Are Simbin turning into codemasters??

swannyUK · 10 September 07, 18:47

I have been a loyal Simbin supporter for a while now. I have GTR, GTR2 and GT Legends. When i purchased the first RACE it was ok. I preferred the graphics on GTR2 but as I watch the WTCC I still played it.

After the last patch the handling of the cars has turned to crap. I have fiddled with every FFB setting and there is still no where near as much *feel* as GTR2 / GTL and RACE before the patch.
(NOTE - I'M TALKING ABOUT FFB HERE NOT HOW THE CARS BEHAVE)

I hoped that they would have sorted this for RACE07 but going by the demo I will not be going anywhere near the game when it comes out.

I have messed with every setting imaginable to get the FFB to talk to me when i'm locking up etc. RACE is terrible when driving the front wheel drive cars and is still terrible on this demo. Front wheel drive cars such as the mini on GTL are fine. You can feel when you are starting to understeer etc.

The championship i was doing with some mates on RACE has ended early due to the front wheel drive guys not wanting to play anymore as it is "boring and has no feel at all"

I think simbin are doing what codemasters are doing. Concentrating on the majority of people I.E - Arcade who want lots of choice and graphics over realistic feel

~~Fool_1njection~~ · 10 September 07, 18:53

That's what I've been telling all of you, but do you listen, no!!!:p

I dont trust race 07, if it aint modable then it's crap to me, and I hated the Race WTCC 06 demo as I hated the GFX and the handling

.

I'll wait for GTR3 before I buy a SimBin game again, Race is made by a different group of SimBiners than the GTR guys I think!!!

Thunder-Ice · 10 September 07, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by swannyUK

I think simbin are doing what codemasters are doing. Concentrating on the majority of people I.E - Arcade who want lots of choice and graphics over realistic feel

I am totaly agree with what you say, I bought WTCC I hardly played with so much disappointment was tall and there is very little chance that I buy version 07 considering the demo of this week end when I see that even in version pro the cars are insipid.

David Wright · 10 September 07, 19:26

I disagree. IMO RACE and RACE 07 are just as serious simulations as GTL and GTR2. Have you driven Race Driver 3? RACE is NOTHING like it.

This accusation comes out with every new Simbin release. People said it when GTL came out and people said it again when GTR2 came out. No doubt they will say it again when GTR3 comes out.

Simbin are the only company who are producing simulations of real racing series. Its a shame its so fashionable in the simracing community to bash developers. If I were Simbin I'd abandon the simracing community and make some real money doing something else.

~~Fool_1njection~~ · 10 September 07, 19:30

I only bash the Race series 06 & 07, I think it's a bunch of noobs building them compared to the guys on GTR1,2 and probanly 3!!! The graphics on Race 06 was so weird and unreal to me, almost cartoony!!!

Sure, SimBin are the only developer with real simulations and for that I'm gratefull, not like Codemasters with the Childish Toca RD 2&3!!!

JMSpeed · 10 September 07, 19:32

I noticed no change in physics with the update. The cars feel on the edge at all times ...especially with the BMW. I don't know how many times I have to really modulate throttle on a lot of areas without bringing the tail around. The same goes for braking. Even though I know the correct amount of pressure to apply to not lock the brakes, when I miss my braking zone ...see ya front splittah!

The game really doesn't feel like it is lacking realism. Perhaps the F3000 does, but I say that because they car is probably easier to drive in real life with so much downforce. Therefore, it would be that way in the game too.

ccuebas_19 · 10 September 07, 19:35

If GTR3 is the same as the RACE games I think it means the end of SIMBIN... I hadn't thought about how important it is to have a moddable game, not ONE single sim I own untouched... I have so much crap on F1C you wouldn't believe it, and I love it! I have a clean install of every game just in case... but I will confess, I erased the first RACE game I bought and it's lying around somewhere, and the RACE 07 demo, downloaded it yesterday... erased it right after... this is really worrying... I think GTR3 should have the same ISI engine as rFactor, it should look and sound like rFactor, but with GTR2 physics, and obviously: new cars, and completely MODDABLE!

Cheers

PS: Almost forgot, NO F***ING STEAM!!

~~Fool_1njection~~ · 10 September 07, 19:43

GTR2 and rF have very similar engines anyway I think, GTR2 has better GFX too?!?!?

I'm sure gtr3 will also be modable like gtr2, race = toilet -

David Wright · 10 September 07, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccuebas_19

I think GTR3 should have the same ISI engine as rFactor, it should look and sound like rFactor, but with GTR2 physics,

That would be a backward step IMO. GTR2 sounds and looks better than rFactor and I'm sure GTR3 will have a next gen graphics engine.

