Weird differences between 'old' cars and 'new' cars 2006

[pitradio]

So I tried just some things in the 2006 season on Monza junior with stock setup..

Seat Toledo Cupra - 58.275
Seat Leon 2006 - 58.609

Alfa Romeo (Farfus) - 58.125
Alfa Romeo GTA (unknown driver) - 57.625 (!!!)

BMW e90 - 58.652
BMW e46 - 58.540

As you can see the 'older' cars are all faster

Especially the Alfa GTA is very interesting.

I know the Toledo has very bad slow corner speed. But still very impressive how these older cars beat the newer ones..

Do others experience the same?

[darock]

Look in the Hotlaps lists.

There aren't any times listed at any track that show an older car being faster than a newer one. Of course, most drivers don't usually drive the older cars, but if they actually were faster, they would.

[pitradio]

Originally Posted by darock

Look in the Hotlaps lists.

There aren't any times listed at any track that show an older car being faster than a newer one. Of course, most drivers don't usually drive the older cars, but if they actually were faster, they would.

Wouldn't it be a downforce issue? Like I already said, the Toledo is very bad in slow corners like at Magny Course. Maybe the Alfa has the same thing.

Same thing happens in F1, remember the ultra fast Orange Arrows in 2001 or so at Monza, but it lacked downforce for 'normal' tracks.

But it could also be that people never drive the older cars because they THINK it's slower and therefor never tested it.

[darock]

A downforce issue? If it is, who is being helped? Your findings suggest the older are slower. The Hotlaps suggest the opposite.

It's pretty easy to answer that question. Look in the tire files and see what traction numbers for different years are for the same car, and look at the car's files to see what it's aero numbers are. It might surprise you.

[pitradio]

Originally Posted by darock

A downforce issue? If it is, who is being helped? Your findings suggest the older are slower. The Hotlaps suggest the opposite.

It's pretty easy to answer that question. Look in the tire files and see what traction numbers for different years are for the same car, and look at the car's files to see what it's aero numbers are. It might surprise you.

I tried to encrypt them with wtcced but no success until now. Put the Gamedata in wtcced folder. 'find' and than wtcced-all. But no success

And my findings suggest the newer are slower, not the older ones.

[darock]

Typo... actually, my fingers typed it backwards.........

Yes, your findings suggest the newer are slower. The Hotlaps don't and include laps for both. It's a safe assumption that the slower times from the older cars were done by drivers who did not believe they were driving slower cars.

[darock]

Originally Posted by pitradio

I tried to encrypt them with wtcced but no success until now. Put the Gamedata in wtcced folder. 'find' and than wtcced-all. But no success

OK, I'll do that work. Or some of it.

If you look through the WTCC_2006 folder at all the files, you'll find only two tyre files in the entire thing. One is for FWD cars. The other is for RWD cars. The same is true for the WTCC_2007 folder.

If you compare the differences between the 2006 and the 2007 FWD tyr files, you'll see two files that look almost identical. Look closely and you'll see what appears to be copy/paste files where one was created from the other. Even the documentation notation on the lines is identical. However, there are 3 lines where there is a very slight difference in the longitudinal numbers for the front tyres.

The 2007 front tyres have a 1.5% greater longitudinal grip than the 2006 fronts. There is an equally small difference in slip range where the former has an effect.

If there was an advantage, it'd be to the 2007 benefit.

[Phantom Mark]

One thing you must remember is that Race06 and Race07 intially came with realistic car related performance, relative to the season they ran in, however the whole content has now been patched with performance balanced cars so you can race anything in theory and win, rightly or wrongly.

[pitradio]

Originally Posted by Phantom Mark

One thing you must remember is that Race06 and Race07 intially came with realistic car related performance, relative to the season they ran in, however the whole content has now been patched with performance balanced cars so you can race anything in theory and win, rightly or wrongly.

Hmm.. Don't know if I should be happy about that.. Good thing is more mixed grids online. Bad thing is an offline championship that's not representative anymore.

[Phantom Mark]

I agree, both scenarios have their virtues.