NoGripRacing.com

Go Back   NoGripRacing Forums > General Discussion > Computech

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 22 July 10, 03:14   #1
zild1221
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Default Free "FaceTracking" Guide

I am not the owner of any of this software, I just have done a lot of searching and tweaking to make this work properly. I figured I would share with you all.

Just a quick test I did.


This uses FaceAPI and another piece of software called FaceTrackNOIR. The FaceTrackNOIR software supports PPJoy and GlovePie so even if the game does not support FreeTrack or TrackIR and it does support analog looking, you can use this.

Screenshot of the software:

Files Needed:

1:FaceAPI
2:FaceTrackNOIR V1
3:FaceTrackNOIR Update
Additional Files:
PPJoy
GlovePIE

I recommend a camera that does 30FPS or better for this. Make sure all of your drivers all installed properly. Also, try to get the most even lighting on your face as possible. The more well lit side of your face WILL track better.

Retard-Proof Steps:
  1. Install FaceAPI
  2. Install FaceTrackNOIR
  3. Drag and drop the files from the update into where you installed FaceTrackNOIR

I will explain how to get this working with rFactor and ArmA2. This has been confirmed to work with many sim titles including GTR2/EVO and iRacing. Any game supporting analog look features will be able to benefit from this as well using PPJoy and GlovePIE.

For rFactor:
In the FaceTrackNoIR software follow these steps:
1. Set the "Tracker Source" to FaceAPI.
2. Set "Game Protocol" to Fake TrackIR
The rest of these settings will completely depend on your lighting and the camera you use. I will try to explain what each does.

"Smoothing" attempts to smooth out any jittery'ness when tracking. Mine is at 3
Leave "EWMA filter" checked.
"Neutral Zone" defines the area close to where your head sits center. The bigger the number, the more deadzone. This is helpful if you move around a lot. Mine is set to 7.

Sensitivities are next.
Yaw is how sensitive turning your camera is. This is the most useful for racing. Mine is at 150.

Pitch is up and down. I keep this lower than the Yaw. Mine is at 100.

X and Y are the axis relative to the game. In racing this controls how you move around the cockpit. I have those set to 150 and 150.

Personally I do not like the roll in games. I just leave that off. You can fiddle with it if you like that.

Red.Factors: This adjust the "reaction time" from what I have found. It makes everything happen snappier. I would not use any more than 50, the lower you go the better, although it could get jittery. I would suggest trying to find a good combo of "Smoothing" and "Red. factor". Mine is at 42.

Once you get all of this stuff set, click "Start" in the upper left. You should see your camera on the bottom appear. It will look for your eyes, nose, and mouth/jaw. If it finds them properly, you should see yellow lines around them. Note: Try your best to put your head as close to where it always is before you click "Start". It WILL track better.

For this to work properly in rFactor, you are going to need to adjust some files.

These files are both located in your "rFactor\UserData\YourName" folder.

I would suggest using NotePad++ for this.

First open up "YourName.plr". Go to LINE 235 "Glance Rate" Replace with:
Code:
Glance Rate="7.00000" // Rate to follow controller for glancing
Go to LINE 236 "Look UP/DOWN Angle" Replace with:
Code:
Look Up/Down Angle="2.00000" // Angle to look up/down (pitch) w/ controller in radians (= degrees / 57)
Go to LINE 239 "Glance Angle" Replace with:
Code:
Glance Angle="5.00000" // Angle to look left/right (yaw) w/ controller in radians (= degrees / 57)
Now in that same folder go to your "Controller.ini" file. THESE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT!!

Go to LINE 28 "HMD Pitch Exponent" Replace with:
Code:
HMD Pitch Exponent="1.25000" // Exponent to apply to pitch tracking.  > 1.0 makes tracking near-center slower, > 0 & < 1.0 makes tracking near-center faster.
Go to LINE 29 "HMD Yaw Exponent" Replace with:
Code:
HMD Yaw Exponent="1.25000" // Exponent to apply to yaw tracking.  > 1.0 makes tracking near-center slower, > 0 & < 1.0 makes tracking near-center faster.
Go to LINE 31 "HMD LEFT/RIGHT Exponent" Replace with:
Code:
HMD Left/Right Range="0.00000" // Range to apply to left/right tracking or camera controls (0.35 = max, -0.35 = reversed max)
Go to LINE 32 "HMD UP/DOWN Exponent" Replace with:
Code:
HMD Up/Down Range="0.00000" // Range to apply to up/down tracking or camera controls (0.35 = max, -0.35 = reversed max)
Now, you may want to tweak some of these settings to your own liking. These are just what I found to work well personally.