~~Fool_1njection~~ · 10 September 07, 19:48

Thank you!!!

swannyUK · 10 September 07, 19:50

David Wright - I disagree. IMO RACE and RACE 07 are just as serious simulations as GTL and GTR2.Have you driven Race Driver 3? RACE is NOTHING like it.

Yes. I played Race driver 3 with a wheel and soon realised that it was a control pad that was needed. I then gave up with it about an hour later as you could go around hairpin corners at silly speed.

I am not comparing the handling of RACE and RACE07 with Codemasters games. I am saying that since the big patch for RACE the handling and FFB isnt as good as the older titles. The reference to codemasters was about what the game offers. Simbin look as if they are now churning out games that are more towards people who want 10,0000000 different cars and tracks to play with and just jump straight in.

Grab the WTCC mod that was converted from RACE for GTR2. Then get the UK Tour WIP and have a play for an hour with the AI on difficult.

You will soon see that even a conversion from the *old* RACE to GTR2 is much better than what simbin are offering ATM with RACE07

The AI are a tad better on this demo i will give it that but i hopped straight back on the UK Tour mod and was watching my mirrors all through the race.

ccuebas_19 · 10 September 07, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Wright

That would be a backward step IMO. GTR2 sounds and looks better than rFactor and I'm sure GTR3 will have a next gen graphics engine.

Either that's our own difference in opinion, or it's just my system... which is not all that bad considering it's a laptop...

[Centrino Duo @1.6, 2GB RAM, 120GB HDD, nVIDIA GeForce Go 7400 128MB]

IMO rFactor looks better, GTR2 handles way better...

Next gen graphics and FIA GT????.... my girlfriend will get depression

~~gazman~~ · 10 September 07, 20:43

WTCC RACE + RACE07 same game. it's a good way to get $160 for a racing game.

Kyril · 10 September 07, 21:15

RACE is an awesome game, RACE 07 promises to be even better, and judging by the demo, it will. My dollars are already tagged for purchase as soon as it's released.
You don't care for the slower touring cars ...oh well, not your cup of tea. Don't buy the game and quite your damn bitching!

Sidewinder16 · 10 September 07, 21:24

A bit of a serious question for those of you complaining about the handling of the cars in the RACE 07 demo.

How many of you have driven these race cars in real life and know how they should handle around a particular race track?

I like the RACE 07 demo and found both the F3000 and the WTCC cars a bit of a handful to drive at times. Good fun to race with too.

swannyUK · 10 September 07, 21:51

Ok,

i did right a huge post about how the cars handle etc in response to sidewinder's question but then realised there was no point as he already knows the answer

TBH i think the race07 demo is ok. I like some of the new touches that simbin has made. The action cam is good for replay use and the sound is alot better.

My beef is with the FFB. I'm not really that bothered that the game has so many cars and tracks. It bothers me that the FFB feels way different from the orginal race before the big patch and this demo. I got alot more *feeling* from the first RACE, GTL etc etc. After simbin realeased the first RACE did the WTCC teams go "by the way the FFB is actually wrong"?

Kyril - You don't care for the slower touring cars ...oh well, not your cup of tea. Don't buy the game and quite your damn bitching!

I hope this isn’t towards me.. Would be stupid if it was seeing as though I have jason plato in my display pic.....

PhilH959 · 10 September 07, 21:54

I agree with Sidewinder and David. Race07 has the BEST FFB of any race sim ever. The closeness of the cars, BMW and SEAT makes for some very good side by side racing. I am sure those of the F550 regime will find this just too slow. I also, like Kyril, have robbed my piggybank for what promises to be THE next racing sim. I am an old Nascar fanatic, and have just joined the ranks of GTR2 fans worldwide since Christmas 2006, and I for one am extremely happy with all that has transpired to date. I think that Race07, will be just as entertaining as GTR2. I find myself wanting to play it more and more ever day. And thanks to Simbin for a VERY cool demo!

Phil

monk headhunter · 10 September 07, 23:11

Race is soooo Toca based game by Codemasters.. stupid and simple with boring cars, simplified physics, none sense of speed and power, and so on...

And guess what.. For those of you who still haven`t install race 07 beta.. don`t!!!
For the love of god don`t do it!!!
Everithing about `new engine, diffferent expirience...` was bullcrap!
it is the same fu**in` game with diffferent main menus and some more cars...

The reason for staying on PC platform has stoped to excist! Now only GT 5 on PS3 will remain as he always have been... the king of simulations.

Kyril · 10 September 07, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by swannyUK

Kyril - You don't care for the slower touring cars ...oh well, not your cup of tea. Don't buy the game and quite your damn bitching!

I hope this isn’t towards me.. Would be stupid if it was seeing as though I have jason plato in my display pic.....

