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Unread 2 October 17, 10:04   #1
mentalextra
 
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Default How do you build an engine

Just out of interest, how accurately can you reproduce an engine in GTL to match the characteristics of the 'real life' version?
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Unread 3 October 17, 00:29   #2
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turbo's can't be replicated properly (basically no lag replicated) but NA and supercharge engines are pretty close . Hand edit a similar engine or there is a engine making program somewhere for Rfactor that can be used in GTR2 .
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Unread 3 October 17, 05:15   #3
Nappe1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mentalextra View Post
Just out of interest, how accurately can you reproduce an engine in GTL to match the characteristics of the 'real life' version?
Closer than people downloading the car want to. Cars having engines matching their ugly characteristics like overheating or massive fuel consumption have never been download hits.

Probably because the cars in original game do not feature such things and/or because cars in game are classics with spherical glow of awesomeness surrounding them in people's memories.
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Unread 4 October 17, 17:24   #4
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Well, answering your question would also mean you'd have 100% reliable engine data...
But if you do, you can replicate them pretty much exactly, except for Turbo engines.
The power/torque curve no problem. Fuel use, no problem. Heat, no problem.
And if you have good statistics about when/how often the stuff explodes, that is also no problem.
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Unread 7 October 17, 11:22   #5
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OK, so would it be possible to 'build' an engine with the characteristics of a diesel engine for example?

Apart from HP/Torque can you adjust the engines responsiveness on the throttle. For example the Coventry Climax in the Lotus Elite has very definite characteristic slow response/high inertia on the throttle
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Unread 8 October 17, 20:53   #6
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Yes there is an inertia value as well I think.
Or flywheel weight, something like that.

Diesel engine would not be a problem (as long as they have no turbo).
What you get is simply torque x rpm = HP.

In small engines you need to boost the low-down torque a bit,
the AI uses 1000-1250 rpm when they leave the garage. If you don't do that,
you get the problem that on garages 'on a hill' the AI never practise.
They just stall and sit in the garage.
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Unread 9 October 17, 19:54   #7
mentalextra
 
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Just out of interest why are turbo engines a problem?
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Unread 11 October 17, 14:22   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mentalextra View Post
Just out of interest why are turbo engines a problem?
Because in the old GMotor games are not reproduced properly
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Unread 11 October 17, 18:20   #9
carham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzaman View Post
Yes there is an inertia value as well I think.
Or flywheel weight, something like that.
The "rotational inertia" value is set in the engine file by the statement:

EngineInertia=x.xxx // SI values: (kg m^2)

The numerical value is generally proportional to the peak engine output torque and the basic engine use/architecture.

Typical values are shown in the attached chart:

http://www.nogripracing.com/gallery/...p?photo=182624
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Unread 13 October 17, 06:15   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mentalextra View Post
Just out of interest why are turbo engines a problem?
in GTL you do two curves for engine; one for the torque and one for the engine braking torque. There's no Power curve, it is calculated with simple formula from torque, which is pretty much same to all normally aspirated internal combustion otto engines. However when the engine output is boosted by charging it the amount of power in certain rpm with certain amount of torque differs from the NA engine.

So the power calculation goes wrong in turbo engines. Of course you can compensate this by adding more torque, but that's technically not same thing. (however how much the error really effects the car in game is totally different thing. There's tons of super and turbocharged cars in mods section and I have never heard anyone complaing about their realism. And that's mostly because this is still just a game in the end.) Later ISI engine models have additional parameters defining amount of boost in certain rpm range, but that's not supported in GTL version.
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Unread 13 October 17, 11:40   #11
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Nappe1, do you think is there any possibility to do anything to have proper turbo engines in GTL or GTR2 (IIRC GTR2 doesn't support turbo boost either)?
I mean programming a patch or whatever, or is it "hardcoded" and we will never have proper turbo engines?

I have tried some turbocharged mods and i feel them pretty good, not sure if they are realistic, but definitely i feel good with them. Anyway, in the end they are videogames, and they will never be real life, no matter how much improvements on physics, VR, etc we get .
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Unread 13 October 17, 14:26   #12
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All turbos what I´ve driven does job ok (lag,boost etc.), waiting if someone(Nappe ) is mad enuff to do diesel engine to GTL or is it done already...
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Unread 13 October 17, 16:34   #13
Nappe1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73al View Post
Nappe1, do you think is there any possibility to do anything to have proper turbo engines in GTL or GTR2 (IIRC GTR2 doesn't support turbo boost either)?
I mean programming a patch or whatever, or is it "hardcoded" and we will never have proper turbo engines?

I have tried some turbocharged mods and i feel them pretty good, not sure if they are realistic, but definitely i feel good with them. Anyway, in the end they are videogames, and they will never be real life, no matter how much improvements on physics, VR, etc we get .
It is part of the physics simulation engine that the game has built with. It is not totally impossible, but highly unlike that someone would reverse engineer the game and find way to inject newer ISI engine in it.

However, I thought in last decade that no one would be nuts enough to study and make new rash graphics libs to NFS III and NFS IV, but now almost 20 years after the release of NFS III, someone has made it and so the game is now supporting wayyy newer DirectX than the 6.0a which was used when the game was released.

...so I might be wrong here. However I wouldn't start waiting boost support for the GTR/GTL/GTR2. The wait could be a lot longer than the time you need to get frustrated for the wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KDiesel View Post
All turbos what I´ve driven does job ok (lag,boost etc.), waiting if someone(Nappe ) is mad enuff to do diesel engine to GTL or is it done already...
I have not made Diesel, as there's no car in period (and in works) which would have such engine. Closest one in characteristics has been 308ci flathead inline-6 engine of The Hudson Hornet. Factory 7X race engine revs only to bit over 4000 rpm and makes about 210bhp there, but huge amount of torque (around 750 Nm) in low end makes it very different to all the others.

My "engines" -folder ...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1k...FuRkZnams/view

...has 513 .eng/.ini files. Oldest editted one is dated in Feb 2009, so it is missing probably half a year of my earliest engine edits / designs. However it is nice portfolio and shows also that you need a lot of revisions to get some of them right. just putting the values there rarely makes the engine, gearbox and the car as whole as it should be.

...and oh, it also has quite few unreleased projects. some of them have abandoned for various reasons and some of them are still in works.
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Unread 14 October 17, 10:59   #14
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Thanks for sharing your knowledge Nappe1
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