Unread 6 October 17, 03:08   #1
Terminus Est
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Default Forza Motorsport 7

I've been playing it for a while and I think I'll just quote my impressions that I posted on because they're quite extensive:

I remember back in the day when I still used my Xbox 360, I was a big fan of the Forza Motorsport series, having started with 2 and also picked up 3 and 4, and before then I had enjoyed all of the first four Gran Turismo games on the PSX and PS2. Forza Horizon, with its emphasis on arcade gameplay and absurd shenanigans, never interested me and, while I still would have liked to play Forza 5 and 6, I didn't want to badly enough to buy an Xbox One. In the meantime, I got into PC sim racing games, starting with GTR 2 and going into RACE 07, rFactor, Shift/Shift 2, Assetto Corsa,, etc. and bought a Logitech G27 wheel. When I heard Forza was coming to the PC for the seventh installment, I was pretty excited, and even tried out Forza Motorsport 6 Apex (OK, but very shallow) and Forza Horizon 3 (hated it immediately, asked Microsoft for a refund and got it), before pre-ordering Forza 7 the day before launch. Now I've had the chance to play it for several hours, reach the Seeker championship, and collect a few cars. I'll be comparing this not just to previous Forza and Gran Turismo games, but also to the more hardcore PC sims I've become used to.

Forza 7's physics are good if you turn traction and stability control off. The tire physics feel nice and intuitive and it's easy to probe the limits of a RWD car without provoking sudden oversteer, though I think the cars have too much traction overall. The force feedback isn't bad, better than rFactor, but not up to the exquisite level of SimBin's games. I didn't like that there was a default deadzone with my wheel, this is an incredibly annoying trait for a wheel and the deadzone ought to be set to zero if a wheel is detected. Even with deadzone set to zero, there is a small patch at the center of wheel travel where the wheel offers no resistance at all, making fine corrections a bit more difficult and inaccurate than I'd like. I haven't driven many full-race cars, preferring the slower street models, so I haven't experienced the aero much yet. However, the ASM and TCS don't feel anything like real electronic assists, but make your car feel like some kind of alien space vehicle with overly-dramatic powerslides that suddenly cut off as if someone else is drifting for you. Perhaps this might make controller users feel more like heroes, but I don't appreciate it at all--it's blatantly unnatural and prompts me to try to "correct" the artificially induced slides, costing me time and speed. One thing that's missing is much of a sense of weight--you don't feel the mass of heavier cars like you do in RACE 07 or especially Assetto Corsa. Also, if you're in a night race, the "cosmetic damage" isn't. If you shunt the front end, you lose your headlights. That should absolutely be mechanical damage if you're going to have night driving.

The way Forza 7 and all the other Xbox Anywhere titles I've tried handle different input devices is maddening. Whereas nearly every game in existence can accept commands from multiple input devices simultaneously, Forza devotes its full attention to only one device at a time, and issuing keyboard commands while driving with the wheel can get very frustrating very fast as the computer will sometimes outright ignore commands--not good when you're going 140 mph towards a sharp corner! After an outright miserable control experience with Forza Horizon 3, I outright disconnected the Razer Onza Xbox controller before starting to prevent it from fighting the other devices for dominance even when not being used. I hope they fixed the Xbox controller's constant attempts to usurp control away from other devices, but I'm not eager to test it out.

I appreciate that they finally, finally axed the introductory race where you're thrown into an extremely powerful car in a blind race without even being able to set your options, but the presentation of the career mode is still quite overcooked. There's a reason Star Wars: A New Hope didn't start with Luke Skywalker dispatching 16 Dark Jedi with lightsaber flourishes and force powers--he had to earn the right over three movies to say "I am a Jedi, like my father before me", and when the game tells me from the word go that I'm entering the most exclusive and prestigious competition series in the world that "accepts only the best", it's downright risible. Compare to Gran Turismo 1 and 2, where you had to buy an old car from a used car dealer and fight your way through grassroots club series (simplified as they were on a primitive 32-bit console with 1MB memory) before you could even call yourself a professional. Here, your first car, if you pick the slowest series choice available, has 250-300 horsepower and after you beat that series, you're immediately thrown into a head-to-head against Ken Block (!!!) in a car vastly more powerful than the one you just got out, on an unfamiliar track, without even the affordance of practice laps--"test drive" is locked out. This is, frankly, ludicrous, and it's not helped by Ken Block's phoned-in macho posturing voiceover about his passion to excel (you know, instead of talking about driving or the car I am being forced to race in) before the race. You even could, if you start off with lots of paid DLC and manage your credits wisely, get into a V12 supercar championship immediately after beating Ken Block, and the whole progression comes across as rather risible. There are tons of overly-dramatic cutscenes, overblown voiceovers full of vapid nothings about speed and versatility and the desire to win, and quite frankly, if the game needs to tell you over and over and over that you're the best, baddest driver ever, you aren't. Everything is just handed to you and thus has no real value when you get it.

