:20   #102
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If I can help, give me a yell.
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Unread 17 June 17, 11:46   #103
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erwin, are there many problems?
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Unread 17 June 17, 12:10   #104
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It has everything to do with textures.
Turn 1: when i drive at night and i look in the mirror it lights up and i see a purple illuminated part.
This piece was the only piece that, after exporting in GTR2 and reworking it in 3dsimed lost its driveability. Cars would fall through it. I have changed the properties in the SCN-file, so it would bear cars.
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Unread 17 June 17, 12:12   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzaluigiRacer View Post
when will be relase the swiss circuit?
Can only second this quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Conway View Post
GonzaluigiRacer... if you follow the thread you'll realise what's going on instead of asking "is it done yet?... What about now?, what about now?
I understand that you're waiting to try it but when it's done a Download link will almost certainly appear.
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Unread 18 June 17, 08:10   #106
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Pizzaman and me can help you to solve problems, okay?
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Unread 19 June 17, 14:27   #107
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Erwin, if you can help me, give me a yell.
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Unread 19 June 17, 17:28   #108
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No. not you.
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Unread 19 June 17, 17:38   #109
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then, who helps you? nothing?
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Unread 19 June 17, 19:54   #110
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Gonzaluigi... sometimes knowledge is better than enthusiasm!

Last edited by Pete Conway; 19 June 17 at 20:11.
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Unread 19 June 17, 20:08   #111
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so... oh my god... Are you britain?
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Unread 19 June 17, 20:15   #112
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Well, yes, but... with a big B!
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Unread 19 June 17, 20:18   #113
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The swiss circuit is the coolest track. really?
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Unread 19 June 17, 20:45   #114
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I agree... I just hope that being from the UK (Britain) isn't a problem in getting to drive it!
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Unread 19 June 17, 21:25   #115
erwin greven
 
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I have send it to Pizzaman. He is from my own province. That is much easier to communicate.
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Unread 20 June 17, 15:51   #116
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Pizzaman, erwin is making other things in Swiss Circuit.
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Unread 20 June 17, 18:15   #117
erwin greven
 
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radio silence till the track is ready.
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Unread 21 June 17, 16:37   #118
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really?
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Unread 22 June 17, 04:36   #119
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y
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Unread 25 June 17, 09:46   #120
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how many track have you made, erwin?
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Unread 25 June 17, 14:47   #121
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Since you don't understand what radio silence means and you're new to nogrip, I'll answer for erwin:

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=293685
http://www.racedepartment.com/thread...en-1953.87269/
http://www.racedepartment.com/thread...d-track.81231/
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/hunzering.8219/
http://www.racedepartment.com/thread...ion-3-0.52133/
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Unread 21 July 17, 22:46   #122
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Track is now in testing phase.
  1. Is the AIW working
  2. Are there still texture problems?
  3. tweaking AI computer controlled cars. (GTR2 ai is not as good as rF1)
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Unread 22 July 17, 00:05   #123
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Thanks for the update Erwin, looking forward to it
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Unread 24 July 17, 17:27   #124
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Thanks for the update, Erwin
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Unread 31 July 17, 17:25   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwin greven View Post
Track is now in testing phase.
  1. Is the AIW working
  2. Are there still texture problems?
  3. tweaking AI computer controlled cars. (GTR2 ai is not as good as rF1)
Did you get Guitarmans editor working?

GTR2 AIW is just as good as rFactor... but it needs 'Talent files'.
Each car should point to its own file, if it has none, driver will suck.
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Unread 31 July 17, 17:32   #126
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i don't understand how to work with GM editor.
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Unread 3 August 17, 21:17   #127
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If you want you can send me the file, I'll crank up the AI.
It works with bezier curves and such... quite mathematical.
Lucky for me, I used to teach mathematics... (also biology and physics).

G-mans Editor works OK when you get used to it. Basically, you start it, and let it load the AIW from your track. You will get a 'lined' diagram of your track in top view. And then you can adjust the tracklines (middle), track sides, cut-detection lines and the 'forbidden lines (where you do not want the AI to drive).

