rFactor 2 gives Project CARS a run for its money

[Scorz]

Originally Posted by guybo

When was the last time a beta was representative of the finished product? People are judging rFactor2 according to what they see today not according to the POTENTIAL of what they see today. I'm beginning to think that ISI made a mistake by releasing this beta because people just have no clue what a beta is.

rFactor2 has the team working on it that made rFactor1. pCars has the team working on it that did Shift. That's all I need to know. I'm a sim racer, have been since I discovered RBR in 05. rFactor 2's graphics are not finished.

Exactly

[PortuguesePilot]

Originally Posted by guybo

rFactor2 has the team working on it that made rFactor1. pCars has the team working on it that did Shift. That's all I need to know. I'm a sim racer, have been since I discovered RBR in 05. rFactor 2's graphics are not finished.

i think much the same way. and after informing myself and reading a few comments posted by influential people on the pCARS world, i'm convinced that pCARS will follow the Shift path. which is OK, but not my thing at all. i'm also a sim guy. since ever, actually. since Test Drive 1, in 1987.

that said, i'm from a time when graphics were so basic that they let many things up for imagination. my first console was an ATARI 2600 back in the early 80's. i used to play Pac-Man on the arcades and rave about its graphics. i first discovered the joy of racing "simulations" with the aforementioned Test Drive game and i played it in CGA - 4 Colour mode.

so - with a personal gaming history such as this - it's easy to understand that, for me, graphics aren't very important. they are just a complement. i value realism, feeling and frame rates much more than eye candy. eye candy serves only as a complement to a nice sim.
sure, it's nice to see those little details in the graphics, it sure helps immersion, but the graphics, by themselves, are nothing for a sim. you could have the best graphics in the world, but if the physics are bad and the game runs at low fps even on top-notch hardware, then the game sucks.
graphics shouldn't be the main focus or main "quality" of a sim. when people say things like "yeah, but pCARS has BETTER GRAPHICS" most of the time i just reply: "so what?"

there's so much more to a racing simulator than its graphics...

[Copef1]

I love all of you physics, physics, physics people. C'mon, its 2012, I want it all. Do you need good physics? yes. But in this day and age, that isn't enough. If a sim had the best physics ever, but looked like Atari's pole positioin, I wouldn't be interested. Graphics definately help with immersion into a sim.

I have both pCars, and rFactor 2, and my hope is that when the Alpha/Beta stages are finally over, that pCars physics improve, and that rFactors 2's graphics improve. Hopefully both these developers keep pushing the limits on all aspecs of their sims.

[edubz123]

Originally Posted by guybo

pCars has the team working on it that did Shift.

^and GTR2

Originally Posted by guybo

rFactor 2's graphics are not finished

^and neither are pCARS tire model, FFB or physics.

It's pretty obvious what's happening here. Both companies are playing to their traditional strengths and the players have aligned themselves to their traditional preferences. What will be interesting to see is which company can turn their perceived "weaknesses" into strengths and shine in all areas. Both companies are also employing new development methodologies. I don't remember the last time players have had this much interaction in the dev process. Good times.

[gears]

All you have to do is read the interview with Ian Bell in the new autosimsport to see where pCARS is going.....

pCARS will be a

more realistic GT5 and Forza 4 for the masses.

and

It's all polish from here on in. The game is about 25% complete at the moment, we need mainly to focus on content and features

http://www.autosimsport.net/

There you have it.

1. GT and Forza
2. It's all polish from here on
3. We need to focus on content and features

So much for the physics and FFB....

[freejrs]

Originally Posted by gears

All you have to do is read the interview with Ian Bell in the new autosimsport to see where pCARS is going.....

pCARS will be a

and

http://www.autosimsport.net/

There you have it.

1. GT and Forza
2. It's all polish from here on
3. We need to focus on content and features

So much for the physics and FFB....

Well that is good to know.........Glad I didn't give them another 25 EURO to upgrade my membership, whatever that means anyway.........

When pCARS first came out people were saying how it was already the best sim out there for FFB and feeling............these people must've been on the payroll in some way or another as it was damn awful then and is still awful now.

Think I last played a build 3 weeks ago........basically undriveable....totally unrealistic.....SHIFT 3 in all but name.

