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Old 19 February 11, 23:07   #1
barry
 
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Default GTR2 Reborn AI Template

Hello all.

I have made a personal decision to release the AI Template for the default GTR2. Real life is pushing the release of the Reborn project further away from the designated release date, and i feel personally obliged to give the community something, something that proves the Reborn project can deliver on what has been indicated in the Reborn Project thread.

This AI Template is only one part of the whole Reborn Project. The physics work of the project has (IMHO), without doubt, brought racing to a whole new level. My admiration for Chronus's diligent work is without boundary, and coupled with the AI Template, will provide a vastly better off-line racing experiance than any official ISI based game release has ever done.

[This AI Template does not contain the Reborn physics proper].

The contents of this file requires a complete fresh install of GTR2. Any other modifications, tweaks, or fixes to the physics or AI of GTR2, will probably have a negative effect. These AI adjustments to your install (and a couple of lines of .PLR changes), are tailored for the default GTR2.

Additional add-on tracks, whilst may be adequate for on-line racing, may prove less than satisfactory for off-line racing, in which case further work to the tracks may be required.

The contents of what i call the 'AI Template', are open and can be perused at will. Everything you see presented within the files, are the result of a purely logical approach.

As i said earlier, this is only part of the Reborn Project, but on it's own, will provide the community with i hope, what the community has been denied in a released game, that is a competant, and challenging AI.

I must add that any headaches or increased stress levels through the use of this AI Template, may require medical attention and not combustable attention on these forums.


Regards Barry [Member of IRG]
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File Type: rar Default GTR2 AI Template V1.0.rar (646.0 KB, 910 views)
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Old 19 February 11, 23:10   #2
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Thanks Barry, I'll give it a go tomorrow
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Old 20 February 11, 00:52   #3
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trying now
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Old 20 February 11, 12:12   #4
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Something i forgot to mention is that the line in your .PLR -

Vehicle Specific AI Setups="1"

Should be changed to -

Vehicle Specific AI Setups="0"

This is because the AI setups (.svm) for each vehicle, still has the old brake pressure settings in them which is too low for the AI. You can either find/rename all references to -

BrakePressureSetting=20

Into -

BrakePressureSetting=80

or change the Vehicle Specific AI Setups="0" line.

My mistake for not including this in the ReadMe file.

Regards Barry
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Old 20 February 11, 16:30   #5
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Thanks, a honorable job
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Old 20 February 11, 17:13   #6
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So this file need to upgrade GTR2's AI? I can play default GTR2 with new AI?
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Old 20 February 11, 18:10   #7
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Yes. This file will replace the default GTR2 AI

Regards Barry
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Old 20 February 11, 18:12   #8
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Is this normal that when i tried your AI templates, the braking power of my car significantly diminished? It's unplayable now...

(I had the Von Dutch Ai mod, by the way.)
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Old 20 February 11, 18:25   #9
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Did you do a fresh install, meaning no other mods which include Von Dutch's AI mod. There will be very little braking power for the 1st part of a lap because the brakes are cold. This is normal both in the real world and in the AI Template.

Are you using a setup you have previously made? You may need to check the setup in the garage to see if that is also the reason your brakes are low.

Hope this helps

Regards Barry
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Old 20 February 11, 18:37   #10
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Hi, Barry. Thanks for this early release of the AI template.

I have a question about your add-on track recommendation. btw, I'm only doing off-line racing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
Additional add-on tracks, whilst may be adequate for on-line racing, may prove less than satisfactory for off-line racing, in which case further work to the tracks may be required.
I've noticed on a few add-on tracks that the existing AI will slow down unnecessarily in a few sections. For example, there's a left-right sweeping combination on Watkins Glen where acceleration is definitely what all cars should do, but the AI cars use their brakes at one point where they really shouldn't, and this makes close racing difficult through there.

To fix this, I've changed the wp_event settings for that section of the track and now the AI drive much more realistically through those curves and don't hit their brakes.