I can make the AI quite fast if you like (even make them real bastards).
But first you need 'fluent' lines, I always used G-man Editor.
BTB sucks at that, same as the 'groove' which usually ends up dotted/smudged.
First the lines need to be fixed, then you can adjust AI speed.

It would be better if I could test the track (but I cannot...), pics of any trouble-spots would do fine too. I have fixed a bunch of tracks where the AI went into the fence and such stuff too. Or smashed the fence when pit in/pit out.
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Unread 5 August 17, 00:08   #128
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@Pizzaman: I used Guitarman's AIW editor 10 years ago! But not since... I'll have to relearn it all over again LOL. One thing I couldn't seem to "fix" was the AI cars slowing down too much approaching the abrupt crest of a hill--the Rhum Kink on my Basse-Terre, Guadeloupe circuit. I finally gave up and took out the jump by flattening the crest, but I'd like to go back to the original layout in my recreation of that circuit if you have found a way to keep the AI moving through such sections like "real bastards"! Hairpin corners, too. Is there a way to keep the AI from slowing to a crawl going into those? For example, at Monaco 67 or Dundrod? (BTW, the 2017 Ulster Grand Prix events started today, leading to races next Thursday and Saturday!)

@Erwin: Sorry (again) for the brief thread hijack! Good luck with the finishing touches!

Last edited by Wee Scot; 5 August 17 at 00:21.
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Unread 5 August 17, 05:03   #129
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@wee scot: when the AI is slowing down at a crest, you have to fool the AI.
1. copy the track
2. flatten the track at the crest part. append the ai to that track
3. get the AI fastline right for that part.
4. Export the altered AI.
5. copy paste the altered part at the crest into the old AI. (Guitarman is very handy for that.)
Guitarman saves any *.aiw file with adding numbered waypoints. And in Guitarman you can read out any waypoint number.

It uses this principle.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/eia351...aped_Track.zip
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Unread 5 August 17, 18:00   #130
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(Wow, it's been a while since I was last logged in here at NG!)
@wee scot; If the crst is on a straight section of the AIW FastLine & CenterLine & there's only 1 or 2 'pins' holding it to surface, try deleting them so lines sink below track- then AI won't "see" the crest- only problem is; if they get a bit sideways you gotta hope the mods own AI files can cope...
I did it for Monyash in a couple of places where there's potential airtime (lol!), most mods can take it although some still back-off slightly (only deleted 'pins' on F/L & not C/L) & the occasional (Lotus 23b) just plain go weird! :v

BTW Erwin; Swiss Track is looking AWESOME!
I hope when all this is done you find time to run an export through BTB Pro... 3
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Unread 5 August 17, 20:09   #131
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Thanks, Erwin and BLeeKii! I'll experiment with both methods.

BLeeKii! It's been quite a while since we last had a BTB conversation. Good to know you're still "engaged."

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Unread 5 August 17, 20:36   #132
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Third method:

In G'mans Editor you can make 'bezier curves', select a few points before and after the crest,
then make a bezier from that... they will just drive on like total idots.
The obnly times you get problems is when you have a crest, and a curve right after that....

I had the same problem when they were on bridges, since that is usually 'top of a crest'.
Usually I would re-do the lines a few times with bezier, untill I got it perfect.
Perfect = the most fluent lines around the track.

Then the next step is to set a good 'lap record' myself. After that, usually the AI is much faster than me. I must change the 'AI grip' because they do get unnatural grip, they run like on rails. And then I mess with the AI speed. Those two are easy to find in the AIW file.

After that, I let the game run automatically with a full (mixed) field a few times to see how many get killed and crashed. 4-6 DNF from a 35 field is acceptable. And they should show some skidding.

- If AI never slides, the AI has too much grip or needs to be faster;
- If AI is too fast, needs less grip;
- If AI never slides, needs less grip or made faster;
- If AI cannot made to be fast enough, your trackline sucks.
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Unread 5 August 17, 20:46   #133
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Thanks Pizzaman! The Rhum Kink on my Basse-Terre WIP did combine a crest AND a slight change in direction (~10 degrees left), but I'll just have to hope that one of these clever ways to "fool the AI" will work for me! And if I can't sort it out, I'll just send it to YOU!

