JMB-Michelotto Project

[bobwilliams]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

A bit more like the sound here, at 31 seconds:

https://youtu.be/NVs8nllPwRw?t=25s

Hehe, this is due to the computer assisted system which manages the engine during the gear changes of the F1 paddles... the car also farts, errr, growls and grumbles because of the presence of deposited fuel which sometimes lay incombust on the manifolds... And then is being expelled with a fiercer accent. Hence the majestic "PROTS" from the car.

At least this is what a friend appassioné of engines told me once...

EDIT

Originally Posted by O-ZERO_Racing

I'm struggling with the triangle inside the numberplate, it's used in Monza, Brno, Magny-Cours by most of the FIA GT 2001 cars. Could it be something with the Super Racing weekend? It's also on the BBR models.

I'm sorry O.ZERO I'm one month late... which triangle are you referring to?

[alexmezza]

@ Terry :

Pics, vids... I've never been able to read what is written in this "triangle" !!!

If you find the reply, contact me, please...

[Crimson764]

That triangle is a tribute to Bob Wollek who passed away before the '01 FIA GT season began. Unfortunately I don't know what it actually says, but I do know it's to do with Bob Wollek. I remember in the Monza broadcast on Eurosport, Martin Haven talking about that.

[alexmezza]

Originally Posted by Crimson764

That triangle is a tribute to Bob Wollek who passed away before the '01 FIA GT season began. Unfortunately I don't know what it actually says, but I do know it's to do with Bob Wollek. I remember in the Monza broadcast on Eurosport, Martin Haven talking about that.

In this vid ?

https://youtu.be/kMUIs0bx2fU

[Crimson764]

Yes it is that one. Martin Haven does talk about it at some point, but I can't remember where.

[bobwilliams]

Hello there racing fans!

Just some news on the JMB Ferrari department, here (I will try to explain my works done in the tidiest manner as possible ):

Lately, I did not focus on the sound problem as I initially intended to (I really don't have the patience ), I preferred instead to concentrate on recreating a proper 2000 JMB Ferrari 360 Challenge 3D model instead. A work facet which is equally messy... as I would found out few hours later. Two previews of the work done until now follows:

Although the rear and front bumpers looks OK and ready, the template of these are non-existent, and I will need to repaint the bumpers according to the pictures I have found in the net. Plus; the rear wing is too large, and so it might be time to found a better one already made for GTR2 (if non-Simbin made permission will be necessary). The 3d front bumpers and rear part are part of JorritVD FiA GT 2005 MOD (Version 1!). I luckily kept the thing on my HD! This mean I will have to send him an e-mail.

Another thing: although the front and rear bumpers may seem to make the car ready to roll, the chassis is still too wide - especially there are problems with the front track. Please refer to this document to compare the difference between the 360 GT/360 Challenge widths (let me know if there are problems accessing the doc).
Back to the data I promised:

... What else? Uh, yeah, it will probably take one month before I will finally solve the .CAS madness related to the JMB 2000 360s... Currently the model may appear in-game, but as soon the car is loaded on the track, the sim crashes... And my trace doesn't seem to help being too short (I must remember to lenghten it a bit more ). I'm not too optimist on that, but I am sure with time it will be solved.
The real problem will then be recreating the real 360 Challenge front and rear track width: of course I can shorten the wheel-to-wheel distance, but as soon as I convert my .3DS model with 3DS Max and open it with 3D Sim Ed to convert it in a GTR2 format, the models lose at least the 75% of its detail. Ergo: the work would become useless. If you have followed my previous posts this is exactly the same problem I had with the JMB 2001 rear wing; reason why I will include a 3DS updated 360 Challenge model in the mod (along with the 2001 JMB curved rear wing) hoping somebody will find a way to insert these in the JMB-Michelotto Project in the future.


This is all my simracing colleagues, more data will be provided with the next communication.


P.s.: Yes, I do also have to update the livery!

P.p.s.: Ouf, to be perfectly precise one should update the car data written in the showroom as well... Will I ever remember that?

[GTR233]

nice

[bobwilliams]

... And so I had to start meddling with a 3D model which I may never be able to successfully export in GTR2...

