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Unread 9 June 16, 19:34   #1
David Wright
 
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Default How does GTR2 stack up 10 years on?

As members of this forum we are of course big GTR2 fans. ISR have just done a short review of GTR2. The reviewer is used to all the current sims but its the first time he's tried GTR2. Find out how he thinks it stacks up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf2sCL-bOU4
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Unread 10 June 16, 09:31   #2
nezeiges
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Accept for Asetto Corsa I have all of the modern Sim's but it's GTR2 I drive the most
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Unread 10 June 16, 13:27   #3
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I was relatively late coming to GTR2. I knew it existed, but waited until Forza deteriorated to the point I didn't want to play it anymore before changing. I really should have done it sooner. When I joined the GTR2 community, it was pretty thriving, however in the last year I've seen less and less creative influence for the sim.

I bought AC and Stock Car Extreme (and whatever it's called now) and neither have captured my imagination. So I'm sticking with GTR2, but I'm feeling it's nigh on finished. I feel that those that are hanging on making their projects better, but not releasing what they have are making a mistake. Simply, there won't be many around to appreciate their endeavors. Where if they released what they have, it may keep a few more on board that little longer.

I can't see me moving on......but I think those that stay will be in the minority.
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Unread 10 June 16, 13:53   #4
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It could be slightly more forgiving to drive but it's ok IMO.

It's got so many features that you don't see anymore because the attention span of the modern gamer (including me, haha) is too short.

Graphically, it's clearly outdated, though. Take a conversion made by the best guys, and you'll see that in S2U, Forza, pCARS, etc. the cars look A LOT better, there's no contest. The gMotor2 use of DX9 shaders is too limited and, since GTR2 was released, there have been plenty of graphic developments GTR2 doesn't seem to make use of. Alcantara in pCARS and AC looks like alcantara, not a texture. External shaders combined with the class job done on the original game help it a bit, but you can still see it's 10 years old underneath.

In short, it holds up well, as long as you ignore the fact it doesn't look as shiny as the newer sims. IMO it's easier to mod than rFactor, although the community is non-existent outside of the closed forums because of the "illegal" conversions (most of which are junk but there's some good stuff out there). It's also better than rF, feels more like a game, in a good way. rF tries to be too many things at once and became the standard only because it happened to succeed at what keeps the community going (the multiplayer). GTR2 on the other hand excels at being an endurance simulator.
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Unread 10 June 16, 19:42   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdBrain View Post
...

Graphically, it's clearly outdated, though. ...

In short, it holds up well, as long as you ignore the fact it doesn't look as shiny as the newer sims.

....
It also doesn't require a liquid cooled Cray in the basement to run it with all options cranked up.

I've always been in the minority on this issue, but I will gladly live with "dated" graphics to have more ingame features. (I still enjoy GPL and N2k3 even though, in the eyes of many today, both are unacceptably "ugly".)

All too often developers sacrifice gameplay for flashy images. In the realm of rpgs both of Morrowind's successors, Oblivion and Skyrim, have much more impressive graphics, yet combined they haven't half the gameplay of Morowind.
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Unread 10 June 16, 20:44   #6
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I won't watch ISR or support anything Darin Gangi is involved with but agree that GTR2 (and GT Legends) have held up just fin. I have AC, etc and still play GTL more than any of the newer stuff. The only reason I don't play GTR2 (and P&G3) as often is purely a lack of time or they'd be getting equal time.

One reason I can't get into rF2 actually is it's not a very big leap above GTR2 and GTL, and graphically it's still not as good as either. (Same as rF1 was that way.)

I suspect other than people wanting the "latest greatest" toys and just having that 'Oh, it's OLD" attitude (which isn't just games, people think I drive a 30 year old car because they assume I can't afford a new one. BWAHAHAHAHAA!!) that there'd still be an audience for the older sims. Well, there is actually I guess, me.
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Unread 10 June 16, 21:21   #7
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Originally Posted by Lower Level View Post

One reason I can't get into rF2 actually is it's not a very big leap above GTR2 and GTL, and graphically it's still not as good as either. (Same as rF1 was that way.)
imho rF2 is a HUGE leap in physics tyres chassis terrain real road and it has better graphics.


But this thread was not about ISI.
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Unread 10 June 16, 21:59   #8
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It still stands up(imo), I think pcars looks great, but getting passed on the outside, in the rain, by a guy on slicks, on the grass,....well, you get the picture. RF2 is good as well, physics are fine, graphics are great(SPA), but I still find myself using GTL/GTR2 more, but I think that is because I like the older cars, plus there is better nightime/rain racing.....
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Unread 10 June 16, 22:53   #9
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Originally Posted by jgf View Post
It also doesn't require a liquid cooled Cray in the basement to run it with all options cranked up.