Will the AI template affect a tweak like this to a track? In other words, do you think the AI would now do something "odd" through that section, such as speeding up too much? And if so, would it be best to revert back to the track's original .aiw file?
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Old 20 February 11, 19:00   #11
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The AI should drive as normally as the path will allow them to. If the path is smooth and clear, the track should present no problems for them. The AI drivers are much more closely aligned, which means no widely different performances like with the defaults.

Many of the add-on tracks have been converted without much thought to AI ability, they were converted to suit on-line racing. Now we have a situation where the AI can show where tracks have problems. MoSport is a favourite of mine, but there is one kink on the inside apex at the crest of the uphill run that has never been addressed, it doesn't matter for on-line racing, but the AI invariably run over this kink and creates problems for themselves.

I'm making an AI Template for the NAGP ALMS V4.0 mod. Most tracks are AI usuable, but a couple have problems. One track is Long Beach, at race start, between turns 2-3 a bottleneck is created. Again with on-line racing there is not a problem, but off-line with 37 AI cars there is

It really would be great to see add-on tracks re-visited to provide a better AI racing. Perhaps there is a track guy in the community that would kindly take up the challenge to help the community.

Regards Barry
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Old 21 February 11, 07:55   #12
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Hi all. Just a few pointers...

One is able to "tweak" the AI "ability" to one's own liking in order to provide for an even closer and more challenging racing experience by paying attention to the following lines in one's PLR file:

AI braking ability - influenced by the lines l AI Brake Power Usage="0.98000" l and l AI Brake Grip Usage="0.97000" l. If the AI brakes too late for your liking, decrease these values. If they brake too early, increase these values.

AI cornering ability - influenced by the line l AI Corner Grip Usage="0.93000" l. Likewise, if the AI corner too fast, decrease this value and if they slow you up too much, then increase this value.

NOTE!!!!!! - make small changes to these numbers! Barry has provided the recommended values in the readme. Tweak to your satisfaction.

Another means by which to "manipulate" the pace of the AI is the AI difficulty slider. Be warned though, changing this value has an overall effect on lap times. ie. increasing difficulty results in the AI cars will be quicker throughout a lap, with later braking, faster cornering, acceleration and top speeds. THEREFORE, it is necessary to realize that these values are all linked to each other. This all being said it is clear that one can tweak the AI to one's own specific pace.

So please, take note of what is stated here before saying that the AI is "too slow" or "too fast", since one can turn the AI into James Mays or Stiggs...

Have fun and enjoy!
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Old 21 February 11, 07:58   #13
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With regards add-on tracks: unfortunately many add-on track AIWs are edited to suit other mods. Therefore one often finds "problems" with the AI through certain sections. The only way to fix this is to edit the AIW of the track to compensate. Unfortunately, knowledgeable AIW editors (people, not programs) are very rare...

I echo Barry's sentiments: If there is someone out there that knows his/her way around AIWs, please, pretty please, help us out...
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Old 21 February 11, 08:21   #14
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Hi, Barry! How these AI templates change default AI skill? It has affected exe file and isi programmed-code or it only changes plr, hdc and other files like AI mod by vondutch??
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Old 21 February 11, 09:43   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
I'm making an AI Template for the NAGP ALMS V4.0 mod.
That is great news since the current AI for that mod is a total mess. I will of course also try out your update for the default game although I already have a pretty well functioning AI for it.

Quote:
MoSport is a favourite of mine, but there is one kink on the inside apex at the crest of the uphill run that has never been addressed, it doesn't matter for on-line racing, but the AI invariably run over this kink and creates problems for themselves.
I too really like Mosport but find the biggest problem with it being that during wet conditions some of the cars always crashes going into the Esses and therefore never complete a timed qualifying lap, leading to a randomized grid for the race and an unplayable race weekend.

