Question to parents (and kids!)

[diffuser]

(Not sure if this should be in the Computech section or here...)

I'm currently starting a small computer service business. Basically it's me running around to peoples homes and help them with their computer woes.

Amongst other things I am offering courses for children and parents. I know that computer and internet courses for kids are nothing new, but I haven't seen that many for parents.

Now, my question to those of you guys who have kids is: what would you look for in a computer course designed to show you how to teach your kids a safe and responsible way of handling computers and internet?

I have some basic ideas, but I'd still like all the input I can get.

Do you want to have your kids browse through the web on special kids browsers or do you want them to be able to explore the "real" web? Do you want to give them a restricted user account or should they be able to format the harddrive if they feel like it? Are you sitting next to your kids when they surf, or do you let them do it on their own? And if you do let them have it all their own way, do you still want to be able to check up on what they're doing?

I want to tailor my courses to the individual needs of the different types of parents of course, but having some general ideas and input would be really great.

[CX650]

It's a good place to start as your question is not related to simracing.

As a former Bournemouth social services volunteer IT instructor I feel that you are showing care and responsibility by asking. I wish you success in your efforts.

[ravenmorpheus2k]

You are of course assuming that parents know how to use a computer in first place.

I'd also look at how to educate the parents in using their computers as well as how they wish their kids to use them.

Imo you can't dictate to someone how they will use something if you don't know how to use it yourself.

[Pumpkin888]

In my opinion(coming from someone who isn't a parent) it is a good idea to lay some ground rules, then let them explore.

[diffuser]

Originally Posted by CX650

It's a good place to start as your question is not related to simracing.

As a former Bournemouth social services volunteer IT instructor I feel that you are showing care and responsibility by asking. I wish you success in your efforts.

Thanks

Yeah, I'm taking the idea very serious. I think teaching kids stuff is important because they have to know it for their later life and for that exact same reason it has to be done right, because if you screw up teaching them, they will use that screwed up knowledge and screw up their lives somehow.

(by the way, I was a tutor for accountancy for several years... nothing worse than teaching bored 16 year old girls how to keep books. But they all made it in the end and I even got them to laugh in my classes sometimes, so I think I can get the teaching part of it right at least )

[Pumpkin888]

Originally Posted by ravenmorpheus2k

You are of course assuming that parents know how to use a computer in first place.

I'd also look at how to educate the parents in using their computers as well as how they wish their kids to use them.

Imo you can't dictate to someone how they will use something if you don't know how to use it yourself.

Yeah you can, my parents try to dictate to me how to use my racing wheel, monitor, (their) copier/scanner/card reader, cameras(my dad does know how to use a camera and has taught me a lot), and many other things.

[diffuser]

Originally Posted by ravenmorpheus2k

You are of course assuming that parents know how to use a computer in first place.

I'd also look at how to educate the parents in using their computers as well as how they wish their kids to use them.

Imo you can't dictate to someone how they will use something if you don't know how to use it yourself.

Good points.
Actually I'm not assuming the parents know anything, which is why I had the idea in the first place.
My guess is (and this is just a guess) that some parents may not really be interested in computers, but they know that their kids are - or that the kids at least should not be kept out of the loop. If the parents don't want to learn how to use the computers for themselves, that's fine, but I would show them how to watch over what their kids are doing, how to administer a computer, give the kids certain rights and keep others from them... a basic course in that kind of stuff, so they'll know what they're talking about. If they ask for it of course, I can't force a parent to learn anything, even if I'd get filthy stinkin' rich with that

[Pizzaman]

It would be handy to know for parents how to install net-nanny and such stuff.

I don't use it. The PC they are allowed to use is in the living and they know that if they step out of line they'll be bound to the drawing book...
Works very well.

[gtr2_race_pro]

yah alot of parents have no idea how to use computer and jstu dont care, my mum had/s no idea how to use them, lucky i liked them and teach my self alot, i been looking after my own computer and the net my self since i was about 12. so maybe you should also think about teaching anti virus and things, as not many people want to sit inside and lean about how to get rid of a virus when there 12 instead of playing out side with the other kids...

[diffuser]

Originally Posted by Pizzaman

It would be handy to know for parents how to install net-nanny and such stuff.

I don't use it. The PC they are allowed to use is in the living and they know that if they step out of line they'll be bound to the drawing book...
Works very well.

