Revised Uploading Rules

[scca1981]

Originally Posted by RMi Release Group

I guess that because every new "expansion pack" for Race07 includes the Radicals, our conversion will never achieve the one year grace period?

Yeah they got ya on that one

[raphaelnariga]

I think for money, the video-game companies are right in this aspect, because, you have a good sim race game and of course you'll want to play with all cars you could, if the modders keep converting cars from other games to your personal "best game", you never buy a new racing game, just waiting for a conversion....for the other game companies its bad, sure, this isnt a healthy competition.

But...the companies have to get attention that the players need, if you buy Shift expectating a simulation game you'll get disappointed.....you have GTR2, you are waiting for a new game, what does the Simbin do? .......they make anoooooother WTCC expansion game, instead of a GTR3 for example...or a game with new graphics, visual, realism, to get this more attractive...Race Pro for XB360 is a good example, why dont they expand a sim game like that for PC platform too?

Unfortunately after Rfactor, GTR racing franchise, the simulation racing games stopped in time...you just see "new generation, new graphics, PhysX, etc etc" but not a new competitive "sim racing" like the people here want to play...so what do the players do? convert cars, tracks, and so on, to get some of these "new material" to your "personal old and good racing game"...

PS.: Sorry for my english guys, I'm brazilian and I just tried to put here my opinion...hope you understand what I'd want to say

[Roger]

Originally Posted by RMi Release Group

I guess that because every new "expansion pack" for Race07 includes the Radicals, our conversion will never achieve the one year grace period?

I suspect this type of situation needs a little common sense to be applied.

If in doubt ask the moderators and we will come to the most sensible decision that we can.

[David Wright]

Originally Posted by Roger

I suspect this type of situation needs a little common sense to be applied.

If in doubt ask the moderators and we will come to the most sensible decision that we can.

I repeat - the expansions don't include the Radical - it isn't an issue.

[Pizzaman]

Originally Posted by Husky42

Muria, Camaro, Ascari, RMi Ferrari mod, Chevelle, V8 Challenge etc

A huge amount of cars that are interestingly enough still in the downloads section - In fact most of the new car mods that are not modified simbin content and resulting skins are still there.

Q: do we really think EA has... (had... how old is that! ) a competing title with any SimBin tiltes... uhhh... Tentacle... uhhh... other old crap... uhh... forget that, let me rephrase it:

Well, what I mean is:

Are NoGrip meaning to ban any mods from those old games (while EA could not care less provided you do not make any money) to any other old games* ?

*):where even the publisher has gone belly-up and the lobby has to be founded by the community

[swviper]

Originally Posted by Husky42

jasons and Jims sites.

Not going to post links here, i'm already close enough to getting banned

...well, it's re-assuring to know some things never change

[RMi Release Group]

well, i TRIED to post them after a year but EVO came out and was totally bitched out by all / community, so I removed it

[Hansaplast]

Conversions of original game content to competing game titles is not allowed

So converting original content from GPL (Sierra & Papyrus no longer exist,
also they cant compete any longer) to rFactor or Simbin-sims is allowed ?

[hpiracer]

Originally Posted by Admin

you can upload addons/mods for NFS shift.. why wouldn't we allow that, the game producers have no problem with 3rd parties adding new content to their games, what they don't like is releasing a new game and losing sales because all its unique content is immediately ripped into other games, making purchasing it a lot less attractive.

What I am referencing is the E92 converted from Shift to GTR2.

I see skins and addons listed here, and it is, according to the rules, illegal.

but it is being allowed.

About the reputations, good or bad, no.

IF the rules are broken, they are broken.

Gray areas cause problems. They also make quite clear who is LIKED and not LIKED in the Higher Up circles.


If I post a screen of something not in accordance, you had better treat me the same way you would treat everyone else.

I don't want to be treated different, if I am LIKED or NOT LIKED.

I personally don't give a hoot about popularity. But it is real clear who The Powers That Be, Like and don't like.