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Unread 5 August 17, 20:49   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLeeKii View Post
.... in a couple of places where there's potential airtime (lol!), most mods can take it although some still back-off slightly (only deleted 'pins' on F/L & not C/L) & the occasional (Lotus 23b) just plain go weird!
I found in GTL usually that is because the standard setup for mod cars is wrong.
They have standard setup with highest springs, softest dampers, weird toe-in and such.
The combination with the extra grip (AI cheating!!) can give really weird effects.

I had the Abarth TCR setup so it slightly oversteered. If AI cars had to brake in a corner, they sometimes spun off, just like in real life.
But on default tracks, if they run over kerbstones and brake, they almost fall on the roof. Well,they do that in real life too

Similar: the GTL Porsche 911 always runs forward into a tree.
In real life, a Porsche 911 usually hits a tree while going reversed....
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Unread 5 August 17, 21:01   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
Thanks Pizzaman! The Rhum Kink on my Basse-Terre WIP did combine a crest AND a slight change in direction (~10 degrees left), but I'll just have to hope that one of these clever ways to "fool the AI" will work for me! And if I can't sort it out, I'll just send it to YOU!

They will probably put on the brakes and steer left while in mid-air.
That will not end well with a rear-engined car.

Try to decrease AI grip multiplier, so they will slide more.
And maybe that Lotus came with a shite default setup

In fact, this is not to fool the AI. That is what happens in the standard game.
What it needs is a good AI to start, the grip multiplier is what fools us into thinking the AI is any good.
On most tracks the AI just sucks.
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Unread 6 August 17, 06:18   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLeeKii View Post
BTW Erwin; Swiss Track is looking AWESOME!
I hope when all this is done you find time to run an export through BTB Pro... 3
Both versions are ready.
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Unread 6 August 17, 19:57   #137
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Question.

How hard it is to make a reverse .aiw? I have a track that is currently running anti-clockwise (as it was in 1967) but what I'd personally need would be a clockwise version to reflect how it was run between 1973 and 1975. The pitlane are currently on the right side of the track and they would need to be "flipped" aswell, but that wouldn't not be mandatory, it's the .aiw my main interest/concern.

Does it need to be remade from scratch?
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Unread 6 August 17, 20:56   #138
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I think so. From scratch.
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Unread 7 August 17, 18:25   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeKoCZ View Post
....
Does it need to be remade from scratch?
Not really. What you could do is import the needed bits in BTB.
So, load into 3DsimEd, cut away unnecessary pieces, explode to 1GMT,
convert to 3DS, fix up the whole load in X-pack, remeber: the road, pit, garages (outlines) and some of the necessary surroundings.

Load BTB, import the trackbits. Then set that to 'drivable'.
Make a fake road on top, in the direction you want.
Put BTB trackline on it, then delete.

The top most drivable surface willl be the road. Trackline will use that.
Fix up the track-limits and cut-track parameters. Export to <your game>.
Use G'mans editor to improve AIW, and presto, reversed track.
Remember to change/move the startlights/pitlights and (if needed) pacecars.

This is also the way to do 'alternative layouts' if not available.
You may then need to delete and add some objects (roadblocks and such).

VERY IMPORTANT in such matters is to keep the centre of the track.
Also, take care not to rotate...
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Unread 8 August 17, 02:22   #140
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Erwin, the only criticism I have regarding the circuit is the chicane Tissot, I think the ground is very abrupt, if possible I would like the chicane to be similar to Chicane of Hungaroring.
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Unread 8 August 17, 16:27   #141
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I will flatten the chicane for the GTR2 version.


For the rF1 version i keep it that way.
I want it to give it a bit of a Corkscrew feeling. It is important to know where to point the car. It will become airborne sometimes.

It is a somewhat technical track. I like technical tracks and happily build them. Just like Bergwerk, HZ-Motorsports Facility and the Hunzering.
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Unread 8 August 17, 21:24   #142
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Ok, thanks
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Unread 9 August 17, 16:18   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwin greven View Post
I will flatten the chicane for the GTR2 version.
....
You might want to consider giving the AI cars a special setup.
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/sh...67#post1945367
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Unread 9 August 17, 20:18   #144
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Yes, they need that.