Net Nanny is an interesting thing. I personally would never use it, as it feels too much like spying. But I guess, if some parents want to spy on their kids, I should be able to offer them a safe programm to use.
The PC in the living room thing is another excellent point. If the parents don't have a computer and only want to get one for the kids sake, I would always advise them to put it in the living room, not the kids room.

Originally Posted by gtr2_race_pro

yah alot of parents have no idea how to use computer and jstu dont care, my mum had/s no idea how to use them, lucky i liked them and teach my self alot, i been looking after my own computer and the net my self since i was about 12. so maybe you should also think about teaching anti virus and things, as not many people want to sit inside and lean about how to get rid of a virus when there 12 instead of playing out side with the other kids...

The anti virus / firewall protection is a basic of course.

Does anybody have experience with kids and dubious pay sites? While researching this stuff yesterday, I stumbled upon a site where you can downlad homework. You have to register with your name and adress (which is a no-no of course) and once you've done that, you've entered a one year contract which costs 7 euros a month. The whole contract thing is rather well hidden, kids would propably not find it. I think here in Germany, 7 euros a month would fall under a pocket money paragraph, so it's not illegal, but it's still something the kids would have to be warned about.

[gtr2_race_pro]

yah good idea, to bad i can never find me a homework site >< lol. i dont think i ever used my correct name and address for any site, not even wow, never no who might get it *shifty eye* but then again if people wanted it that bad they would have to no how to use computers and they probley could just get it through my ip or somthing

[diffuser]

Originally Posted by gtr2_race_pro

yah good idea, to bad i can never find me a homework site >< lol. i dont think i ever used my correct name and address for any site, not even wow, never no who might get it *shifty eye* but then again if people wanted it that bad they would have to no how to use computers and they probley could just get it through my ip or somthing

How old are you if I may ask? I'm mainly targeting children who are 12 and younger... there's lots of offers for kids in that age category with chat rooms and such, but sadly, young children may not be able to distinguish between the clean sites and the suspicious ones. Teaching them and their parents how to do that (ie running a quick google search) would be one of the first things I'd do.

[gtr2_race_pro]

16 now, so not that long ago and i know what u mean, i nearly did the wrong thing so many times, google was always a problem for me as there was nothing to show what the sites where, and as i said be i was on my own from about 11 on.

Btw new avatar :O

[diffuser]

Originally Posted by gtr2_race_pro

16 now, so not that long ago and i know what u mean, i nearly did the wrong thing so many times, google was always a problem for me as there was nothing to show what the sites where, and as i said be i was on my own from about 11 on.

Btw new avatar :O

So in your opinion, what are the most important things 11 year-olds should learn?

[gtr2_race_pro]

well depends on how much the parents know, internet security would be the biggest thing ofcause, not posting your name, and what sites are good and not so good to go onto. And then if the parent is just computer mind dead, like my mum, it is really hard to teach them how to know about it, (trust me my 26 y/o brother and i have tried for hours) so it is good for the child to know about looking after the computer and firewalls/anti virus, thats if there intrested ofcause. i never got told much about the whole anti virus thing, in the end of my first computer (when i was about 12) it had so many viruses it wasnt funny, this lead to everythink including porn popups which no parent want to have on a computer there child uses lol, so if u could teach them about that, it leads back to the net security and not clicking on the wrong thing... kids like clicking on flashy popups lol.

also dont forget to teach them how to get onto this site altough its probley a good idea to have them on a safe fourm, can psot there if they need help ^^

[gtr2_race_pro]

Also i found my self wondering if i should or shouldnt download somthing from the web. Torrents are they good what are they ect, and somthing alot of young teens normally do, music downloads, where ad if its safe

[pitradio]

I don't believe netnanny is a good thing to use after a specific age. I think after the age of 8, when the child can find out that the parents are using such a program, a program like net nanny can kill a good relationship between parent and child. The child thinks: "They don't trust me". Same like parents who hire detectives to find out what their child does throughout the day.

Windows Vista has options for parents to dictate to their chidren when the child can work behind the pc (on the childs own account), and what the child can do. Is internet available and that kind of thing... Also a non-solution, as the child of family I once helped with thid, just reinstalled windows with one account... Only an account for himself was made and his parents couldn't do anything anymore, and their important stuff was gone. I warned them for this possibility before so they knew this could happen.