I moderate at other sites, and have yet to see things as biased as they appear here, sometimes.

I agree, if a Noodle head just keeps breaking the rules, boot em.

But this site has taken a serious hit in Members, and attitude.

Most of the confusion and issues happening here, can be directly contributed to threads that are allowed in this sites forums.

Topics like:

How to convert a car to GTR2 from rFactor.

How to adapt a mod from this game to that game.

These are thing that you, the staff allow every day. How can you expect someone to understand when their conversion from rFactor to GTR2 is pulled, when it is openly discussed and allowed in the forums.

Or, even better.... let's just teach everyone how to open all the files in Shift, so they can extract the models.... to but them in another game.

I hope you are seeing my point.

If you want to have rules that are cut and dry "No Mod to this game from that game", or "No screenshots of your Personal converted content", then you need to NOT ALLOW such topics in your Forums.

Period.

If you want to live in the Gray Zone.... then you will have problems.

Make rules, stand by them, and if the decisions made are good ones, the site will be successful.

And, like in the real world, if you make bad decisions..... you know the rest.

Sorry, but common sense speaks for itself.

Also, to extend on the topic of modifying existing content from a game.

If this wants to get pushed to the extreme, read the End User License Agreement on the loading screen of your game.

Most all of them say that editing or modifying any content to the game is not allowed.

If you want to stop IT, you need to stop it ALL.

There is no mention in any of the games I play that say you can't ADD content.... but they ALL say, not modification to existing material.

correct me if I am wrong.

So, for the Decision makers, it is your call.

I am glad that I don't have to make it.....

[Empty Box]

And I quote.

Originally Posted by Admin

We will not be hosting skins or any other "tweaks" for an "illegal" mod, it only leads to more confusion/trouble - us being accused of double standards on rules, and usually people begging for links to find the mod.

This really isn't that difficult people. Weather or not you like them, they are the rules right now, adapt. Plenty of other places to upload something.

[Empty Box]

And worth asking here why we're at it, any chance for a "Flag for moderation" button (Similar to report but something less.... official sounding?) There are a few things I'd like to report, but what it is in question is a 50/50 thing in my book, would like to make sure it gets looked at rather than just binned/not.

[hpiracer]

For those of you out there that are having a hard time understanding my posts in this thread... Like Empty Box.....

I do not like the rules. Okay, hopefully this clears up the confusion.

I am not protesting them, or scolding the admins for their decision.

I am presenting the facts.

If I can't rob a bank, I can't rob a bank. Even if I want to.

so, If I can't upload something here, I can't upload it here.

No Big deal.

Doesn't mean that I have to run around posting everywhere that I have it, either.

So, I live in a world where I can't rob a bank, because the rules say so.

I am a member of a site that says I can't upload or download something, then I can't upload or download it.

Doesn't mean I like it, but if I want to be here, this is how it is.

and, that includes making mention of a site that I may have gotten something from..........

So, I hope this clears it up.

Jeff

[Empty Box]

You said......

Originally Posted by hpiracer

What I am referencing is the E92 converted from Shift to GTR2.

I see skins and addons listed here, and it is, according to the rules, illegal.

but it is being allowed.

To which I said.

Originally Posted by Empty Box

And I quote.

This really isn't that difficult people. Weather or not you like them, they are the rules right now, adapt. Plenty of other places to upload something.

No, it isn't being allowed. You seem quite confused, there is no grey area.

Nowhere did I mention anything about what you think about the rules in that message, anything within a PM is to remain in a PM, but I see we can't even do that.

Your sneaky roundabout posts get nothing done.

[hpiracer]

??????

[sunalp2]

If you see files that you think contravene site rules report them.

If you have uploads that you think may contravene site rules request confirmation from a site moderator or admin.

[Pizzaman]

Can I have an answer please, it's a legit question.

