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Unread 16 May 18, 14:12   #1
lesthegringo
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Default Looking forward to upgrading my rig

Guys, i moved country at the end of last year, and the stupid moving company left some of my house contents behind in Australia, including (you guessed it) my gaming rig.

I've finally be told that the remaining stuff will arrive here mid July, 7 months after they took it from the house..... so I'm going to use that time to work out what to do with it.

The big question is which game; I've been out of it so long that I now have now idea of the games available, but have rFactor 1 and 2, and love the open source way the original rFactor was. Unfortunately I never got on with rFactor 2, but maybe a newer rig will help.

However both are in real terms old games, so I'd like to know what is worth getting now. Good simulation is preferable to arcade and visuals, but I would like the ability to simulate various types of vehicle a la rfactor. Multiplayer and net play is not a big requirement either.

I'm fortunate in that I can afford multiple games and a suitable pc, so what should I be considering?

Cheers

Les
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Unread 16 May 18, 15:42   #2
Emery
 
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If you're really into rF1, then Automobilista (AMS) is the modern equivalent. Most of the car content is unlicensed generic, however the best rF1 mods were ported over. The only catch is there is less modding documentation (none official) and it's still DX9. Probably has the best production AI at this time, though there is still the rF1 tendency of AI to park in the middle of corners and they don't do ovals. It is the least popular sim. No VR.

When was the last time you played rF2? Have you used it in DX11? The mish-mash of content is being addressed, but us vintage fans are a bit dismayed that old car content hasn't been updated. Bugs have crept into the AI code, so the AI experience has backslid over the past 18 months and I'm hoping it will be addressed soon(TM) so it lives up to its full potential.

pCARS 2 is fun with a good collection of content, but... I get annoyed with the AI being blatantly artificial and the absence of yellow flags. Yeah, really, they put no yellow flags in a racing game! AI oval racing is a joke unless you turn aggression down to 0 and limit the number of opponents otherwise it just becomes one big wreckfest. pCARS 2 is third most popular. Official modding consists of car skins. Unofficial modding includes adding cars, but it's not easy.

Assetto Corsa (AC) production has ceased, so only modders will take it forward now. No day/night cycle, no dynamic weather, no rolling starts in single player. Apart from GT3, official content is a big mish-mash and 50% are street cars, so squarely aimed at people other than racecar simmers. Despite this, it is the most popular game, even among simracers. I find it is a good driving game, but I rarely attempt races. Modding fully supported.

Assetto Corsa Competitione (ACC) will be a GT3 game that looks promising, but will be early access (out sometime this summer) and may require top notch hardware. First glimpse of gameplay comes next month. Modding not officially supported.

Raceroom keeps improving and expanding content. Still only DX9 and, despite descending from ISI code, it lacks day/night cycle (doesn't have dynamic sun position!), yet is the best looking DX9 game out there. Recent AI improvements place it just behind Automobilista. No modding, not even 3rd party skins. Raceroom has about the same popularity as rF2.

Wreckfest is a guilty pleasure based on destruction derbies. Stadium smash-ups or no-holds barred road races. Arcade car destruction graphics in DX11 with physics that feel descended from ISI. Nice generic junk cars that look very much like brands you recognize. It is more popular than AMS. Modding is officially supported, but... it takes a certain personality to want to mod this. No multiview triple monitor support, not sure of VR.

F1 2017 is the second most popular racing game. I don't have it, so can't give a proper judgement, but the sentiment I've heard from seasoned simracers is that it is "not bad" where the prior versions were "bad" to "awful". No VR.

F1 2018 will soon be released. From the company pre-release hype, it seems it will keep all the F1 2017 goodness while updating to the current season and including more features. Unknown if it will support VR.