Luckily, and thanks to GTR233 kind attention, I may have a new help in translating the .3ds model into the sim. And - he can share some advices on the models themselves! Thanks Arthur for your desire to contribute.

This is just a sunday evening work.

EDIT: My mistake, there are no 3d model for the Ferrari Challenge non single-bolt rims! These have to be made from the 360GT BBS model!

So, in short, the plan is: finishing the 360 Challenge body and rims, and then starting panicking with my mod colleague Arthur Stepanov in order to enhance the bloody thing on GTR2. Let's keep fingers crossed; after all all the resources are available, wheels included.


P.s.: given the fact a whole new MOD appendix (a new 3d model and physic... and sound files, which is the thing I fear most being the most difficult area to accomplish) has forced its road through the main project, I believe we seriously should delay the final release date - it would not be wise working on it until the end of the year only, so let's switch the original deadline to a saner 30/06/2018, wouldn't you agree?

...This even because it seems my original life decision to be taken in the next january is shifting into something less of an 'hardcore' choice. So, no hurry on my behalf.

[GTR233]

great news ... except for new delay

[bobwilliams]

... And still my daughter hasn't fall asleep!!!

Sans mots.

Just a moment to thank Arthur of his help which is proving essential for the current 3D MOD development!


Keep up with the radio signals fellow simracers!

[GTR233]

nice work from arthur and you

[SilverSYlph]

I'm actually working on the 2000 JMB car that was raced at Magny Cours when the car got the new aero kit.



I just gotta figure out the logo infront of the OMP and whatever logo that is next to the fuel cell cap.

[alexmezza]

Near OMP, it's GFL 23 sponsor (personalised sports wear)...

[bobwilliams]

Originally Posted by SilverSYlph

I'm actually working on the 2000 JMB car that was raced at Magny Cours when the car got the new aero kit.



I just gotta figure out the logo infront of the OMP and whatever logo that is next to the fuel cell cap.

Hey SilverSylph!

Thanks for your help! Looks like the contributor list is growing and growing up!

While realising the livery, SilverSylph, just take into account two things:

1- The 360 JMB Challenge livery does not presents a standard dark green: its green is in some way opalescent, much like the effect represented in the TVR T400 Rs available in our beloved sim. I believe mostly this is obtained by placing a smaller reticule of lighter green flakes under the dark green sprayed area themselves (note this is the method our 2D Artist LeGhoul used in our 2001 spec 360 JMB GTs). These 'colour flakes' effects are de facto present in the Simbin made TVR T400 R skin I pictured;

See?

2- I suggest you to wait before recolouring the front splitter and rear bumper zone of your 360 JMB Challenge: the reason is I am working on the JMB Challenge 3D model, and I don't want you to redo things because of a different 3d bumper and splitter that will be installed (although even the front wheelarches will sport an important modification, I can see the biggest work has been done at the front and the rear). Plus, remember the black 360 GT ("non-Challenge") front splitter has been only used by the JMB team in the 2000 private test undergone in Fiorano (yes, the Ferrari private circuit).

... This is true except for a JMB 360 pre-GT version which could benefit from a revised (black) front splitter in the 2000 "6 Ore di Vallelunga" (still, not yet the Simbin made 360 GT splitter as you can see).

3- ...Welcome aboard, SilverSylph! You deserve full credit, sir (and you too alexmezza)!

Lastly... I beg your forgiveness for I could not upload anymore news on the project, but things went fairly smooth these last days, so excpect an update later this day.

[Maxellero]

Originally Posted by bobwilliams

Plus, remember the black 360 GT ("non-Challenge") front splitter has been only used by the JMB team in the 2000 private test undergone in Fiorano (yes, the Ferrari private circuit).

That's actually not true, this version has been used in last round of 2000 FIA GT race

https://youtu.be/KGcgzJBWZ28?t=26m17s

[alexmezza]

@ bobwilliams :

Why not using a colored specular texture for "chameleon" effect ?

[SilverSYlph]

I've never actually messed with the specular textures before in GTR2, I'm too used to doing that kinda stuff with alpha channels

[bobwilliams]

@ Maxellero: LOOL! My mistake. Thanks for the correction. It looks like we might end with two THREE different models for the 2000 JMB Racing Ferrari 360*.

