NoGripRacing.com

Go Back   NoGripRacing Forums > PC Racing > Grand Prix Legends

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12 March 10, 07:07   #1
delta_lima
 
delta_lima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Default GPL vs rFactor with classic mods

Hello all,

I'm a fan of GTL, been using it for a couple of years. Am looking to dip my toe into open wheel simming ... any guidance as to which sim is better from a graphics and enjoyment point of view? Don't want arcade, but am not a ultra hard core simmer - something immersive and enjoyable.

Thoughts, pros/cons each way?

thanks.

dl
delta_lima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 March 10, 17:58   #2
David Wright
 
David Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by delta_lima View Post
Hello all,

I'm a fan of GTL, been using it for a couple of years. Am looking to dip my toe into open wheel simming ... any guidance as to which sim is better from a graphics and enjoyment point of view? Don't want arcade, but am not a ultra hard core simmer - something immersive and enjoyable.

Thoughts, pros/cons each way?

thanks.

dl
If you have any respect for modders you won't touch the rFactor conversion which is banned here and at other major sites.

rFactor has the potential for better graphics as it can easily handle more detailed models, but by converting the GPL models the illegal mod throws away the advantage - GPL looks better. Also as a sim designed around the era it is more immersive than rFactor. The menus are better, the cars have drivers in them who change gear, there is a man with a flag to start the races and there are animated corner marshals.

Enjoyment point of view? We all get enjoyment from different things - no one can really advise you on this. However GPL offers you a range of choices: -

1) The original 67 cars - perhaps the hardest to drive, but if you can drive a GTL Pantera you can drive most of the original GPL cars - start with the Cooper or the Eagle.

2) The 65 mod offers more forgiving tyres and half the power of the 67s. A good starting point for beginners and the models are brilliant.

3) The 69 mod offers a compromise - all the power of the 67s but with more forgiving grip and a bit of downforce from the wings.

4) There is also a 66 mod with a nice variety of cars to drive.

Last edited by David Wright; 12 March 10 at 18:04.
David Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 March 10, 21:13   #3
delta_lima
 
delta_lima's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Default

Interesting - I had no idea there had been any rFactor/GPL drama. Will definitely stay away from those, for sure.

Great perspective - thanks!
delta_lima is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 March 10, 01:31   #4
NEChris
 
NEChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 54
Default

If you like drive on ice go for GPL, if not try something else...
NEChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 March 10, 01:58   #5
Richie61
 
Richie61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEChris View Post
If you like drive on ice go for GPL, if not try something else...
2x
Richie61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 March 10, 02:47   #6
fpol
 
fpol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arlington, Va
Default

Hard to top David Wright's post. Addressing the ones directly above...GPLs driving model is, uhm interesting. It is 'difficult' in what i suspect is a non-realistic way, but not really impossible to drive. And definitely, the 'mod' seasons, 65/66 provide a much more (IMHO) 'realistic' feel to the tires.

It's really worth it thought to drive the original sim as a reference.

Dunno what your tolerance is for 'paying to play' but the Skip Barber car in iRacing is a SUPERB entry to open wheel racing. Still, to run a season requires membership, purchasing the car, and also quite a few tracks, but if you're willing, it's excellent as another option.
fpol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 October 11, 11:31   #7
brettg1234
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Default

The aforementioned Classics mod may have had a sketchy beginning, but its now quality plus the residual copied designs have been removed and the cars do look markedly different from GPL. I like both and in fact using V2.3 has meant I've been able to learn and appreciate GPL in a whole other way. There are now 3 different versions of the '67 series I know of on rFactor, with different physics, all inspired by GPL.
brettg1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 October 11, 11:52   #8
freejrs
 
freejrs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Shire
Age: 27
Default

The Classics mod is very good indeed. Not sure how realistic or not it is or isn't but it is certainly more believeable than GPL's '67 cars. Graphically it is totally different from GPL now......none of the original GPLEA stuff is there anymore so I don't even see how it is classed as an illegal conversion still.

Anyway if you want the same kind of thrills I suggest getting NetKar Pro for the Formula Ford 1600 and 1800 cars. Both have no wings and are a real handful to drive but are very rewarding and above all 100% accurate and realistic to drive.

Someone mentioned iRacing and the Skip Barber F2000 car.........yeah it's quite fun to drive but the physics and especially the tyre model is really awful. Pathetic infact. Don't pay these crooks any money when better quality content is available for a fraction of the price elsewhere or for free.