Not a nag-nag-nag or the usual Pizza-BS

[sunalp2]

Originally Posted by Pizzaman

Q: do we really think EA has... (had... how old is that! ) a competing title with any SimBin tiltes... uhhh... Tentacle... uhhh... other old crap... uhh... forget that, let me rephrase it:

Well, what I mean is:

Are NoGrip meaning to ban any mods from those old games (while EA could not care less provided you do not make any money) to any other old games* ?

*):where even the publisher has gone belly-up and the lobby has to be founded by the community

As it stands the rules apply to old games too.

A DVD check will be required.

[mallyauto86]

just lock the thread admins have made decision right ? ok get over it lock the thread and get rid of the skins etc for the shift conversions because yeah there are some here also for the v8 vantage.

would make this easier me thinks . . .

[sunalp2]

As long as the questions are valid we'll let it run a little longer.

[10thMountains]

What about renderpics in other games gallery section? I mean there are not game screenshots

[mallyauto86]

you can get away with render's they are not INGAME .... and ive done skins for tittles i dont have if nogrip bans that then well . . . no comment . .

[Sidewinder16]

Hmmm, some of you seem to be concerned over the fact the rules have been changed. Can I just appeal to you all for some common sense for a few minutes here.

Some of you are livid at the new restrictions on conversions. Rather than being negative and complaining about it why don't you do something positive instead. Learn how to do 3D modelling, learn how to do physics, etc etc. You might find yourself developing new skills that can be valuable elsewhere (new job/career perhaps?), plus there would be no issues with legalities as you will have full control over distribution as the copyright holder. Who cares if you don't get it right first time. Who cares if its not as good as the professional modellers. There is always a chance to improve and make it better. One day you might do a better job than said professionals.

Secondly, each of these games regardless of whether they are considered simulation or arcade are all competing titles. They are all competing for your cash. If you use any of the converted cars from these games they are clearly of some value to you. Are they not of some value to the developer as well? Should they not be rewarded for the time and effort they have put into their work for you to enjoy?

Without this reward developers will die. What happens then? How about no more GTR, no more NFS Shift, no more Grid, no more Rfactor. Oh and how about no more new fancy cars and tracks that you all seem to love. I don't think any of you in the slightest want that to happen.

So I put down a challenge to those of who do not like the new rules. Do something positive and learn how to mod. See if you can beat the professionals at their own game. Someday it may be you making the original content for games.

You know what I just have an urge to take another shot at 3D modelling again.

[mallyauto86]

ok but where does that answer the question about the rendering ?

[ravenmorpheus2k]

Originally Posted by sunalp2

As it stands the rules apply to old games too.

A DVD check will be required.

Whilst I don't disagree with this on the principles of legality, copyright etc. I do find it a bit erm difficult to understand. I mean who's going to install NFS Pro Street just to use my Ford GT GT3 mod for Evo and/or Merlin75s Ford GT for GTR2?!

It just does not make sense. EA don't lose any money from NFS Pro conversions, in the case of the Ford GT model myself and Merlin75 have used and I doubt they're even bothered about it.

What you're asking people to do is install a dozen or so old games, that may or may not install (take TRD2 for example, it won't install in Vista as I understand it) in order to have a selection of car models or tracks that people have given EA (or Codies) credit for and have openly acknowledged are not their work.

For new games that's fair enough but as someone with limited HDD space I know I wouldn't even waste time installing Shift, let alone NFS Pro or a TRD title, just to be able to use a mod with a DVD check that has content from one of those titles in a SimBin title.

Just my $0.02 on that response, don't shoot me.

[David Wright]

A DVD check shouldn't require an install.

[HR186S]

You don't have to install the game for a cd / dvd checker to work, you just need to pop your game disc in the tray when it asks, and thats it. A cd check is exactly that, checking the cd, not checking if a game is installed...

[mallyauto86]

ok but for example if you want 1 car out of shift and your pc wont run shift you have to pay 60 bucks to get one car out of the game ?

dont make sense . . . at all . . .