Not at all

swannyUK · 10 September 07, 23:28

BTW i was testing out the AI (yes, i know its a demo) but they are still doing that silly thing where the lights go off, you go 100yards and they start braking and hitting each other like complete retards. I recall them doing this on RACE alot of the time.

Also not really making any effort to go past unless you go and park somewhere

JMSpeed · 10 September 07, 23:32

I can't imagine the update causing this much commotion. Everything was fine until it happened ...then many of you began complaining. I honestly felt no change in the update :confused:

Certainly, judgment should be withheld until the retail game is released in case there are some strange demo behaviors going on.

swannyUK · 10 September 07, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMSpeed

I can't imagine the update causing this much commotion. Everything was fine until it happened ...then many of you began complaining. I honestly felt no change in the update :confused:

Certainly, judgment should be withheld until the retail game is released in case there are some strange demo behaviors going on.

It has effected friends i have that race front wheel drive cars more. All of them say it doesnt feel right anymore :S

I'm with you on the judgment until the game is released but i don't want to buy the game when it is released only to find that the same things in RACE that bugged me are in the new one because one of them (The AI, refer to my above post) is already on the demo :confused:

I'm hoping they just whacked basic AI on this demo. It's exactly the same AI as RACE so far as i can tell. It really confuses me that the same people that made gtr2 with AI that come at you if you arent on racing line (UK Tour Mod + WTCC MOD) can't get them to do the same on this. Maybe its to do with the engine or something *not a moan just something i have observerd*

PhilH959 · 10 September 07, 23:49

I dont think you and I have the same demo....the AI is blistering fast and not behaving like AI at all....the come up behind me and blink thier lights and aggresively maneuver around me without taking me out. I too noticed no difference after the update. Didi you use the default settings for the AI? Try 100%....I really think this demo is spot on all the way around, and can only hope the final will be as good or better.

Phil

swannyUK · 10 September 07, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilH959

I dont think you and I have the same demo....the AI is blistering fast and not behaving like AI at all....the come up behind me and blink thier lights and aggresively maneuver around me without taking me out. I too noticed no difference after the update. Didi you use the default settings for the AI? Try 100%....I really think this demo is spot on all the way around, and can only hope the final will be as good or better.

Phil

Yeh. AI are on 100% They do flash headlights etc but for them to pass me i have to go offline alot and give them room. I even tried 100% +
It's odd. Maybe i just prefer the AI on aggressive on the WTCC mod for gtr2. If i put 2 wheels on the grass i go back about 3 spots. Do it on Race or this demo and don't get passed :S

http://www.aran-w.com/crossy/AI.jpg

Here is a clip from Thruxton. I was sweating after this race. Pants quality for easy download

http://www.aran-w.com/crossy/GTR2.wmv

ccuebas_19 · 11 September 07, 00:09

I agree with PhilH959, the AI has ridiculously improved... I have one of the buttons on my MOMO with the rear view, and almost everytime I see it, there's this damn dude flipping his headlights at me, it's pretty cool!!!

But like I said, physics suck... Have I ever driven these cars?? Mmmm...
... have YOU ever driven the GTR2/GTL cars?? Yet, they still feel real huh??

... think before you post....

The other main things are it not being moddable, steam, the cartoony look to it... and I'm sure others will find other things that are wrong with it... I for one absolutely LOVE the pit limiter... it's BY FAR the most realistic I've seen, would be a joy to have in GTR2... the models are splendid as well...

Dunno, will see what happens... I'll probably end up buying it...

Kneegrow · 11 September 07, 00:35

I have to ditto everything Phil has said. The new FF feel is incredible. You feel everything now as compared to GTR2. Graphics wise, may be a tad better then GTR2 but not by much though.

swannyUK · 11 September 07, 00:36

It was the starts that peed me off more than anything on RACE. Biggest pain / gain depending on how you look at it was the run up to druids at brands. First lap they all would single file it on the racing line and you just shot up and gained 3rd place from the back of a 20 car grid. They just dont flow very well for me. i.e - braking on straights and out of corners

I've read that AI is a pain in the arse so i will let them off

Still probably wont buy this tho as it's not very different from RACE and i've just got into modding so i want something a bit mor mod friendly

As for FF me and my mates must not be HUMAN....
I've got the Saitek r440 wheel with everything in the RACE FF control panel maxed out. If i go and play GTR, GTR2, GTL i can feel everything and know what the car is doing. With race it's just boring and has no where near as much:S

Kneegrow · 11 September 07, 00:38

I noticed the ULA mentioned Custom skins and tracks. Does this suggest a possible track editor coming with this game?

Gutshot · 11 September 07, 00:39

Well, some good folks think Race 07 demo is crap. I am not one of them!