[gears]

Originally Posted by freejrs

Well that is good to know.........Glad I didn't give them another 25 EURO to upgrade my membership, whatever that means anyway.........

When pCARS first came out people were saying how it was already the best sim out there for FFB and feeling............these people must've been on the payroll in some way or another as it was damn awful then and is still awful now.

Think I last played a build 3 weeks ago........basically undriveable....totally unrealistic.....SHIFT 3 in all but name.

Agreed.

Reading that interview made me buy another copy of rF2 just for principle.

[kamikaze666]

a more realistic gt5 for PC, im sold.

gt5 is already great for me physics ffb wise.

[Beaverz]

If you talk about graphic then I'll have to ask if you're kidding me?
rFactor2's lighting is nowhere near pCARS. But again, to me rF2 looks realistically good but pCARS looks really cinematic, just like watching movie. Nothing wrong with it as long as they don't make it too over the top. And rF2 with better graphic is still something I want to see.

[2fast2drive]

Originally Posted by edubz123

^and GTR2


^and neither are pCARS tire model, FFB or physics.

It's pretty obvious what's happening here. Both companies are playing to their traditional strengths and the players have aligned themselves to their traditional preferences. What will be interesting to see is which company can turn their perceived "weaknesses" into strengths and shine in all areas. Both companies are also employing new development methodologies. I don't remember the last time players have had this much interaction in the dev process. Good times.

love your comment. I totally agree. And I am sure a lot of people over at WMD is hoping to see the change of weakness into strength too, that is why they are over there to give feedbacks.

regarding the interview, Ian Bell has given his comment in WMD forum, it wasnt a really true representation of what he wanted to say, apparently it wasnt a pleasant experience for him when he read it as he said himself alot of information are misrepresented. So Please dont use that article as hard evidence just yet. Wait and see. If you like pCars at the moment, jump onboard like me. If you prefer RF2 ,go ahead. You only judge the winner at the finishing line, not in the middle.

[Kazumi]

Originally Posted by 2fast2drive

regarding the interview, Ian Bell has given his comment in WMD forum, it wasnt a really true representation of what he wanted to say, apparently it wasnt a pleasant experience for him when he read it as he said himself alot of information are misrepresented. So Please dont use that article as hard evidence just yet. Wait and see.

Yeah, there are one or two things I wondered too, which some people took literally. On the other hand,... if they prepare questions and answers it's not better then a "real" interview IMHO.

If he feels misrepresented perhaps he should communicate that outside of WMD forums as well

Originally Posted by kamikaze666

a more realistic gt5 for PC, im sold.

gt5 is already great for me physics ffb wise.

It's definately better then some people speak of it on PC focussed forums. The improvements from GT5 Prologue (which already felt more then okay for console racing game) to GT5 can't be ignored...

Still... would people on consoles like it as much if there would be just ~ 50 cars? I dunno.

[alex291190]

Originally Posted by mrpowcz

Anyway... rF2 will be THE sim of the year... that connection with road is just unbeatable. I didn't try pCars but from what I read it doesn't sound all that hardcore

[DurgeDriven]

So Physics, Graphics, framerate all these things are not that important on their own to me.

I really do find the which and why threads funny.

I will have pCARS, rFactor 2 and GPL installed for many years yet, God willing.

........and I am one that occasionally gets accussed of being a troll.


".......variety is the spice of life......" ......bahahaha

[Scorz]

Originally Posted by 2fast2drive

love your comment. I totally agree. And I am sure a lot of people over at WMD is hoping to see the change of weakness into strength too, that is why they are over there to give feedbacks.

regarding the interview, Ian Bell has given his comment in WMD forum, it wasnt a really true representation of what he wanted to say, apparently it wasnt a pleasant experience for him when he read it as he said himself alot of information are misrepresented. So Please dont use that article as hard evidence just yet. Wait and see. If you like pCars at the moment, jump onboard like me. If you prefer RF2 ,go ahead. You only judge the winner at the finishing line, not in the middle.

Ian Bell is very good at backing himself out of a corner to defend the game. Fact is, it came from him and he meant it at the time. If you lot are silly enough to believe the backtracking now then more fool you

[Scorz]

Originally Posted by alex291190

Cya

[hoboholic]

It all comes down to taste, they are both great sims and thats all there is to it. This is no different to the age old GTR2 vs rFactor arguements from yesteryear...