[gazman]

of course you have to buy the game . how do you get the model in the first place.
cd/dvd checks are fine, it takes like 5 seconds

[ravenmorpheus2k]

Originally Posted by David Wright

A DVD check shouldn't require an install.

Originally Posted by HR186S

You don't have to install the game for a cd / dvd checker to work, you just need to pop your game disc in the tray when it asks, and thats it. A cd check is exactly that, checking the cd, not checking if a game is installed...

Yeah I realised that just now.

But even so you're still asking people to dig out a half dozen CDs/DVDs each time people want to install a selection of mods that have content from games that are years old and not even making a lot of money, if any, for a company any more.

It's ridiculous.

For new games fair enough. Stuff like old NFS titles or TRD titles (in the case of some tracks) no sorry I just don't see why it's necessary.

We (the forum members here not the admins or mods) have seen nothing official from Codies or EA, unless what SCCA1981 had was indeed genuine, to suggest they are hacked off with content being converted to other platforms, only SimBin have come out and put the 1 year limitation on backwards conversions of their content.

So I just don't understand why the CD/DVD check rule still applies to older titles, that are not SimBins. Money is not the issue as the title has already had it's revenue cycle and often the developers have moved onto a new title and are making money from that and proper credit is usually given, so I really don't see the problem where older titles are concerned.

But they are the rules so I like everyone else will abide by them.

Now if someone would kindly do a "how to" for putting a CD/DVD check on a mod that would be a great help to us all.

[sunalp2]

Originally Posted by ravenmorpheus2k

Now if someone would kindly do a "how to" for putting a CD/DVD check on a mod that would be a great help to us all.

I'm looking into that myself. I have some uploads that will need it.

When I find out how to do it I'll let everyone know.

I have and exe creating program (NCIS) and I beleive there is a DVD check plug-in for it.

[gazman]

QUOTE ravenmorpheus2k - For new games fair enough. Stuff like old NFS titles or TRD titles (in the case of some tracks) no sorry I just don't see why it's necessary.

because somebody still makes money or owns rights to old games, You can't release a Elvis L.P. Album on CD even tho it is old.

[mallyauto86]

id like to know if EA actualy give a toss about any of this or we are just complicating it for everyone when there is no need lmfao

simbin ok they have the rule can we get intouch with EA ?

[mallyauto86]

if i was to email EA and got an official reply from them saying they dont care could we bin the shift illegal stuff ?

[Humpfester]

No one seemed to complain much about the PnG mod requiring a cd check.

[mallyauto86]

Originally Posted by Humpfester

No one seemed to complain much about the PnG mod requiring a cd check.

sim to sim . . . you dont need to buy somthing for pc that you dont want . . .

[ravenmorpheus2k]

Originally Posted by gazman

QUOTE ravenmorpheus2k - For new games fair enough. Stuff like old NFS titles or TRD titles (in the case of some tracks) no sorry I just don't see why it's necessary.

because somebody still makes money or owns rights to old games, You can't release a Elvis L.P. Album on CD even tho it is old.

Doesn't stop people "remixing" Elvis's stuff though does it. And you don't see a DVD check on noobtoob vids with Elvis as backing music.

And yes my examples are as much of a stretch as yours.

I understand the rights issues, but we give credits where credits are due and that's the way it's been done for, well, ever.

All of a sudden though we've got to put cd/dvd checks on content from EA titles (or anyone else really) whether it's new, old, borrowed or blue.

Is it because the site owners have had cease and desist letters from EA regarding all of their titles? Even if they have I'd imagine it's only regarding NFS Shift as that's their new baby.

@Humpfester - well I did query it with DucFreak when I came across the P&G mod, because I feel that as I own GTL and GTR2 it's unnecessary. But it was imposed by SimBin and iirc there was a clear presentation of their wishes.

As I said, to us the uploaders, donators and general forumites there is no outward indication that anyone but SimBin are pissed off with conversions to other titles.