There are many decent open wheel mods for rFactor if you are not set on the 60's open wheel cars.

Try these....

GP79
CART Factor
CTDP 2006

CART Factor is unrivaled as the very best mod created for rFactor imo.

Also RACE 07 has some great open wheel cars with the F3000, Formula Masters and Formula Raceroom F1 style car.
freejrs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 October 11, 23:27   #9
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

You don't see how it is illegal. LMAO

You see the work was done prior to stealing it.
You know how many hours they spent just doing tacho needles ? lol

What, because he did not like to be told no it is okay, what a ingrate ( he ) lol

I go along with modders hacking GTL illegal for starforce/ online
I go along with GPLDemo 2004

But to just to Rip anything no permission and bag the sim it came from in the same breath ?

What a loser........... whatever he calls himself these days. lol
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 October 11, 23:32   #10
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brettg1234 View Post
The aforementioned Classics mod may have had a sketchy beginning, but its now quality plus the residual copied designs have been removed and the cars do look markedly different from GPL. I like both and in fact using V2.3 has meant I've been able to learn and appreciate GPL in a whole other way. There are now 3 different versions of the '67 series I know of on rFactor, with different physics, all inspired by GPL.

..and if you do not desist I will report you

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED to discuss ILLEGAL MODS HERE ! gesssus
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 October 11, 00:13   #11
Siggs
 
Siggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Essex
Age: 24
Default

I have always imagined what this mod might be like with more effort thrown into the car models. imho the physics and to some extent the sounds are there, it's just not so hot to look at.

EDIT: TO add on what Freejrs said, there are a few F3000/5000 mods out there for rFactor, for the 1970's, but apart from that I'd also mention the vintage Formula Vee mod. It's brilliant
Siggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 October 11, 00:39   #12
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Mate I have nothing against it other then the fact it was pilthered.

imho the work they have done to improve it is good.

Do not forget a 1967 scratch mod will one day emerge, I have no doubts of this, it was a defining year.

I breaking the rules now. lol

It is no different to ORSM, they scratch built Aussie tracks and Cars that got converted but unofficially accepted for online when people close to V8 wanted to rightfully expand into GTR#1 and leave F1Challenge behind but ORSM had their eyes fixed on rFactor yet to be released.

Their arcade V8Mania mod ( I call it ) lol is a test for a coin operated machine
but knowing that will not stop someone ripping them and throwing in GTR2.

So I can understand why long standing mod teams and people like me that
appreciate their work are disappointed.

All GPL modders even today give credit were due to GPLEA and it lifted me to see GTL acknowledge all Targa Florio teams on their Loader.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 October 11, 10:24   #13
tjc
 
tjc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Scotland
Default

Gpl all the way... I don`t really care how much they have tarted up their "mod"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurgeDriven View Post
What a loser........... whatever he calls himself these days. lol
tjc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 October 11, 12:52   #14
freejrs
 
freejrs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Shire
Age: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurgeDriven View Post
You don't see how it is illegal. LMAO
Well if all the original textures and models were replaced and everything else was made from fresh (as was claimed) then no I don't see how it is still considered illegal.

Personally I don't know what the facts are or care much if truth be told. It's an average mod at the end of the day that had potential to be really great.

I play neither GPL or the mod in question so all I will say is go buy NetKar Pro and experience a real simulation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurgeDriven View Post

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED to discuss ILLEGAL MODS HERE ! gesssus
Stop doing so then. Geez.
freejrs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 October 11, 22:16   #15
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freejrs View Post
Stop doing so then. Geez.
How about they stop ! ..then I won't ever start. lol

Every week somewhere they slip in a no permission GPL car or track well knowing they break the rules, like these people are not newbies, they know what they do which imo makes it that much worse when admin made it clear countless times.

In rFactor is a sticky thread like are they blind. ?
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 December 11, 00:13   #16
garyj36
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

There's a new '71 mod for Rfactor that is great. I think it is original. Grand Prix Legends is not that hard with steering/braking help and a good wheel and pedal. Get both
garyj36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 December 11, 01:24   #17
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by garyj36 View Post
Grand Prix Legends is not that hard with steering/braking help and a good wheel....

You would never use aids in GPL with a good wheel, it defeats the purpose.