I'm leaving the discussion because theres going to be no middle ground for me to discuss with... because if I say that I think pCARS is realistic in physics people are just going to shoot me in the kneecaps and call me blind or "on the payroll".

pCARS has more for me to enjoy in terms of physics and features than rFactor 2, I'm going to enjoy it and thats all that matters to me. I still hope that rF2 continues to get better though so that I can re-purchase when I feel it is a sim I can enjoy... but that time just isn't now.

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by hoboholic

It all comes down to taste, they are both great sims and thats all there is to it. This is no different to the age old GTR2 vs rFactor arguements from yesteryear...

I'm leaving the discussion because theres going to be no middle ground for me to discuss with... because if I say that I think pCARS is realistic in physics people are just going to shoot me in the kneecaps and call me blind or "on the payroll".

pCARS has more for me to enjoy in terms of physics and features than rFactor 2, I'm going to enjoy it and thats all that matters to me. I still hope that rF2 continues to get better though so that I can re-purchase when I feel it is a sim I can enjoy... but that time just isn't now.

The force is strong with you, young Jedi.

[2fast2drive]

Originally Posted by Scorz

Ian Bell is very good at backing himself out of a corner to defend the game. Fact is, it came from him and he meant it at the time. If you lot are silly enough to believe the backtracking now then more fool you

so now it simply comes down to one's word against another isnt it? Which does not really warrant any valid discussion as whether it is true or not, because we simply wouldnt know. Right now I simply have faith in this project, and I believe the community have the power to change the course of the development towards the goal where we all wanted it to be. And we have about 12 months to make that happen. As simple as that.

[freejrs]

Originally Posted by hoboholic

I'm leaving the discussion because theres going to be no middle ground for me to discuss with... because if I say that I think pCARS is realistic in physics people are just going to shoot me in the kneecaps and call me blind or "on the payroll".
.

Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, your kneecaps are safe. pCARS has physics........they are supposedly based in reality (not so sure myself)..............but if you can enjoy it for what it is then knock yourself out.

Some people clearly are on the payroll though.

For me the physics/FFB are not a level that I would consider drivable yet and I can't see how they are going to turn a pig into a princess. Start with a terrible base game and the final product can only be so good.......

Anyway all this rubbish comparing rFactor 2 and pCARS is elementary really...........both will pale in comparision to Assetto Corsa so let's just leave it at that.

I mean netKar Pro is still miles ahead of pCARS in terms of physics and FFB so while WMD are still playing catch up Kunos is preparing to dominate the market.

Not to mention modding........rFactor 2 and Assetto Corsa will both be mod friendly.

[zud the spud]

I think you just proved Hobo's point, freejrs, it's all down to personal taste. I don't understand how you can call pCars undriveable but that's just your opinion.

[freejrs]

Originally Posted by zud the spud

I think you just proved Hobo's point, freejrs, it's all down to personal taste. I don't understand how you can call pCars undriveable but that's just your opinion.

Well I wasn't trying to disprove him. I am sure there is a market for that kinda semi-sim, half arcade..........."soft sim" but I am just not part of that demographic.

pCARS is clearly not undriveable........that's just my exagerated opinion. I however cannot drive it as they have made so little progress with the physics and FFB and I won't be conned into thinking "it will be amazing on release"...........Im sure it will be very shiny and polished but a gold painted turd remains excrement all the same.

Just as an example..........changing gear with the Lotus 60's............I select the gear with my h hsifter and then............I bide my time while I await the gear change animation and then finally about 1 second later I am graced with the gear I selected 1 second previously. It was like that on release and it's still like that now. Undriveable.

[Norcal_GIT_r]

It sounds like you have some sort of system issue.
I have none of the issues you describe in pCARS.
I think CARS drives great. I can say I've experienced what have described with Shift 2 but not at all in CARS.

[Kazumi]

Originally Posted by hoboholic

I'm leaving the discussion because theres going to be no middle ground for me to discuss with... because if I say that I think pCARS is realistic in physics people are just going to shoot me in the kneecaps and call me blind or "on the payroll".