@ alexmezza: Excellent, alex! That's exactly the effect I would LOVE to recreate! I don't know a thing on specular textures, i'm lucky already I know what's an alpha channel (wait, what was that? ), though I will be look after this, this is too important to be overlooked!

...Now off to the work done!

---------------

In brief, this is the scenario:

Point #5 has been 'overwritten' thanks to the kind volunteer offer of Siversylph!


Now the most difficult part on the projects have arisen:

- Get the special metallic effect as underlined by alexmezza (I am the first in line to require learning the technique, which will prove to be useful in the future as well!);
- Combine the 3D parts until a satisfying result has been reached;
- Err... send a PM to Arthur in order to coordinate ourselves on the nearest project objectives.


P.s.: sorry for having been extra-brief this time, but I already took all my time writing up a nice packed up weekly update, and then found, thanks to the lousy-stinking connection, everything deleted and myself in haste.

* = One Challenge, one Challenge-JMB, one Challenge JMB pre-GT

[alexmezza]

About specular mapping :

I use 3DSimEd for this kind of work... an easy job...

For eg. open the TVR_T400R_TEX.gtr from GTR2 and check TVR_T400R_BODY1_MASK_04153.DDS and TVR_T400R_BODY1_MASK_04154.DDS. You will understand !!!

[SilverSYlph]

Originally Posted by bobwilliams

Hail to thee o simracers!

Just a picture to show you my progressess on the #62 2001 360 GT car. Compare the new quality template (made by our Grafik Berg Meister LeGhoul) with the old one made by Wildman. Kudos to the french modder, anyhow, because without his efforts we would have had no 2001 FiA GT season...

And thumbs up to my modding colleague which has greatly helped me with my duty by realising a very HQ template.







And I also completed the white 360 GT in its last details; now it's 100% complete.

With some luck in ten days this livery should be finished; I will then focus on the #63.

Any chance of sending me the ALTE, FirstAssur.com and AL Plast logos, I've tried searching for them with no luck.

I also manged to figure out the Body Mask, rather hard color to dial in but i got it close

[bobwilliams]

Originally Posted by SilverSYlph

Any chance of sending me the ALTE, FirstAssur.com and AL Plast logos, I've tried searching for them with no luck.

I also manged to figure out the Body Mask, rather hard color to dial in but i got it close

Well, just you wait for you are going to be dialed in as another official Berlinetta fan...

Looks like it'll become a master work (just add that bit of 'shocking green'!)!

(PM sent btw)


EDIT: Ah, freak, we also gotta remember to apply the chrome to the future BBS five-bolts rims, the following 360 GT single-bolt BBS rims weren't as shiny.

[SilverSYlph]

99% Done with chrome'ish green and headlights. Only missing the SAC logo and there is a logo on the wing however i haven't found a picture that even shows me it.

[Maxellero]

Wooooooow it looks incredible

[bobwilliams]

Originally Posted by Maxellero

Wooooooow it looks incredible

Yes, excellent work, Silversylph, I'd say the 360 PRE-GT is near completion! Although for this PRE-360 GT version we'll still have to apply the LeGhoul clearer rims (this time with the Pzero logos) and fix the front GT-style bumper; can you manage to delete via your Painting program the dark grey covers which run all around the front air vents (which is the place where the radiators are positioned, btw) ? If you check the reference pictures you will notice the 360 PRE-GT bumper had no dark grey covers at all (I know I can be easily hated ) ... Otherwise let's fix it via the 3DS and then via 2D!

... Don't hate me Silversylph , it's just that I would love to recreate it perfectly!
Still, your "engraved" yellow light covers are simply astounding!!! A wonderful detail!

Having said that, Silversylph, don't mind for the rear wing logo, I believe I have only seen a picture with the 'Aprimatic' logo on the side of the wing itself. Uh, check back post #156

EDIT: Um, I fear we'll have to place a different grill model... the current one has holes too big in it... I believe I have seen a 360 GT with a finer grill, though... probably already made by the Simbin themselves. I will check this sunday evening.