Speaking of bad drivers (but not the good kind of bad), the drivatars drive a lot like real randos on Xbox Live would--which means they race dirtier than a gerrymandered election and ram into you on purpose! Woooooooo! Personally, I'd rather speculate on the personalities and driving styles of "M. Rossi" and "J. Davis" than end up the middle guy in a three-car pileup with XxSkrillexFan2003xX and DEEZ TRUCK NUTZ, whether they be real 13-year-olds or just their AI representations. "Limit AI aggression" doesn't help much, they still drive like maniacs regardless. If these were real races, the entire grid would be black-flagged before the end of the first lap.

Car selection is good, but I wish the game would give more attention to the slower, older cars, which are not only a forgiving, easy-going way to get into driving without loading yourself up with too many assists, but can be loads of fun in their own right, with sublime cars like the FC RX-7 and E36 3-series that trade raw power for immaculately balanced chassis and light weight. I'd certainly have much rather had the Hot Hatch challenge with older hot hatches and taken the E36 323ti instead of the Audi S1. Not only is it a lighter, more modest car that's more believable as an entry-level racing car, but it's also RWD in a field of mostly FWD and AWD cars, which makes it more special than any of the modern hot hatch options. I know some people will hate the homologation, but I have no real problems with it if it will stem the plague of AWD Vipers and hyper-optimized class-dominating setups of previous games.

I also am not big on the lack of solo play options after many, many, many hours doing hotlaps in PC sims. Sometimes you don't want the stress and frantic pace and sudden, unavoidable crashes from racing the drivatars and just want to kick back and practice your lines, or enjoy a nice car. Here, you basically just have a race all alone, waltz to the finish line, and get the shower of confetti and token payout after having beaten nobody, which feels almost insulting. Can we please have an unlimited time trial/practice feature? And while we're at it, why not qualifying? Gran Turismo had it all the way back in 1997, and practice and qualifying are a great way to warm up for a race and/or learn a new track.

So overall, it's enjoyable, but it feels way more in-your-face and bro'd up in its presentation than Forza 3/4. I'll keep playing it and probably finish the career mode, and it's probably the best racing game going on Xbox (lol if you play Assetto Corsa on Xbox, you're not even getting 1/10 of the intended experience), but if Forza is also going to be a PC game, I think it should be measured against PC racing games, and for people who value driving over a power fantasy, it falls short not only of the PC competition, but its own predecessors.
I feel that Forza's physics become especially poor with the high-performance racing cars. I tried a mid-engined Volvo S60 STCC car (why oh why did the FIA abandon the lovely Super 2000 cars for these overcooked, overpowered monstrosities) and it seemed to have a mind of its own, one that was hell-bent on killing the driver. Even the huge V8 Corvettes in GTR 2 don't feel so terrifying and treacherous as this touring car--and oddly enough, if RACE 07 wis to be believed, the old Super 2000 and Group A touring cars were about the most forgiving, predictable race cars around.
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Unread 9 October 17, 07:11   #2
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Is it just me, or does this look like the kind of review that I would write, also?
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Unread 9 October 17, 08:18   #3
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I've enjoyed games from Poliphony's GT saga for the Sony PS consoles (up to GT5, but especially the oldest ones), the casual laidback aproach was always an enjoyable alternative to more serious racing sims. So I was actually curious to try Forza 7, as it would be a good modern equivalent for the PC.

