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Old 31 March 11, 15:12   #1
East
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Default Incremental Movement of the Steering wheel: GamePad/Keyboard

Everyone here doesn't use a wheel setup for Shift 2. However, I've always wondered why developers haven't used the incremental movement of the wheel that was found in games like Test Drive from 1987.

(you can skip ahead to 2:40. As it can be nostalgic if you've played it )
If you look at the blue dot at the top of the steering wheel it allowed a user of a keyboard, game pad, etc similar incremental turning as one who uses a wheel.

Although using a gamepad now has improved I am still left wondering if the above method would still fair better then what is used now? Perhaps there is a modifiable solution?
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Old 31 March 11, 15:58   #2
helloworld
 
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You serious? Could you imagine what would happen when wheels suddenly turn more than 10 degrees in Shift? You'd completely lose control over the car. Hell, even with gamepad too sudden movements kick you out and that's supposed to be a smooth control.
A full control is a must even if it's possible to turn very fast and completely lose control. You just need to be careful yourself. If you want game to hold your hand there are plenty of assists and settings for that.
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Old 31 March 11, 16:08   #3
East
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helloworld View Post
You serious? Could you imagine what would happen when wheels suddenly turn more than 10 degrees in Shift? You'd completely lose control over the car. Hell, even with gamepad too sudden movements kick you out and that's supposed to be a smooth control.
A full control is a must even if it's possible to turn very fast and completely lose control. You just need to be careful yourself. If you want game to hold your hand there are plenty of assists and settings for that.
Are you serious? The incremental control can be fully adjusted based on how much the wheel on the screen actually turns. Honestly, you can't be serious. You actually took the video at face value only and concocted this response? Perhaps I should have been more clear but the video should have been used as a guide not a 1:1 to what Shift should be. Sheesh...
Furthermore, it would offer a steering reaction similar to what one would use on the steering wheel. Using the thumb pad to get the wheels turning faster then one would with a wheel is not "full control" .
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Old 31 March 11, 16:31   #4
DoktorR
 
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Is this "Shift 3 Unleashed - The REAL-REAL-Racing Simulator" ? ^^

Fully console optimized as you can see.
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Old 31 March 11, 16:55   #5
East
 
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Originally Posted by DoktorR View Post
Is this "Shift 3 Unleashed - The REAL-REAL-Racing Simulator" ? ^^

Fully console optimized as you can see.
Ha, haa, if they are going that route they mind as well offer better support of the gamepad and keyboard for those that don't use/have a wheel.
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Old 31 March 11, 17:09   #6
helloworld
 
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Hmm, so what you have in mind is something like a lazy-mouse feature? I'm still not sure how it would help. The problem with keyboard now is that while the "rise" is slow, it centers very quickly. So, if you let go of the directional key the car instantly yanks. If anything I'd love to see filter settings like in RBR. That could help a lot.
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Old 31 March 11, 17:29   #7
Kazumi
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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S1 has many of these supported

SteerFilterAutoAimSlipScale=1.0
SteerFilterAutoYawAngleDampingScale=1.0
SteerFilterAutoStraightLockScale=1.0
SteerFilterAutoFallVelocityScale=1.0
SteerFilterAutoRiseVelocityScale=1.0
SteerFilterAutoVelocityScale=1.0
SteerFilterSlipScale=1.0
SteerFilterGripScale=1.0
NominalYawAngleScale=1.1
NominalFallDampingScale=1.0
NominalRiseDampingScale=1.0
MaxSteerVelocityScale=0.95
ThrottleLinearity=1.0
SpeedSensitiveSteeringScale=1.0

in car .cdf

they all get ignored with using wheel (not sure about the last 2) so in theory people could mod each car to feel better with pad / digital input without having them to smooth to much (less smoothing at yaw and so on for example when you need countersteering)

iirc they only use MaxSteerVelocityScale and another setting to make the steering less nervous on certain cars.

some are in input .xml file of course too.
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Old 31 March 11, 18:04   #8
East
 
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So it can be modded then. That's refreshing to know.
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Old 31 March 11, 21:00   #9
leahcim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by East View Post
Are you serious? The incremental control can be fully adjusted based on how much the wheel on the screen actually turns. Honestly, you can't be serious. You actually took the video at face value only and concocted this response? Perhaps I should have been more clear but the video should have been used as a guide not a 1:1 to what Shift should be. Sheesh...
Furthermore, it would offer a steering reaction similar to what one would use on the steering wheel. Using the thumb pad to get the wheels turning faster then one would with a wheel is not "full control" .
True, but I think it's moot. They don't really care enough about keyboard users. Consoles don't have keyboards - that's the majority of the customers, and it's very easy to add either a wheel or 360 controller to a PC to cover the rest.

As for a controller. Forza 2 demonstrated quite well that it's perfectly possible to interpret / translate analogue stick movement into smooth, controlled wheel input. In a way that means you can drive pretty much any of the cars in their game with or without assists and alongside, competitively with wheel users.

But I imagine figuring out how to properly interpret and apply controller input is the least of SMS's worries. The only thing they needed to do with Shift 1 to create shift 2 was get the handing right. From what I've seen so far they haven't done that.

What's "right" - well that's the question There's no one right, but it's probably easier to code (and spot) what wrong is when you see it Shift provides more examples of this, thanks to youtube, than probably any other racing game.

Even games that have good handling don't necessarily get every car right. It's not a question of how realistic it is or isn't. Plenty of arcade racing games get it right for example even if most of us want something more challenging. Forza 2 got it right. GTR Evo has its moments.

But, imo, Shift didn't get it right. Twice in a row now. I suppose you might argue that one man's right is another's wrong. Perhaps.
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Old 1 April 11, 02:10   #10
East
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leahcim View Post
True, but I think it's moot. They don't really care enough about keyboard users. Consoles don't have keyboards - that's the majority of the customers, and it's very easy to add either a wheel or 360 controller to a PC to cover the rest.
Actually it's not moot at all. Remember, not everyone owns a wheel. So the only other options are game pad/keyboard, etc. What I do think is moot is that you mentioned consolers in a PC modding community forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leahcim View Post
As for a controller. Forza 2 demonstrated quite well that it's perfectly possible to interpret / translate analogue stick movement into smooth, controlled wheel input. In a way that means you can drive pretty much any of the cars in their game with or without assists and alongside, competitively with wheel users.
I only wish Forza 2 was on the PC. But as it stands this is what we have to deal with. So in the meantime we have to come up with ways to improve on this game via modding. As one user already noted it is possible which is what I was looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leahcim View Post
But I imagine figuring out how to properly interpret and apply controller input is the least of SMS's worries. The only thing they needed to do with Shift 1 to create shift 2 was get the handing right. From what I've seen so far they haven't done that.
I honestly didn't create the thread in hopes they would fix it. What I was looking for was to see if there was a way to tweak it yourself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leahcim View Post
What's "right" - well that's the question There's no one right, but it's probably easier to code (and spot) what wrong is when you see it Shift provides more examples of this, thanks to youtube, than probably any other racing game.

Even games that have good handling don't necessarily get every car right. It's not a question of how realistic it is or isn't. Plenty of arcade racing games get it right for example even if most of us want something more challenging. Forza 2 got it right. GTR Evo has its moments.

But, imo, Shift didn't get it right. Twice in a row now. I suppose you might argue that one man's right is another's wrong. Perhaps.
In the end, it really hard to compare one racing game to another when there are so few current ones to choose from the PC. I think that we can agree that this release isn't as good as it could be. And since there is no mention from the developers of patch this community has to take the initiative and mod the game.
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