It would indeed be great if someone with aiw editing skills would have a look at the 12 tracks relevant for the ALMS mod.
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Old 21 February 11, 10:01   #16
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Hi. Basically what this Template does is to give 'all' the AI drivers the ability to win a race. The biggest problem with ISI based AI, is that it restricts certain drivers because they did not perform (for whatever reason), during one race in a season. Even though a driver may perform less than satisfactorily in certain races, he is still more than good enough to be in the race in the first place. Also AI races are quite predictable. You only need to look at the driver stats to realise who will be good, and who will be less than capable.

The adjustments are fully open to the community to look at. The exe has never been (and never will be), decompressed, reversed engineered, or the contents of the exe being taken into account for any AI Templates i produce.

The AI coding is good enough to begin with, it only takes a logical approach to bring the best out of them. Real life contains driver errors and racing incidents, and hopefully this can be taken into account when racing against them.

The AI Template contains adjustments to the following -

.DMG // Damage
.HDC // Physics
.RCD // Drivers
.ENG // Engines

If there is any doubt to the Templates effect on the default install, it's easy enough to make a copy of GTR2 and test the Template in a safe enviorment.

I hope this helps.

Regards Barry
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Old 21 February 11, 11:08   #17
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Ok. But main problem of AI by ISI is what AI see player's car very bad and then it push into my car. It's very big problem when I have long close race with AI and defeat my position from attacks of AI. So then AI often make stupid mistakes and pushed into my car when it tries to overtake me.
It's really big problem in gtr2 and especially in rfactor. In rfactor it's terrible and unplayable.
Sorry for my bad english
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Old 21 February 11, 11:35   #18
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Hi. No problems with your language my friend. As a community we can understand what others are saying because we have a mutual interest in our hobby.

The rear ending of the AI has pretty much stopped with this Template, and they will only rear-end by accident, not on purpose. Part of the reason they did this is because of the wrong interpretation of the brake pressure and setting in the .HDC. Syntactically it is correct, but actual usage proves otherwise. There are other factors also involved in the rear-ending, but as i said, it's almost stopped now.

rFactor.........

I am making a Template for the rFactor Eduracers mod, and so far have stopped most of the rear ending in that mod. The AI is challenging and not totally stupid, but my work is still ongoing in this.

Regards Barry
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Old 22 February 11, 02:06   #19
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first thing i saw : When your brakes are cold, the braking effiency is greatly reduced.

second thing I saw with that template is when you collide with an Ai Car, it's not like you're hitting a brick wall anymore.
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Old 23 February 11, 01:03   #20
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Hi Barry!

I just converted your AI template to the P&G mod and it work's wonderfully! I've tried it on both original and addon GTR2 tracks and I must say that the racing is much more competitive and intense.Even with a field of multiple class cars i have often found myself in 3 wide racing and their cornering "instincts" are both "human like" and competent. thanks to you and the team for a job well done!!



Terry
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Old 23 February 11, 08:25   #21
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Whilst i have GTL, i'm not really a fan of the old cars. I used to own a Cortina (with the crossflow engine), and a Mini which i jammed an austin 1300 engine into it, they were the cars to be seen in waaayyy back in the day.

I'm pleased that the template works for the P&G mod though, that is excellent news. Did the EngineBrakeMapping values convert ok? If you want, give me a PM and we can discuss it

Regards Barry
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Old 23 February 11, 12:40   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry abitz View Post
Hi Barry!

I just converted your AI template to the P&G mod and it work's wonderfully! I've tried it on both original and addon GTR2 tracks and I must say that the racing is much more competitive and intense.Even with a field of multiple class cars i have often found myself in 3 wide racing and their cornering "instincts" are both "human like" and competent. thanks to you and the team for a job well done!!



Terry
Can you share with us your work, or tell us how you have made the adjustements.

Thanks

JB57
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Old 23 February 11, 13:23   #23
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What recommended AIrealism value is for good racing with this Templates??
Thanks
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Old 23 February 11, 14:32   #24
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@ JB57...

