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Unread 9 May 17, 19:17   #1
Pizzaman
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Default Some answers to track questions

To Wee Scot:

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After reading through all the threads I could find on rFactor-to-GTR2 track conversions, I'm back to leaning toward buying Evo. Conversions sound like a lot of work, and time I'd rather spend simracing! I'd rather be able to enjoy the tracks I create in my favorite sims (GTR2/P&G) with my favorite mods, even if the terrain I build isn't as beautifully blended as it could be using Pro for rFactor. After all, I'm not even sure I WANT to spend that much time on the terrain.
There are many more differences, and you are indeed better off getting Evo for GTR2.
The problem with the terrein is not BTB. It is GTL/GTR2 which does not support blending ( lerp-alpha) texture.
However, you can use T12AddT2AddT3. GTL/GTR2 supports that.
So, this is a way around it. But it is quite hard to do, and BTB cannot do it.
Most likely you need 3DSmax for it, to map that channel to a whole terrain.
I have done it, it works, but there are many easier ways to do it.

How it works in GTL/GTR2:
- make a G-motor material, T1 addT2 MultaT3
- UV-map your terrain to one texture;
- that should be a black-n-white texture.
- the black is where T2 (for example: grass) will be shown;
- the white is where T3 (for example: sand) will be shown;
--> now by using greys, you can 'paint your track' fluently, like in rFactor.





Quote:
Buildings/objects: Aren't there already a multitude of X-packs that users have created and shared with the BTB community? There may come a time when I want to get into making my own buildings, but starting out, aren't there enough generic ones already available to meet my needs? Again, I'm more interested in creating tracks with a consistent--if only representative--style, rather than photo-realistic venues!
Yes there are loads of X-packs around. Also, you can change textures for them, for instance chance the commercials, or change the colors. That way YOUR pit box will look different than the one in the X-pack that you used.

Quote:
Another question just popped in to my head: Could I also use a basic track/topography framework I create in Evo, in Pro? Or are the two programs incompatible from the start? If not, I could eventually take the basic work I did (and saved) in Evo, and load it into Pro to then create a visually more appealing version for rFactor!
Any track that you have made in Pro can be loaded into Evo, and vice-versa. Just some features (like the lerp/alpha texture) will not work in Evo. The safety car (I think), must be set differently for rFactor, and such stuff. Else you get a 'rolling start in the pit'... or where you put the safety car.

Quote:
Landscape: I thought BTB gives you the ability to directly import GPS data (latitude/longitude/elevation) to create your landscape. Why is it better to first put that data through Sketchup? When the time comes (hopefully soon!), I'll probably need some step-by-step help with building these "canvases" for my art!
Yes you can do that too, but I never quite found out how. I tried it a few times and it was VERY inaccurate. If you do it using Sketchup, you can make your terrain FULL DETAIL to start, decide where your track is, and then change the amount of polygons so that you have less detail further away from the track. You also get to keep the aerial photographs sp your terrain comes 'ready-textured', sort of.

In fact, I use 3DSmax to do that, and after that I also map the T1addT2addT3... and also to partition it, and make LODS if necessary.

Last edited by Pizzaman; 9 May 17 at 19:40.
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Unread 9 May 17, 20:18   #2
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Hybrid Geotools 3d route builder is what i use to get the height of a track. It is not perfect but it does a decent job. And you can import it directly into BTB.
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Unread 10 May 17, 18:13   #3
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Yes you can import KML into BTB, but does it also give you the landscape?

I made modtly fantasy tracks, but importing the landscape as 'terain' would be very handy.
For example to make an update of one of my favourites, Cadwell Park.
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Unread 11 May 17, 15:08   #4
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Gentlemen!

Thank you very much for starting this thread to help me (and others) better navigate the world of track building!

I can't wait to start exploring all the objects and textures available in X-packs! Are they all available at bobstrackbuilder.net once I've purchased Evo, or are there other source sites I should be aware of?

Sketchup, Hybrid Geotools 3d (route builder), 3DSmax? Which do you recommend for a novice like me? I've seen Sketchup referenced in many threads and YouTube tutorials.

KML? Keyhole Markup Language. Are you talking here about using data available through Google Earth?