There's a giant middleground, the physics can be realistic (like in current-sims-realistic) and the cars still handle odd. Some obvious like collisions or jumps (but then again those are no sims strength). Some less obvious making it less enjoyable as a ("pure") sim for some people.

[freejrs]

Well Iv downloaded the latest build so I may give it a go to see if the issue is still there.....

[mrpowcz]

alex291190 - Look at least I admitted I didn't try it personally.. because I don't have reason to do so. If half of all players say pCars feels much less realistic than rF2, that's enough for me because the chance I'd like it so small.

[edubz123]

don't forget this

[hoboholic]

Originally Posted by freejrs

Well Iv downloaded the latest build so I may give it a go to see if the issue is still there.....

Wha exactly is the issue your having? Because with a DFGT I'm not noticing much difference in FFB between rF2 or pCARS, and sure the physics are different but both feel good to me except for the winged 60's F1 car in rFactor handles the same as the non winged one.

[Chronus]

Originally Posted by freejrs

Well I wasn't trying to disprove him. I am sure there is a market for that kinda semi-sim, half arcade..........."soft sim" but I am just not part of that demographic.

pCARS is clearly not undriveable........that's just my exagerated opinion. I however cannot drive it as they have made so little progress with the physics and FFB and I won't be conned into thinking "it will be amazing on release"...........Im sure it will be very shiny and polished but a gold painted turd remains excrement all the same.

Not undriveable - but it is barely driveable at times. For me and people I know, regardless of how powerful/new/old the machines are, we're getting below 30 FPS, with heavy stuttering. Not even S2U was that bad when it was released.

Clearly, pCARS is still not ready to be deployed as most of the WMD members I talk to tell of different problems, from performance to input lag - some have issues with their sound cards as well.

It is still in pre-alpha, or so they say, we should expect these problems to be solved in the upcoming months. Obviously, as several "investors" and "employees" admitted, the main target is "console sales" and its millions, so...

Just as an example..........changing gear with the Lotus 60's............I select the gear with my h hsifter and then............I bide my time while I await the gear change animation and then finally about 1 second later I am graced with the gear I selected 1 second previously. It was like that on release and it's still like that now. Undriveable.

You are not the first to report this. How's performance on your machine?

[Hired Goon]

Strange how varied our experiences can be. I found rF2 a terrible drive when I tried it, which surprised me. I wasn't happy with some of the earlier pcars builds too, but the latest few releases are amazing. They've crushed the input lag bug and are dialing the FFB very nicely now...it's a contender. Both are works in progress so let's let them evolve.

[freejrs]

Originally Posted by hoboholic

Wha exactly is the issue your having?

My main issue is that SMS started with SHIFT 2 as a base to make a racing simulation and somehow believed and advertised that pCARS was going to be the most advanced sim ever made.

It isn't.

Making SHI(F)T 2 into a viable racing sim is not.......viable. They will just end up with SHI(F)T 3 as is already evident with what I have experienced. FFB and car feeling is linked closely to physics........they can't make physics........I can't drive the car.

And this.....

Originally Posted by guybo

rFactor2 has the team working on it that made rFactor1. pCars has the team working on it that did Shift. That's all I need to know.

And Assetto Corsa has the experience and knowhow behind it that made netKar Pro.

I am not a betting man but it is clear to me that if past success is an indicator of future performance then I know exactly where my money is going for the next gen racing sims. A hint for you..........it will not be on SHI(F)T 3.

That's before you even start talking about modding..........

Originally Posted by Chronus

It is still in pre-alpha, or so they say, we should expect these problems to be solved in the upcoming months. Obviously, as several "investors" and "employees" admitted, the main target is "console sales" and its millions, so...

You are not the first to report this. How's performance on your machine?

I wouldn't be surprised to see the name changed before release. I mean community assited racing simulation means nothing at all. I fail to see what input the community has had thus far.

Rallying much???? No.

I guess they could keep CARS and just change the meaning..........

"Captain Adventure's Racing Synopsis."

or

"Comparitively Arcade Racing Shenanigans."

As for performance.....

50-60 FPS depending on track. Low-medium settings. Unable to select the desired gear at the desired time whatever the settings..

[gears]

Originally Posted by freejrs

My main issue is that SMS started with SHIFT 2 as a base to make a racing simulation and somehow believed and advertised that pCARS was going to be the most advanced sim ever made.