The Reborn Project team are producing a complete manual which we will be including with the Reborn Project. It includes all aspects of our work and how we arrived at the results. Hopefully this transparancy will help others to further their own projects.

The AI Templates are only one part of the Project, but as you have kindly reported, the results are quite significant.

I'm making a personal template for a mod in rFactor. In testing i have raced for 1 hour with 40 cars containing 3 different classes at Long Beach, with only a few DNF's at the end. That was really satisfying but exhausting at the same time, because of the level of intensity of the AI.

@ marianf1...

All the work on the AI Templates were done using the game defaults. I 'think' it's 100% The AI are 'tuned' (for want of a better word), to have a 2% chance of making an error over the whole race session, so you need to have a good rest before

Regards Barry
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Old 23 February 11, 14:59   #25
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Thanks barry. How can I get your rfactor's template? I want to test it too
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Old 23 February 11, 15:50   #26
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Hi. The rFactor AI template i have done is for the Eduracers mod. This is a personal project a.t.m. I have contacted the guys who created it, and i'm waiting their feedback before i go any further.

Sorry i can't release it yet, but will hopefully hear from them soon.

Regards Barry
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Old 23 February 11, 19:43   #27
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Hello again Barry!

Yes the engine brake mapping values converted with no problems.The only things I changed from your AI template were a:in my plr file I changed the AI brake and grip power usage from your suggested .8000 to .9000 (At certain corners of different tracks the AI were braking to early) and b: In the talent files i changed the crash value to 0.0 for all drivers.(I like all my competition to remain on the track for the entire race!!)Thanks again Barry and to your team for making a great mod even better!!



Terry
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Old 23 February 11, 20:45   #28
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Hi JB57!

Yes I would be happy to share with you how I converted the AI template to the P&G mod.I should let you know first of all that I usually race against 50 AI opponents and I like my racing close and intense,were I'm fighting for every corner on every lap.First of all make the necessary changes in your plr file as mentioned by Barry in the template readme.(You may need to up the AI brake and grip power usage if they are braking too early for your liking.)
Open up the teams folder and you will see 24H,GT,and NGT.Open up anyone of these(I opened up the NGT folder.)and you will see a list of teams.Open up anyone of these(I opened up the Porsche 996 GT3 RS Teams.)and you will see a list of files.The only files we are going to convert are the dmg and eng files.(DO NOT USE the tire files otherwise P&G is no longer P&G!)Open up one of the P&G team folders and then one of the car files and you will find an dmg and eng file.Rename these files in order to save them and then drag and drop the AI template eng and dmg files into your P&G car folder.Repeat this for all of your P&G car folders.(IT takes less time than you think.)
Next open up the AI template talent and then GT car folder and you will see a list of names. Now for me I choose a driver with excellent driver skills.(Henrik Roos)I then took his file(Starting with //DRIVER STATS) and copied and Pasted it over my P&G drivers stats.(takes about 15 min to do all the drivers in P&G2.1)
Then start racing!! You will notice a HUGE DIFFERENCE in how much better a race your going to have.Hope this was a good enough explanation for you.



Terry
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Old 23 February 11, 20:55   #29
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If I reinstall GTR2 and install this AI template and then download the ALMS4.0 mod, what effect will this AI template have on the ALMS mod?
Also, since both mods suggest fresh installs, in which order should I install them?
Thanks for the help.
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Old 23 February 11, 21:16   #30
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Hi Terry. I glad it's worked out for you There are differences between mods, so i usually make adjustments to each one, so as to bring about a 'standard' result. Of course everyone, like mods, is different, so fine-tuning may be necessary. As you have found, it's only a couple of constants that need changing to suit the user.

@ GTRacer48....

This AI Template effects only the default GTR2 install, any other mod 'should' have it's own physics. The ALMS4.0 mod (a new patch is available on NAGP site), has it's own physics so they will not be effected. A seperate AI Template is needed for the ALMS V4.0 mod (which is still w.i.p).