To make this work, you have to launch rFactor, then tab out and launch the software and start the capture.

Depending on you Res. and FPS, your processor could be taxed from 5-12%.

The best camera for the money you can get for this is the Playstation Eye. **Not the EYETOY** This does an easy 60FPS and is made for FaceTracking. It runs from $24 used to $40 new. Not that bad.

I don't believe I am forgetting anything.
zild1221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 July 10, 10:08   #2
loon
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Default

can also use Freetrack mate from here http://www.free-track.net/english/fr...chargement.php more or less same thing,works with numerous titles also,great forum also on how to make the ir tracking clip or cap
regards
loon is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 July 10, 16:32   #3
zild1221
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Default

Yep. I was going to use freetrack until I saw this. You do not need to worry about a dumb clip with batteries for LEDS or reflector things. Just turn on your camera and let this see your face.
zild1221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 July 10, 18:04   #4
MickeyMouse
 
MickeyMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio, USA
Age: 30
Default

Very interesting if it works well. I'll definitely play with this later.
MickeyMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 July 10, 11:25   #5
gord3001
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default

Anyone tried this with GTR2? or know how to install it for GTR2?
gord3001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 July 10, 11:57   #6
yetisaj
 
yetisaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK http://yetisaj.blogspot.com/
Age: 34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gord3001 View Post
Anyone tried this with GTR2? or know how to install it for GTR2?
Follow the instructions Zild posted for rFactor.
yetisaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 July 10, 12:04   #7
gord3001
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default

Thanks chap, I'm going to buy a webcam today and give this a shot.
gord3001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 July 10, 19:35   #8
dartguy
 
dartguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Louisville
Age: 46
Default

Post your results, please. Good Luck!
dartguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 July 10, 23:00   #9
zild1221
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Default

Wanted to let you guys know I got this to work with GTR2, RBR, and RaceOn today. It works exactly the same as rFactor, just changed a few values for sensitivity.
zild1221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 July 10, 07:46   #10
gord3001
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default

Yup just to confrim it works, I set my HMD settings to 2.00000 and played with the
programe settings and after a couple of hours it was working perfectly......
well maybe a little jittery. but i think that coz i only spent 15 on a webcam.

When i get payed next week im going to get the playstation eye camera as that is
the one that is reccomended.

Thanks again for the info zild1221 you have saved me a fortune, coz at some stage
I was going to get TrackIR for GTR2.
gord3001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 July 10, 18:27   #11
zild1221
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Default

No problem. I am discussing content for future releases with the creator currently so any feedback you guys have, let me know. This is just an early release and there is much to come.

For the time being, if you did not know, = re-centers your head and bkspc toggles it on and off. The next version those will be configurable.
zild1221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 July 10, 20:40   #12
il_lupo_mannaro
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default

Does it work with GPL?
il_lupo_mannaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 July 10, 21:36   #13
zild1221
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Default

GPL is supported by FreeTrack so if you change the protocol to Freetrack, it should work.
zild1221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 September 10, 23:58   #14
50ftElvis
 
50ftElvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: So Cal, U.S.A.
Default camera distance & vids

What is the maximum camera distance (in feet) between you and the monitor/tv?

I bought TrackIR a few years back and found it a bit dodgy in centering from 5-6 feet away. However, after I found out about the software update, I was amazed how much more enjoyment I've gotten out of GTR2. Although this is a free track thread, it would be great to see a few vids by those who have Face tracking software.

Here's a youtube vid of me just driving (not racing) and demonstrating the movement of the TrackIR. Shown is BariCZ's HD Zhuhai track for GTR2, along with his Alpine Stars gloves. Can't remember whose MC12 livery this is. Sorry
(was uploaded in 1080p, but the quality didn't transfer that great) About 8 feet away from my tv and still stays relatively centered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPCKQwSnYfk

50 ft. Elvis

Last edited by 50ftElvis; 2 September 12 at 17:14.
50ftElvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 October 10, 02:47   #15
Derek Speare
 
Derek Speare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: St Pete, Florida USA
Age: 50
Default

My efforts are directed at getting this to function properly with Shift, F1 2010 and Dirt2. My first plan is to have this output its data by PPJoy and then have those values set to the various views in the game. I have to do some testing, and I have opened a dialog with the author of this program. Face tracking is much less cumbersome than having some antenna on ones head. Thanks to the OP for putting this information up.