Last edited by Emery; 17 May 18 at 19:32.
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Unread 16 May 18, 16:17   #3
BrunoB
 
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Hey Emery this is absolutely the first time EVER that I have seen such a nice racing sim presentation without any hidden agenda of presenting a personal (biased) favorite.
Good man Emery.
Thats also the reason Im not argumenting for the one of your sims that is my favorite at the moment.
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Unread 16 May 18, 16:52   #4
lesthegringo
 
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Thanks Emery. Last time I played rF 2 was a year or so back, after I made some adjustments to my rig, in order to see if I could get on with it more. If you look elsewhere in these forums you'll see my posts re rF2 and my inability to get on with it, and truth be told I've really given up on it, preferring to accept rF1 and it's deficiencies as it generally gave me a better experience - no, scratch that, always gave me a better experience.

By dynamic weather, I assume that you mean changeable during the course of a race. I can live without that, the same as I suppose day / night racing, as long as the physics of the cars and the chosen weather is good.

My favourite mods for rF1 are the GP79, 88 and MMG2008 mods of the F1 series, plus the porting across of the GT legends cars and all the wonderful variations of the tracks. Others were the BMW touring cars and some of the other interesting one make series.

I suppose that gives you some idea of what I like. I don't have time for online racing leagues, I play this sort of thing at a whim, sometimes for five minutes, sometimes for a few hours, depending on time available. I suspect the easiest part of all this will be the PC hardware - I can pretty much please myself in this respect, as I'll just get whatever the chosen game recommends.

The problem is going to be to find a worthy successor to the venerable rF1....

cheers for all the help!

Les
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Unread 17 May 18, 02:12   #5
Emery
 
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Based on your car choices, you will feel very at home in AMS.
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Unread 17 May 18, 05:04   #6
lesthegringo
 
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Just read and watched some reviews, and I am pretty sure you are right.

If I read right I also don't have to have a mega PC for it either, though whether I get an upgrade anyway is a moot point. Current one is an i5, 8GB ram, GTX660, is that enough or will a better spec be necessary?

I'll have to have a ferret around to see what mods are out there, hopefully the GP79 mod is there!

I'll be hopping over to the cockpit forums, I have a 50kg load cell that I want to incorporate into the rig so will be seeking some advice

Thanks again for the input and your time!

Cheers

Les
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Unread 17 May 18, 07:53   #7
lesthegringo
 
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Maybe a stupid question - assuming a good enough PC and a 4K monitor, can I use the full resolution of the 4K monitor?

Cheers

Les
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Unread 17 May 18, 12:10   #8
BrunoB
 
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Default 4K PC Gaming - Dying or Already Dead?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwYxXrbcJUg
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Unread 17 May 18, 12:27   #9
lesthegringo
 
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Thanks - I had never heard of 1440P displays!

Having said that, that guy's beef seems to be more with the ability to get good frame rates, however I never had any issue with 60fps.

In my experience Racing sims aren't as demanding visually as those first person shooters, so would Automibilista demand so much that it would slow everything down?

Cheers

Les
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Unread 17 May 18, 13:05   #10
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The reason I posted the link is because its my personal oppinion that at the moment then problemfree 4K gaming is 1-2 years out in the future.
Mainly because even a GTX1080 or a Titan have problems pouring pixels out with enough speed - if you dont adjust some of the games graphical params down.
The 1440p is at the moment the best of the 2 worlds(IMO).

ByTheWay: Be aware that the guy also does talk about the Windows re-scaling to be able to read text.
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Unread 17 May 18, 14:17   #11
lesthegringo
 
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I have to say that for Racing sims, the extra wide screens do make sense - after all, how many time do you have to look up and down when driving....?!!

Cheers

Les
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Unread 17 May 18, 16:00   #12
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Personally I have been talking with myself (really clever conversation) if/when I should buy one of the best 21:9 monitors to find.
Hehe Im still using an old 21" NEC 1680x1050.

But I have also started the waiting game for a pair of affordable and GOOD VR goggles.
Because this is the only way of getting the "real" feeling of sitting in a sim racing car.