I thought that was a lot of venom to dispense on a $29.99 sim.

I was wrong though. I just pre-ordered Race 07 from Ebgames online for $22.98 delivered.

If you don't like Race 07 or Steam, you can spend your $22.98 on something else and be happy.

swannyUK · 11 September 07, 00:52

I guess i will never really be happy until someone brings out a good BTCC sim. If you live in the UK and follow the BTCC then you will know why it should be looked into.

"Best tin top racing series in the world"

JMSpeed · 11 September 07, 00:58

Yeah, over GTR2 ...the pit limiter, rain effects and FFB have drastically or noticeably improved. I haven't really experienced the AI that much, so nothing to say on that.

Swanny, how did you get the mid-day sun effects to look so good in that clip?

swannyUK · 11 September 07, 01:32

no idea there to be honest. Just got the graphics maxed out

JMSpeed · 11 September 07, 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by swannyUK

no idea there to be honest. Just got the graphics maxed out

Alrighty ...mine are too on a 8800GTX ...but those seem more real than I have experienced :confused:

Sidewinder16 · 11 September 07, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccuebas_19

But like I said, physics suck... Have I ever driven these cars?? Mmmm...
... have YOU ever driven the GTR2/GTL cars?? Yet, they still feel real huh??

... think before you post....

If you reread my post I think you will find that I never implied that the GTR2/GTL cars felt real to me. I haven't driven one of those either so I am in no position to say if its real or not

geeman · 11 September 07, 09:32

I think we've all forgotten the true, the one, the ONLY racing simulation! Formula One Grand Prix for the PC back in 1991/1992!!!

I will want to see how Race07 plays for single seaters. I wanna formula ford championship instead of the turd that Toca made. Starting from 7th, and you had to win to continue the game. Load of bollocks that!

11 September 07, 09:54

this thread,its topic and arguments are totally pointless did you people not read this befor ou downloaded..

This is the official demo of RACE 07 - The WTCC game and does not necessarily reflect the quality of the final product....

so please wait till the game is released before you start posting crap

Sidewinder16 · 11 September 07, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_Beam

this thread,its topic and arguments are totally pointless did you people not read this befor ou downloaded..

This is the official demo of RACE 07 - The WTCC game and does not necessarily reflect the quality of the final product....

so please wait till the game is released before you start posting crap

Yes we all read that but that does not mean we should not express our opinions on what is right or wrong with the demo. After all the developers may (long shot i know) pick up on some of this feedback to make the game better.

~~lowndes888~~ · 11 September 07, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by geeman

I think we've all forgotten the true, the one, the ONLY racing simulation! Formula One Grand Prix for the PC back in 1991/1992!!!

I will want to see how Race07 plays for single seaters. I wanna formula ford championship instead of the turd that Toca made. Starting from 7th, and you had to win to continue the game. Load of bollocks that!

Which reminds me....

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/sh...394#post145394

swannyUK · 11 September 07, 12:15

SUCCESS!!!!!! I no longer have any problems with FFB. Thats one thing sorted

Deleted the FFB settings in the PLR file for RACE and put the ones from GTR2 in there and it feels alot better

Here are my FFB settings. Copy your .plr file to desktop as a backup then replace the ffb settings with these

http://www.aran-w.com/crossy/ffb.txt

see what you think

PhilH959 · 11 September 07, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gutshot

Well, some good folks think Race 07 demo is crap. I am not one of them!

I thought that was a lot of venom to dispense on a $29.99 sim.

I was wrong though. I just pre-ordered Race 07 from Ebgames online for $22.98 delivered.

If you don't like Race 07 or Steam, you can spend your $22.98 on something else and be happy.

Great!...I had heard it was coming down to 19.99....so I too shall order up. We, at NAGP, are going to run a Race07 league right out of the gate anyhow, so I'd better hurry up and get one, so I can start working on the game and be up front for the races! TBH, I have done quite a few online races at Brands and have had a ton of fun on an OPEN SERVER

That bodes very well for league raceing!

@SwannyUK....my wheel goes absolutely APE just sitting in the garage. I use a ten year old MS Sidewinder FFB and to date it is the MOST FFB I've ever felt in a game!

Phil

swannyUK · 11 September 07, 13:02

yeh that annoyed the hell out of me. If that did that in a real race car you would get white finger! It's not the rumble that bothered me. If i went in a frontwheel drive car like the leon and went around a corner full throttle there would be no deviation (excuse spelling) in the force. It would be the same amount of strength. With the gtr2 ffb on i know when the front wheels are slipping because the wheel goes a tad slack

analogkid66 · 11 September 07, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by swannyUK

I guess i will never really be happy until someone brings out a good BTCC sim. If you live in the UK and follow the BTCC then you will know why it should be looked into.

