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Unread 8 July 17, 23:30   #101
The1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Wright View Post
It looks like 2 wheels off. Not braking but off throttle. Can't see any issue with it myself.

I don't really see the point in trying to judge driving physics from YouTube videos, especially if you have already decided you won't like pCARs2.
+1 David, thank you!
All of this bashing for a version that hasn't been released because of the faults in the first I just don't understand....
--I enjoy pcars1 and fully expect to enjoy the 2nd iteration...I for one have no issues with a title continuing to improve and learn from it's mistakes..
...just my .02 cents..
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Unread 9 July 17, 05:31   #102
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Originally Posted by Mahjik View Post
The AI won't be making that many mistakes in the final version. There is still some tweaking being done.
That's one I'll believe when I see it. SMS has had 3-4 years to make the AI credible and I have seen zero evidence of improvement, so believing they'll fix it in the few months before release requires a huge leap of faith akin to divebombing an LMP1 at Mulsanne corner with a 427 Cobra.

It's not a matter of "tweaking", the code needs to be modified (*) and SMS would already be showing off video evidence if there had been any improvement in the AI. SMS is not shy about advertising their positive achievements (graphics, new tire model, etc). At this point, there's no time to get new AI code through any sort of review when they need to have the software in final stages for signoff before publishing. Lack of promotional material regarding AI improvements means either they don't believe they've been successful in their efforts or they're flat out not trying to make improvements.

(*) See what R3E, AMS, rF2, & AC have gone through to get their improvements in AI. Each have had 3-5 rounds of public testing with a couple failures en route to their current state. SMS has only shown a failure in original pCARS with no subsequent public attempts at improvements.

Last edited by Emery; 9 July 17 at 05:49.
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Unread 9 July 17, 10:43   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Wright View Post
It looks like 2 wheels off. Not braking but off throttle. Can't see any issue with it myself.

I don't really see the point in trying to judge driving physics from YouTube videos, especially if you have already decided you won't like pCARs2.
you're kidding aren't you ? take your rose coloured glasses off
such a lame comeback David. I can say what ever I feel about the game . Just because I have doubts about the PCARS2 doesn't mean I can't debate it or share what I see or be belittled by the high and mighty .

it's a Ford Sierra just hit 4th gear on boost, the car should of spun to the left as soon as it touched the grass . At the minimum the car should of at least hit the wall and slid along it . considering it had just stopped raining . many have done the same in the dry at Mount Panorama and the car goes back to the pits on a flat bed .

Last edited by pistoncup; 9 July 17 at 11:02.
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Unread 9 July 17, 14:13   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emery View Post
That's one I'll believe when I see it.
No doubt.
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Unread 10 July 17, 17:52   #105
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Track list has been published:

http://www.projectcarsgame.com/the-tracks.html?lang=pt
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Unread 11 July 17, 06:33   #106
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I am disappointment so much because of project cars. I bought this game because I believed that it could be the best sim ever. But from alpha-version till now game has ton of unfinished work, raw career mode, bad AI, etc... and SMS is not going to fix unfinished project cars but instead of it they want to get more money and announced project cars 2 to make money like simbin with his Raceroom makes money using naive players I am not going to pay them anything more
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Unread 15 July 17, 14:39   #107
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Unread 17 July 17, 03:25   #108
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Unread 22 July 17, 19:02   #109
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Unread 22 July 17, 20:56   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pistoncup View Post
you're kidding aren't you ? take your rose coloured glasses off
such a lame comeback David. I can say what ever I feel about the game . Just because I have doubts about the PCARS2 doesn't mean I can't debate it or share what I see or be belittled by the high and mighty .

it's a Ford Sierra just hit 4th gear on boost, the car should of spun to the left as soon as it touched the grass . At the minimum the car should of at least hit the wall and slid along it . considering it had just stopped raining . many have done the same in the dry at Mount Panorama and the car goes back to the pits on a flat bed .

Even a 105hp F3 Eve will spin on grass

But you not allowed to be subjective or critical in this thread

I can tell much in videos from the incar wheel input


Not like rFactor2 that got written off a few months after release here by the majority throwing words around like cartoon by people never even brought it

David said from one early beta ( Lime Rock - Corvette ) that it was undriveable and impossible to setup ............
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Unread 23 July 17, 16:38   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DurgeDriven View Post
Even a 105hp F3 Eve will spin on grass
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Unread 23 July 17, 16:45   #112
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Unread 23 July 17, 19:48   #113
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Mahjik, I think you misunderstood Durge. In both those clips you posted above, the cars don't spin because the drivers are not using the throttle when they go off. If they had used the throttle, they would most likely spin (because bumps)... I'm sure you know that!