It isn't.

Making SHI(F)T 2 into a viable racing sim is not.......viable. They will just end up with SHI(F)T 3 as is already evident with what I have experienced. FFB and car feeling is linked closely to physics........they can't make physics........I can't drive the car.

I totally agree with everything said ^

And here's the topper:

The latest issue of autosimsport, Ian Bell says in the interview that pCARS is not based on shift!!

That really says a lot...

[Scorz]

Originally Posted by gears

I totally agree with everything said ^

And here's the topper:

The latest issue of autosimsport, Ian Bell says in the interview that pCARS is not based on shift!!

That really says a lot...

Yeah that made me laugh aswell when i read that. It's so bloody evident, it's untrue

[Kazumi]

Originally Posted by freejrs

My main issue is that SMS started with SHIFT 2 as a base to make a racing simulation and somehow believed and advertised that pCARS was going to be the most advanced sim ever made.

It isn't.

Making SHI(F)T 2 into a viable racing sim is not.......viable. They will just end up with SHI(F)T 3 as is already evident with what I have experienced

That's perfectly viable, if you think as the likes of NkP/FVA as that kind of "sim" target.

(Note: NkP/FVA is a good example IMHO since they come with only like one dozen of cars)

Besides there's a lot of new code in pCars. My feeling is (I'm not involved in pCars, but that already happened on some of their older games, and some other non-racing games I know of) that if you improve on things that don't need improvements, it don't lead to major improvements in performance/feel. To put it simple... of course most things are linked to some extent. But if there are major improvements on the parts that already were okay and without issues, it's just less likely to notice.

Originally Posted by freejrs

FFB and car feeling is linked closely to physics

That is indeed correct... FFB and car feeling specific stuff can be pretty basic (not saying it's not advanced - it is) code, but completely relies on input parameters and functions.

IMHO in ideal case the first version should get this as good as possible, in rF2 - you don't even have to like it - you get an immediate effect on what they tried to achieve and also improvements over rFactor 1 unmodified (given that's like 5 years old, but it was their last release)

Problem is... rFactor 2 and AC not many of us know how they drive in that state (AFAIK AC is already close to beta, if not already?)

[Hired Goon]

Consider closing this thread. It's basically become Battlefield 3 vs Modern Warfare 3.

[Vince Klortho]

Originally Posted by Hired Goon

... Both are works in progress so let's let them evolve.

This is probably the most relevant sentence in this entire thread. I have beta tested a few games and in nearly every case the difference between the last beta and final versions was very significant. In most cases the physics were the last thing to be dialed in. I can also recall a game or two that changed considerably with its first patch. It is far too early to be passing judgement on these games.

[renard]

This^^

[SwiftyOne]

Originally Posted by Vince Klortho

This is probably the most relevant sentence in this entire thread. I have beta tested a few games and in nearly every case the difference between the last beta and final versions was very significant. In most cases the physics were the last thing to be dialed in. I can also recall a game or two that changed considerably with its first patch. It is far too early to be passing judgement on these games.

Originally Posted by SwiftyOne

Lets wait and see when their BOTH finished, only then can you fairly compare both

Swifty

Exactly what I had said early on in the thread..

IMO... Been a wast of time this!

Swifty

[Chronus]

Originally Posted by guybo

When was the last time a beta was representative of the finished product? People are judging rFactor2 according to what they see today not according to the POTENTIAL of what they see today. I'm beginning to think that ISI made a mistake by releasing this beta because people just have no clue what a beta is.

You know what happened (or what happens) in pCARS forums (here and elsewhere), any criticism or "judgement" is met with hostility and mockery.

Now, they (the Borg-like types that refer to themselves as "We") go into other forums (rFactor, rFactor2, even iRacing's) and bring their mockery and hostility to fans of other racing sims.

Coming here and say that pCARS "feels" better than rF2 or is better than rF2 is just part of that "strategy".

Ignoring these types would be a lot more productive in discussions about rF2.

rFactor2 has the team working on it that made rFactor1. pCars has the team working on it that did Shift. That's all I need to know.

Blimey/SMS have a lot of potential, knowledge and experience too. They're also behind GTR2, and we know how good GTR2 was/is.