"Best tin top racing series in the world"

Yeh i agree!, we were spoiled abit with the TOCA series all those years ago, and i loved the first two Toca sims, but they went down hill after that!

Give this Sim time, im sure some good car modders will have a go at the best Touring car series out there!

cheers, analog.

swannyUK · 11 September 07, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by analogkid66

Yeh i agree!, we were spoiled abit with the TOCA series all those years ago, and i loved the first two Toca sims, but they went down hill after that!

Give this Sim time, im sure some good car modders will have a go at the best Touring car series out there!

cheers, analog.

Indeed. The UK Tour mod for GTR2 is based on the 2007 Bee Tea Sea See season (very odd copyright stuff going on for this one but still)

I'm part of the team skinning the cars etc. It's really good so far

As for the comments on how the AI are brilliant take a look at this lol. This is exactly the sort of AI i was moaning about on the original race. Lets hope its just basic AI for the demo

http://www.aran-w.com/crossy/AI.wmv

PhilH959 · 11 September 07, 16:13

Hmmm...defianately not the AI that's in my demo. I can see why you have your low opinion of them. In my game, It is all I can do to keep up with them. And they dont get all stupid like that vid. Another of our regulars felt the same way as you after that bad/weird update. But he tried it again last night and got his butt kicked by the AI. And Ezza's no racing slouch! He said they were putting the bumper to him and flat spun him out as they were braking later than he! I wouldn't worry to much about this update glitch and or the demo. I feel that it has shown me enough good stuff/promise, that I will surely buy it. Hopefully your AI will get off to school straight away, because that was just awful!

Phil

~~audir8fan~~ · 11 September 07, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by analogkid66

Yeh i agree!, we were spoiled abit with the TOCA series all those years ago, and i loved the first two Toca sims, but they went down hill after that!

Give this Sim time, im sure some good car modders will have a go at the best Touring car series out there!

cheers, analog.

There already is a TOCA mod in progress (for GTR2): http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/sh...=13008&page=31

swannyUK · 11 September 07, 18:07

yup. It's probably because i play the TOCA mod for gtr2 that audir8fan is talking about. The AI on that are top notch

analogkid66 · 11 September 07, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by audir8fan

There already is a TOCA mod in progress (for GTR2): http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/sh...=13008&page=31

Lovely!!!!...thats what i get for building tracks and not keeping up with whats out there already!

Ill take a good look at this later this week!

cheers, analog.

swannyUK · 11 September 07, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by analogkid66

Lovely!!!!...thats what i get for building tracks and not keeping up with whats out there already!

Ill take a good look at this later this week!

cheers, analog.

yeh deffo! its ace

5 October 07, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by monk headhunter

Now only GT 5 on PS3 will remain as he always have been... the king of simulations.

Aye up, PS3 fanboy alert.... :p

hadoq · 6 October 07, 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by monk headhunter

Race is soooo Toca based game by Codemasters.. stupid and simple with boring cars, simplified physics, none sense of speed and power, and so on...

And guess what.. For those of you who still haven`t install race 07 beta.. don`t!!!
For the love of god don`t do it!!!
Everithing about `new engine, diffferent expirience...` was bullcrap!
it is the same fu**in` game with diffferent main menus and some more cars...

The reason for staying on PC platform has stoped to excist! Now only GT 5 on PS3 will remain as he always have been... the king of simulations.

thanx for the good laugh ! GT series are that much a sim that you can beat the nurburgring hotlap record of all times by 3 or 4 minutes in it ^^

race 07 is ok for me, considering those cars only reach 200+ km/h (130+MPH). I still prefer rFactor for diversity of course, but race07 feels allright.

GT5/PS3 :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
for the price of this with a G25 and a decent seat, you can almost buy a simconmotion from frex, you know that ? thanx for the laugh tho

10 September 07, 18:47	#1
swannyUK Join Date: Mar 2007	Are Simbin turning into codemasters?? I have been a loyal Simbin supporter for a while now. I have GTR, GTR2 and GT Legends. When i purchased the first RACE it was ok. I preferred the graphics on GTR2 but as I watch the WTCC I still played it. After the last patch the handling of the cars has turned to crap. I have fiddled with every FFB setting and there is still no where near as much feel as GTR2 / GTL and RACE before the patch. (NOTE - I'M TALKING ABOUT FFB HERE NOT HOW THE CARS BEHAVE) I hoped that they would have sorted this for RACE07 but going by the demo I will not be going anywhere near the game when it comes out. I have messed with every setting imaginable to get the FFB to talk to me when i'm locking up etc. RACE is terrible when driving the front wheel drive cars and is still terrible on this demo. Front wheel drive cars such as the mini on GTL are fine. You can feel when you are starting to understeer etc. The championship i was doing with some mates on RACE has ended early due to the front wheel drive guys not wanting to play anymore as it is "boring and has no feel at all" I think simbin are doing what codemasters are doing. Concentrating on the majority of people I.E - Arcade who want lots of choice and graphics over realistic feel Last edited by swannyUK; 10 September 07 at 21:55.