What we've seen in pCARS and pCARS 2 are cars putting wheels into the grass and still being able to stay on the throttle as if all wheels were firmly planted on tarmac.
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Unread 23 July 17, 20:41   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emery View Post
Mahjik, I think you misunderstood Durge. In both those clips you posted above, the cars don't spin because the drivers are not using the throttle when they go off. If they had used the throttle, they would most likely spin (because bumps)... I'm sure you know that!

What we've seen in pCARS and pCARS 2 are cars putting wheels into the grass and still being able to stay on the throttle as if all wheels were firmly planted on tarmac.
That is just simply not true. Example above. You can be sure he stayed in it the whole time. Now, you can't run down an entire straight doing that but that's not because of the grass being slippery. That's because the ground will not be as flat and stable as the tarmac.

This is different than what pistoncup was referring to.. He's suggesting that in the wet, with a turbo-based car, the unpredictability of the turbo kicking in on a car with a less sophisticated differential, would cause more instability when hitting wet grass.

That may or may not be true, but I want to state that simply putting the car half on the grass does not equal an insta-crash. I do race and I have several friend who will do that in a heartbeat (and have done it many times) when dry. In the wet, that's a whole different ball game.
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Unread 23 July 17, 20:52   #115
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If he does not understand ...

pCars AC when you run onto grass you can virtually nail the throttle

In rF2 you have egg shell the throttle or you likely doomed


Same as braking

Outlon Park run onto grass around the fast left and you can pull up before the next right hander

In rF2 you won't stop and just jump across the track out of control maybe hitting another car

It is like chalk and chesse ....................IMHO anyways


Just go try it run onto the grass dead straight and see hows fast you can stop in each sim
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Unread 23 July 17, 22:30   #116
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Why are you comparing sims? Compare real life.. I could care less what each sim does.. What I care about is what happens in real life, then I'll go back and look at the sims.
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Unread 23 July 17, 22:34   #117
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DonQuijote Driven
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Unread 23 July 17, 23:13   #118
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Stopped pretty good...
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Unread 23 July 17, 23:24   #119
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One more for fun... noob goes into the grass and doesn't spontaneously crash...
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Unread 24 July 17, 16:20   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahjik View Post


Stopped pretty good...
Sideways from only 60 mph.
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Unread 25 July 17, 03:09   #121
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Gunning it through the grass shouldn't be a problem. However ........... braking is different. I've seen footage of heavy braking with two tires off and no loss of stability, more than once. rFactor doesn't have good off-road behavior to use as example.
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Unread 25 July 17, 06:31   #122
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Running onto grass in F3 ( say 132 mph exit at Ascari ) can be easy or hard and that is low power not F1 Eve .
Seems outcomes get good stream from the data , angle, speed , power, tyres ..... whether is canned for not in rF2 never feels quite the same twice.

In AC same corner in F1 Lotus 79 whatever I can drive on grass at Ascari and swerve off to other side grass and back again like madman and next lap you do almost carbon copy move and they feel very much the same it is like for every degree of latitude in rF2
in AC is maybe 1.5

.and I know I go on... pCars , AC I can invoke that soap on a rope feeling in a lot of cars I try at Parabolica whether they are high down-force or not
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Unread 25 July 17, 17:09   #123
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Why should grass or gravel trips be different just 80s apart, if the way they begin is the same? In any game. Real life can have sand shift, grass be plowed to dirt, or Astroturf rip out and thus change things, but not in a game.

In AC I have gotten to the grass on the exit a couple of times but driving the higher powered vehicles, usually turbo. Sometimes it is tough to keep from rubbing the wall or turning into major damage. The 98T and C9 are very temperamental and I think you'll only never have issues if you're not pushing. But I'm talking modern Ascari. Old one I've rarely gone wide, usually I backed off or adjusted ok enough to keep going, maybe only once had a rear snap.

I don't remember pCars behavior as I rarely put laps down in that garbage. Can't say I struggled with going off-track.
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Unread 26 July 17, 22:35   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guimengo View Post
rFactor doesn't have good off-road behavior to use as example.
This....
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Unread 29 July 17, 15:08   #125
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Unread 2 August 17, 22:31   #126
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Unread 6 August 17, 14:48   #127
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Unread 6 August 17, 15:20   #128
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They haven't reworked the layout on any of their tracks, the differences to real life and some other games is quite noticeable. It's a shame they are just releasing the stuff that didn't make it out of pC1, which was built with wrong geometry despite the community's attempt by providing references. Rouen was disgusting.
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Unread 11 August 17, 00:03   #129
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Now this video demonstrates the promise! Mixed classes & weather (GT3, GT4 (our hero drives one), & Touring).