Hahaha. I just found my favorite racing sim reviewers first meeting with some reasonable VR goggles and a racing sim.
If you hasnt seen this yet then you have something to laugh about soon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeKjVWIbwzE
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Unread 17 May 18, 16:37   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesthegringo View Post
In my experience Racing sims aren't as demanding visually as those first person shooters, so would Automibilista demand so much that it would slow everything down?
AMS delivers 50-100% more fps than other sims.

MrPix showed us what it's like with a 65" 4k TV using a GTX 1080 video card in pCARS 1... eyepoint video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PANWYBd-XMg
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Unread 17 May 18, 18:12   #14
syhlif32
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I newer thought that there was any advantage to refresh rates over 60 hz.
Then I got monitor that could do 75hz and noticed it was more fluid motion and I could sit in front of the screen longer without getting red eyes..
Now I got a 144hz monitor UW and find I can sit in front of it all day without getting red and soar eyes.

I tried a 48" 4K TV for a while and while it was visual stunning the motion blur/ ghosting got to me after a while.

The advantage of UW vs 4K for race sim is you do not waste gpu on pixels you hardly notice anyway.
"AMS delivers 50-100% more fps than other sims."

Only if you do not count GTR2, GTL, GTRE, RF1 and a whole lot of other older titles.
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Unread 17 May 18, 18:48   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesthegringo View Post
Maybe a stupid question - assuming a good enough PC and a 4K monitor, can I use the full resolution of the 4K monitor?

Cheers

Les
Of course you can use it ...but how many games are capable of sending it a 4k signal? I can play old 640x480 games on my 23" 1080 monitor ...with the expected results of a 480 image on a 1080 screen.

It's like having a 4k TV; where I live standard cable is 65 channels, broadcast about 25 channels, perhaps 20% of those have some programming in 1080, most is 720, some even lower.
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Unread 17 May 18, 18:57   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunoB View Post
...
Because this is the only way of getting the "real" feeling of sitting in a sim racing car.....

A befuddling paradox - the "real" feeling of sitting in a "simulated" car.
As opposed to the "simulated" feeling of sitting in a "real" car.
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Unread 17 May 18, 19:30   #17
Emery
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syhlif32 View Post
I newer thought that there was any advantage to refresh rates over 60 hz.
Then I got monitor that could do 75hz and noticed it was more fluid motion and I could sit in front of the screen longer without getting red eyes..
Now I got a 144hz monitor UW and find I can sit in front of it all day without getting red and soar eyes.

I tried a 48" 4K TV for a while and while it was visual stunning the motion blur/ ghosting got to me after a while.
Agreed!
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Unread 17 May 18, 19:33   #18
Emery
 
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Updated the game overviews indicating which do not support VR or multiview.
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Unread 17 May 18, 23:37   #19
syhlif32
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Quote:
Of course you can use it ...but how many games are capable of sending it a 4k signal? I can play old 640x480 games on my 23" 1080 monitor ...with the expected results of a 480 image on a 1080 screen.
Believe most sims can do 4K out the box. And I would say the better GTR2, GTL and Race 07 tracks looks fantastic in 4K.
But yes some of those with low res textures looks pretty crappy!
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Unread 18 May 18, 09:28   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunoB View Post
its my personal oppinion that at the moment then problemfree 4K gaming is 1-2 years out in the future.
My guess is that in 1-2 years we can buy a 4K monitor capable of 120-144 hz - hehe and an afordable GPU able to run games in 4K with full graphical settings.
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Unread 18 May 18, 11:00   #21
BrunoB
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunoB View Post
Because this is the only way of getting the "real" feeling of sitting in a sim racing car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgf View Post
A befuddling paradox - the "real" feeling of sitting in a "simulated" car.
As opposed to the "simulated" feeling of sitting in a "real" car.
You are right.
Terrible of me to make such a goofy mistake.
As an excuse english isnt my 1st(or 2nd) language.
I often feel ashamed when Im confronted with all the foreign languages as example US americans are able to handle.
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Unread 18 May 18, 18:26   #22
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I am always amazed at how many people elsewhere in the world speak English, and how fluently. I guarantee not 10% of the people I know in the US speak any other language, and most speak English rather poorly.