Please walk me through the steps I'll want to take to create "accurate" terrain for tracks using real roads, both in Virginia and on Caribbean islands!

Thanks again for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience!

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Unread 12 May 17, 16:21   #5
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I think here is a lot: http://www.racedepartment.com/downlo...ies/xpacks.61/

Also, you can open a track that is in the original game in 3DsimEd, and export the meshes/textures of objects. Then you can re-use them in your own track, as BTB comes with 'X-packer' --> any 3ds file-format mesh can be put in it.

I would NOT advise 3DSmax for beginners. First, it costs A LOT. Then, it is difficult to use due to the almost endless possibilities it has. It is like wanting a rose, and buying a whole forest, and then getting lost finding a rose, ending up making yourself a hemp necktie, and yes you might getr roses on your coffin. Harhar. Really. However, there are courses you can take, and sometimes Max comes at a fair price with the course. If you can afford that and have the time, hell yeah do it!

Sketchup is free and will do most of the stuff you want/need, then get 3DsimEd to convert it to 3DS for your X-pack. You'll also need something like Adobe to paint stuff (make textures).

You cannot make 'real roads' using KML. It is much too coarse. You can import the landscape in Sketchup soooo easy, export to a 3ds mesh, and then set up the road in BTB. Which is better anyway as else BTB will not know where is the road and you get trouble with the AI-route.

I'd start out by making a simple layout, export that to your favourite game, and see how it goes. And then start messing around. I'm not as far as to make 'reallife tracks', and might never be. It takes a LOT of time to get it right, too.
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Unread 12 May 17, 17:37   #6
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Here is a free version of Sketchup. Version 6.0 ENG
I have added a tutorial which explains how to add a sketchup object into an xpack and export it into rFactor.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/sa3yhs...etchUpEN60.zip
http://www.mediafire.com/file/hsa39o...to_rFactor.zip
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Unread 17 May 17, 21:27   #7
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Good one.

What you have to watch is that Sketchup makes 'double faces'.

That is, if you make a building, you willonly want to see it from the outside.
Sketchup will make you the INSIDE as well. That means, twice the memory.
And it is useless, because you will never view that building from the inside.
And IF you would want that, you can set it to 'show two sided texture' in 3Dsim Ed ofr BTB as well.

You can kill unwanted poly usimg 3DsimEd, to save some MB.
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Unread 18 May 17, 11:35   #8
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Thanks, guys!

I'll have to wait until next week to take the plunge into BTB Evo, Sketchup, and 3DSimed. Full days today and tomorrow, and then I'm going to New York City to spend the weekend with my son.
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Unread 19 May 17, 23:14   #9
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Well, I COULDN'T WAIT! So even though I won't be able to give them more than a cursory read tonight, I just purchased both BTB Evo and 3DSimED3.

Where do you recommend I put 3DSimEd? Right now, it's in a folder inside my Downloads; that's where I extracted it using 7-Zip.
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Unread 22 May 17, 03:07   #10
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Put it anywhere other than \Program Files or \Program Files (x86). That way you don't have to fiddle with permissions, etc.

I followed my own advice on the previous computer, but totally forgot with this one, so fiddled with permissions since I was too lazy to move it, LOL. So, do as I say rather than as I do.
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Unread 22 May 17, 14:56   #11
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Thanks for the advice. I'll follow it for the both of us!

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Unread 24 May 17, 01:19   #12
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OK, I have a problem...

I tried to "open" 3DSimED3 by double-clicking on the application file (9.7MB) in the folder that was created (3DSimED31h) within Downloads when I extracted the zip file the other day, but got this message:
DLL loading error:
d3dx9_43.dll
Does this mean I need to download and install DirectX 9 before I can use 3DSimED3? Or do I need to move the 3DSimED31h folder out of Downloads, first? Please give step-by-step instructions to the solution!