I've found my own way in computing since I was 3. Using MS DOS in the beginning and starting on the internet when I was 12 or so around 1999/2000. My parents never helped witht he computer as I knew how it worked .

[gtr2_race_pro]

yah, mum always threatened to get my brother to put on stuff, as soon as she said it i jsut told her a way to get around it, them programmes arnt that good, makes children hate there parents ^^, i never did anythink bad on the computer any way, only looking at dirty dirty pictures.... blue and orange aston martins *FILTH!!* lol

[diffuser]

Well, it's not my job to raise other peoples kids or tell the parents how I think their kids should be raised, I just have to give the parents the tools to raise the kids the way they want... no matter what I might think of it. Tough job when you have a big mouth like mine, but there you go

Thanks gtr2_race_pro, your posts were really interesting to read! I won't show them this forum, as I am on it and I don't want to be hassled by my clients when I'm not working
But finding out if a site is "good" or "bad" is pretty important, that's something I have to keep in mind.

[Pizzaman]

I stumbled upon a site where you can downlad homework. You have to register with your name and adress (which is a no-no of course) and once you've done that, you've entered a one year contract which costs 7 euros a month. The whole contract thing is rather well hidden, kids would propably not find it. I think here in Germany, 7 euros a month would fall under a pocket money paragraph, so it's not illegal, but it's still something the kids would have to be warned about.

I'd kick their ass... I mean the ass of the homwork site.
I'd literally drive there and kick their ass.
And probably spam their site to hell

including porn popups which no parent want to have on a computer there child uses lol, so if u could teach them about that, it leads back to the net security and not clicking on the wrong thing... kids like clicking on flashy popups lol.

You mean, teach the PARENTS to hide their trails

[diffuser]

Originally Posted by Pizzaman

I'd kick their ass... I mean the ass of the homwork site.
I'd literally drive there and kick their ass.
And probably spam their site to hell

How good is your german? www.hausaufgaben.de

Uh... if any of the youngsters around here wanna add their two cents, I'd be happy to listen to anybody!

[pitradio]

Originally Posted by diffuser

How good is your german? www.hausaufgaben.de

Uh... if any of the youngsters around here wanna add their two cents, I'd be happy to listen to anybody!

Those exist in Dutch as well. I only used it for summaries of English, French, Dutch and German books I had to read. So I could give an explanation what that book was about.. I hate reading books.

www.scholieren.com it was I think..

[Pumpkin888]

Well, I think that those homework sites are rather stupid. Here in the "Great American Society" most children just make others do it for them under threat of physical violence. The problem with some of these people is that I am smart enough and strong enough to win fights.

For example,

Someone decided to threaten to break my arm, I could have snapped his arm in half because he didn't do it properly, but I decided not to.

:BACK TO TOPIC:

I think that anti-virus is a must as well as pop-up blocker, and yeah, teaching parents to hide their tracks is a good idea.

[gtr2_race_pro]

Originally Posted by Pizzaman

You mean, teach the PARENTS to hide their trails

haha no i was the only 1 to use the computer, was intresting when mum walked in 1 day and i was talking to friends with a background of dicks lol

[diffuser]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin888

I think that anti-virus is a must as well as pop-up blocker, and yeah, teaching parents to hide their tracks is a good idea.

How about something like flashblock or addblock? To keep the brightly coloured ads from appearing and getting kids to click on them.
I just remembered that I have to tell them that they are NOT the 999.999. person to visit a website, even if it says so.

[pitradio]

Any good browser already has a pop-up blocker. Addblock and flashblock are not allowed by all websites because most websites generate income with the adds. And by removing them they will lose income

[gtr2_race_pro]

i wanted to be the 999,999 visitor ... and if u were y would u be getting a prize and not the millionth

[Pumpkin888]

Originally Posted by gtr2_race_pro

haha no i was the only 1 to use the computer, was intresting when mum walked in 1 day and i was talking to friends with a background of dicks lol

Ok, that was probably very awkward.

[gtr2_race_pro]

btw my popups whernt coming through the browser lol

[gtr2_race_pro]

wheres hobo?, he should give his say here aswell

[diffuser]

Yeah, anybody 16 and under would be interesting. Come on kids, your opinion is needed for once!

[BeepBeep2]

Originally Posted by diffuser

So in your opinion, what are the most important things 11 year-olds should learn?

Nothing but what is taught in school. Block them from self-educating themselves from the internet, or they will turn out like me. (Placed $1800 order on my mom's credit card, built *most of* the beauty below at 11.)