I don't think it will make any difference whether the Template or ALMS mod is installed first, as they are seperate from each other.

Hope this helps.

Regards Barry
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Old 23 February 11, 21:26   #31
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I tried the ai and I must say that it works very good. The only thing that I'm not liking is the fact that the AI continue to speed up after a couple of laps. I can understand that with cold tires they are slower but the difference is still to big. Maybe you can change something to low the grip on cold tires for the player to make a more similar performance during the first laps.
In any case I can't wait to see the reborn project completed!
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Old 23 February 11, 22:07   #32
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Hi Asio. One of the oldest complaints users had/have, is the ability to race up one side of the grid before the first corner. It's possible to gain upto 10 places (depending on the track) from starting last. This happens with every ISI based game.

With GTR2, a cold tire entry was placed in the Talent files, this did what you have asked about, it slowed the AI down at race start for a certain length of time, but the problem is that whilst the idea is sound, the user can adjust his/hers setup to still beat the AI to the first corner.

It was decided during our project, to eliminate that as much as we could, and the only way was to stop the AI cold tires entry in the Talent files.

We have removed as many restriction as possible to the AI, so the AI's performance is as close to the user as we could make them. As the tires heat up (as well as the fuel load getting lower), the AI will get faster, and this is a function of the AI doing what they should do. The users tires are also getting hotter (and fuel load getting lower), so the racing 'should' remain constant between the AI and the user.

The only way to cure this (for you), is to enable the cold tire entries in the AI's Talent files.

I Hope this helps

Regards Barry
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Old 24 February 11, 08:55   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry abitz View Post
Hi JB57!

Yes I would be happy to share with you how I converted the AI template to the P&G mod.I should let you know first of all that I usually race against 50 AI opponents and I like my racing close and intense,were I'm fighting for every corner on every lap.First of all make the necessary changes in your plr file as mentioned by Barry in the template readme.(You may need to up the AI brake and grip power usage if they are braking too early for your liking.)
Open up the teams folder and you will see 24H,GT,and NGT.Open up anyone of these(I opened up the NGT folder.)and you will see a list of teams.Open up anyone of these(I opened up the Porsche 996 GT3 RS Teams.)and you will see a list of files.The only files we are going to convert are the dmg and eng files.(DO NOT USE the tire files otherwise P&G is no longer P&G!)Open up one of the P&G team folders and then one of the car files and you will find an dmg and eng file.Rename these files in order to save them and then drag and drop the AI template eng and dmg files into your P&G car folder.Repeat this for all of your P&G car folders.(IT takes less time than you think.)
Next open up the AI template talent and then GT car folder and you will see a list of names. Now for me I choose a driver with excellent driver skills.(Henrik Roos)I then took his file(Starting with //DRIVER STATS) and copied and Pasted it over my P&G drivers stats.(takes about 15 min to do all the drivers in P&G2.1)
Then start racing!! You will notice a HUGE DIFFERENCE in how much better a race your going to have.Hope this was a good enough explanation for you.



Terry
Many thanks to you and Barry, it's clear.

JB57
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Old 24 February 11, 16:06   #34
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Barry do you think that setting the line
// RaceColdBrainMin=0.98
to 1 I can eliminate the speed-up effect maintaining the ai on a more smooth speed also during the first laps?
Another question, I would like to make some more close race with more fight (which is possible thanks to your fantastic settings). Do you think that I can obtain this goal by using the same value in all the talent files of the Ai drivers involved in the race?
Thank you
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Old 24 February 11, 16:33   #35
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Hi.

RaceColdBrainMin=0.98
RaceColdBrainTime=120

The RaceColdBrainMin=0.98 is the level below what the AI difficulty is set at. If the AI difficulty is 100%, and the RaceColdBrainMin=0.98, that means the AI will race at 98% difficulty, for the amount of time the next line is set at, which is RaceColdBrainTime=120 (120 seconds). If you set RaceColdBrainMin=1.00, they will be at 100%, and therefore, no difference.