Maxellero, I also hope we'll surprise you by realising a fully working 360 JMB Challenge! We have Arthur which falls silent, but as soon I took contact with him he immediately proposed an easy and simple solution for the new BBS rims, as said!

Should we chose this solution, and not a new 3D model with realistic exposed bolts, we'll "only" have to narrow the tires width and apply chrome and logos to the rims.

P.s.: I still haven't gave up for that dam...dearly curved rear wing!!!!

[bobwilliams]

...And it will be time consuming!

I am sorry for having delivered no news recently - in the meanwhile real life obligations took the precedence (I had to create my 47 page long personal portfolio for a company which works in racing games nonetheless!... I found some position opened and I could not resist!).

After the current wheel will be finished, I will have to deal with other two 3d files of the moving front left wheel, so that the car will show the correct movement of the bolts while driven. I will have to do the same for the right front wheel (I will obviously proceed creating a mirroring copy), and then there are the rear ones.

Of course I will need to map the new wheels with the new chrome textures and its BBS logos - and its bolts - and I have zero experience in this... Then, how to skin a brand new piece of 3d applied to an old model (I'm thinking to the wheel bolts)???

Let's first finish the models in 3DS Max, I would say, then, I will have to fight once again with the GMT format conversion problems. Which I really hope I will solve, the sooner the better.

Now let me go back to modeling; I have to resize the front left wheel width according to the real 360 Challenge treads...

...All the best, in the meanwhile!

[bobwilliams]

Next update on the project this tuesday. Sorry for the long no posting time.

[Flaux]

Thank you for sticking to this project bobwilliams. I'm really happy you do the changes to the width of the 360. It is the area I didn't like about the original 3d model. Can't wait for this baby to see the light of day.

[bobwilliams]

Hello flaux, and 360 Modena lovers!

After some in-depth reasoning on the project, I decided to cut down the new 360 Challenge 3D rims from the 'to do list' because the work is proving... formidable.

But let me explain in detail why I took this decision.




1. The amount of work hours to put into it.
I should have had to model 3 wheels for each angle of the car. That's to say 3 x 4 wheels for a total of 12 different wheels. Why? Because GTR2 recognizes three different models for each wheel rotation. I would have had to create rims with a different bolts position, and while it's easy to simply copy and paste (in different places of the rims, so to follow an harmonic rotation) to model a whole new 360 Challenge rim I can take three to five hours circa. So I would have had to work for a grandtotal of a 24 hours without track testing and excluding the notorious headaches derived from conversion works. Which is something atrocious. More on this below.

2. Each hour worked on the rims subtract time on the work on other areas (remember I still have a new 360 Challenge sound to create and new data to find on BOGE suspension, and then there's a specific new physic to create, starting from the F1 Challenge '99-'01 360 Challenge MOD, which it kept CTD with my current F1 Challenge and 360 Challenge MOD installations): and please remember I set a deadline on the project!

3. 3DS Max 2015 will NOT work with 3D Sim ED and GTR2.
I asked to a friend of mine, which is finishing his 3D course here in Italy, some opinions on that area of the project. As a result, he strongly advised to take away 3DSM from 'our joyful waste of time' because 3D Sim Ed simply CAN'T read 3DS Max 2015 models in all its details, therefore is only capable of producing badly shaped models without its due details (the famous problem I met before, and of which you know). This although a full iter of conversion is followed (Open with 3DSEd as a .GMT > save as a .3DS > modify the .3DS in 3DSM '16 > open it with 3DSEd > convert it to a .GMT model).

My friend told me it's not the .GMT phase of the conversion itself (as I began to wonder), it's the 3DSEd phase itself which is destroying the data related to the model, and this is due for being an old 3D Editor which does not take into account the complexity of the data manipulated with 3DS Max 2015!

It's much like an equation: you can't get the results if you first let it handle to an adult, and eventually, to a child which still has to learn how fractions works!

Let's remember that, in fact, behind a 3D graphical editor lies a lot of calculations which... well, 3d Sim Ed can't handle, compared to his big brother 3DS Max '15.