[BeepBeep2]

Originally Posted by diffuser

How about something like flashblock or addblock? To keep the brightly coloured ads from appearing and getting kids to click on them.
I just remembered that I have to tell them that they are NOT the 999.999. person to visit a website, even if it says so.

As a kid myself, I never really payed any attention to those ads. I mean, they aren't around as much as lets say, 2005 anyway...but it's one thing if you suffer from epilepsy, those things could trigger a seizure!

I think the main age group to worry about those types of ads are 5-11. Most 12+ year olds should have enough grey matter in their head to know it's fake.
*EDIT*
Just a little to add on the anti-virus:
I've used McAfee VirusScan since 2002. Give me a second to count how many processes it uses up. Seven. + about 5 Windows host processes. So, it adds up to about 12. I'm currently running 53. (Don't be suprised to see upwards of 70 on Vista machines with crap running on them...) 53 - 12 = 41. 41 sounds much, much more trimmed down than 53. And I've been infected with a worm/trojan/virus 1 time since 1999. When was it? 2002. Right before I started using Virus software. I don't think it's necessary. And if someone does want Virus Software: http://www.free-av.com/
Avira is free, lite, and not $50 USD a year like this bloated crap I've had for 7 years.

[diffuser]

Originally Posted by BeepBeep2

I think the main age group to worry about those types of ads are 5-11. Most 12+ year olds should have enough grey matter in their head to know it's fake.

Would you let 5-11 year olds onto the real web, or would you rather restrict them to a safe, clean "kids" version?

[Pizzaman]

Ah well, I use Pop-Up Killer which gets 99.9% of them, and the 'home free' version of Avast Antivirus.
Never have any problems, and the kids can visit whatever they like.
However the PC is in the living so we usually watch a bit what they are doing.

How good is your german? www.hausaufgaben.de

LOL, when I was younger I'd have liked to 'mach Hausaufgaben mit diese Gabi'...
Oh Mann da wurde nichts gemacht, gans keine Hausaufgaben mal...

[Pizzaman]

Originally Posted by BeepBeep2

Nothing but what is taught in school. Block them from self-educating themselves from the internet, or they will turn out like me. (Placed $1800 order on my mom's credit card, built *most of* the beauty below at 11.)

You mean you ordered a busload of strippers
Now that would mean you'd have a helluva 16th birthday party if I were your parent
You wouldn't dare to talk about it in school though...

[BeepBeep2]

Rofl,

www.securecomputing.com

It's what my local school district uses, diffuser...blocks certain ads, and denies (optional) use of forums, streaming video sites, and pornographic images etc.

Webwasher...

*Filtering on category
Take advantage of comprehensive and granular category coverage; the McAfee TrustedSource Web Database provides a proven repository of more than 25 million blockable websites across more than 90 categories

[RMi Release Group]

my son used and still uses the internet since age 5 or so, he is now 16yr. I never filtered his access and never found anything of real concern.

[boyracer5500]

My parents always said this. We cant shield you of everything, thats life. You can try but then you wouldnt know how to react to the real world. Ive been surfing the net filter free since I was 5. Never have gotten virus or anything of that sort.

[Pumpkin888]

Originally Posted by boyracer5500

My parents always said this. We cant shield you of everything, thats life. You can try but then you wouldnt know how to react to the real world. Ive been surfing the net filter free since I was 5. Never have gotten virus or anything of that sort.

Somebdy got a virus on my machine a while ago, actually, two viruses. One was something like krap.win32.something. The other one was F-Secure.

[BeepBeep2]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin888

Somebdy got a virus on my machine a while ago, actually, two viruses. One was something like krap.win32.something. The other one was F-Secure.

I got a virus called explorer.exe ...

[Pizzaman]

Well, FWIW nobody taught me how to use the net.
I never had filters, boy, did it teach me something about the world

Now that was when I was a bit older...
Can't say it didn't change me... or maybe I was destined to become a sicko

[pitradio]

I nbever had filters neither. But then, I started on the net when I was 12. ANd at first 1999/2000 I was only chatting all the time

Never heard of Google back then, I used Ilse search (www.ilse.nl) . and I did chat at chat.ilse.nl Doesn't exist anymore. And my mail was from lycos.com

been through the KaZaA and napster times and yea I got some viruses through KaZaA.