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Unread 24 May 17, 03:05   #13
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No need to do anything with programs

Download and Install Direct X June 2010

Here is my archive from DRIVERS \DIRECT X

Run DXsetup in the JUNE 2010 folder

https://mega.nz/#!e0w2jIbL!ORqUdUK0E...G28Ubhd45fQpjw

The smaller version in there is from rFactor2
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Unread 24 May 17, 12:21   #14
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Thanks! I'll do that when I get home in two hours.
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Unread 24 May 17, 16:30   #15
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Should I move the JUNE 2010 folder to a specific location on my C drive before running (double-clicking on) DXSETUP, or can I just run it from the DIRECTX folder that was created in my Downloads when I extracted the zip file?

EDIT: I ran DXSETUP and everything worked out fine! Now 3DSimED3 opens. I also needed DX9 for Bob's Track Builder Evo, and TOMORROW I can start exploring how to use both of them, AND Sketchup!

Thanks everyone!

Last edited by Wee Scot; 24 May 17 at 17:06.
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Unread 26 May 17, 21:18   #16
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Any fun yet? BTW if you end up in trouble, you can always upload your "project".
Then the ones that have BTB here can help fix it.

I'm not around very often, but can help if necessary.
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Unread 28 May 17, 04:49   #17
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Thanks for your generous offer! I'm hopefully now just hours from receiving the license I need to start using BTB Evo.

I've actually been spending a lot of hours the past few days enjoying the original cars and tracks in my "fresh" installation of GTR2, and exploring DurgeDriven's GTR2 ESSENTIALS.

I just posted a too-long account of my misadventure with my UserData player file in my "Wee Scott's 'new' computer..." thread. But it had a happy ending and tomorrow I'll get full enjoyment again from the great GPC79 mod for GTR2!

After I've spent some hours getting reacquainted with BTB, I'll look for time to start getting acquainted with SketchUp and 3DSimED!

Thanks again!!
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Unread 30 May 17, 00:53   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwin greven View Post
Here is a free version of Sketchup. Version 6.0 ENG
I have added a tutorial which explains how to add a sketchup object into an xpack and export it into rFactor.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/sa3yhs...etchUpEN60.zip
http://www.mediafire.com/file/hsa39o...to_rFactor.zip
I finally got around to exploring this, but when I tried to run the application, I got this message:

"This application requires Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1. Download and install?"

I'm pretty sure I've already got .NET 2.0 or later from installing 3DSimEd3 or something else recently. But is it like versions of DirectX? Do I need to install .NET 1.1 just like I needed to install DirectX 9.1C or whatever it is?

GOD, I hate all this technical crap!
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Unread 30 May 17, 06:59   #19
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I had the same (using W10), I just put in the whole .NET package and that solved it.
I suppose they left out the old crap in the new .NET, but some programs still need it.

I have almost everything working again, just 3DSmax still being a pain.
Program freezes when opening or importing files, but there's a 'work around'.
I'll have to fix that a bit differently, probably.
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Unread 30 May 17, 12:22   #20
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Ok, thanks! I didn't want to somehow screw up the LATER version of .NET by installing v1.1, but with your reassurance, I'll allow it when I get home in a couple of hours!
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Unread 30 May 17, 16:31   #21
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I've installed SketchUp 6.0, but there are a couple of things I'd like to ask you about.

First, when I started the program from the desktop shortcut, a "SketchUp Pro Evaluation" box appeared, warning me that I have "480 minutes of application use left in the evaluation," and inviting me to buy a license that "unlocks LayOut, (and) 3d model exporters..." Do I really have "only" 480 minutes of this application before I would have to reinstall it or buy a license? And will I need LayOut or the 3d model exporters functions to use SketchUp the way I plan to use it, as a support tool for BTB Evo?

Second, after I clicked "Continue" to get rid of the Evaluation notice, the application opened and a big blank box opened on top of it, titled "Choose Default Settings". The box remained blank. No settings--default or otherwise--were displayed to choose from. Was this a program bug, or is something wrong that I need to fix?

After I closed this box, a Learning Center dialog box that had been under it invited me to start learning about SketchUp, so it looks like it's functioning properly. Yes? Don't have time now to do more, but I'll try to carve out some time later tonight. The FIRST thing I'm going to want to learn is how to use SketchUp to create the base environment--hopefully using GPS location and elevation data--for my first BTB Evo project!