@Frank - ooh cool I'll have a look into that NCIS app.

[mallyauto86]

im going to ring EA custumer services see what they say tbh if they say they dont care can we drop the hole thing ?

or is this nothing to do with them and just site policy ?

[gazman]

who's going to front up for a law suit test case ?

[ravenmorpheus2k]

Originally Posted by mallyauto86

im going to ring EA custumer services see what they say tbh if they say they dont care can we drop the hole thing ?

or is this nothing to do with them and just site policy ?

good luck.

Originally Posted by gazman

who's going to front up for a law suit test case ?

Haven't sites been doing that for ages now?

[mallyauto86]

Originally Posted by ravenmorpheus2k

good luck.



Haven't sites been doing that for ages now?

thanks but id like to see their view on this im not naming anyone or anysites just going to see what they think about it.

they cant charge me for anything i dont have any illegal conversions. and i own shift in double copy for ps3.

[gazman]

way to go dob us all in. you would just be alerting them to a situation

[mallyauto86]

Originally Posted by gazman

way to go dob us all in. you would just be alerting them to a situation

ok wont bother . . . but im damed if im buying nfs shift AGAIN when i already have 2 copys on ps3.

anychance of making cd checks compatible with ps3 and xbox version too ? would be little more fair for those who own the games on other platforms

[Alexi99]

Just my 2 cents here:
how about any game title that is no longer offered by their publisher (dead titles)
should be allowed to be cross-game conversion.
ie: Race Driver, Toca 2/3, would be OK, but Grid is hands-off.

[Pizzaman]

Originally Posted by ravenmorpheus2k

It just does not make sense. EA don't lose any money from NFS Pro conversions, in the case of the Ford GT model myself and Merlin75 have used and I doubt they're even bothered about it.

The fact is that EA even have stated that conversion is OK as long as you do not make any money of it.
Putting some of those cars into GTL should be no worry - else we ask the publisher

BTW I'm having a go into 3D modelling and bringin NEW stuff into the games.
Indeed if we all do, there's no problem (OK we'll have the usual 'not this game but that' bla-bla but the NGMT will tackle that).

Fact is, those meshes are very good, and we'd like to use some.

[Husky42]

Originally Posted by hpiracer

Most of the confusion and issues happening here, can be directly contributed to threads that are allowed in this sites forums.

Topics like:

How to convert a car to GTR2 from rFactor.

How to adapt a mod from this game to that game.

These are thing that you, the staff allow every day. How can you expect someone to understand when their conversion from rFactor to GTR2 is pulled, when it is openly discussed and allowed in the forums.

Or, even better.... let's just teach everyone how to open all the files in Shift, so they can extract the models.... to but them in another game.

I hope you are seeing my point.

If you want to have rules that are cut and dry "No Mod to this game from that game", or "No screenshots of your Personal converted content", then you need to NOT ALLOW such topics in your Forums.

If you want to stop IT, you need to stop it ALL.

Jeff I respectfully disagree, this whole perspective is something I have stood strongly against.

I believe discussing how to convert content, ie put it into another title and mod other games (games which require unpacking) is a must. Though that unpacking is indeed ILLEGAL and every user who unpacks the game is indeed violating the EULA. Thought it doesn't matter much.

However, like I was saying, you take away from the conversation and discussion on how to do something and it makes for a very dull boring modding community. Especially when conversion from game A to game B is still allowed here in terms of Mods ie a RF mod to GTR2 etc.

So it makes complete sense to still allow conversation. You disallow that and nogrip even takes a bigger hit.

Of course the only thing that makes this site any fun anymore is the OT Forum and Racing Forum.

As we have other places to download content I honestly cannot say the backlash is warranted here by anybody. They are rules, we may think they suck but in the end we have to deal with them and move on.


And sidewinder, maybe you know little in terms of effort that go's into some conversion work so let me appeal to you here with a little truth and fact.