If your racing on short tracks with lots of corners, it's pretty easy to overtake a lot of AI before the RaceColdBrainTime time limit is up. This is the reason why it's left out in the Template. The AI will use as much available traction as the user to compete at race start.

The drivers actually all share a common performance base. The only way that is documented to produce a closer field of cars is to change a line in your .PLR file -

[ Game Options ]

AI Power Calibration="7" // Adjustments with AI strength (0=none, or add the following: 1=power, 2=gearing, 4=fuel)


By setting the AI Power Calibration="0", the differences between all the AI cars are not used, so it doesn't matter if one team driver has a full tank of fuel and his team-mate has an almost empty tank of fuel, they will both do the same lap times. This will produce a much closer racing throughout the race session. But by doing so, the AI field will not spread out anything like what real life does.

Regards Barry
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Old 25 February 11, 07:25   #36
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Hi barry. I have interested your values AI throttle control (tcgripthreshold=1 tcthrottlefract=0.8 tcresponse=1) in talent files. What affected it on ai skill? So is AI faster or slower with these values?
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Old 25 February 11, 09:26   #37
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Hi marianf1. It is logical to assume that all real drivers have roughly the same driving ability, after all, if they were no good they would not be paid to drive the cars. In this respect like the user, they use all their experiance to drive the best to their ability, which means typically they are not slow at race start, they are not slow at cornering, either going into, or out of corners - these are mostly car problems (setups, physics etc..) not drivers.

The Traction control settings give the AI some form of individuality in on-throttle conditions.

Assuming 0.0 - 1.0

tcgripthreshold = The total amount of traction available to the AI driver.

tcthrottlefract = The amount of available throttle the AI driver will use.

tcresponse = How quick the traction control kicks in.

It's relatively easy to 'cheat the system' by looking at the drivers talent files, and seeing which driver is bad and which is good in traction controlled conditions. The same could be said of looking at the real life season stats which this game is based. By removing the widely differing values, every AI driver has a chance of winning, and is not crippled by the fact his car did not perform at certain tracks.

The AI drivers are the same, it's the cars perfomances and the MinRacingSkill = 0.98 randomness through the race that produces the AI differences.

I hope this helps.

Regards Barry
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Old 25 February 11, 10:21   #38
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Thanks barry. But you changed default traction control setting, so now AI drivers use better traction control and been more stable with your Template?
And another question about Composure setting. Your Composure=0.3 but default is 0.01... so your setting is much higher. It means that AI drivers can make a lot of mistakes in racing session. Are you sure that's good?
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Old 25 February 11, 11:17   #39
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Hi. If i did the same as ISI, Blimey et.el, the AI would still be the same as the default. It's pointless to keep the same values that will make the AI still bad. The adjustments i made are designed to make the user race against the AI, and not the AI race the user.

Real life drivers cannot change parameters because the others are faster or can race longer without losing concentration. Real life drivers wait for others to make errors to move up the grid whilst not making errors themselves.

By continually adjusting the parameters of the AI Template you not only make the AI race on your terms, but you will end up spending all day changing things, which could restrict the AI's performanc ,and then you'll find that the AI will never be a challenge. A much simpler way would be to reduce the difficulty to less than 100%, perhaps 90%-95%.

There were too many conflicting parameters with the AI, forcing them to try to behave as real cars would, you need to consider what the AI were like, and what they are like now. The basic choice is to cripple the AI or let them race on equal terms.

Regards Barry
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Old 9 March 11, 14:48   #40
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Does this update work together with the NAP-mod ?
And if so, what should be the install sequal ?
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Old 9 March 11, 21:46   #41
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Hi Wilfred. This Template will not work with the Nap-Mod per se, as there are several areas that were changed from the default GTR2 within the physics. The Talent files will work as the cars have the same drivers, and the damage files will also work. Whilst the racing will be better with just these 2 included, both the braking systems and deceleration parameters of the engines will not be correct, and the rear-ending will still be present albeit not so much.