Learning how to create my own objects can wait for a while. I don't expect to use anything that isn't already in an xpack for a while, yet!
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Unread 30 May 17, 18:04   #22
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For Sketchup, you'll only need the 'Pro' version if you are a professional.
The Pro version also exports to some more formats, including 3DS.
3DS you can plop straight into an X-pack.

But you do not need that... The 'lesser' version of Sketchup exports to DAE-format.
And that imports into 3dSimEd too... from which you can export to 3ds--> X-pack.
As Sketchup usually produces 'double faces' you will need to kill those anyway, for which you need 3dSimEd.
Ask about that when you are making objects, it will be soon enough.

If it shows you an X/Y/Z axis view, it works OK. You'll be amazed how easy it is to design your own houses, pit-box, stands, add-signs...

Oh, and an important/useful thing: to be ROUND a circle needs at least 5 'sides' per 90 degrees. (like a pencil has 6 in 360 degrees).
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Unread 30 May 17, 22:13   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
I've installed SketchUp 6.0, but there are a couple of things I'd like to ask you about.

First, when I started the program from the desktop shortcut, a "SketchUp Pro Evaluation" box appeared, warning me that I have "480 minutes of application use left in the evaluation," and inviting me to buy a license that "unlocks LayOut, (and) 3d model exporters..." Do I really have "only" 480 minutes of this application before I would have to reinstall it or buy a license? And will I need LayOut or the 3d model exporters functions to use SketchUp the way I plan to use it, as a support tool for BTB Evo?
Sketchup 6.0 should be free. I never had this evaluation question....
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Unread 31 May 17, 14:47   #24
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He said "SketchUp Pro Evaluation"... that's why.
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Unread 31 May 17, 15:34   #25
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@Erwin: I simply downloaded and extracted what you provided through the mediafire link in post #6. Was this NOT the version you intended to provide? Am I going to be limited to 480 hours of use before I can't use this version of SketchUp any more? Or will I continue to have access, after those 480 hours, to the SketchUp functions I need? Are there "Pro" features I can use (but don't need) during my 480-hour evaluation period?
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Unread 31 May 17, 16:00   #26
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the license says: Google SketchUp Pro consists of functionality available in Google SketchUp (free version) as well as functionality available only in Google SketchUp Pro. The Google SketchUp Pro functionality is made available to you without charge on a trial basis for a limited time, as may be determined by Google from time to time in its sole discretion. To continue using the Pro functionality after the expiration of the trial period, you must pay the applicable license fee at http://sketchup.google.com/gsu6/buy.html, or other URL that Google may provide from time to time.
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Unread 31 May 17, 17:12   #27
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OK, thanks. I take that to mean that I'll be able to use the version you provided me for as long as I like, and that I don't need the Pro features.
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Unread 6 June 17, 14:46   #28
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Hi!

I've finally carved out a little time to start exploring SketchUp 6.0.

Clicking through the Learning Center tips, I came to the link to the SketchUp 3D Warehouse. Just for fun, I typed 'Caribbean houses' into the Search, and got 41 results! When I chose one, and clicked the Download button, I was presented with five options: SketchUp 2017 Model, ...2016, ...2015, ...2014, and Collada File.

Three questions:

1) Do ALL of the 3D Warehouse models have too many polygons to be used as trackside objects?

2) Is it possible (and, if possible, worth the effort) to reduce the number of polygons used in a highly-detailed 3D Warehouse model so that they are useful as trackside objects and not framerate killers?

3) If there are 3D Warehouse models that ARE useful for track scenery, which of the five download options would I use?

But here's another issue, of more pressing concern to me than whether or not it's practical to use 3D Warehouse models as trackside objects:

How, exactly, do I get real world terrain data into my SketchUp so that I can use it to create a base for a circuit in BTB?

I see in SketchUp, under Tools, Google Earth > Get Current View

Using Google Chrome, I already have Google Earth running and zoomed in on the terrain I want to use for my Basse-Terre, Guadaloupe circuit. But when I click on 'Get Current View', SketchUp tells me "You must have Google Earth running to use the snapshot capabilities." When I click on the link provided on the SketchUp Learning Center tip for 'SketchUp + Google Earth', it opens Google Earth in an Internet Explorer 11 browser window instead of "finding" the Chrome browser I already have open!

