Control Tyre for Mods

gravin · 25 May 10, 12:48

I have read that the tyre files can have simple changes made for width, diameter, and profile.

Is it possible then, to make a set of control tyres in different sizes to fit numerous car mods within certain classes based on say tyre files that are already in game?

For example - Some cars use Dunlop (R5s I think), Escort uses Avons slicks.....

If so then these files can used on the numerous mods that are currently WIP.

Pizzaman · 25 May 10, 19:56

It's very easy to make them yourself.
Just grab a tyre file from the open files,
open it and change diameter and width and all that.

You will find that they have the same slipcurves (matrix).
Except for slick tyres from GT-TC 76.

David Wright · 26 May 10, 16:55

Be aware though that changing the tyre width will not alter the grip. You will need to do this separately. However, your general point is true - if you want GTL mods to have a "GTL feel", perhaps the best way to do this is base your tyres closely on the GTL tyres, and extrapolate grip figures from the range of existing values.

gravin · 27 May 10, 11:09

Thanks Pizzaman and David.

This may be a future project...maybe for damusto if he is interested.

Pizzaman · 28 May 10, 07:30

He already knows how to f-around with it.
BTW try the Abarth TCR... I ff-d around with it too.

damusto · 9 June 10, 12:21

Hm this is very bad idea U know, each car has specyfic weight balance and sometimes other drive wheels, all this should affect many factors like:

LoadSensLat
LoadSensLong
LatPeak
LongPeak

LatCurve
BrakingCurve
TractiveCurve

PneumaticTrail
CamberLatLong
RollingResistance

Heating
WearRate

AISens
AIPeakSlip

OptimumPressureBase
OptimumPressureMult

BTW GTL is using common tires files. But this is not good option if U will ask me, any car need to have difrent tire files, and some times eaven few of them, depending on hdc variants.

David Wright · 9 June 10, 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by damusto

BTW GTL is using common tires files. But this is not good option if U will ask me, any car need to have difrent tire files, and some times eaven few of them, depending on hdc variants.

It only uses common tyres when the tyres fitted to the cars are the same. There are 25 different sets of tyres in GTLs physics so most cars have their own tyres. But the same tyre/wheel combination will have the same physics whatever car its fitted to, so if cars do happen to use the same wheel/tyre combination its right to use the same tyre physics.

damusto · 9 June 10, 18:22

I can agree only with 1st part David, with 2nd definitely not. This game physics is not like real physics, U have to calculate a lot of factors by your self in respect of each car weight, weight distribution, top speed, and driving wheels, becouse the game will not its becouse simplification, saving CPU.

David Wright · 9 June 10, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by damusto

...U have to calculate a lot of factors by your self in respect of each car weight, weight distribution, top speed, and driving wheels, becouse the game will not its becouse simplification, saving CPU.

Weight, weight distribution, top speed and driving wheels are not defined in the tyre files.

damusto · 9 June 10, 19:01

I did never say they are, what Im mean is, that some parameters of real liefe tires are strictly dependent from all this stuff, so U need to take that into account if U want to keep them realistic thats all. And thats why common tires are good only when cars have the same weight, weight balance, top speed and driving wheels.

BTW
If U want make them common put them in higher directory like race group and all cars will get them if U will ad this path to cas file

gravin · 10 June 10, 10:53

Thank you. This answers my questions.

I though that the physics engine applies tyre data independently, a bit like in real life - so that the other variables like suspension, engine, and other data in the HDC would affect how the tyres would behave and wear.

I had imagined that we might be able to create a control tyre (or tyres if we use more than one brand) in different sizes that could be used with cars that are specified the same sized tyre.

Thank you, now I know this isn't really possible.

David Wright · 10 June 10, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravin

Thank you. This answers my questions.

I though that the physics engine applies tyre data independently, a bit like in real life - so that the other variables like suspension, engine, and other data in the HDC would affect how the tyres would behave and wear.

It does.

Quote:

I had imagined that we might be able to create a control tyre (or tyres if we use more than one brand) in different sizes that could be used with cars that are specified the same sized tyre.

You can, and Simbin do exactly this in GTR, GTL and GTR2.

So you can either believe damusto, or you can believe Simbin. Your choice

damusto · 10 June 10, 20:50

Hm...
U don't need to believe me just open any physics book and read all about it.