It is only a afterthought for keyboard / direct input users
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 December 11, 01:39   #18
garyj36
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurgeDriven View Post
You would never use aids in GPL with a good wheel, it defeats the purpose.

It is only a afterthought for keyboard / direct input users
The point is that it's more doable than it's made out to be. I still have it installed and play it on windows 7. At the moment my control is a mungo gamer app on my Iphone. But I did have wheel and pedals once. Everyone should give gpl a twirl. Get both
garyj36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 December 11, 04:30   #19
buzard
 
buzard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Palmdale, CA
Age: 65
Default

There is an F1 1971 mod for rfactor that is nice. If you don't mind something less powerful check in the rfactor download section for st-dave's mods. Some very nice vintage mods. Lola T340 formula ford, 1976 Formula Atlantics, 76/78 F2 &1/&2 F5000. All are very well done.

GPL's original 67 cars are very slippy and slidy. 65 and 66 mods are better. Go to :

http://gpltd.bcsims.com/?ir=Mods

for the mods and installer to make GPL work on current computers.
buzard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9 December 11, 19:37   #20
Hitman_M3
 
Hitman_M3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Valencia, Spain
Default

GPL vs. rFactor from my point of view is easy to define: Aside from graphics, rFactor has a way more advanced engine (as you would expect, being newer and designed for more powerful computers) but GPL is simply one of those classic sims that somehow managed to hit the sweet spot ... it all was deliciously balanced and convincing, even if there were some terrible simplifications like the torque curve being flat, etc. Inmersion, atmosphere and many other details came together for a unique experience still worth playing today, but no, it can't be considered technically "better" than rFactor. But then again, a BMW 2002 ti isn't technically better than an E92 320i, and when it comes to pleasure of driving, the former beats the latter hands down (I know because I have an E92 3201)

That said, GPL cars always slided too much for my taste.
Hitman_M3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 December 11, 19:13   #21
tarnsman
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Default

GPL still beats rFactor.

When I play GPL 69 mod (or any version for that matter) with my G25 I feel like I am driving something that weighs 500kg sitting on springs and hard tires.
When I play the rFactor 71 mod I do get better tire feel, but I dont get any sense of mass from the car and the springs do not feel real at all.

GPL does mass transfer and inertia better than anything I have played since. rFactor does not have that grip/roll/release effect you get in a real car and GPL has that. Power and Glory for GTR2 has it, but god only knows how long it took them to do get it right. And the cars are still a bit too light and quick even in PnG.

rfactor is fine for modern super stiff aero cars of the modern era. When they try earlier stuff the cars are generally too light, too stiff and dont have enough inertia and mass to feel realistic.
tarnsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 December 11, 23:19   #22
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Well said tarnsman

I guarantee there are people right here can't fathom this.

Like I said to Gears you can buy a modern sim and be lapping decent in virtually a session or so. Straight off mid speed tracking is perfect and you can Sunday Drive around the circuit easy.

After that off course the learning curve gets steeper.

Speaking from a 1967 perspective I think that is what put some people off GPL.

It is not till you get to 2-3 seconds off the lap records imo you start to understand GPL.

Then you go negative / lap records and you feel good, then it sinks in you are still 60-90 seconds over 11 Circuits off the Aliens.

You think ah ...I will try a Gregor Huttu setup then wonder how he ever drove it.



So while it is dated and flawed and other sims are taking precedence it imo is unique and if you give it enough time it will reveal itself to you.

I know lots of people, even me, get to be real fast in sims and still dislike them.
I don't think I can say that about GPL.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 December 11, 23:24   #23
NEChris
 
NEChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 54
Default

Pointless to discuss GPL vs rFactor in a forum full of GPL fanboys, WOT
NEChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 December 11, 23:31   #24
vondutch51
 
vondutch51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia USA
Age: 39
Default

@Durge
My first exposure to GPL was reading an article in AutoSimSport about it back in 2004 or early 2005. (I think it was the first issue of ASS great mag BTW-RIP)
I was new to Sims having discovered them when googling for a Nascar game. So I was intrigued by GPL and the very next day found GPL and Nascar2K3 at a local thrift store and took home both titles for $10.00 USD. So back to my point, I read about this Huttu guy and said well I gotta try his setups. Lol I remember trying his V2 setups and not being able to make a single corner without spinning or going into a ditch etc. Frustrating but I was intrigued enough to continue. Today I still cannot hardly use his setups but I still plug away at it every once in a while. Biggest thing that helped me with GPL was tuning the FFB especially latency and getting my steering ratio right so that it wasn't so damned twitchy. Anyways reading your post triggered the memories. Still a great game. Can't really compare it to rfactor or other Sims as it is very different.
vondutch51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 December 11, 23:31   #25
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEChris View Post
If you like drive on ice go for GPL, if not try something else...