Derek
Derek Speare is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 January 11, 13:49   #16
kopyville
 
kopyville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: picka materna
Default

I just tried it, and it works in rfactor, it was sick, I need to get used to it first to drive as good as I usually do. But I got a question.. it lags most of the time, whats up with that? is there any fix for it or is it just my pc? Im running Q6600 2.4ghz, 4gb ram, ati 3870. any suggestions?
kopyville is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 January 11, 11:27   #17
snowy
Uploader
 
snowy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kopyville View Post
. it lags most of the time, whats up with that? is there any fix for it or is it just my pc? Im running Q6600 2.4ghz, 4gb ram, ati 3870. any suggestions?
I haven't tried this software yet but I used to use Freetrack. From my experience with that I would say that your PC isn't powerful enough to overcome the lag problem. The only thing that may help is a very good web cam knocking out 60fps.
snowy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 January 11, 22:52   #18
MickeyMouse
 
MickeyMouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio, USA
Age: 30
Default

I couldn't get this software to track my face very well. If I move my face more than about 25 degrees it starts to lose tracking. I guess it a combination of room lighting and my glasses. I've been using a 3 point headphone clip with FreeTrack and it works pretty well. It's great in DCS: Black Shark.
MickeyMouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 January 11, 15:54   #19
craigstys
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
Age: 55
Default Works terrific for free! Many thanks to this thread!

Stumbled across this thread while modding and want to give huge thanks to the OP who could not make this any easier to set up and understand this amazing little free toy.

I dusted off a 10 year old Phillips PCVC675 webcam which I believe is the very first PC perhip I've ever bought and has been dormant for years.

Fired right up. Ive got it at the back end of a 3 foot table staring straight at me and a G27 clamped to the front edge of it. Threw the table in front of my LCDTV. Cam stays below the line of sight on the screen.

Excellent performance with no drops. It is dramatic as mentioned in other posts here and has a small learning curve. Your results will vary, but that's the fun of it. You can tweak it to hell and back!

I prefer a subtle movement, inverted pitch and no roll. Inverted pitch means looking up and down are now corrected to head track in cockpit view. No roll stops the FOV from popping in and out and improves perrformance on cheap cams like mine!

I then set Smoothing to 4 and Neutral Zone to 7. I am now in love with this thing. Open wheel cars like CART Factor are the bomb! What I really like is that you must pay attention more to your own head movement, and when you do looking to apex is way more intuative. Even checking up mirrors.

Feels like a $300 racing perhip for free. Many thanks to the OP and others here for a great contribution. What a pleasant suprise over morning coffee for me!

I'm now going to get it working on GTR2 and even NR2003 (supported!) and report back on those. If anyone gets this working on NFS Shift please contribute. That one sounds hard.

Edit! Works on NR2003 and NFS Shift with v1.4. Older version here is fine for rfactor/ GTR2.

Last edited by craigstys; 19 January 11 at 13:37.
craigstys is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 January 11, 16:05   #20
kopyville
 
kopyville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: picka materna
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowy View Post
I haven't tried this software yet but I used to use Freetrack. From my experience with that I would say that your PC isn't powerful enough to overcome the lag problem. The only thing that may help is a very good web cam knocking out 60fps.
lol man thats weird, every game I've bought and played on this pc, was played on maximum graphic settings, except for crysis and nfs shift. I remember this pc when I bought it 2 years ago, it was one of the most bad ass pc's out, now you get a looott better pc for the same price. oh well
kopyville is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 January 11, 18:56   #21
craigstys
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
Age: 55
Default rfactor eats CPU-clock it up!