Appears build 810's AI is somewhat improved compared to a build 805 video that I also just watched. We didn't get a solid look to see how much the field cuts corners at the start, but it didn't look too awkward. Very nice that the driver has selected a proper AI difficulty level as he never catches up with the GT4 5th place. The AI even drive in the wet competently. AI is a little hesitant to initiate blue flag overtakes, hesitant to go side-by-side with other AI.

There are a few annoying LOD pop-ups in pitlane, but, yeah, I could live with that and almost makes me want to get a VR helmet despite these accursed glasses, LOL.

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Unread 16 August 17, 00:38   #130
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Unread 25 August 17, 23:19   #131
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Unread 25 August 17, 23:56   #132
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Amazing
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Unread 28 August 17, 00:24   #133
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Unread 4 September 17, 23:34   #134
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Unread 7 September 17, 16:17   #135
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Unread 9 September 17, 18:28   #136
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Online multiplayer footage...
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Unread 20 September 17, 14:33   #137
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Unread 20 September 17, 16:00   #138
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I've never seen a P4 get its wheel off the ground on such a corner on a flat track before. On the review itself, Will is a supremely nice guy but I've always disagreed with his ability to adequately review these kinds of games.


Edit: I'd still give this game a fair chance if it was provided to me, especially on PS4. If it doesn't have the crazy glitches and bugs of the first one, and the Group C and historic Le Mans cars aren't severely altered, I'd enjoy it on the available tracks.

Last edited by Guimengo; 22 September 17 at 21:29.
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Unread 20 September 17, 20:44   #139
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Don't you know mate ? SMS constantly update physics and chassis and tyres so in the end the feeling will be much better ! lol

Same as pcars only worth a steam sale
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Unread 22 September 17, 13:59   #140
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Hi guys. So.....Hows the AI in the released version?

Regards
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Unread 23 September 17, 05:19   #141
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Quote:
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Hi guys. So.....Hows the AI in the released version?

There are some areas which need some improvements (which are coming as they have already been identified):

* Lap 1 Turn 1 the AI is slow. After that, they spread out and race well.
* Vintage cars/tires, the AI is slow
* Snow, the AI is either too fast in some conditions or too slow (this fix is coming)

The above video is a good representation of the AI with modern cars and no crazy weather.
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Unread 23 September 17, 11:16   #142
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Thanks for the info.

Regards
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Unread 23 September 17, 19:51   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahjik View Post
There are some areas which need some improvements (which are coming as they have already been identified):

* Lap 1 Turn 1 the AI is slow. After that, they spread out and race well.
* Vintage cars/tires, the AI is slow
* Snow, the AI is either too fast in some conditions or too slow (this fix is coming)

The above video is a good representation of the AI with modern cars and no crazy weather.
As I foretold earlier in this thread, there was no way the AI behavior would be sorted by the time of release.
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Unread 24 September 17, 06:46   #144
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After hearing the CEO talking openly in an interview I really think this is the project to back now.
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Unread 24 September 17, 16:33   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guimengo View Post
On the review itself, Will is a supremely nice guy but I've always disagreed with his ability to adequately review these kinds of games.
I'd call Will a sim racer. None of the reviewers out there have ever driven a real race car so you will end up taking them all with a grain of salt. However, I think Will gave it a good opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emery View Post
As I foretold earlier in this thread, there was no way the AI behavior would be sorted by the time of release.
Sure, not every permutation that is possible with the title has stellar AI. However, the AI is decent for the driving 90% of the people do (i.e. dry normal conditions with modern cars). There are changes still planned in this area.
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Unread 24 September 17, 18:51   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahjik View Post
Sure, not every permutation that is possible with the title has stellar AI. However, the AI is decent for the driving 90% of the people do (i.e. dry normal conditions with modern cars). There are changes still planned in this area.
Changes still planned because they barely improved the AI from pCARS 1. Sure, they don't ram the player as often, but...

a) Oval AI are a complete waste of time.
b) On double-file rolling starts they go into the grass before even reaching the start line. In the dry.
c) Weird synchronized dodging in the racing line. In the dry.
d) Constantly see them just blindly drive off the track. In the dry.

This is SMS we're talking about, so I'm willing to bet these AI issues remain after 2 more patches.
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Unread 24 September 17, 19:44   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahjik View Post
I'd call Will a sim racer. None of the reviewers out there have ever driven a real race car so you will end up taking them all with a grain of salt. However, I think Will gave it a good opinion.