10 September 07, 18:53	#2
~~Fool_1njection~~ Banned Join Date: Dec 2006	That's what I've been telling all of you, but do you listen, no!!!:p I dont trust race 07, if it aint modable then it's crap to me, and I hated the Race WTCC 06 demo as I hated the GFX and the handling. I'll wait for GTR3 before I buy a SimBin game again, Race is made by a different group of SimBiners than the GTR guys I think!!!

10 September 07, 21:51	#16
swannyUK Join Date: Mar 2007	Ok, i did right a huge post about how the cars handle etc in response to sidewinder's question but then realised there was no point as he already knows the answer TBH i think the race07 demo is ok. I like some of the new touches that simbin has made. The action cam is good for replay use and the sound is alot better. My beef is with the FFB. I'm not really that bothered that the game has so many cars and tracks. It bothers me that the FFB feels way different from the orginal race before the big patch and this demo. I got alot more feeling from the first RACE, GTL etc etc. After simbin realeased the first RACE did the WTCC teams go "by the way the FFB is actually wrong"? Kyril - You don't care for the slower touring cars ...oh well, not your cup of tea. Don't buy the game and quite your damn bitching! I hope this isn’t towards me.. Would be stupid if it was seeing as though I have jason plato in my display pic..... Last edited by swannyUK; 10 September 07 at 23:14.

10 September 07, 23:28	#20
swannyUK Join Date: Mar 2007	BTW i was testing out the AI (yes, i know its a demo) but they are still doing that silly thing where the lights go off, you go 100yards and they start braking and hitting each other like complete retards. I recall them doing this on RACE alot of the time. Also not really making any effort to go past unless you go and park somewhere Last edited by swannyUK; 10 September 07 at 23:38.

11 September 07, 12:15	#39
swannyUK Join Date: Mar 2007	SUCCESS!!!!!! I no longer have any problems with FFB. Thats one thing sorted Deleted the FFB settings in the PLR file for RACE and put the ones from GTR2 in there and it feels alot better Here are my FFB settings. Copy your .plr file to desktop as a backup then replace the ffb settings with these http://www.aran-w.com/crossy/ffb.txt see what you think Last edited by swannyUK; 11 September 07 at 12:21.

10 September 07, 19:26	#4
David Wright Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: UK	I disagree. IMO RACE and RACE 07 are just as serious simulations as GTL and GTR2. Have you driven Race Driver 3? RACE is NOTHING like it. This accusation comes out with every new Simbin release. People said it when GTL came out and people said it again when GTR2 came out. No doubt they will say it again when GTR3 comes out. Simbin are the only company who are producing simulations of real racing series. Its a shame its so fashionable in the simracing community to bash developers. If I were Simbin I'd abandon the simracing community and make some real money doing something else.

10 September 07, 19:30	#5
~~Fool_1njection~~ Banned Join Date: Dec 2006	I only bash the Race series 06 & 07, I think it's a bunch of noobs building them compared to the guys on GTR1,2 and probanly 3!!! The graphics on Race 06 was so weird and unreal to me, almost cartoony!!! Sure, SimBin are the only developer with real simulations and for that I'm gratefull, not like Codemasters with the Childish Toca RD 2&3!!!

10 September 07, 19:32	#6
JMSpeed Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Florida, U.S.A. Age: 27	I noticed no change in physics with the update. The cars feel on the edge at all times ...especially with the BMW. I don't know how many times I have to really modulate throttle on a lot of areas without bringing the tail around. The same goes for braking. Even though I know the correct amount of pressure to apply to not lock the brakes, when I miss my braking zone ...see ya front splittah! The game really doesn't feel like it is lacking realism. Perhaps the F3000 does, but I say that because they car is probably easier to drive in real life with so much downforce. Therefore, it would be that way in the game too.

10 September 07, 19:35	#7
ccuebas_19 Join Date: Apr 2007	If GTR3 is the same as the RACE games I think it means the end of SIMBIN... I hadn't thought about how important it is to have a moddable game, not ONE single sim I own untouched... I have so much crap on F1C you wouldn't believe it, and I love it! I have a clean install of every game just in case... but I will confess, I erased the first RACE game I bought and it's lying around somewhere, and the RACE 07 demo, downloaded it yesterday... erased it right after... this is really worrying... I think GTR3 should have the same ISI engine as rFactor, it should look and sound like rFactor, but with GTR2 physics, and obviously: new cars, and completely MODDABLE! Cheers PS: Almost forgot, NO F***ING STEAM!!