David why do U write such things ? Really, I know that U know the game engine does NOT calculate many important things and U have to paste them ready. For instance, traction confident curves, and this is strongly dependent from starting load, and then speed which generating cornering force and some other factors in other cases, this is difficult to explain for me with my "English", same story with rolling resistance, only Crr is the same for some tire type, but any tire will have diffident RR value...this U can easy check even on wiki, first and only unknown factor that U have to paste in formula is load than U need constants Crr from table...
And the game don't ask U for Crr it ask for calculated RR
...why Simbin do not care about this, well I think they don't care much about the details, even so they have the best simulator, mostly because there in not much others...

But again if U will ONLY copy all this stuff from other tire files its better to have it in one...
...so all depends how realistic U want to be. And hou much time U want to work on your mod.

25 May 10, 12:48	#1
gravin Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nagoya Age: 42	Control Tyre for Mods I have read that the tyre files can have simple changes made for width, diameter, and profile. Is it possible then, to make a set of control tyres in different sizes to fit numerous car mods within certain classes based on say tyre files that are already in game? For example - Some cars use Dunlop (R5s I think), Escort uses Avons slicks..... If so then these files can used on the numerous mods that are currently WIP.

25 May 10, 19:56	#2
Pizzaman Minifreak & Muscleman Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Groningen Centre of the Universe	It's very easy to make them yourself. Just grab a tyre file from the open files, open it and change diameter and width and all that. You will find that they have the same slipcurves (matrix). Except for slick tyres from GT-TC 76.

26 May 10, 16:55	#3
David Wright Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: UK	Be aware though that changing the tyre width will not alter the grip. You will need to do this separately. However, your general point is true - if you want GTL mods to have a "GTL feel", perhaps the best way to do this is base your tyres closely on the GTL tyres, and extrapolate grip figures from the range of existing values.

27 May 10, 11:09	#4
gravin Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nagoya Age: 42	Thanks Pizzaman and David. This may be a future project...maybe for damusto if he is interested.

28 May 10, 07:30	#5
Pizzaman Minifreak & Muscleman Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Groningen Centre of the Universe	He already knows how to f-around with it. BTW try the Abarth TCR... I ff-d around with it too.

9 June 10, 12:21	#6
damusto Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Warsaw, Poland Age: 33	Hm this is very bad idea U know, each car has specyfic weight balance and sometimes other drive wheels, all this should affect many factors like: LoadSensLat LoadSensLong LatPeak LongPeak LatCurve BrakingCurve TractiveCurve PneumaticTrail CamberLatLong RollingResistance Heating WearRate AISens AIPeakSlip OptimumPressureBase OptimumPressureMult BTW GTL is using common tires files. But this is not good option if U will ask me, any car need to have difrent tire files, and some times eaven few of them, depending on hdc variants.

9 June 10, 18:22	#8
damusto Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Warsaw, Poland Age: 33	I can agree only with 1st part David, with 2nd definitely not. This game physics is not like real physics, U have to calculate a lot of factors by your self in respect of each car weight, weight distribution, top speed, and driving wheels, becouse the game will not its becouse simplification, saving CPU.

9 June 10, 19:01	#10
damusto Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Warsaw, Poland Age: 33	I did never say they are, what Im mean is, that some parameters of real liefe tires are strictly dependent from all this stuff, so U need to take that into account if U want to keep them realistic thats all. And thats why common tires are good only when cars have the same weight, weight balance, top speed and driving wheels. BTW If U want make them common put them in higher directory like race group and all cars will get them if U will ad this path to cas file

10 June 10, 10:53	#11
gravin Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nagoya Age: 42	Thank you. This answers my questions. I though that the physics engine applies tyre data independently, a bit like in real life - so that the other variables like suspension, engine, and other data in the HDC would affect how the tyres would behave and wear. I had imagined that we might be able to create a control tyre (or tyres if we use more than one brand) in different sizes that could be used with cars that are specified the same sized tyre. Thank you, now I know this isn't really possible.

10 June 10, 20:50	#13
damusto Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Warsaw, Poland Age: 33	Hm... U don't need to believe me just open any physics book and read all about it. David why do U write such things ? Really, I know that U know the game engine does NOT calculate many important things and U have to paste them ready. For instance, traction confident curves, and this is strongly dependent from starting load, and then speed which generating cornering force and some other factors in other cases, this is difficult to explain for me with my "English", same story with rolling resistance, only Crr is the same for some tire type, but any tire will have diffident RR value...this U can easy check even on wiki, first and only unknown factor that U have to paste in formula is load than U need constants Crr from table... And the game don't ask U for Crr it ask for calculated RR ...why Simbin do not care about this, well I think they don't care much about the details, even so they have the best simulator, mostly because there in not much others... But again if U will ONLY copy all this stuff from other tire files its better to have it in one... ...so all depends how realistic U want to be. And hou much time U want to work on your mod.