Will doesn't have sufficient credibility. That is built over time and with a proven record. It's fine he gives his opinion, that's what he gives in his reviews. In fact he structures his delivery well and his opinion is far better to listen to than many other guys posting videos around, but's it's just a bit "again?!" seeing he publicizing his videos everywhere. It's like taking Team VVV videos as proper reviews.

And Emery's point is as valid as every comment regarding all their games dating back to Shift 1. Funnily enough, it ties to my first two sentences regarding credibility and track record.

Last edited by Guimengo; 24 September 17 at 19:56.
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Unread 24 September 17, 23:22   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emery View Post
Changes still planned because they barely improved the AI from pCARS 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guimengo View Post
And Emery's point is as valid as every comment regarding all their games dating back to Shift 1. Funnily enough, it ties to my first two sentences regarding credibility and track record.
I don't agree. Partly because I've seen what has been done, but the AI is a lot more human like than PC1 (or most other titles). I don't want the robotic congo line AI that most sims use, and this doesn't have it. It does produce more issues in other areas, but when racing them it's a lot more believable than other titles.

However, you cannot discover this from just watching videos.
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Unread 25 September 17, 12:54   #149
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I agree that watching videos is a pretty poor way to judge a sim. Especially if you don't know what build they are using in the video.

I've been sim racing since the 90's, and have owned pretty much everything. I had the Indycar sim's in the 90's, GPL, EA F1 games, GTR, GTR2, rFactor 1&2, RACE, Raceroom, Assetto Corsa, Automobilista, Richard Burns Rally, and almost anything else that can even remotely be construed as a sim. I also did some real auto racing in the 80's. Mostly lower formula open wheel stuff. Hopefully that will satisfy those that need credentials.

I bought PCars2 on release, and have spent a lot of time with it in the last few days. As far as the ai, its a mixed bag. I've had some really good races with it at COTA using the GT4 cars. I have also had some trouble with it. At LeMans with Group C cars it was pretty bad, but mostly in the warm up lap, and first lap, then it seems to settle down. It seems to be really car and track specific. Some combinations are really good, some not so good.

I will say this though, in my opinion, it has shipped in a lot better shape than rFactor2, R3E, and Assetto Corsa. Those sims came right in the end (rFactor2 took its sweet time doing it), so hopefully some of the issues Pcars2 has, will get patched out. Given SMS track record, its hard to say, but we will see.
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Unread 25 September 17, 17:28   #150
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Should be getting PCars2 later down the line (game should have gone through the expected patching process by then) but one thing I imediately notice on the less positive side is the sounds. And that's even before having the game, just by watching/listening to most of the newest videos of PCars2 on youtube.
I expected a lot more, especially after the promises during WIP stage.

I knew the engine sounds would (once again) be hard to get spot on with such a large list of cars. And actually, in that particular aspect, while not really accurate, the level of overall quality has improved a lot over the previous game title.
I wouldn't say it's on the level of R3E or even AMS but, in that aspect, it's certainly (without any question) a gazilion times better than AC and even RF2.

But I'm dumbfounded with some of the audio choices. Very close to a facepalm.
Honestly, I can not understand the choice of sound effects. Namely with two of the most present and noticed sounds that any user will always notice and be bombarded with:
  • Tyre (skid) noises.
    It sounds extremely fake. So far, I can't be sure if it's just the sample(s) causing that impression. At times, it's also sounding like an ON/OFF switch that triggers them all in or not at all (as if it was an alarm, if that makes more sense).
    It breaks immersion. It should atempt to be close to dynamic, almost progressive, natural and subdued - unelse on the most extreme of situations (f.ex, drifting, spinning, locked wheels, etc).

  • Transmission-whine sounds.
    *argh* By the gods... it's still those same awfull samples (and pitch) that date all the way back to Codies' TRD3, through the two NFS Shift games, and also PCars1.
    The ones in GTR1 and GTR2 are among the best ever heard, extremely accurate, and would have make for a far better choice - which shouldn't cause any issues copyright wise, as the author is the same here.

    To add insult to injury, there are road cars with the transmission-whine effect on (???), and loud at that, when that is something usually present only on racecars and very few exhotic road cars (or very old cars). The Mclaren 570S is one example among many that the game got this wrong.
    It makes one wonder if there was any research at all in that aspect, to atempt at least as close to a true depiction of the real life counterparts.
.

Last edited by DucFreak; 25 September 17 at 18:26. Reason: spelling...(?)
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