... This also mean I will have to find another way to create a proper 2001 Ferrari 360 GT rear wing. And Challenge body.

4. My time is money... sadly more than ever
Well, I am sorry to tell you that currently most of my time is "wasted away" in the research of a new job. Sadly the job opportunity with Renault of last september did not start at all... It simply expired away; as I called my Renault attaché I found out, bitterly, they had already found another person for the role because the job research had been handled to another agency as well, and so, although I only needed to sit down and sign my contract with the HR director of one of the biggest of the Renault dealerships of Rome to finalise the state of things...

I feel sad for the opportunity which did not materialised. As I am finding out, by seeking job opportunities every day, it seems in the last few years the italian job market it's losing its humanity (so, now we can't even say "italiani brava gente"). But that's a long topic, so let's just get over with it.


All this to say we will have to choose the Arthur option on the new 360 Challenge wheels. Which will features 2D bolts in the rims side view, a new chrome effect with BBS logos and... of course adjusted tires width (phew, it's not that difficult in 3DSimEd ). Tomorrow I will start to meddle with 3DSEd (and I will have to take contact with Arthur to change the previous goals set on the car development).





So, basically I highly regret to have taken this decision, it would have been splendid to have a fully working new 360 Challenge 3D wheels, but... if the Project itself is at the stake, things will be in need of evolving.


And thanks for all your kind support... I am happy of have been able to count on all of your help!!!


EDIT: After attempting several approach to 3d Sim Ed I have now resolved installing the Blender software. Let's hope it will prove sufficiently easy to use yet reliable in file format operations.

[bobwilliams]

Dear fellows,

as I have finally found out, a mix of three different 3D editors (3DS Max, Blender, 3D Sim ED), if used in this sequence, might allow me to import the modified models into GTR2 without any problem!

I also have tried finding a working zmodeler 1, 2 and, lastly, 3, but immediately struck off this option from the list because none of them is free (and the free version comes with reduced functionality).

As you have probably noticed, things got really quiet now, here; this is because I will restart the project the 14th of January of the next year. The deadline stays the same.

I am fully focused in finding a proper job now, so my (little) free time is with my family or plain and simple sim-racing.

I have to ask you patience regard this Project; I will probably restart off NOT with the speed of light, these last six months have been difficult and I really hope the new year will find me ready for new challenges in the JMB-Michelotto side of sim-racing.


Thus... All the best!

Originally Posted by Flaux

Thank you for sticking to this project bobwilliams. I'm really happy you do the changes to the width of the 360. It is the area I didn't like about the original 3d model. Can't wait for this baby to see the light of day.

Thanks flaux - your words are deeply encouraging!!! I promise I will do all possible to get the Project to the finish line!

I only need to look at all the work we accomplished together...

[bobwilliams]

Hello boys,

I am sorry for not having posted news since the 14th January, the date in which I promised the restart of my work on the project, but I am now completely involved in a real sim-racing project of mine which is taking my full time. Let's say I work more than the canonical 8 hours per day, but I am immensely happier of throwing my life at it!

In February things will calm down, I will have the project presentation, and the work on the mod will restart.
Slowly, but it will restart (take into account should this presentation be satisfying to the company and the project judged positively I would still need at least two weeks to ... er, acclimate myself with my new role, so for that time there would be no work on the "JMB-Michelotto" ).

Once I will restart, I will have to experiment with my 3DS Max on an observation made by a NG user (can't remember his nick right now ) which advised me to work with an .obj file format in order to have zero trouble with file conversion in the 'Max and 3D Sim Ed: that would make the modified models actually appear in the sim, and that would be wonderful because we might end up with an upgraded curved JMB 360 2001 rear wing (a model I already made, as you know) and... a whole new model, a 360 Challenge!

I will let you know!


BW

[Maxellero]

Don't worry, we can wait

[bobwilliams]

Originally Posted by Maxellero

Don't worry, we can wait

Heh, I am sorry for these continuous delays.

My other (serious) project is revealing itself bigger than expected, and in need of details and much man-hours. I will tell you when the JMB-Michelotto Project will be upaused. It will be probably in february.

Take cake and drive with Godspeed,


BW