I have redone entire physic sets, tires sounds, engine, suspension and all for mods to suit my own needs.

Remapping, template creation, joining not to mention complicated 3D ripping that occurs in order to get to models in the first place. Not all "modelers" even understand how to put content in game or do physics for that content.

There is a lot more work that go's into proper and quality conversions then many people give members credit for.

We should consider ourselves lucky that there are converters and people out there who understand how to do these things, and do them properly..

Plus when was the last time you bought 3D Studio Max - It's a pricey piece of software -

I've given my hand at modeling, i just don't like doing it. Same can be said for a lot of people with talent who you seemingly just put down. - This is just my view, please do not get all defensive but I feel like you imply that those who do not model lack a strong talent base when really that is very far from the truth.

[2dope]

+1

...and it's looks that even templates could be illegal from now.

I've question: what about conversion from free games?

[intelpower]

this rules are epic failure

thow them away and let have some business as usual.

Man this mods and admin care more about the potential lost profit of some big douchebags instead of our hobby which is some nice models in sim racing and have some fun

[Viper]

So you can't have fun while adhering to rules and respecting other peoples work?

Also, because YOU don't respect those "big douchebags" doesn't mean that nobody does.

Most people with common sense do, the gimme-gimme crowd doesn't care about doing the right thing, as usual.

Furthermore, we (mods and admins) will decide for ourselves what we care about most instead of having you tell us.

Also, when you enter someone else's house and you don't like their rules: Either abide by them and be silent or leave.
Pissing and moaning about them in such a manner shows of little to no respect.

[intelpower]

Originally Posted by Viper

So you can't have fun while adhering to rules and respecting other peoples work?

sorry but I didn't imply anything related to modders . They should be respected for doing for free but for a company like EA NFS is just another game from the hundrets or more that will be quickly forgotten once it's (short) lifecycle is over

Also, because YOU don't respect those "big douchebags" doesn't mean that nobody does.

So do you or the admins do it ?

Most people with common sense do, the gimme-gimme crowd doesn't care about doing the right thing, as usual.

Isn't the "right" thing is to save some of those historic models and give them right physics and such and being rescue from games that will be out of order in terms of life cycle

Furthermore, we (mods and admins) will decide for ourselves what we care about most instead of having you tell us.

Ok just say that you care about those big companies

Also, when you enter someone else's house and you don't like their rules: Either abide by them and be silent or leave.
Pissing and moaning about them in such a manner shows of little to no respect.

Might as well close the thread cos those rules will stay nomatter what.

Changing them would be an admission of being wrong anyway.

[Veloce]

Originally Posted by Hansaplast

Conversions of original game content to competing game titles is not allowed

So converting original content from GPL (Sierra & Papyrus no longer exist,
also they cant compete any longer) to rFactor or Simbin-sims is allowed ?

if you read the whole rule there are conditions that allow exemptions..

Originally Posted by Empty Box

And worth asking here why we're at it, any chance for a "Flag for moderation" button (Similar to report but something less.... official sounding?) There are a few things I'd like to report, but what it is in question is a 50/50 thing in my book, would like to make sure it gets looked at rather than just binned/not.

err, what do you think the report button does - it starts a topic in the Staff section, someone looks at it, and decides what to do based on the evidence available, sometimes no action is taken, sometimes a file might be suspended while we ask more questions about it and based on the outcome of that the file will either be reinstated or binned, and other times, when the file is blatantly breaking the rules, it gets binned.

Originally Posted by 10thMountains

What about renderpics in other games gallery section? I mean there are not game screenshots

Originally Posted by mallyauto86

you can get away with render's they are not INGAME .... and ive done skins for tittles i dont have if nogrip bans that then well . . . no comment . .

I guess that would depend how you name/describe the picture.
If you said "BMW M3 from NFS Shift ready to go into GTR2" then its a problem and it will be deleted.
BUT
If you said "BMW M3" and left it at that, no problem