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Unread 23 April 16, 11:16   #1
LeGeNd1
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Default 300SL/Griffith Availability & Drifting in P&G

Hi everyone, first post here so go easy on me.

I just have a few questions regarding P&G, hopefully someone from the dev team can answer.

1) Compared to GTL, I noticed 2 cars are missing in P&G (Mercedes 300SL and TVR Griffith 400). Are these omissions intentional (licensing/lack of data/not enough time/all of the above?) or are there plans to add them in the future? I'm aware that there are cars in P&G there are new (Lotus 7, Triumph TR4), so it's not a shortage of cars I'm complaining about. Just more of a curiosity and OCD-ness.

2) Drifting in P&G seems to be harder than in GTL for some reason. Cars like the AC Cobra and Austin Healey can hold long slides all day in GTL, but it's pretty difficult to even get to slide in P&G, let alone hold it for any significant length. I thought that with P&G using period correct tyres and suspension it will be easier to slide around. Any reason why this is so? My guess is cars in P&G go on 3 wheels a lot so it's not exactly easy to get them to hold a drift.

Well that's it from me. A big to the dev team for making such an amazing mod (seriously, this is better than some new racing games released recently), keeping it supported with updates and best of all free! I also just noticed that the physics guy (Aris) is the same guy now responsible for Assetto Corsa! No wonder everything drives so amazing. Keep up the good work guys.
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Unread 23 April 16, 13:30   #2
David Wright
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeGeNd1 View Post
Hi everyone, first post here so go easy on me.

I just have a few questions regarding P&G, hopefully someone from the dev team can answer.

1) Compared to GTL, I noticed 2 cars are missing in P&G (Mercedes 300SL and TVR Griffith 400). Are these omissions intentional (licensing/lack of data/not enough time/all of the above?) or are there plans to add them in the future? I'm aware that there are cars in P&G there are new (Lotus 7, Triumph TR4), so it's not a shortage of cars I'm complaining about. Just more of a curiosity and OCD-ness.
Our intention was/is for every car in P&G to be modelled on a real one which took part in international competition. We could find no examples of the TVR Griffith 400 taking part in an international race. The coupe version of the Mercedes 300SL was the car primarily raced back in the 50s. We found some evidence that the convertible probably ran in one or two international events but no photos to base the skins on and with many other things to work on we decided that trying to cover the 50s as well as the 60s and 70s was stretching our resources too far.

Quote:
2) Drifting in P&G seems to be harder than in GTL for some reason. Cars like the AC Cobra and Austin Healey can hold long slides all day in GTL, but it's pretty difficult to even get to slide in P&G, let alone hold it for any significant length. I thought that with P&G using period correct tyres and suspension it will be easier to slide around. Any reason why this is so? My guess is cars in P&G go on 3 wheels a lot so it's not exactly easy to get them to hold a drift.
Aris is of course no longer around to give a full explanation, but I will try to answer this.

First I would say, don't assume that the period correct tyres have less grip than the Dunlop Vintage tyres used in GTL. In some cases they will have more grip. Also the historic racers in GTL have the same suspension as they had back in the 60s - just stiffer springs.

Second. the Healey in P&G has a lot less power and a lot more weight than its counterpart in GTL. Historic Healeys do produce more power these days - 50 years of tuning know how, but the weight of the GTL Healey is way too light.

Finally, most of the Cobras in P&G are the 4.7 version while most of the Cobras in GTL are the 7 litre version. Make sure you opt for the 7 litre version.
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Unread 23 April 16, 21:24   #3
LeGeNd1
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Wright View Post
Our intention was/is for every car in P&G to be modelled on a real one which took part in international competition. We could find no examples of the TVR Griffith 400 taking part in an international race. The coupe version of the Mercedes 300SL was the car primarily raced back in the 50s. We found some evidence that the convertible probably ran in one or two international events but no photos to base the skins on and with many other things to work on we decided that trying to cover the 50s as well as the 60s and 70s was stretching our resources too far.
Thanks for that explanation. It's a shame that they won't be included, but with the limited resources that's entirely understandable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Wright View Post
Aris is of course no longer around to give a full explanation, but I will try to answer this.

First I would say, don't assume that the period correct tyres have less grip than the Dunlop Vintage tyres used in GTL. In some cases they will have more grip. Also the historic racers in GTL have the same suspension as they had back in the 60s - just stiffer springs.

Second. the Healey in P&G has a lot less power and a lot more weight than its counterpart in GTL. Historic Healeys do produce more power these days - 50 years of tuning know how, but the weight of the GTL Healey is way too light.

Finally, most of the Cobras in P&G are the 4.7 version while most of the Cobras in GTL are the 7 litre version. Make sure you opt for the 7 litre version.
Ah I never knew that Dunlop Vintage has less grip. I always assumed all cars in GTL are shod with more modern rubber. That explains a few things.

Yeah I did use the 7 litre Cobra in P&G. It's still marginally harder to get loose. I've just noticed that the default setups in P&G all have maximum fuel load. I'll try again with lighter load and see if that makes a difference.

I've also read that GTL has this file called "Physics2.gtl" that acts to give the physics a bit more "wobbliness" so maybe that's the cause? It may be difficult now with Aris gone, but has anyone tried to decipher this file and tried to implement it in P&G?
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Unread 13 June 16, 05:34   #4
HR186S
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I did some research on these cars with a hope of painting the skins and having them included. But in the end there was so little information / pictures that it turned out a bit futile
TVR Griffith 400
I found evidence of 3 period cars

MMT7C
Gerry Marshall drove in some races in 1966
The rear arches on this car are substantially different than the GTL TVR.

BFR400B
Chris Marshall raced 1965 / 1966

?
Ted Worswick also drove a Griffith at Brands Hatch in 1965

It would be possible to do the last 2 as the body shapes are quite similar to the GTL TVR. However there are no colour photo's of the cars. Making it a bit hard to paint.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Oulton_Park-1966-09-17-055.jpg (60.8 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg bfr_article.jpg (50.5 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg TVRGriffithBrandsHatch.jpg (37.2 KB, 25 views)
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Unread 13 June 16, 05:40   #5
HR186S
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Mercedes 300-SLS

Paul O'Shea - 1957 SCCA
Only found 1 car that fits the look, but would need a lot of work around the cockpit to make the proper shape. In the end, a lot of work for a single 1950's car.
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File Type: jpg Eagle_Mountain-1957-06-02-030.jpg (77.8 KB, 28 views)
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Unread 13 June 16, 08:32   #6
ColdBrain
 
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It will be difficult to find a real Griffith because it was a special by a dealer. The concept was not unlike the Cobra, as the Grantura was also powered by a "weedwacker" engine before the transplant, but it was done in much more limited scale.
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