Your first statement made sense, but in a way that underscores the major limitation of any racing sim - the inability to convey any "real feeling" of driving a car. In reality we receive and process so much information from the car as we drive, and adjust our driving accordingly, all subconsciously; and no sim gives us any of that "seat of the pants" input, only visual and audio clues and the arguably useful input from FFB. (The main reason I am such a poor simracer, lol.)
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Unread 18 May 18, 19:39   #23
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BrunoB was a little sarcastic about Americans!

VR is hard to describe to people that have not tried it.
Would say more than anything else it is a visual sensor overload. The 3D and the movements are overriding the lack of centrifugal force you fell.
I still enjoy sim-racing on a monitor and can be absorbed by the action but have never felt like i 'sat' in the car.

In VR after 1-2 minutes I feel I am in the car.
Still after a couple of years with VR I sometimes check if my seat belt is on by checking the spot where the buckle is in my car. And it is only after I move my hand there I realize I am just in VR.
A neighbor has a sim cockpit and was mainly using Xbox.
One day he came over to try my VR Headset.
I loaded up R3E. He just sat in the car without driving trying to understand what he saw.
He was perplexed by the fact that the steering wheel on the G27 had a smaller diameter than the virtual wheel and hands he saw as his own.
Moving his hands and arms trying to make them feel like he saw them.

Later he told me he decided right there sitting in the car that he wanted a headset. He now got a HTC VIve
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Unread 18 May 18, 20:38   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syhlif32 View Post
Later he told me he decided right there sitting in the car that he wanted a headset. He now got a HTC VIve
Oh man your description is terrible for a person like me.
Because I can afford the money to buy either the Vive or OR now.
But have until now forced myself to wait a little while until the VR resolution becomes slightly better.
I had (somewhat) decided to get on the wagon by buying the comming Vive Pro - hehe but now I can see that most reviewers are concluding that its not worth the huge surplus money you have to pay for its "theoretical" increase in resolution.

I have also been following the Pimax project - but cannot really figure out if this project is some kind of smart semi-scam targeted stealing the kickstarter supporters money.

ByTheWay: For those of you who still have not checked my Youtube link link out do yourself a favour
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Unread Yesterday, 11:46   #25
lesthegringo
 
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Thanks for the, errr, spirited discussions chaps! So, assuming I spring for a 3440 x 1440 monitor that can run 100Hz what am I realistically looking at spec wise for a pc that can run Automobilista at reasonable graphic settings?

cheers

Les
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Unread Yesterday, 14:02   #26
bob gnarley
 
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Sorry, can't help with the rig!

Just want to add that there is the Steam summer sale at the end of June (starts 25th?) when most of the above content can be had on great deals.


Great summary from Emery too! Would like to add that if you like a bit of rally driving, Codemasters "Dirt Rally" is possibly their best offering for years if at the right price.


There will be plusses and minuses, likes and dislikes with any of the above titles but if you can get them at a price you are happy with there is no harm in any of them. While I can't speak for the F1 titles, none of the above are out and out bad. Just depends on your personal taste.

Have fun!
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Unread Yesterday, 16:40   #27
lesthegringo
 
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Thanks, Bob, took advantage to get the whole lot that was already available for AMS this week!

I have to know, though - is there a formula 1 1979 mod like the one for rFactor?

Cheers

Les
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Unread Yesterday, 19:16   #28
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Not for AMS as far as I know but it does exist for RF2.

There is this F1 '75 skin pack for the Formula Retro...

https://www.racedepartment.com/downl...e?update=18329

… which is a blast to drive!