10 September 07, 19:43	#8
~~Fool_1njection~~ Banned Join Date: Dec 2006	GTR2 and rF have very similar engines anyway I think, GTR2 has better GFX too?!?!? I'm sure gtr3 will also be modable like gtr2, race = toilet -

10 September 07, 19:48	#10
~~Fool_1njection~~ Banned Join Date: Dec 2006	Thank you!!!

10 September 07, 19:50	#11
swannyUK Join Date: Mar 2007	David Wright - I disagree. IMO RACE and RACE 07 are just as serious simulations as GTL and GTR2.Have you driven Race Driver 3? RACE is NOTHING like it. Yes. I played Race driver 3 with a wheel and soon realised that it was a control pad that was needed. I then gave up with it about an hour later as you could go around hairpin corners at silly speed. I am not comparing the handling of RACE and RACE07 with Codemasters games. I am saying that since the big patch for RACE the handling and FFB isnt as good as the older titles. The reference to codemasters was about what the game offers. Simbin look as if they are now churning out games that are more towards people who want 10,0000000 different cars and tracks to play with and just jump straight in. Grab the WTCC mod that was converted from RACE for GTR2. Then get the UK Tour WIP and have a play for an hour with the AI on difficult. You will soon see that even a conversion from the old RACE to GTR2 is much better than what simbin are offering ATM with RACE07 The AI are a tad better on this demo i will give it that but i hopped straight back on the UK Tour mod and was watching my mirrors all through the race.

10 September 07, 20:43	#13
~~gazman~~ Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: canberra Australia	WTCC RACE + RACE07 same game. it's a good way to get $160 for a racing game.

10 September 07, 21:15	#14
Kyril Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Vermont, USA Age: 54	RACE is an awesome game, RACE 07 promises to be even better, and judging by the demo, it will. My dollars are already tagged for purchase as soon as it's released. You don't care for the slower touring cars ...oh well, not your cup of tea. Don't buy the game and quite your damn bitching!

10 September 07, 21:24	#15
Sidewinder16 Donated Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 28	A bit of a serious question for those of you complaining about the handling of the cars in the RACE 07 demo. How many of you have driven these race cars in real life and know how they should handle around a particular race track? I like the RACE 07 demo and found both the F3000 and the WTCC cars a bit of a handful to drive at times. Good fun to race with too.

10 September 07, 21:54	#17
PhilH959 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Virginia, USA Age: 54	I agree with Sidewinder and David. Race07 has the BEST FFB of any race sim ever. The closeness of the cars, BMW and SEAT makes for some very good side by side racing. I am sure those of the F550 regime will find this just too slow. I also, like Kyril, have robbed my piggybank for what promises to be THE next racing sim. I am an old Nascar fanatic, and have just joined the ranks of GTR2 fans worldwide since Christmas 2006, and I for one am extremely happy with all that has transpired to date. I think that Race07, will be just as entertaining as GTR2. I find myself wanting to play it more and more ever day. And thanks to Simbin for a VERY cool demo! Phil

10 September 07, 23:11	#18
monk headhunter Join Date: Nov 2006	Race is soooo Toca based game by Codemasters.. stupid and simple with boring cars, simplified physics, none sense of speed and power, and so on... And guess what.. For those of you who still haven`t install race 07 beta.. don`t!!! For the love of god don`t do it!!! Everithing about `new engine, diffferent expirience...` was bullcrap! it is the same fu**in` game with diffferent main menus and some more cars... The reason for staying on PC platform has stoped to excist! Now only GT 5 on PS3 will remain as he always have been... the king of simulations.

10 September 07, 23:32	#21
JMSpeed Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Florida, U.S.A. Age: 27	I can't imagine the update causing this much commotion. Everything was fine until it happened ...then many of you began complaining. I honestly felt no change in the update :confused: Certainly, judgment should be withheld until the retail game is released in case there are some strange demo behaviors going on.

10 September 07, 23:49	#23
PhilH959 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Virginia, USA Age: 54	I dont think you and I have the same demo....the AI is blistering fast and not behaving like AI at all....the come up behind me and blink thier lights and aggresively maneuver around me without taking me out. I too noticed no difference after the update. Didi you use the default settings for the AI? Try 100%....I really think this demo is spot on all the way around, and can only hope the final will be as good or better. Phil

11 September 07, 00:09	#25
ccuebas_19 Join Date: Apr 2007	I agree with PhilH959, the AI has ridiculously improved... I have one of the buttons on my MOMO with the rear view, and almost everytime I see it, there's this damn dude flipping his headlights at me, it's pretty cool!!! But like I said, physics suck... Have I ever driven these cars?? Mmmm... ... have YOU ever driven the GTR2/GTL cars?? Yet, they still feel real huh?? ... think before you post.... The other main things are it not being moddable, steam, the cartoony look to it... and I'm sure others will find other things that are wrong with it... I for one absolutely LOVE the pit limiter... it's BY FAR the most realistic I've seen, would be a joy to have in GTR2... the models are splendid as well... Dunno, will see what happens... I'll probably end up buying it...