I've always been in the minority on this issue, but I will gladly live with "dated" graphics to have more ingame features. (I still enjoy GPL and N2k3 even though, in the eyes of many today, both are unacceptably "ugly".)

All too often developers sacrifice gameplay for flashy images. In the realm of rpgs both of Morrowind's successors, Oblivion and Skyrim, have much more impressive graphics, yet combined they haven't half the gameplay of Morowind.
+1 This

Give me substance and gameplay over flashy graphics anytime. GTR2 & GTL had a great balance of both gameplay and graphics at the time of their initial release.

While I do like the eycandy in the newer games, and in the GRID/DiRT series, I too spend most of my seat time with the Simbin titles. For me they just feel right.
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Unread 10 June 16, 23:21   #10
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Nice to see somebody enthusiastic about GTR2. Despite the low res cockpit used and the grayed out cars.
For me it is still the overall best simulator. Takes a little effort to up the Ai, the physics and the graphics but I do not see the graphics as outdated.
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Unread 10 June 16, 23:47   #11
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As far as game play GTR2 still is very good. I just built a new box so I put on a bunch of older games to see how they played. it's crazy how much better they play. I'm playing GTR2, NR2003, and others. Just shows that having the graphics doesn't make for the best over all experience.The only real place GTR2 slips is when running triple screens. While it works things just seem off. Also for some reason the driver school won't work correctly., but that might have something to do with Windows 10.

As mentioned the older games just feel more complete. Personally I'm over the WMD, early access, or what ever else they decide to call it. If they can't finish it I don't want it. This IMO is the biggest reason the older titles hold up against the newer ones. If the newer games where more complete maybe the attention span wouldn't be so short.
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Unread 11 June 16, 04:30   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDAWG View Post
.... If they can't finish it I don't want it. This IMO is the biggest reason the older titles hold up against the newer ones. If the newer games where more complete maybe the attention span wouldn't be so short.
Exactly. Look at all these "old" games that went from alpha stage to store shelves in a year or so and maybe had one patch a few months later, and we are still enjoying them. Compare these modern titles that have been out three or four years with no final version in sight, just "perpetual beta"; the core game will be obsolete by the time a finished product is released, if indeed one ever is.
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Unread 11 June 16, 05:09   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lower Level View Post
...
I suspect other than people wanting the "latest greatest" toys and just having that 'Oh, it's OLD" attitude (which isn't just games, people think I drive a 30 year old car because they assume I can't afford a new one. BWAHAHAHAHAA!!) that there'd still be an audience for the older sims. ...
Lol, how often I've responded to a request for software only to have the person return with, "I went to their website and that program hasn't been updated in a year". ... ... So? Perhaps that just means the programmers got it right back then and there has been no need for an update.

But there is a large market for old games, look how well GOG is doing, not to mention smaller teams resurrecting old titles. Though Shakespeare was correct when he wrote, "First thing we do, kill all the lawyers" - some games will never be reissued and, with true "dog in the manger" attitudes, their owners will never let anyone else do anything with them either; read this to see how ridiculous it can get, http://kotaku.com/the-sad-story-behi...ack-1688358811
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Unread 11 June 16, 06:35   #14
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Quote:
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I won't watch ISR or support anything Darin Gangi is involved with...
Give this Billy guy a chance. I never watched ISR for the same reasons but this new fellow seems fairly knowledgeable and genuine in his commentary. Really surprised me.
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Unread 11 June 16, 09:33   #15
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I think new games are released on the basis of what a xbox or ps can handle and that drags us PC gamers down to the lowest common denominator.

Remember WMD based a whole racing game series on the feedback of a drift racer no one over 14 years of age had even heard of, Vaughn Gittin, Jr who I think his mum still wipes his chin after he eats .

Last edited by pistoncup; 11 June 16 at 09:46.
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Unread 11 June 16, 09:44   #16
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I think new games are released on the basis of what a xbox or ps can handle and that drags us PC gamers down to the lowest common denominator.
I wish my PC had the power of a ps4

One reason I was interested in the review is my PC won't run AC, pCARs or rF2.
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Unread 11 June 16, 09:57   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Wright View Post
I wish my PC had the power of a ps4

One reason I was interested in the review is my PC won't run AC, pCARs or rF2.
You don't have to whack out money for a new PC in one hit. You can buy PC parts piece by piece until you have the whole set. That's how I got my new i7 blitzer. It all went in a second hand Gaming case. Recently I topped it off with a seconds hand GTX970 .