And HERE'S an irony for you: The Google Earth homepage opened in the IE 11 browser tells me: "Google Chrome is required to run the new Google Earth. Please try this link in Chrome." And a button is provided to "DOWNLOAD CHROME"

Now...

Should I close (and uninstall?) the Google Chrome browser I installed on my computer a few weeks ago, and download and reinstall Chrome through the Google Earth site that was opened in IE 11 when I used the SketchUp Learning Center link to Google Earth??? Is that the only way this version of SketchUp is going to "see" Google Earth and allow the "snapshot capabilties"?

Last edited by Wee Scot; 6 June 17 at 18:05.
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Unread 7 June 17, 21:50   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
Hi!

I've finally carved out a little time to start exploring SketchUp 6.0.

Clicking through the Learning Center tips, I came to the link to the SketchUp 3D Warehouse. Just for fun, I typed 'Caribbean houses' into the Search, and got 41 results! When I chose one, and clicked the Download button, I was presented with five options: SketchUp 2017 Model, ...2016, ...2015, ...2014, and Collada File.
You'll be able to import the collada file, other ones are too new for Sketchup6.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
1) Do ALL of the 3D Warehouse models have too many polygons to be used as trackside objects?
That depends (on what PC you run - and what the rest of the track takes up of the available powaaaa), but usually they do indeed have many polygons, as they are not made for gaming.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
2) Is it possible (and, if possible, worth the effort) to reduce the number of polygons used in a highly-detailed 3D Warehouse model so that they are useful as trackside objects and not framerate killers?
Might be. Reducing poly is an art. But you can gain 50% by deleting 'double faces': usually Sketchup makes poly-faces both inside and outside of a building. Using 3DsimEd you can delete the ones on the inside.

Also this: Depends on what you have and what you want. Remember it is not just polygons, there is also the textures. You could use shared textures with other objects, or UV-map them.
If a simple house uses 4 DDS textures, each (say) 0.25Mb... that makes 1Mb of texture, I have seldomly seen that much Mb used fotr an object in poly. A full car is usuallty only 5Mb (in poly). As such, mind that textures are as important as poly. This is also why DDS-textures are used, they have mip-maps (which is, smaller versions) included.

Have a look at some of the trackside objects I did. Using a dual-core 2.2Ghz and 0.5Mb GFX card these did not cause any trouble. Most are < 50kb in poly, and use one texture of 512x512 DDS (5 mipmaps), plus one 'generic' texture that is 64x64 pixels and is called 'Pizzaglass.TGA'. You guessed it... it is the glass. All cars et cetera use the same, so there is only ONE glass texture in a whole track.

http://www.nogripracing.com/gallery/...er.php?u=30603

AS for poly, you can make 'reduced detail' versions and set them as LODs. This is, when up close you see LOD0 (the most detail), from further away you see LOD1, et cetera. The last LOD would be, for a house, just a basic cube with a pointed roof. And you could even kill the backside as well. Use the same texture on all LODS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
3) If there are 3D Warehouse models that ARE useful for track scenery, which of the five download options would I use?
I'd use the collada file, it imports straight into 3DsimEd for viewing, and can thenm be exported to whatever you can import into Sketchup or X-packer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
But here's another issue, of more pressing concern to me than whether or not it's practical to use 3D Warehouse models as trackside objects:

How, exactly, do I get real world terrain data into my SketchUp so that I can use it to create a base for a circuit in BTB?
There's a few different methods for that, depending on what you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
I see in SketchUp, under Tools, Google Earth > Get Current View

Using Google Chrome, I already have Google Earth running and zoomed in on the terrain I want to use for my Basse-Terre, Guadaloupe circuit. But when I click on 'Get Current View', SketchUp tells me "You must have Google Earth running to use the snapshot capabilities." When I click on the link provided on the SketchUp Learning Center tip for 'SketchUp + Google Earth', it opens Google Earth in an Internet Explorer 11 browser window instead of "finding" the Chrome browser I already have open!
Your problem is probably different versions that do not intermingle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
And HERE'S an irony for you: The Google Earth homepage opened in the IE 11 browser tells me: "Google Chrome is required to run the new Google Earth. Please try this link in Chrome." And a button is provided to "DOWNLOAD CHROME"

Now...