Which is what I explain in last post.

It is these people that say it is like ice get as far as ..... "Do Not Collect $200 Do Not Pass Go" .........then gave up.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 11, 01:19   #26
tarnsman
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Default

GPL even the original 67s do not drive like ice. They drive like cold hard bias ply tires, untill they get hot, then they drive like hot bias ply tires. Tires changed fundamentally in the 1970s and have been getting better ever since. in GPL you need at least 10 laps to get the tires warmed up, the game is designed to run full distance races -- 200 miles and more -- 100 laps at Monaco for example.

I am not a GPL fanboi, I am a fan however. I most frequently drive GTR2 actually because the cars are less demanding over short distances. GPL is challenging, but it is far from impossible and Huttu setups are not required. Aside from warming up the tires, most people leave the springs way too soft and use really challenging diff ratios. As F. Cevert said of Jackie Stewart "He set up the car to be very easy to drive".

If you put the effort into it, rFactor could be as good or better than GPL, but so far no one has done it for older cars. P&G is very close and they admit it will be better in V3.
tarnsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 11, 02:13   #27
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarnsman View Post
GPL even the original 67s do not drive like ice. .......

........you need at least 10 laps to get the tires warmed up
Exactly what I mean when people give up on it too soon.

Forget tyres just staying on the track for 10 laps and generating enough force to heat them is hard enough. hehehe

No you do not need Gregor *.set but as if you are not going to try one.

On setups Gears you be surprised, there is 100s in packs for all circuits/seasons.
Most other sims you be scratching to find one complete set for one car.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 11, 02:24   #28
gears
Donated
 
gears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Higgs Boson
Age: 46
Default

I just started playing GPL and it doesn't feel like ice at all on my G27. It feels really very nice. Using the H-gate and manual clutch, it's quite a challenge, but that's how it should be!
gears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 11, 02:30   #29
brabham67
 
brabham67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Federal Way, Washington, USA
Age: 38
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gears View Post
I just started playing GPL and it doesn't feel like ice at all on my G27. It feels really very nice. Using the H-gate and manual clutch, it's quite a challenge, but that's how it should be!
Your not going fast enough, LOL!! Me thinks I should give GPL another go. Last time I played it, I was using a Logi Black Momo. Now I wield a G27....
brabham67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 11, 02:58   #30
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brabham67 View Post
Your not going fast enough, LOL!!

Give him some time lol


Tell you what Gears I will give you a month to do Nords in under 8:30
( which is no where near fast IE: WR is sub 8 )

But you won't want to waste anytime driving elsewhere.

lol

Relative times in modern sim @Nords you would do in a day.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 11, 03:02   #31
gears
Donated
 
gears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Higgs Boson
Age: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurgeDriven View Post
Give him some time lol


Tell you what Gears I will give you a month to do Nords in under 8:30
( which is no where near fast IE: WR is sub 8 )

But you won't want to waste anytime driving elsewhere.

lol

Relative times in modern sim @Nords you would do in a day.
Dude, the thought of driving those cars on Nords sounds insane!
gears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 11, 03:14   #32
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gears View Post
Dude, the thought of driving those cars on Nords sounds insane!
Till you do Flugplatz in a 1967 you ain't done it......... lol

Nah stick with one circuit and one car you like.