Good luck in piecing a PS4 or Xbox together out of parts.

GTR2 still good 10 years on and probably still got 5+ more years in it.

Last edited by pistoncup; 11 June 16 at 10:07.
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Unread 11 June 16, 14:06   #18
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Nice to see somebody enthusiastic about GTR2. Despite the low res cockpit used and the grayed out cars.
You've been a member here for 2 and a half years and been playing it for at least that amount of time and are playing it without the porsche and ferrari cars? I have a hunch you've not even scratched the surface of what GTR2 actually is.

The fix and much much more is here to find, then the world really opens up.
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Unread 11 June 16, 14:38   #19
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Quote:
You've been a member here for 2 and a half years and been playing it for at least that amount of time and are playing it without the porsche and ferrari cars? I have a hunch you've not even scratched the surface of what GTR2 actually is.

The fix and much much more is here to find, then the world really opens up
I guess you failed to watch the youtube in post 1 which this thread is about!
When you do you will get my comments
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Unread 11 June 16, 14:42   #20
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It was probably around 2006 I got into simracing. I never had a clue and found a community that helped me learn. The start for me was GT legends and when I got it I had an impossible time of finding a copy locally, especially as at that time I hadn't a clue about online transactions.

Once I got a copy it was "The Game of the Year Edition" bundled with GTR2. I have to say it was the best return on $20.00 CDN I've ever had. The things that drew me in and appealed to me then STILL do. Suddenly thinking they were "not up to par" would be like suddenly thinking my Steve McQueen movies suck because they're too old to be any good. My health has been preventing me from doing much simming recently but when I do I been back to these two and no matter what new game/sim I get into, I find there is nothing like firing up GTL at Goodwood with the TC65 cars and going to the U.K. for an hour or so.

I love the scca1981 Honda Civic mod for GTR2 and find the same thing. I can go to Cadwell and blast away in these wee buzz bombs and find myself the whole time with a HUGE grin.

So yeah, to me at least, they "hold up". I like the newer stuff too though but just find myself always drifting back to these two sims.
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Unread 11 June 16, 15:55   #21
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Game design and single-player experience was at its peak from 2002-2006.
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Unread 12 June 16, 01:38   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syhlif32 View Post
I guess you failed to watch the youtube in post 1 which this thread is about!
When you do you will get my comments
You're totally right. I have completely missed the point of this thread and hadn't watched the video.

My apologies for being a fool. And essentially off topic responses.

On topic, yeah it's interesting. If he does more races, hopefully we can get him the Ferrari and Porsche cars. I also think he has to do longer races. 5 laps doesn't do anything.
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Unread 12 June 16, 05:34   #23
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About youtube test/commentary from billy, I think it is a fair opinion and I won't give mine as the success of GTR2 speaks for itself
But, as syhlif32 mentioned it, why using steam version (promotional ) instead of original 2006 version (and don't tell me that nobody at ISRTV own the dvd, for a specialist simracing team it would be weird) if the purpose of the video is retro-gaming : I mean real retro-gamers use even retro-pc (pentium1, 486dx2,386sx,286,8086) to play exact game in exact conditions.
Other than that, even GTR2 is a rock solid base, why don't speak about mods which change totally all aspects of the game in term of physics/textures : full modded GTR2 has not graphics as outdated as we can see in video, and I don't speak about "illegal" conversions, but only with mods which can be found here at nogrip of course
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Unread 12 June 16, 07:39   #24
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Please, can someone tell me if the Steam version of GTR2 is the same as the DVD version, from the physic side? My question is because I've discovered that the G version and the Steam G version of rFactor 1 are not the same as the DVD version, those versions give the drivers an advantage of 1/1.5 seconds in every lap. Now (too late) I know why I was one second slower than the others without any reasons .
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Unread 12 June 16, 13:18   #25
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It's my understanding that Billy is just a review correspondent for ISRTV and doesn't really work for Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde. He had/has is own channel on Youtube where he comments/reviews on a lot of racing sims from years past way before becoming any part of ISRTV. The same goes for the other new fella, Mark Puc (Aussie Stig).