Should I close (and uninstall?) the Google Chrome browser I installed on my computer a few weeks ago, and download and reinstall Chrome through the Google Earth site that was opened in IE 11 when I used the SketchUp Learning Center link to Google Earth??? Is that the only way this version of SketchUp is going to "see" Google Earth and allow the "snapshot capabilties"?
None of the above. There should be a thing called 'add location' under the "file" dropdown menu. It is what I use. No Google Earth necessary - though it is handy, you can use Earth to check out the area, and then grab the coordinates, and use the coordinates in Sketchup.



You get square pieces-of-land, each with its own piece of texture. You can add more pieces if you like, they will sort of 'auto-sort-and-stack-in-place'. Mind if you take ONE LARGE piece it will not be very detailed. If you get many smaller pieces, there will be more poly and more detail.

What I do then, is stitch all the pieces together so I get just one piece, also clipping off any unwanted poly, and reducing detail where not necessary. I then take that one-piece landscape and export it to DAE. Check out in 3DsimEd how it looks (remember to kill the unneeded double faces, you do not want to drive on the underside anyway). Export to 3DS format, and into X-packer. Done. Your landscape can now be put in BTB.

I do discard the original Sketchup/Google textures though, and then I get a detailed as possible 'landscape map' - and JUST THAT is what I use Google Earth for, to get that landscape map (aerial photo). Then I UV-map that piece of landscape to my self-concocted texture, using 3DSmax, but can be done in 3DsimEd as well.

Many more tips... I'd start by making a really simple track though, to get the 'feel' of it all.
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Unread 8 June 17, 11:39   #30
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Thanks for continuing this discussion! More later
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Unread 8 June 17, 18:45   #31
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Unfortunately, Google just took away my (and your?) ability to use SketchUp 6 to get terrain data through Google Earth:

https://help.sketchup.com/en/geodatachange

I don't have "Add Location" under File, at least not anymore!

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Unread 9 June 17, 14:27   #32
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AAAwhhhh crap? I dunno what to do about that.

Looks like another way to import terrain must be found.
As I expected would happen sooner or later, they have found a way to charge money.
Well... money, or Pirate Bitcoin Kudoos (or something) must be spent, then.
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Unread 9 June 17, 15:07   #33
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What about LIDAR data available through the US Geological Survey site? I just registered and am at the point of "exporting" data, and the question is: KMZ or CSV?

Bob's Track Builder Evo appears to have the function (File > Import (Import GPS)) to import terrain data, and CSV is one of the two options, the other being KML from Google Earth.

EDIT: I just received--by email--links to download the "metadata export files" I requested from the US Geological Survey EarthExplorer site. Next (maybe not until tomorrow...) I'll see if I can figure out how to format this LIDAR CSV data so that BTB Evo can use it to generate terrain!

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Unread 9 June 17, 16:10   #34
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Don't think you can import a lidar point cloud into BTB Evo. I could be wrong, but thought that capability is only in BTB Pro.

BTB Evo's KML/CSV import is for paths, not terrain data.

Regarding grabbing Google Earth terrain, you should be able to File, Geo Location, Add Location from the latest version of SketchUp and finally save it as an older version? I see Add Location isn't working in SketchUp 2014 now, either...
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Unread 9 June 17, 16:39   #35
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Emery, thanks for joining this conversation!

"BTB Evo's KML/CSV import is for paths, not terrain data."

That makes sense, since the example provided in Evo is for the Mid-Ohio track path, not the whole area.

Then, how do I use the USGS data to define the path for my Joplin Road (Quantico, Virginia) point-to-point track? The BTB Evo File > Import function (and examples in the GPS folder) both clearly point to using full LongLatHeight data. If I can just use USGS data to get the path and elevation changes right, I can add the surrounding terrain by hand. There aren't any mountains or other dramatic terrain features in the area.
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Unread 10 June 17, 16:44   #36
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Well... that's the age-old problem with BTB and BTB Evo before lidar data. Options:

1) Create the flat KML via Google Earth, using as few points as possible. Add height data manually in Notepad or Excel or something, by reading off the terrain height (meters) in Google Earth. Moderately accurate. Import the KML with height data.