Regards Barry
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Old 11 March 11, 19:50   #42
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Thanks for the reply Barry.
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Old 11 March 11, 20:05   #43
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Barry, I noticed that my braking ability had plummeted, no matter how long I drove the car or how much I decreased the brake ducts (I haven't run against the AI yet...this was during a private testing session, not a race). I was using one of my existing setups and couldn't figure out what was happening, so I looked at the setup and my brake pressure setting was at 25%. I normally use 85%, so it was no wonder I couldn't stop the car. Is there something in the template that would cause this? I wouldn't think that just the AI template would overwrite something in my setup file.

I'm not running any major mods...just a few like brighter headlights and the NoCD patch. Would even minor mods make a difference such as this?
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Old 11 March 11, 20:27   #44
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Hi WhataMack. The braking system of the AI Template has been increased above the 20% that the default GTR2 gave the user. This Template offers 80% braking ability (Please see *Note* below), which your setup would reflect in the garage and by driving as being much lower.

A popular *fix* for the AI braking is to increase the braking ability above 1.00 (100%), this is an attempt to stop the AI rear-ending. Go beyond a certain point above 100%, and the AI will get into all sorts of difficulty, even to the point they would 'flip over' when braking into a corner.

Using logic on the braking system, allows the AI to brake more effectively and (apart from AI mistakes), stops most of the rear-ending. The down side is that all setups made for an ISI based game, do not provide 100% braking, but as you have seen, an inefficient braking system. The user only needs to check the brakes in the garage with this template, everything else 'should' as per expected i.w.o setup.

*Note*

This Template provides a braking ability of 80%. During our extensive workshop discussions and subsequent testing with the AI, it was found that an acceptable racing experiance with the default GTR2 was maintained, but still allowed some small bumping as would happen in real life.

I hope this helps

Regards Barry
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Old 11 March 11, 20:34   #45
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Thanks for that, Barry. So just to be clear, it can be expected that all setups a player has made prior to using the AI template will show this type of change in brake pressure once the AI template is added in? And if so, I'm assuming that adjusting the brake pressure in the player's setup will not affect or negate the AI's braking performance.
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Old 11 March 11, 21:00   #46
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Yes, any setup you use will only have the braking different.

Concerning the AI. We disable the AI setups in our .PLR file under the [Game Options] section -

Vehicle Specific AI Setups="0" // This stops the Ai looking for, and using track specific setups.

The Talent files in the Template will allow the game to 'drive' the AI without restrictions, but the braking is effected, so it's either search/replace all AI .SVM files in their respective vehicle folders for the braking parameter -

BrakePressureSetting=20

And change it to -

BrakePressureSetting=80

Or the simpler .PLR line adjustment.

Regards Barry
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Old 18 March 11, 22:06   #47
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Barry, I had a question about the Porsche 969 RS and RSR being driven by the updated AI. It seems that there are a lot of Porsches spinning out in the races I've done with the new AI, much more so than any other car. I know the RS and RSR are tail-happy in general, but I was just curious if you thought the AI as written would be more inclined to spin with them. I don't have a installation with the default or otherwise tweaked AI anymore so I don't have any comparison with the updated AI to the default.

Thanks in advance and thanks for all your help and great work.
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Old 18 March 11, 23:08   #48
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Hi WhataMack. There are only 2 things that could influence the Porsche to spin with the AI Template, these would be -

.HDC -

AdjustSuspRates=1

If this is set at =0, it allows motion ratio to influence the suspension physics. The Porsche tend to go funny when set at =0. I could be mis-informed, but this looks to be a game engine problem, not the cars physics, as front engined cars don't suffer from the same problem. Please check the .HDC files of the Porsche if they are =1 (i'm pretty sure they are =1).

The other is because the weight of the Porsche is in the rear of the car. When rapid cornering occurs, the weight transition shifts too quick for the AI to react, which causes the spinouts. Is the line in your .PLR the same as below -

Vehicle Specific AI Setups="0" // This stops the Ai looking for, and using track specific setups.