They (SMS) did produce S2U, but as I have told people repeatedly at NoGrip, S2U holds a lot of potential in it. The modders behind the UCP and ermo are doing a fine job at revamping it, proving that assertion.

Now pCARS (I see some people call it Shift 3) is still not finished and can improve a lot. Judging from the latest "moves" and discussions at WMD and here, however, the potential for improvement lies in areas a significant number of simracers consider secondary (the eye-candy "substance" many mistake for realism). If that is confirmed, pCARS may sell millions for console gamers, will not last long in the harddisks of serious simracers and will rapidly be superseded by pCARS 2 or something similar.

[Copef1]

Originally Posted by Chronus

You know what happened (or what happens) in pCARS forums (here and elsewhere), any criticism or "judgement" is met with hostility and mockery.

Now, they (the Borg-like types that refer to themselves as "We") go into other forums (rFactor, rFactor2, even iRacing's) and bring their mockery and hostility to fans of other racing sims.

Coming here and say that pCARS "feels" better than rF2 or is better than rF2 is just part of that "strategy".

So its a conspiricy?

There are "fanboys",(for lack of a better word), of almost every sim/game ever made, including rFactor2. I doubt that they are orginizing a conspiricy to damage other sims. They are just vocal, and maybe don't know when to shut up.

I think your average sim racer would like to see pCars, rFactor2, iRacing, Netkar, or any other sim, succeed. The further these companies push the "realism" envelope, the better it is for us all. I suspect the majority of sim racers don't post because they don't want to get drawn into these stupid, pointless arguments. Its funny how badly peoples feelings get hurt, when others don't share their opinion. This seems to be especially true when it comes to how real, or not, a sims physics are.

[Chronus]

Not a conspiracy.

Simple fact. Maybe others don't see it that way, couldn't care less.

As for realism and physics...

90% or more of those complaining or commenting about the realism of some other simulation are not knowledgeable enough to do it. Worst then that, they aren't even willing to learn how to read graphs, let alone take the time to sift through heaps of telemetry readouts or books/papers on the subject. They can post, however, even if only to stir the pot.

[brabham67]

Originally Posted by Chronus

90% or more of those complaining or commenting about the realism of some other simulation are not knowledgeable enough to do it. Worst then that, they aren't even willing to learn how to read graphs, let alone take the time to sift through heaps of telemetry readouts or books/papers on the subject. They can post, however, even if only to stir the pot.

Right...

I don't have your fancy book learnin. And to tell the truth, your charts and readouts, both frighten and confuse me. So does this mean my opinion really doesn't matter. And since I don't know enough to speak intelligently, then my posts must only be to "stir the pot?"

Come on man, you just slapped the faces of 90% of the active NG membership.

Nice work

[DurgeDriven]

Who gives a rats bum, Jim Clark never needed any of it, I lap for fun not study.

pCARS I am 2nd on the only leaderboard I have done with plastic pedals and wheel . :p
( ......stuff must be at least a few CSR elite behind me ...... :p )
rFactor2 I can lap fine while still learning new wheel.
GPL I have negative rank
GTL / GTR / rfactor no problems

Never read a sentence on setups ever. ....BORING !

You should be a real race driver if you worry this much. lol

[mrpowcz]

I never bothered with telemetry either, it's not fun for me and don't think it makes you automatically more knowledgeable. After all the time you spend looking on graphs could be spent by driving more lol. I think what counts is total time spent playing sims.

As for community of pCars, I can't help but think its slightly different from all other sim communities. Its creators want to make it idol and don't take critic well, kinda like Jobs managed to make Apple almost a religion.

Whereas rF2 creators don't push anything, they don't convince anyone, like it or not its not our problem, but if you politely criticize something we might think about it.

The name "Community assisted" would better suit rF2 heh.

[Chronus]

You miss the point, m8.

Anyway, just because you never bothered with it doesn't mean you can be STILL be knowledgeable without understanding graphs/telemetry/physics.

That's where the confusion stems from: people don't bother learning (for whatever reason) and yet criticize those that do bother.

[Fortunately, the vast majority of simracers understand this.]

As for my time and that of others who actually enjoy modding (sounds, graphics, tracks) and the physics of racing, well, leave that to us and enjoy whatever you want to enjoy.