2) Use Routebuilder or http://www.nearby.org.uk/elevation-kml.php to fill in the KML heights. This is not terribly accurate, but will get you in the ballpark to hand-tweak.

3) SketchUp capture of Google Earth terrain and import as BTB object (yeah, I know how that's not working today, see https://help.sketchup.com/en/geodatachange).

4) Use lidar in BTB Pro to create track & terrain. Transfer project to BTB Evo for finishing.

5) The long way that I haven't yet tried... use lidar converted to polygons in CloudCompare (or similar tool), convert to 3DS via Blender & 3DSimEd, import as BTB object. Here's one tutorial aimed at Assetto Corsa that should give you some hints if you go this route: http://assettocorsamods.net/threads/...-tutorial.422/
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Unread 10 June 17, 20:58   #37
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Thanks, but you didn't directly address my question: Is it possible to select a series of LongLatHeight points that define the path of the Joplin Road track I want to create, and then use the LiDAR data for those points to automatically build a data set (like the one in the Mid Ohio course example) BTB Evo can use to generate a track mesh that is LongLatHeight accurate?

But I think the answer is no. I could use your Option 1, which is essentially what I did 10 years ago. I still have both the patience and the steady hand for that, but I was hoping for a MUCH better automated process.

Right now, though, I'm leaning toward your Option 4. I still have two licenses available for Pro, and I'd really like to experience the terrain building capabilities Brendon developed to their full potential.

Now, what I need before I do that is ASSURANCE that I can "transfer project to BTB Evo for finishing", and specifically, how FAR I can go in track/terrain development in Pro before it would no longer simply "transfer" to Evo, but instead would require a lot of file name changes or other annoyances to be usable in Evo. Do I need to transfer the project at the point of a LongLatHeight-generated track and terrain mesh? Or can I apply materials and textures and insert objects in Pro and still simply transfer the resulting project into Evo?
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Unread 10 June 17, 21:12   #38
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Too bad it doesn't work anymore.

I had plans to re-make some of my favourite tracks, like Cadwell Park,
but alas, I'll now have to find 'somebody that owns Sketchup Pro' (harhar).
Or... uhhhm... find someother way.... uhhhh...

Looked like somebody was already doing Cadwell but haven't heard a thing in 2 years.

Actually I think I'm not good enough yet to try real life tracks.
Which is why I usually make 'fantasy tracks'. OK 'fatnasty' might be more like it.

Note: you could also try 'racetrack builder', Piddys latest.

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Unread 10 June 17, 23:02   #39
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Yes, I'm aware of RTB, but there's a LOT more enjoyment to be had for me from GTR2 (and rFactor) before I'll invest in any more games (and the hardware I'd need to do them justice).

Now I'm amped to download v1.0.0.1 of BTB Pro and build my basic layouts with that, then transfer them to BTB Evo for GTR2 "finishing," as well as pushing the basic layouts to completion in BTB Pro for rFactor! I've got a lot else going on ATM, but I'm hoping to at least be happy with those basic layouts for the 10(!) projects I have planned going into the colder months, when I'll have more time to sit indoors and fiddle with the wonderful details!
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Unread 11 June 17, 19:45   #40
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atm i would not recommend RTB. i don't consider it an fully working program. Got it for some 2 years, but i can't put my self to put any energy in that program anymore.
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Unread 12 June 17, 04:51   #41
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@Erwin greven: How far can I go in developing a track with BTB Pro before it will no longer transfer to BTB Evo for "completion" for use in GTR2?
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Unread 12 June 17, 13:37   #42
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It does not support blending. Further i can't think of anything. I do the same in the opposite way.
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Unread 12 June 17, 15:26   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwin greven View Post
It does not support blending. Further i can't think of anything. I do the same in the opposite way.
Ditto. You can do whatever you want in either program, and then open the 'Project' with the other program.
It will even keep the texture blending if you switch between programs, provided you do not touch it.
However - only Pro can export it (to rF1) as GTRL/GTR2 do not use it.
Evo cannot export it, and does not show it either.