Billy's own videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyu...iEvZVG4YKrXTsw

Billy does mention in his video that he never had a PC where he could run GTR2 at it's fullest so it makes me wonder if he doesn't have a retail DVD any more. Then it could be the fact that Steam is more convenient for him.
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Unread 12 June 16, 13:47   #26
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Quote:
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.... Despite the low res cockpit ....
People still rave about Richard Burns Rally yet its cockpit makes the worst of GTR2 look 'state of the art'.
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Unread 12 June 16, 13:55   #27
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I assume he means the reviewer hasn't opted for the high res cockpit option in GTR2s settings rather than a criticism of GTR2.
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Unread 12 June 16, 16:05   #28
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Originally Posted by ColdBrain View Post
It could be slightly more forgiving to drive but it's ok IMO.
......
Headshot !
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Unread 19 June 16, 22:35   #29
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It's still gives me what I want. That and rfactor in my case. They will always have a place on my hard drive I guess.
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Unread 20 June 16, 04:56   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franco1001 View Post
Please, can someone tell me if the Steam version of GTR2 is the same as the DVD version, from the physic side? My question is because I've discovered that the G version and the Steam G version of rFactor 1 are not the same as the DVD version, those versions give the drivers an advantage of 1/1.5 seconds in every lap. Now (too late) I know why I was one second slower than the others without any reasons .
AFAIK it is the same version otherwise there will be mismatches between DVD & Steam owners which is not the case. Only difference is EXE and maybe credits files that nobody reads except people who are quoted in
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Unread 23 June 16, 02:16   #31
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AFAIK it is the same version otherwise there will be mismatches .................
Yeah which means Online the 1/1.5 seconds was placebo.



1 second between sim builds offline is certainly possible with tyre and physics updates but is at the extreme end of things.

For example stickiest rF2 builds, F3-Eve Belgium I could lap in 4:15s consistently and fairly easy.
Latest build is harder to do 4:16s.

But like I said that is one of slowest cars on longest tracks , the difference shrinks significantly the faster the cars get.
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Unread 23 June 16, 03:32   #32
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"stickiest rF2 builds"

thought this was a GTR2 thread
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Unread 23 June 16, 04:37   #33
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Quote:
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"stickiest rF2 builds"

thought this was a GTR2 thread

It was just a example of build differences offline and why he "may" have
experienced a difference no matter what sim........

If you look it was franco1001 whom was talking about rFactor1

( obviously he did not mean GTR2 as it only had 1 update )


So I ask once again jgf are you just going to have a go at me or the person I responded
to as well ? .................... lol sucker lol



Quote:
Originally Posted by franco1001 View Post
Please, can someone tell me if the Steam version of GTR2 is the same as the DVD version, from the physic side? My question is because I've discovered that the G version and the Steam G version of rFactor 1 are not the same as the DVD version, those versions give the drivers an advantage of 1/1.5 seconds in every lap. Now (too late) I know why I was one second slower than the others without any reasons .

I mean to say, he was sad about it ( see smilie p ) not GTR2 ....... and all I tried to do is make him feel better by giving him a rational logical explanation for the discrepancy. lol

Last edited by DurgeDriven; 23 June 16 at 04:54.
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Unread 23 June 16, 05:27   #34
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Lol, just picking at you.
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Unread 23 June 16, 08:19   #35
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It's still such a solid and complete sim. We still run a GT1 league with with 25 drivers grids. Just finished the season and looking at another one possibly, certainly a 10 year anniversary race though!
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Unread 26 June 16, 04:59   #36
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He's done a second video. He listened to the feedback regarding patching it and making it look a little better, so very positive. The video isn't really as informative as the first one though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChZ2ezBMlMQ
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Unread 11 August 17, 12:15   #37
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New Billy Strange video at ISR : BARCELONA 2003
http://www.isrtv.com/gtr2/gtr-2-2003-fia-gt-barcelona/
...would be better with HQ MODS v7 :green:
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Unread 11 August 17, 17:01   #38
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I'm also late to gtr2 even though I obtained it years ago for under 5 bucks along with gtl. It took me roughly 4 months or so to completely get most aspects of modding down for gtr2 and I would say it's completely underrated. papyrus nr2003 is going on 15 yrs old and there's still a committed community (talk about limitation graphics-wise) it's way behind gtr2...

problem with gtr2 outside of some of the 2d/3d artists for p&g and team21 (and a few independents) is you've got people plucking models left and right from all over the place and dumping them in with almost zero attention paid to details like accuracy and template work. No doubt it's behind later date racing sims, but the ease of modding & customization has held me back from even trying forza, ac, etc all. If attention to detail and effort is applied, gtr2 can stand up to just about any sim-experience. If I can pull this sort of detail out of the camaro cockpit (which is a low end model for gtr2) graphically I have zero issue with it -

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nr2003/comm...t_final_build/
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Unread 11 August 17, 17:10   #39
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I've had a 2 months run with GTR2 (PnG) a bit ago, was very positively surprised - game still kicks and is probably nr.2 game to me still. Still looks good, has flags, weather, good physics and good content. Unfortunately, lack of flat spots, native VR and Crew Chief makes it very difficult to go back to, but, absolutely awesome game