Most of the track they need mechanical grip, because most corners are 2nd and 3rd gear corners. Medium to higher downforce settings are welcome too.

But: the start finish straight is very long.
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Unread 9 August 17, 20:44   #145
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You can 'cheat' the mechanical grip for AI cars, no realproblems there.
On the default tracks in GTLegends the grip for AI is 2x better than the players.

Did you ever wonder why they survive Mondello corner #1?

Also, have you ever seen them coming form the grass...
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Unread 9 August 17, 21:11   #146
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I do not know if i it's asking too much, but I wish it were similar to the photo, with the curbs ...
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Unread 9 August 17, 21:20   #147
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In the rest the circuit is perfect, could not imagine something better than this
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Unread 9 August 17, 21:29   #148
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Looks nice and do-able to me.

There's 2 ways for chicanes like that:
1 - make the AI use a 'wide and clear' line else they hit the kerbs and fall over;
2 - give the AI a slightly higher suspension and less grip

The problem usually is, the AI has so much 'artifical' grip they REALLY end up on two wheels. Especially with saloon cars in GTLegends this is bad, as the standard setup is usually the lowest springs and stiffest settings, or otherwise sucking badly. I have seen it so bad half the field ended up on the roof. And on most tracks they do NOT need the artificial grip.

The way to define the 'wide and clear' is to set the track limits in BTB at the end of the (grey)track and NOT over the (red/white) kerbs. Then, after defining the 'allowed drivable track' put the 'ideal line' (the AIW line) so, that they will not get too much near the kerbs.

Cut-track detection will allow the player-cars to go with two wheels over the kerb, as long as 2 pixels of the car never leave the allowed driveable area, it's OK. Before getting a cut-track-warning, cars need to leave the ;allowed drivable area' and return across that line withing a certain amount of time (therefore, if you stop or spin off,you do not get a warning). On this chicane, I think you can still wreck the front spolier on teh kerb without getting a penalty.

But when you define it right in BTB, the AI will NOT want to leave the 'drivable track' and will not cut the chicane. How?

Looking at BTB, you get the lines across the track, stretch the green ones to the end of the grey (the AI will prefer not to leave that area). Then there is the 'red zone', which is the cut track detection area. You get a C/T when you get your WHOLE car across the diversion between red and green, and then return in the same section.

The AI WILL drive on the red, but only if necessary, which CAN happen if you put the drive-line to much near it. You can extend the 'red' across sandboxes and all that, the AI may end up in there on overtakes or by 'mistake'. HOWEVER if you do not extend that red area, the AI will avoid the area outside the green and red like the plague. They consider that 'non-driveable' and will never drive there. If they do end up there anyway (after a crash or for whatever reason this could happen) they let most of the field pass or even sometimes retire to pit.

So, extend the green to where you want the AI to drive - and keep the red REAL SHORT on this chicane. Set the 'drive line' not to close to the edges. That should do it. I also found the AI drive more careful when they have 'narrow red zone' along the track.

It works reverse, too. When you add lots of red zone (for example, on the grass) the AI will try to overtake on the grass if they feel the need. And they will make it too, of they have 2x grip....

Last edited by Pizzaman; 9 August 17 at 21:57.
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Unread 10 August 17, 07:57   #149
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Working on an update for the chicane.

I know already how to alter the AI fast line with guitarman. For the AI setup i think i can use a copy of a different GTR2 track. Have to check that. Don't know how that works
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Unread 10 August 17, 21:51   #150
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It's easy enough, I think it is even stated in the setup file (it ws in Talent-files in GTL too).
I never used it, just reduced the AI-grip. After that made them as fast as me, plus 10%.
Then reduce or increase AI grip until I had about 4 cars DNF.
It made them heaps fast but not unfailable.

I made more mad tracks than that chicane, but that was in GTL.
Those old cars are a lot slower and more high off the ground.
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