There is also an F1 '75 mod available by Chief Wiggum. There are a few bits for AMS here at NG but Race Department is probably your biggest resource.

My personal AMS favourite is Formula Vee, then there's the Karts and the Trucks and the Caterhams and...
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Unread Yesterday, 20:51   #29
syhlif32
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Quote:
Thanks for the, errr, spirited discussions chaps! So, assuming I spring for a 3440 x 1440 monitor that can run 100Hz what am I realistically looking at spec wise for a pc that can run Automobilista at reasonable graphic settings?
If you go Nvidia GPU a GTX 1060, 6Gb will do just fine what you are aiming for.
You will need stronger GPU for the same in PC2 and Rf2.
I would go with 1070 or even 1080 if the funds are available.

Not sure about CPU?
In the past I have always used various i5 but fairly recently got a gaming laptop with an i7 for traveling and I must say it feel smother despite it i slightly lower clocked than the desktop i5 home.
Maybe also check the Amd Ryzen

While I am sure 8GB is plenty for most gaming I believe 16gb are the 'new' standard?
The ram speed is not that important I bought 3400 mhz and quite frankly the games run at same fps when I down clock to 2400 mhz.

Everything that runs on rf1 can be converted to run on AMS there are even an automatic tool that does the conversion. Chances are that anything you can think of are already converted!
While I rarely runs AMS anymore I am with Bob Formula Vee is the best and the karts have become surprisingly (to me) good.
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Unread Today, 01:51   #30
Emery
 
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Here's a third vote for AMS = Formula Vee! Maybe we should get an online server going with FVee?

After that, it's whatever content you like. I'm partial to the Copa Petrobras de Marcas because I like underpowered touring cars.
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Unread Today, 05:50   #31
lesthegringo
 
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I've been idly looking at CPU / Mobo / GPU bundles, and saw a RYZEN 7 EIGHT CORE 1700 3.70GHZ (SOCKET AM4) PROCESSOR for 200 quid

That looks like it should be more than enough to power any racing sim - bear in mind, my two boys play all the super graphics hungry games, and I won't let them anywhere near this rig so no chance any really demanding games will be played on it.

Assuming I go for 16GB of ram, how much difference do the various motherboards actually make to plying the games? I'd have a separate GPU, probably a 1060, so unless there is a particular reason (cooling?) I can't see what I would need to splash out on a hi end mobo for.

Or have I (as usual) got my head up my waste socket?

****note I have broken this particular question out onto a separate thread***

Cheers

Les

Last edited by lesthegringo; Today at 06:55.
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Unread Today, 14:10   #32
Emery
 
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Motherboard and case and power supply are most important when considering future upgrade paths.
- Are you always going to stick with a single GPU and just swap it out -or- is there a possibility you'll want dual GPUs (which may or may not be triple width)?
- Are you considering adding multiple buttkickers for tactile feedback and thus might want extra slots for extra soundcards?
- What about a video capture card, for live-streaming or posting YouTube videos?
- Does the motherboard & case have adequate USB ports in both 3.0 and older formats?
- What about a reader or slots for various memory cards from cameras?

Then there's also the question of whether multiple cores will actually help racing sims... at this time, they don't unless you have a lot of background processes running outside the sim. CPU clock speed is still more relevant for performance once you're at 4 cores and 3.7 GHz should be fine.
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Unread Today, 15:02   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesthegringo View Post
I've been idly looking at CPU / Mobo / GPU bundles, and saw a RYZEN 7 EIGHT CORE 1700 3.70GHZ (SOCKET AM4) PROCESSOR for 200 quid
Just a Ryzen update taken direct from the magazine.
My monthly german IT bible PCGamesHW has just tested latest Ryzens(2700x/2600x) against comparabel Intel CPUs and older Ryzens(1800x/1600).
And they conclude conserning the older Ryzens: No reason for buying because of the followers at hand.
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