Lack of Crew Chief actually can be fixed if some genius programmer extracts all the data needed out of gtr2.exe memory (not that unrealistic bearing in mind game is not updated anymore), but unlikely flat spots or VR can be added.
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Unread 11 August 17, 19:34   #40
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Quote:
Lack of Crew Chief actually can be fixed if some genius programmer extracts all the data needed out of gtr2.exe memory (not that unrealistic bearing in mind game is not updated anymore), but unlikely flat spots or VR can be added.
I believe your are the genius we are waiting for?

I really enjoy the content but like Theironwolf I am drifting to the darkside (Rf2).

Will still be using GTR2/GTL since it is so easy and enjoyable to mod and make changes. And in 4K GTR2 looks very good.
I had good experiences with GTR2 VR using Reshade. Operating the menus are difficult and getting it to work takes a lot of patience but when behind the wheel it works great.
MSI TRIDEF Vr works well too. If you have any MSi gaming hardware you can get 90 days trial period. Works best with win 7 due to the admin issues in win 10.
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Unread 11 August 17, 19:42   #41
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I believe your are the genius we are waiting for?

I really enjoy the content but like Theironwolf I am drifting to the darkside (Rf2).

Will still be using GTR2/GTL since it is so easy and enjoyable to mod and make changes. And in 4K GTR2 looks very good.
I had good experiences with GTR2 VR using Reshade. Operating the menus are difficult and getting it to work takes a lot of patience but when behind the wheel it works great.
MSI TRIDEF Vr works well too. If you have any MSi gaming hardware you can get 90 days trial period. Works best with win 7 due to the admin issues in win 10.
How was your tracking with Tridef or Reshade, was it smooth or stepped? That was the biggest issue with vorpx - stepped tracking (not smooth).

Thanks for your kind words, sure I can do it, but it is very unlikely I will even if someone will do the hardest part - find a way to inject into gtr2.exe and write out needed variables to Crew Chief for consumption. See, I have to be practical - spend time on rF2 experience improvement, or on GTR2? GTR2 will never have features rF2 has, and I know some people might be upset, but it makes no sense to me to invest time there - even though it is fantastic game. In my view - GTR2 is superceeded already in everything but driving school and Rain FX. But I won't be surprised if someone does that eventually, it is simpy very unlikely it will be me

I am glad you see light with rF2. It is not easy to see how good this platform is if you don't give it a fair chance ( a lot of time and patience).

Last edited by TheIronWolf; 11 August 17 at 20:01.
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Unread 11 August 17, 22:13   #42
syhlif32
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I got the hdk 2 vr headset and there is a freepie osvr script that reads the headset directly and then used the opentracker to translate into trackIr commands.
Works as good as tracking in steamVr games.
The problem with Hdk 2 is after 30 min it start going crazy with tracking so put an Edtracker on top of thee headset and used that directly.
No positional tracking just up, down, left and right which is fine for racing games anyway.

You are right the driving school is still something unique to gtr2. And alone worth the purchase.
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Unread 11 August 17, 22:37   #43
TheIronWolf
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syhlif32 View Post
I got the hdk 2 vr headset and there is a freepie osvr script that reads the headset directly and then used the opentracker to translate into trackIr commands.
Works as good as tracking in steamVr games.
That's quite an achievement Maybe one day I'll try it, hopefully same hackery is possible with CV1.
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Unread 12 August 17, 22:38   #44
syhlif32
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you need extended mode for this to work!
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Unread 25 October 17, 04:14   #45
Sigsako
 
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GTR2 is my go to fix. that and P&G.
Both are amazing to me, but I will say that I have only tried Race Factor to compare.
So, I have very limited experience, but can't praise GTR2 enough.
BUT.......
The graphics of GTR2 are obviously WAY less impressive than todays offerings, and I'm now considering additional game options, which I will discuss in a new thread, but here is a question/statement from someone who has very little idea on how this stuff works.
How good would it be if an upgrade was available for GTR2/P&G to bring the graphics to today's standards?

Imagine P&G with todays graphic ability.
Those cars, all that additional content and in crazy good clarity.
Now that would be a game changer.

Last edited by Sigsako; 25 October 17 at 04:22. Reason: typo
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Unread 9 December 17, 22:30   #46
spudgun1967
 
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Still love to drive GTR2, AI is still a challenge to race against and you gotta watch out for those cheeky little nudges, but hey 2 can play at that game : )
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