Note that you do need to fix/set the emergency pacecar/rolling start pacecar positions for the game that you export to.
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Unread 12 June 17, 16:05   #44
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So I could perform blending of my terrain in Pro, and the project would still open in Evo and export to GTR2, only without the effects of my blending work in Pro? Still no "incompatibility"? That's GREAT! Just to be sure...

I can use LiDAR data in Pro to accurately model the real-world terrain around my circuit, and then open that in Evo and fill in all the polygons with materials and textures that are "recognized" in GTR2? Can I also reduce or increase the density of polygons in my surrounding elevation-accurate terrain in Evo after transferring it from Pro?
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Unread 12 June 17, 16:32   #45
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An idea would be to have pre-created textures in which two textures are blended. That is possible. Those you can import into btb. For instance tarmac to grass or dirt.
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Unread 12 June 17, 17:09   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwin greven View Post
An idea would be to have pre-created textures in which two textures are blended. That is possible. Those you can import into btb. For instance tarmac to grass or dirt.
Yes, thank you, I understood that is possible from an earlier helpful post. Can you also confirm or clarify my understanding of how I will be able to increase or reduce the density of terrain polygons in BTB Evo AFTER creating a project in BTB Pro and then transferring it to BTB Evo?

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Unread 12 June 17, 17:26   #47
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Not quite understand what you mean.
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Unread 12 June 17, 19:46   #48
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Some of the tutorials demonstrate how you can increase the number of polygons near the track to smooth out the terrain features, and decrease the number of polygons (make them larger) farther away where they won't be seen. Will I be able to make such changes to the mesh after transfer from BTB Pro to BTB Evo?
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Unread 15 June 17, 08:03   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Scot View Post
Some of the tutorials demonstrate how you can increase the number of polygons near the track to smooth out the terrain features, and decrease the number of polygons (make them larger) farther away where they won't be seen. Will I be able to make such changes to the mesh after transfer from BTB Pro to BTB Evo?
Yes you will. Anything that was made in Pro, can be re-openend in Evo.
AND then you can just go on. WHATEVER you did in PRO can be handled and done in EVO, except EVO doens't have the 'mix texture' option so it just ignores it.

But I detect a problem here though. Terrain is only terrain when you make it in BTB.
Imported stuff is considered 'objects'. You cannot fix meshes from objects.
You can scale, move and rotate the WHOLE object, and change the textures, but that's it.

This means when you import terrain in BTB, it is NOT possible to fix/change/move the mesh of that terrain, as it will be an object. That was the main thing of RTB, to be able to change the mesh, recolor it, et cetera on the imported terrain as well.

Now, I do not know how BTB imports LIDAR. If it makes it 'BTB terrain' then you can do the things you want. If it imports it as an 'object', then unfortunately, it is 'set in stone'.
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Unread 15 June 17, 14:31   #50
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Terrain via LIDAR in BTB Pro is BTB terrain. The road is road, too, but... well, it is a bit more complicated.

I'll try to explain:

You basically make a mesh of terrain & road, like you would for any BTB project, except you don't worry about the height. Just make it all level, don't bother with trying to make hills. Likely you are doing this over the point cloud that is also classified as ground & road.

When the mesh is where you want it, then you click on a button called "Set Terrain Height" which snaps your mesh to the point cloud. The road will likely still be down in a canyon or up on a ridge because it hasn't snapped to the point cloud. For that, there's another button called "Calculate Road". Click it and now your terrain and road heights are both done! [Well, except for a bunch of nuances that aren't important at this time.]

You save the project and re-open it. That's where you discover a little "feature"... the terrain is still snapped to the point cloud, but the road isn't. You have to click on "Calculate Road" again. Obviously the road is not treated the same as the terrain and the height isn't retained during a save.

So what do you do? For myself, nothing, as I just export to rFactor after clicking "Calculate Road" and am done. For moving the project to BTB Evo? I'm guessing you need to manually move the road nodes to the correct height before saving the project. I've tried that because I get tired of those really deep canyons and don't like having to click "Calculate Road" every time, but I don't have BTB Evo to test if the saved projects can be re-opened in Evo.
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