Watkins Glen is ideal has bit of everything.
First time I ever nailed The Loop was like a Revelation.

edit:
btw: Do not get sidetracked with mods, they are easier to drive sure but if you wait
and get some decent laps in 1967 you will appreciate them more imo
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 11, 03:33   #33
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default GEARS @ Flugplatz

Attached Images
File Type: jpg GPL ring _0076.jpg (95.6 KB, 125 views)
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 11, 16:57   #34
NEChris
 
NEChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 54
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarnsman View Post
... rfactor is fine for modern super stiff aero cars of the modern era. When they try earlier stuff the cars are generally too light, too stiff and dont have enough inertia and mass to feel realistic.
Have you tried CSGT's WSC70 mod or Team Players' 55F1 (MB W196) mod in rFactor?
NEChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 11, 19:45   #35
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEChris View Post
Have you tried CSGT's WSC70 mod or Team Players' 55F1 (MB W196) mod in rFactor?
Quote:
Pointless to discuss GPL vs rFactor in a forum full of GPL fanboys, WOT

Your Words.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 11, 20:36   #36
tarnsman
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEChris View Post
Have you tried CSGT's WSC70 mod or Team Players' 55F1 (MB W196) mod in rFactor?
I have run CSGT WSC70 mod from the release as a regular part of my diet. I am interested in the 55 mod but have not tried it yet.

WSC70 is a great mod and a lot of fun, but it exemplifies what I am talking about. I think it is endemic to rfactor probably the gmotor engine itself, that the cars "feel" too light and unsubstantial. Like a good gust of wind would roll the car over. It is not a FBB issue. This has been an issue since the first Simbin GT mod for F1C. It is not as bad as it was, but in comparison, GPL has had and retains the edge when it comes to suspension dynamics, inertia and mass transfer.

Of course on track the car does not actually flip over in the wind, but that lack of mass modeling is present to one extent or another in all the gmotor titles I have used, once the car does not have modern levels of downforce. When driving modern F1 cars there is no problem it only is apparent when the wings come off. It is as if the basic model has torsion bar suspension and a few hundred pounds of downforce. But the static mass of the vehicle is not quite modeled right.

Try the the same or similar cars in Grand Prix Legends Sportscar Mod, rFactor CSGT and Power and Glory to see what I mean.
tarnsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 December 11, 21:29   #37
NEChris
 
NEChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 54
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurgeDriven View Post
Your Words.
Just one question, reply confirms my statement...
NEChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 December 11, 00:16   #38
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEChris View Post
Just one question, reply confirms my statement...

Show me one sentence were I compared them.


Go to rFactor forum and give your mods recommendations.


One thing for sure you will not see GPL drivers in rFactor forum carrying on.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 December 11, 10:57   #39
Chronus
 
Chronus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Local Group-Milky Way-Sun-Earth
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarnsman View Post
GPL still beats rFactor.

When I play GPL 69 mod (or any version for that matter) with my G25 I feel like I am driving something that weighs 500kg sitting on springs and hard tires.
When I play the rFactor 71 mod I do get better tire feel, but I dont get any sense of mass from the car and the springs do not feel real at all.

GPL does mass transfer and inertia better than anything I have played since. rFactor does not have that grip/roll/release effect you get in a real car and GPL has that. Power and Glory for GTR2 has it, but god only knows how long it took them to do get it right. And the cars are still a bit too light and quick even in PnG.

rfactor is fine for modern super stiff aero cars of the modern era. When they try earlier stuff the cars are generally too light, too stiff and dont have enough inertia and mass to feel realistic.
Interesting. The inertia bug notwithstanding, the absence of the feel you mention has nothing to do with the physics engine per se.

I have seen that observation thrown at rFactor, but people seem to to forget one thing: you can have über-sophisticated physics like we have in NetKar Pro, but if the values (for the car and tire parameters, that is) you plug in are not correct, the car will not behave properly.

For some reason, people neglect to integrate this notion into their cheerful criticism of isiMotor2 or rFactor.

Do the (proper) calculations for the cars and you'll end up with higher values for inertias than (for some reason) modders use. This alone changes everything.

Then, do the (proper) calculations for wheel/axle/brakes inertias, and you'll end up with higher values for its inertias. Behaviour further modified.

Apply correct spring rates and you'll see proper roll and suspension movement in general.

Finally, rework tires fully.To that effect, people should revisit the RSC threads by Bristow et al to understand the possibilities available for isiMotor2 tires.

Only then should people comment on rFactor physics not having the same feel as this or that sim.

Imagine you're rich (maybe you are, who knows). You hear all kinds of amazing things about the Lambo Aventador. You buy one. You soon discover it doesn't accelerate 0-100 kph in under 5s no matter how hard you try. And then you realize it is not stable on any corner. Would you think, "ah, it sucks, it is not as good as the 458 Italia", or would you rather take it back to the seller and report the problems?