11 September 07, 00:35	#26
Kneegrow Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Indiana	I have to ditto everything Phil has said. The new FF feel is incredible. You feel everything now as compared to GTR2. Graphics wise, may be a tad better then GTR2 but not by much though.

11 September 07, 00:36	#27
swannyUK Join Date: Mar 2007	It was the starts that peed me off more than anything on RACE. Biggest pain / gain depending on how you look at it was the run up to druids at brands. First lap they all would single file it on the racing line and you just shot up and gained 3rd place from the back of a 20 car grid. They just dont flow very well for me. i.e - braking on straights and out of corners I've read that AI is a pain in the arse so i will let them off Still probably wont buy this tho as it's not very different from RACE and i've just got into modding so i want something a bit mor mod friendly As for FF me and my mates must not be HUMAN.... I've got the Saitek r440 wheel with everything in the RACE FF control panel maxed out. If i go and play GTR, GTR2, GTL i can feel everything and know what the car is doing. With race it's just boring and has no where near as much:S

11 September 07, 00:38	#28
Kneegrow Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Indiana	I noticed the ULA mentioned Custom skins and tracks. Does this suggest a possible track editor coming with this game?

11 September 07, 00:39	#29
Gutshot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alaska Interior	Well, some good folks think Race 07 demo is crap. I am not one of them! I thought that was a lot of venom to dispense on a $29.99 sim. I was wrong though. I just pre-ordered Race 07 from Ebgames online for $22.98 delivered. If you don't like Race 07 or Steam, you can spend your $22.98 on something else and be happy.

11 September 07, 00:52	#30
swannyUK Join Date: Mar 2007	I guess i will never really be happy until someone brings out a good BTCC sim. If you live in the UK and follow the BTCC then you will know why it should be looked into. "Best tin top racing series in the world"

11 September 07, 00:58	#31
JMSpeed Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Florida, U.S.A. Age: 27	Yeah, over GTR2 ...the pit limiter, rain effects and FFB have drastically or noticeably improved. I haven't really experienced the AI that much, so nothing to say on that. Swanny, how did you get the mid-day sun effects to look so good in that clip?

11 September 07, 01:32	#32
swannyUK Join Date: Mar 2007	no idea there to be honest. Just got the graphics maxed out

11 September 07, 09:32	#35
geeman Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Scotland Age: 28	I think we've all forgotten the true, the one, the ONLY racing simulation! Formula One Grand Prix for the PC back in 1991/1992!!! I will want to see how Race07 plays for single seaters. I wanna formula ford championship instead of the turd that Toca made. Starting from 7th, and you had to win to continue the game. Load of bollocks that!

11 September 07, 09:54	#36
Jim_Beam Guest	this thread,its topic and arguments are totally pointless did you people not read this befor ou downloaded.. This is the official demo of RACE 07 - The WTCC game and does not necessarily reflect the quality of the final product.... so please wait till the game is released before you start posting crap

11 September 07, 13:02	#41
swannyUK Join Date: Mar 2007	yeh that annoyed the hell out of me. If that did that in a real race car you would get white finger! It's not the rumble that bothered me. If i went in a frontwheel drive car like the leon and went around a corner full throttle there would be no deviation (excuse spelling) in the force. It would be the same amount of strength. With the gtr2 ffb on i know when the front wheels are slipping because the wheel goes a tad slack

11 September 07, 16:13	#44
PhilH959 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Virginia, USA Age: 54	Hmmm...defianately not the AI that's in my demo. I can see why you have your low opinion of them. In my game, It is all I can do to keep up with them. And they dont get all stupid like that vid. Another of our regulars felt the same way as you after that bad/weird update. But he tried it again last night and got his butt kicked by the AI. And Ezza's no racing slouch! He said they were putting the bumper to him and flat spun him out as they were braking later than he! I wouldn't worry to much about this update glitch and or the demo. I feel that it has shown me enough good stuff/promise, that I will surely buy it. Hopefully your AI will get off to school straight away, because that was just awful! Phil

11 September 07, 18:07	#46
swannyUK Join Date: Mar 2007	yup. It's probably because i play the TOCA mod for gtr2 that audir8fan is talking about. The AI on that are top notch