That aside...

You are right about pCARS.

Look at threads here and at WMD - nothing but mockery and contempt towards criticism (even by those that bother to explain things in great detail). While I hope and believe Ian Bell is much better than that (and can't probably control the hordes of extremists), it is also easy to see that pCARS "loyalists" react that way on account of fear and frustration. What was promised and what is actually happening are entirely different things. I don't see it as a Steve Jobs-like situation where people have to worship it/him - more like a bunch of people who feverishly want to see something that really is not there. The funny thing is their hopes/anger/mockery are worth absolutely NILL as pCARS is, as investors claim, set to make millions in the console gaming arena - PC simracers are not important enough to them.

But enough of pCARS.

rF2 seems to be coming quite well and will surely be a good, solid product.

EDIT:

really, enough of pCARS. There's much we can talk about rF2, ISI, isiMotor2, isiMotor2.5, quirks you guys are beginning to notice, potential, hidden gems (), etc. Much to discuss without looking to any other sim.

Posted By Tim Wheatley
10-25-2011

rF2 wasn't a throwaway of most previous tech like it largely was between 1.0 and 2.0. The engine isn't the physics, it isn't the sound, the graphics, it's what those things plugin to. You don't change that very much when you don't need to.

rF2 is here to stay. That's what matters.

[edubz123]

I notice that this "pCARS vs. rF2" thread was started by a non-"loyalist".

I agree, let's not discuss pCARS in the rF2 forum anymore please.

[Chronus]

Didn't expect to see you posting here eduzbz. My impression was that rF2 wasn't for you. Maybe I'm thinking of somebody else...

It's great you want to discuss rF2. It will grow on you for sure, with a plus, this community is rather open to discussing isiMotor2.5 or any other rF2 matter.

[gears]

Originally Posted by edubz123

I notice that this "pCARS vs. rF2" thread was started by a non-"loyalist".

"non loyalist"... WTF?

I paid my money and joined day one just like you. I've been a member for 6 months just like you.

Don't give me this non-loyalist crap.

rF2 gets ripped for poor graphics so I linked an article that give rF2 graphics some love - shows it has potential.

I also linked it because it's full of pics by Scorz (big props to him)

So don't come in my thread trolling and calling me names.

[edubz123]

honestly, I haven't tried rF2 so I don't have any opinion on it. Maybe in the future, but right now pCARS is keeping me busy. All I can say about rF2 is that (like pCARS) it is not finished.

gears: I was recycling the vocabulary introduce above by Chronus, it was a grammatical exercise to show the futility in using terms like "loyalist" (doesn't feel good huh?). You simply ended up part of the exercise, I didn't intend to take a stab at you, so apologies. Although I suspect you wouldn't consider yourself a pCARS/SMS-"loyalist", would you? (You don't have to answer the question, it's a bit rhetorical.)

[zeymatis]

The first time i drove GTR2 without the aids i spent more time in the gravel than on the track .Gtr2 and RF are very similar in the way the game gives you the Sim experience . When you brake into the hairpin at hockenheim or turn one at Monza you really have to think about what you are doing .. As good as cars is , i feel that the whole sim experience is very sanitized in comparison ..RF2 on the other hand is never going to compete in GFX department but will wipe the floor with Pcars in longevity ( as will GTR3) For seat of your pants sim racing .

Want some fun afternoon racing ? , get pcars , Want to join a league and immerse your self ? get RF2, GTR3

[Kazumi]

Originally Posted by DurgeDriven

Who gives a rats bum, Jim Clark never needed any of it, I lap for fun not study.

pCARS I am 2nd on the only leaderboard I have done with plastic pedals and wheel . :p
( ......stuff must be at least a few CSR elite behind me ...... :p )
rFactor2 I can lap fine while still learning new wheel.
GPL I have negative rank
GTL / GTR / rfactor no problems

Never read a sentence on setups ever. ....BORING !

You should be a real race driver if you worry this much. lol

Originally Posted by mrpowcz

I never bothered with telemetry either, it's not fun for me and don't think it makes you automatically more knowledgeable. After all the time you spend looking on graphs could be spent by driving more lol. I think what counts is total time spent playing sims.

Driving is just another way to study a cars' behaviour