Kopyville- rFactor and this little program equals 3.0ghz C2D or higher. Take it from me who's done years of GTR2 and this. I am clocking an old E6420 for all it's worth now. 3.4ghz and a bigger fan. Runs it OK even with the cheapest and oldest webcam ever.
craigstys is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 January 11, 01:29   #22
kopyville
 
kopyville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: picka materna
Default

thanks for the info! well Im not sure how much I can OC my Q6600 before I need a new fan. and Im not in the mood for buying a new fan, and if I do that, I have to get a new psu, so it turns out a little bit expensive. Then when I've got my hands on a new psu I can also get myself a new graphic card.. and whoops there u have a lot of money into the pc agian.. I guess I'll have to just drive without the face tracking and run the pc for what its worth before its had its days
kopyville is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 17 January 11, 02:51   #23
candychris
Uploader
 
candychris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Norway
Age: 27
Default

I couldnt get it to work
candychris is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 January 11, 13:32   #24
craigstys
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
Age: 55
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kopyville View Post
thanks for the info! well Im not sure how much I can OC my Q6600 before I need a new fan. and Im not in the mood for buying a new fan, and if I do that, I have to get a new psu, so it turns out a little bit expensive. Then when I've got my hands on a new psu I can also get myself a new graphic card.. and whoops there u have a lot of money into the pc agian.. I guess I'll have to just drive without the face tracking and run the pc for what its worth before its had its days
I've hit 3.0 ghz on the stock fan and my original 500W PSU. Mu new fan was $12. Just for insurance.
craigstys is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 January 11, 12:52   #25
Stigasawus
 
Stigasawus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Drivers Seat,Australia
Age: 68
Default

Hey zild, I got an eyetoy camera a while back with the best intentions but life got in the way & havent done any more. It was on a recommended list somewhere, is it a problem child?
I hoped to go motion sim soon & had ideas of LED projectors on lightweight wiiide screen, & last stupid idea was 1 projector on top of a helmet (cant be worse than G forces! & they are small) with tracking so I can look around as much as real in-car.If you stop laughing, how crazy is this idea. Like to think its possible & all I could think is where the "light" is shining versus what the camera will see...wil I kill/blind it. Was thinking IR LED tracking...same question applies.
Almost chicken to air this one but got brave when I saw your thread!
Stigasawus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 January 11, 12:11   #26
Stigasawus
 
Stigasawus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Drivers Seat,Australia
Age: 68
Default

Done it again, scared everyone off! Thought I'd have a solution waiting tonight but youre all either died laughing, thought I wasnt serious, dont know the answer or are working on a serious technical solution. Yeah thats it, of course, the diagrams & formulas take time! Dont take too long I'm getting older. dont make me buy more stuff that wont work but still has to get past the wife!
Stigasawus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 March 11, 18:19   #27
Jubu
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Default

Oh No ... !!

FaceApi says :
failed to read friendly name:ERROR_FILE_NOT_LOADED

and FaceTrackinNoIR:
failed to register camera category:unspecified error!

any help ?
Jubu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 March 11, 12:35   #28
juhiz
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Default

how i run this with rbr.do i need ppjoy?
juhiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 July 11, 08:03   #29
borris33
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK - Dunstable
Age: 49
Default

I just wanted to bump this thread. I know it's quite old, but I think there are a lot of people who could be enjoying some very cheap head tracking in their sim racing, even if it just stops a few crashes from people not having the luxury of being able to see that car along side them.

First off, I have been using TrackIR for years, and could never drive without it now. Well that is until now, I am using FaceTrackNoir. It works just as good for me as TrackIR does/did.

I first tried this software about 2 weeks ago, I did not have the best results, but before I gave up, I thought I should test another WebCam. I was using a Microsoft HD 3000HD Life cam. Very poor results. So I had read that the Playstation 3 Eye camera was now working on PC's with some drivers someone has written.

I installed the drivers, the PS3 Eye and then tested FaceTrackNoir, and it was night and day better. SO much better that I have the same tracking as I do with my TrackIR.

I wanted to share how good it is, so that others can enjoy it. At the moment it seems to be very few people actually using this software.

I would make sure if you are going to give it a go, to go buy a PS3 Eye, I picked one up for 10 including shipping from Play.com, used, but came as new.

Buy a PS3 Eye.

Download the CL Eye Platform Driver from here -
http://codelaboratories.com/downloads/

Download FaceTrackNoir -
http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net...s/download.htm

And enjoy what all the TrackIR users have for years, for next to no cost.
Without having to wear a hat or LEDS strapped to your Headphones etc.

One thing I would say, if you have not used head tracking before.
It takes a while to learn what the "curves" are, and how to adjust them so when you move your head, you get the desired results in game.
Stick with it, and if you do have any issues, make a post, and you will get help.