But I'll have to join the growing list of people who turn their backs to it.

The unfortunate decision from MS to lock yet another game to DX12 and Windows 10 (plus restricting purchases to the moronic Microsoft Store, in the age of Steam and GOG) instantly translates to a resoundant "NOPE! NO DEAL".
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Unread 9 October 17, 09:03   #4
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I just want the utes, but having to buy a operating system as well to run it, is a bit much too ask.
Thinking about it . Apparently Microsoft only make $500 million in Australia and therefore don't pay tax , Why would buy it.
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Unread 10 October 17, 15:47   #5
Jack Straw II
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This may not be the best spot to bring up my questions but since I see a couple of familiar names in this thread I'll give it a shot.

I've been a PC racer, involved mostly with GT Legends which I really love save for the rather antiquated visuals. I've dabbled with Assetto Corsa but it leaves me disappointed and annoyed.

Lately I've been reading about Forza 7 and the world of console sim racing and find myself intrigued but also baffled by all the smoke and mirrors.

I've invested in upgraded wheel, shifter, pedals, and the like for my PC and I wonder if any of my hardware will be compatible with the console platforms?

The learning curve for GTL and it's many mods was a steep climb for me and I'd like to know from those who have used both the older PC games and console games if they are as relatively complicated or if they are more of a plug and play situation.
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Unread 14 October 17, 01:08   #6
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The console Sims, Assetta Corsa, Project Cars 1 and 2, are really the only sims on console.

To sort of compare them to the PC sims I have played and know I can give you an idea.

I've played GTR2, GT Legends(those two being my favs), Race 07, P&G based off of GTR2.

Comparing these games is kinda like comparing Red apples to granny apples. They are not totally dissimilar, but they are different.

Truthfully, I think the best comparison is between GTR2 and Project cars. You can feel that some of the GTR2 dna is in PCARS.

They are both easy to pick up and play, but difficult to master. GTR2 is much more envolved. Much more to tweek. So far I've only done private tests in PCARS 2. Getting a feel for the physics and the grip.

The grip in PCARS 2 seems very good. Just make sure you change both front and rear tires.

The ability to adjust the seat position is good. Graphics are excellent. I have a 50 inch 4k screen, and it shows off the graphical improvements quite nicely.

Sound has taken a nice leap forwards. You can adjust tire noise. As well as other sound effects.

I haven't delved into career mode yet.

The weather and time of year effects are awesome.

If they could make a PCARS that is specifically focused on classic cars would put me in heaven.

I don't know if anY of the peopeople from Simbin helped with PCars, but it feels like they were involved, or were the primary influence.

Assetta Corsa on the other hand, is quite different. The physics feel slightly different. The graphics is comparable. But the overall structure is different.

Neither of these games is remotely arcadey. But they are somewhat less sim like than their PC counterparts.

Just driving the cars around the track is fun enough. Can't wait to try my first 24 hour race.

If you want a PC like game on a console. PCARS 2 is your game.

End of line.
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Unread 15 October 17, 02:33   #7
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Originally Posted by markspeed View Post
I don't know if anY of the peopeople from Simbin helped with PCars, but it feels like they were involved, or were the primary influence.
The SBDT / Simbin team that did GTR1 then split off into Blimey Games to make GTL and GTR2 went on to become Slightly Mad Studios. There's actually a fair few guys from the original GTR2002 mod still working there - Ian Bell founded the company and still trolls forums, Doug Arnao is still doing the physics, Jan Frischkorn is still painting liveries, Perran Truran is still modelling the cars, and a few others too. The original brief for pCARS was pretty much 'make GTR3', because they were sick of being told to make NFS games.
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Unread 15 October 17, 20:07   #8
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That's what I did not know. Who or the those people, and what they're woring on.

It's nice to know that's what their target was. Cause it does feel like GTR3, even if it isn't officially.

I was just driving a bunch of cars at Circuit de la Sarthe. Driving at dusk in a variety of cars including the Paganini prototype car. Can't recall the name of it.

I found it suprisingly more drivable in PCARS 2. It's a nice challenge trying to get tires up to temperature at dusk.
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