This helps a great deal as it removes further artificial influence on the cars.

I have had Porsche spin out before, but it's not a regular occurance. There is usually something else involved for it to happen, like crash avoidance, negotiating a chicane/corner too quickly when in a pack trying to gain a position, or simply the track layout itself. The worst i have found is Oschersleben at the turn 6/7 chicane, i've even had Lambo's spin out there.

Does it happen at all tracks or only specific ones? It could be that the Porsche need a setup for a particular track, with a better Slow Damper and Brake Balance. You could use the default Porsche .SVM (if there is one for the track), and adjust it to reduce the rapid weight tranference of the rear engined Porsche.

Hope this helps

Regards Barry
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Old 21 March 11, 18:06   #49
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Hi, Barry. I started looking at AI tweaks I'd made over the past couple years, to see how they compare to the Reborn AI changes. All these changes were from different sources on the forums.

I've noticed that there are some differences, as might be expected, between those tweaks and the changes in the Reborn AI. One difference in particular is with a change I was using to address the "AI slowdown" problem, and I'm curious what your thoughts are on this.

Here's the summary of the change for that, which is part of the "VonDutch’s Better AI Tutorial for GTR2":

Quote:
AI SLOWDOWN
The "AI slowdown" problem is actually an aero damage issue. The AI bump and grind with each other (especially if you have raised the aggression level) and damage each other to the point where they slow down significantly over the course of a race.

First you need to open the ".dmg" (damage) file of each and every team (e.g., "Ferrari 360 Teams") that you want to race against.

Look for this line:
"AeroMin=1100.0"
Raise this to 7500.0 or higher.

What this does is raise the minimum amount of force that it takes for the AI (or your car for that matter) to become damaged. This number takes some trial and error to get right, but 7500 is a good start. Remember that the number can be different for the different vehicles in the game/race.
The .dmg files in the Reborn AI are using the default value of 1100.0 for the AeroMin variable. Is there something else in the Reborn AI that addresses this, and what's your opinion on this change relative to the other Reborn AI changes?
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Old 21 March 11, 19:18   #50
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Hi WhataMack.

The AeroMin value change mentioned elsewhere is actually a 'Fudge', it's neither a tweak nor a cure, it's a workaround to get over the fact that the AI continually ram into each other. It certainly doesn't solve the problem, it's just pushed the problem into the long grass and allows an unrealistic outcome of a racing session.

****************************

"This number takes some trial and error to get right, but 7500 is a good start. Remember that the number can be different for the different vehicles in the game/race."

****************************

Hmmmm - 'Trial and error', 'different vehicles', who is to say what is right when everyone is different.

If you were to change the braking in the .HDC to -

BrakePressureRange=(0.00, 0.01, 101)
BrakePressureSetting=100

(And change the AI's .SVM's BrakePressureSetting to =100 as well)

You'll probably find that the AI rarely touch each other, in this instance the AeroMin could actually be lower than =1100 and the AI still have a reasonable race.

The ramming issue is nothing to do with the AI programming, but involves (amongst other things), the braking system of the cars. Please recall the default (typical) BrakePressureSetting=20, the value is exactly that, it's 20%, not 100%. No wonder the cars ram into each other!

The other values in the damage files reflect the damage that arises from, and above the minimum impact value. It is extremely difficult to calculate damage parameters, not only impact speed, impact angle, the materials involved in the impact, and/or whether your mother-in-law is sitting in the back all have a great influence. The base AeroMin is the same default value, but the calculated impact damage is greater.

The damage files supplied allows the AI to pit when damaged, and not keep driving until they slow down. The AI will continually pit throughout a race which does happen in real life. Use of the AeroMin=7500 results in the AI rarely pitting and continually ramming each other (and yourself).

Sorry to bang on about this, but i find it's better to solve a problem than to bodge it.

Hope this helps

Regards Barry
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