Friendly Bump .
borris33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 July 11, 08:10   #30
borris33
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK - Dunstable
Age: 49
Default

Just a quick note, I would not try to do this if you have a really old system. Dual Core CPU at least I would think. It used about 16% on a Quad Core.
So I would imagine that FTNoir plus a game running, would kill the frame rate of a 10 year old system.
borris33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 July 11, 15:41   #31
borris33
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK - Dunstable
Age: 49
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kopyville View Post
lol man thats weird, every game I've bought and played on this pc, was played on maximum graphic settings, except for crysis and nfs shift. I remember this pc when I bought it 2 years ago, it was one of the most bad ass pc's out, now you get a looott better pc for the same price. oh well
I will take stick my neck out here and say that it is the webcam you are using, as I had the exact same issue with the movement lag. It vanished when I swapped to the PS3 Eye, smooth as butter/trackir.

This is where I picked one up, in the UK. Used from 9.98. Free delivery. New is only 18.

http://www.play.com/Games/PlayStatio...rlrefer=search
borris33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28 July 11, 20:05   #32
gears
 
gears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Higgs Boson
Age: 49
Default

This is awesome. I've got it working with the Race series and I can't believe I ever drove without it.

It's a whole new experience. Really worth trying if you've been thinking about head tracking for racing but don't want to deal with batteries and LED's.

Btw, I'm using an HP HD webcam I got for $30.
gears is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 July 11, 02:41   #33
bobste
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Default

Failed to initialize APISCope: Unspecified Error. New system, too with Rocketfish HD camera.
bobste is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 24 August 11, 19:24   #34
mrpowcz
 
mrpowcz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Cze/Germany
Age: 27
Default

So I bought this ps3eye, camera itself works fine but I can't get facetracknoir.exe to run. It throws quite generic r6030 c++ error. I tried some suggestions from googling like cleaning registers, installing proper visual c++ and .NET framework 4.0, running it as admin, running in compatible modes.. nothing helps. I'm running windows 7 64bit. If anybody encountered this problem I'd be glad for any help as currently the cam is useless for me, it's not really that great as a classic webcam..

edit: apparently i was using bad version of something. Facetrack now works, let's go configuring

Last edited by mrpowcz; 24 August 11 at 20:49.
mrpowcz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 5 September 11, 20:35   #35
jostheboss
Uploader
 
jostheboss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Betuwe, Holland
Age: 42
Default

Are there guys out there how are still using this program with GTR2 ???
jostheboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 6 September 11, 01:16   #36
AndreiRS
 
AndreiRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Porto Alegre - Brasil
Age: 28
Default

Hm I will try it tomorrow I think, most because of FSX. Should work too.
AndreiRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 September 11, 18:17   #37
ivpav
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

Failed to register camera category: unspecified error - Help please how can i fix it?
ivpav is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11 September 11, 22:19   #38
AndreiRS
 
AndreiRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Porto Alegre - Brasil
Age: 28
Default

http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net...nownissues.htm
AndreiRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 September 11, 08:08   #39
ivpav
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

Thanks!
ivpav is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 14 September 11, 21:20   #40
AndreiRS
 
AndreiRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Porto Alegre - Brasil
Age: 28
Default

AndreiRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 February 12, 20:18   #41
il_lupo_mannaro
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default

Does anybody use it with GPL?
Can you post your settings?
Thx in advance mates
il_lupo_mannaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 7 November 12, 18:44   #42
Xyzeto
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Default

I wonder will this work together with the Nvidia 3d vision ? gonna try later...
Xyzeto is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 22 January 13, 17:31   #43
DWI_TheNastyOne
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Default

Not sure what the problem is. Program fires up fine. tracks my face super smooth. But its like the program wont enter the game.
I Start FTNIR. Face API Fake TrackIR. Hit start and it starts tracking my face. But when i go into IRacing nothing happens?
w7 - X9650 Intel Duocore Quad Core Extreme. 8gb ddr3 Tracer ram. EVGA GT640 2 gb
Logitech C510 HD Webcam
Any insight would be great.

**EDIT**
Just tried it on Eurotruck Sim 2 and it works fine. Little touchy. But tracks.
Could it be cause IRacing is a 64bit?

Last edited by DWI_TheNastyOne; 22 January 13 at 17:44.
DWI_TheNastyOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:19.
Home - Top

Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

www.nogripracing.com 2003 - 2017
Page generated in 0.10792 seconds with 8 queries