Accepting a mod's physics as the standard for rFactor physics is absurd. Unless we're talking about something produced by someone like Niels...

Someone mentioned iRacing above. Yes, well, iRacing is the evolved son of GPL, and it shows. Badly.
Chronus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 December 11, 21:49   #40
Art-J
 
Art-J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Default

NEChris has some point. I've got both titles installed and drive both of them on regular basis. I think '71 and '55ers mods are actually pretty close to GPL with weight transfer feeling and soft suspension (soft compared to modern machinery, that is). 70CSGTs - well, depends on car. Other mods? I love the job Niels did with inertia, suspension and tyres in his Supra mod and can't wait to try his oldschool physics in the upcoming HistoriX 2.0!
Art-J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 December 11, 22:07   #41
jgf
 
jgf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Age: 60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronus View Post
.... iRacing is the evolved son of GPL, and it shows. Badly.
Actually iRacing evolved from N2k3, which was all new programming (and the reason Kaemmer forbade any mods when he retained the rights to it). GPL became N4 and that code stopped there (Vivendi retained that programming after disbanding Sierra).
jgf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 December 11, 22:13   #42
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

You think because the new ones has different cars it makes squat difference.

Go to rFACTOR FORUM READ THE STICKY POST
Oh that is why you post here you DONT DARE do it there.... LOL

Quote:
"No one here wants your Classic .....................Louie."
Trading Places.

DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 December 11, 22:34   #43
Chronus
 
Chronus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Local Group-Milky Way-Sun-Earth
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgf View Post
Actually iRacing evolved from N2k3, which was all new programming (and the reason Kaemmer forbade any mods when he retained the rights to it). GPL became N4 and that code stopped there (Vivendi retained that programming after disbanding Sierra).
Actually, iRacing and N2K3 are the evolved sons of GPL. Obviously, I'm not talking about the code itself (iRacing borrowed multiplayer and multibody code from NR2003, though by now most of it has been revamped extensively), but about the concepts/design/physics modelling ideas.

Regarding the code itself...Only Dave K. knows what went where, what code stopped here and there. Only him.
Chronus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 December 11, 03:29   #44
Kolbet
 
Kolbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Default

I raced both NR2003 and GPL. I think putting aside all arguments everyone knows in the end that GPL and NS2003 (which I sold, because it is worth a good bit of money and I regret) are serious simulations. Define serious? just watch videos of Nascar and old videos of F1 around 60s and 70s. Is all there.

I vote for GPL.
Kolbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 December 11, 06:29   #45
DurgeDriven
 
DurgeDriven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

You be crazy not to try it anyway.
Once you start lapping with F2 Enna it is pretty hard to stop.

GPL newbie will still die a few times on first angry lap no matter and F2 is imo
best handling and Enna is large runoff.........you still going to die.

No sim has a learning curve like it for me that is it's best feature
ie: the immersion and exhilaration you get when you finally work
it out and start believing in your ability.

I remember first day of GTR in Australia we ran Watkins Glen ( there was
tracks by then )

Germans came in and were blown away it was our first ever session.
That is how easy that was compared to GPL.

in rFactor classic all you need do is drive it like every other mod and you be as fast.
DurgeDriven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 December 11, 08:29   #46
Duncan Idaho
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Default

Gpl
Duncan Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 December 11, 01:08   #47
Kolbet
 
Kolbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Default

Doing four-wheel drifts in GPL is great. Once you learn the tricks is not so hard to keep going, to master the tracks is another story. But you will have a lot of fun.
Kolbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 December 11, 02:15   #48
jgf
 
jgf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Age: 60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronus View Post
...
Regarding the code itself...Only Dave K. knows what went where, what code stopped here and there. Only him.

As you wish.

I was there.
jgf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 January 12, 01:38   #49
Stu
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Age: 50
Default

kolbet, you have said it all right there! Doing four-wheel drifts in GPL is great...Thats what is bringing me back to GPL
Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 January 12, 11:42   #50
Chronus
 
Chronus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Local Group-Milky Way-Sun-Earth
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgf View Post
As you wish.

I was there.
Not as I wish, sir.

Only DK really knows, I stand by that.

However, any developer working with/for DK non-stop since GPL till recently would also know this. If that is your case, I stand corrected.
Chronus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:25.


Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

www.nogripracing.com 2003 - 2014
Page generated in 0.23362 seconds with 9 queries